Poll: Sexy convention costumes - okay to stare?

sageoftruth

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BathorysGraveland2 said:
Depends what you mean by staring, really. Getting right up in their face and ogling them up and down is not in any way appropriate, but keeping your distance and checking 'em out discreetly, eh, I don't see anything wrong with that really. To me, it's on the same level of checking out those pictures lots of girls post onto Facebook (you know what I'm talking about), as long as you keep it to yourself, there really is no issue.
Every time I read your posts, I hear them in Geralt's voice. I've been playing too much Witcher.

Anyway, sounds about right to me. It's like a dance of etiquette. After all, the thing that truly makes staring wrong in the first place is the discomfort it causes to the person being stared at. Thanks for kicking that one off. I wasn't entirely certain how to start my comment.
 

Colour Scientist

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Jul 15, 2009
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Candidus said:
If someone has their boobs or backside out and you want to look at them, look at them. Look for as long as you want. I do.

In the common space outside of our homes, none of us has any right to control who looks at us or how they look at us. The only way we can influence those things is by wearing more, wearing less, or wearing something unusual.

As for whether it's rude or not, I don't pay that shit any mind. In a hundred years, nobody is going to remember that I stared a long time at your bethonged behind. That, and what happens to my reputation among people I don't know just doesn't matter to me.

That's it.
Doesn't matter if you make another person feel uncomfortable by staring that them?

Super duper.
 

Ghostface2206

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When a woman walks through a room packed full of people whilst scantily-clad, she is going to turn some heads, that's just the simple truth. Not trying to sound sexist if anyone feels that way.
 

DefunctTheory

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Candidus said:
If someone has their boobs or backside out and you want to look at them, look at them. Look for as long as you want. I do.

In the common space outside of our homes, none of us has any right to control who looks at us or how they look at us. The only way we can influence those things is by wearing more, wearing less, or wearing something unusual.

As for whether it's rude or not, I don't pay that shit any mind. In a hundred years, nobody is going to remember that I stared a long time at your bethonged behind. That, and what happens to my reputation among people I don't know just doesn't matter to me.

That's it.
In 100 years, no one is going to remember how brutalized your balls were when you stare at the wrong woman for too long.

Also, I have a hard time believing that all the people you know would still have a high opinion of you if they knew you were eye banging every woman who had the bad sense to be a bit sexy around you. Unless all your friends are huge pervs, I guess.
 

Supdupadog

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As a general rule, I find stopping and staring and panting like a dog at someone/something to be the inappropriate action in most situations.

Except maybe at a cup of water after a 50 mile trek through the Sahara.
 

Candidus

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AccursedTheory said:
In 100 years, no one is going to remember how brutalized your balls were when you stare at the wrong woman for too long.

Also, I have a hard time believing that all the people you know would still have a high opinion of you if they knew you were eye banging every woman who had the bad sense to be a bit sexy around you. Unless all your friends are huge pervs, I guess.
A fight is fine by me. I fancy my chances most of the time.

Eye-banging? Looking is looking. Following with the eyes, with a straight face or a raised brow. You can go over the top calling it "SIGHT RAPE, AAAAH!!!" if you like, but I don't have an answer for hysteria like that.
 
Sep 13, 2009
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Jacco said:
This is one thing that really just irks me. Girls expect guys to approach them for any kind of interaction. But if that guy doesn't meet their standards, it is creepy. Same thing applies here. Not one of those women would have a goddamn problem if Brad Pitt was staring at them creepily. But apparently it is a issue when it is an average or below average looking "geek" guy.
I seriously don't get this mentality. I'm going to stare at you because I think you're hot but if you don't want me staring because you don't think I'm hot then you're a shallow *****.

Huh... makes sense.

I'll reiterate something I said earlier, do you expect people to leer at all others equally or to favor the ones they think are hot?

Not to mention that I know more women than not who find strangers staring at them creepy regardless of how attractive they look. They might be less creeped out if the guy is attractive, but it is still a shot against the guy. You're just more likely to be inviting of sexual attention from someone who you are attracted to than not.

The issue isn't that guys are giving women sexual attention, it's when they're giving them unwanted sexual attention that it's a problem. And as a general rule you should back off when you realize that this is the case instead of continuing to stare on an ironic crusade to fight against "shallowness"
 

lacktheknack

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Jan 19, 2009
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tehroc said:
If a woman in a sexy costume complains about staring, keep in mind the only thing they are complaining about is you. Dudes they deem hot can stare all they want.
W... wat?

tfw Showgirls is more accurate about what women typically want in a specific situation than someone in real life

(To anyone wondering, I'm referring to the moment where one of the characters is totally hot for a dude and is fully willing to bone him... and then he manages to sexually assault her anyways. Oh, but that's impossible, because she thought he was hot up to the moment of the assault!)

OT: I don't go to cons to ogle, I go there to geek out. "Geeking out" means freaking out about epic costumes, in this case, rather than "lolboobs". Maybe I'm weird.
 

lacktheknack

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Schadrach said:
Vault101 said:
Eddie the head said:
Why is this even a question? We all know the worst thing you can do to a woman that is, dressed up in an attractive manner, posing in an attractive way, and is herself attractive, is to call her attractive. And or look at her. What is this the 1950?
oh sure it sounds perfectly innocent when you say it like that

"I'm entitled to staring and oggling you because youre dressed like that" doesn't sound so nice...
As opposed to "I demand you avert your eyes when I am present, because I am entitled to control your field of view when I am in public."

It's not hard to make most things sound terribly entitled.

Personally, if you are in a public space, you have given up any right not to be looked at. Full stop, regardless of who you are or how you might be dressed. You also are not obligated to interact with anyone else in public in most ways or in most cases, nor are they in general obligated to interact with you.
Looking = ogling in much the same way that walking nearby = stalking.

...ie, they don't = at all.

No one without a restraining order can tell you to not walk nearby in the same direction as them. However, if you keep following them even as they try to get out of your way, then they have the right to tell you to shove off.

Similarly, glancing around won't raise the ire of anyone. Looking at someone until they feel uncomfortable, however, gives them the right to tell you to shove off.
 

JimB

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Vegosiux said:
If you run around in a getup that stands out, people will look. Some will look appreciatively, some will even approach you to compliment you on a job well done with the costume. Some are going to be more socially awkward and make it uncomfortable through their own social ineptitude/inexperience, and there's going to be that odd creep or two who only showed up specifically to leer at the cosplays.
And if you, Smooth Operator, or any of the posters I have been using Smooth Operator as a stand-in for had said a single word denouncing the bad behavior of the men in question, I wouldn't be feeling as uncomfortable as I do. As it is, all blame has been assigned to the women, saying they deserve it for their wardrobe choices, with the unspoken implication seeming to be that the men staring have less of a burden to stop being creepy than the women do to stop being attractive to creeps. It's very unsettling.

Smooth Operator said:
It's not actually a gender issue, if any man went and squeezed himself in some of the barely legal outfits ladies put on they would get just as many stares and creepy comments, probably more.
Ah. It a unisex issue that only affects one sex, sort of like how police profiling isn't a racial issue because they'd do it to white people too if we made ourselves look black or Hispanic.

Smooth Operator said:
Yes, it would be nice if people didn't judge, but our evolution isn't there yet, not by a long shot.
Placing a greater onus on the women than the troglodytes seems pretty fucked up to me.

Now, if you'll pardon me, I just read the third page of this thread and am so fucking depressed I'm probably going to go to bed. I don't want to seem like I'm trying to dissuade you from responding by trying to take my ball and go home, so please defend your positions all you like, but fair warning, I really don't know that I have the stomach to come back to this thread.
 

ForumSafari

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AccursedTheory said:
In 100 years, no one is going to remember how brutalized your balls were when you stare at the wrong woman for too long.
A move which somewhat assumes that he's not going to beat every tooth out of the woman who tries it, one of the only reasons that anyone would ever feel kicking someone in the testicles for staring at them was a proportionate and sane response.

Potentially life changing physical violence in response to unwanted interaction is generally wrong, it's the same reason I don't glass women in clubs that bang in to me and then push me like I banged in to them.
 

Vegosiux

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JimB said:
Smooth Operator said:
It's not actually a gender issue, if any man went and squeezed himself in some of the barely legal outfits ladies put on they would get just as many stares and creepy comments, probably more.
Ah. It a unisex issue that only affects one sex, sort of like how police profiling isn't a racial issue because they'd do it to white people too if we made ourselves look black or Hispanic.
Try showing up to a job interview in some fancy offices with tracksuit pants and a t-shirt or try putting on a thick fur coat when there's 30 degrees outside. Or reverse, try going shorts and t-shirt when it's 5 below zero. Then tell me how nobody looked at you, but everyone totally would if you were a woman.

If you stand out in a crowd, you're going to get looked at, no matter what you are. Playing that as a "gender issue" is just dumb.

JimB said:
And if you, Smooth Operator, or any of the posters I have been using Smooth Operator as a stand-in for had said a single word denouncing the bad behavior of the men in question, I wouldn't be feeling as uncomfortable as I do.
I prefer to do "denouncements" when whoever I'm denouncing is within earshot. You know, so they actually know I have a problem with how they are acting or have acted. I'll stretch it as far as warning people I actually know and care about how that particular individual might be a bit of an ass so they should keep their wits about. But in a situation completely unrelated to any specific person who has acted badly? Should I say that people shouldn't act in a bad manner? Should I also consistently point out that the sky is blue?

Basically, this is so obvious to me that I'm amazed when people look at me weird for not going out of my way to remark it.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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Seems a bit rich to me ...

Female game characters are the most sexually provocative images of females there is! Makes Barbie look well proportioned, not to mention the dental floss most of them wear, just look at Mad Moxxi ... fully clothed but MASSIVE boobs pushed up under her chin

So to then dress up as these people and then complain about being ogled at a socially inept convention, is taking the piss. The stereotype of a nerd is awkward around girls, so then you put a large concentration in a hall and add game characters that they have probably wrote fanfic about but now brought to life ... what do you expect to happen?

This is getting me dangerously close to my "don't talk about it or you will get 100 quotes about it" button so I will bow out. Just remember that they aren't trying to be creepy, they are just on unfamiliar ground.
 

And Man

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Vegosiux said:
JimB said:
Smooth Operator said:
It's not actually a gender issue, if any man went and squeezed himself in some of the barely legal outfits ladies put on they would get just as many stares and creepy comments, probably more.
Ah. It a unisex issue that only affects one sex, sort of like how police profiling isn't a racial issue because they'd do it to white people too if we made ourselves look black or Hispanic.
Try showing up to a job interview in some fancy offices with tracksuit pants and a t-shirt or try putting on a thick fur coat when there's 30 degrees outside. Or reverse, try going shorts and t-shirt when it's 5 below zero. Then tell me how nobody looked at you, but everyone totally would if you were a woman.

If you stand out in a crowd, you're going to get looked at, no matter what you are. Playing that as a "gender issue" is just dumb.
On one hand, I don't feel that those are good comparisons, and in a convention environment, the issue at hand is much more likely to happen to women than it is for men.

On the other hand, as a man that has done a shirtless cosplay, I know firsthand that harassment and unwanted attention at cons happens to both men and women.

Personally, I feel that if you're not ogling someone or blatantly staring so that it's obviously that you are, there's nothing with looking.
 

A Weakgeek

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Dont break no laws (No forced touching, straight up verbal abuse), stop when asked to. Really, going beyond this is just speculating what the other person might find uncomfortable, which you arent morally required to do.
 

And Man

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omega 616 said:
Seems a bit rich to me ...

Female game characters are the most sexually provocative images of females there is! Makes Barbie look well proportioned, not to mention the dental floss most of them wear, just look at Mad Moxxi ... fully clothed but MASSIVE boobs pushed up under her chin

So to then dress up as these people and then complain about being ogled at a socially inept convention, is taking the piss. The stereotype of a nerd is awkward around girls, so then you put a large concentration in a hall and add game characters that they have probably wrote fanfic about but now brought to life ... what do you expect to happen?

This is getting me dangerously close to my "don't talk about it or you will get 100 quotes about it" button so I will bow out. Just remember that they aren't trying to be creepy, they are just on unfamiliar ground.
Just wanna say that the stereotype of the average con-goer is way off base. Obviously there are some people that adhere to the stereotype, but the majority of attendees are just normal people. This just really irks me because stereotypes like this are why I used to be embarrassed about telling people that I go to conventions
 

Eddie the head

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Vault101 said:
Eddie the head said:
Why is this even a question? We all know the worst thing you can do to a woman that is, dressed up in an attractive manner, posing in an attractive way, and is herself attractive, is to call her attractive. And or look at her. What is this the 1950?
oh sure it sounds perfectly innocent when you say it like that

"I'm entitled to staring and oggling you because youre dressed like that" doesn't sound so nice...
The difference is mine makes no claim to knowledge of the intent of the observer. (outside the null) If you are claiming malicious intent you would need to prove it, I don't need to prove innocence.
 

michael87cn

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What the hell? It's rude to stare, period. Glance, in passing? Sure. FIne. Whatever. Don't gawk. Don't stare. They will fucking hate you. Do you want to be stared at? No? Of course not.

If you want to look at someone, you need to approach them and talk to them. Otherwise you're acting creepy.
 

Vault101

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Sep 26, 2010
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Eddie the head said:
The difference is mine makes no claim to knowledge of the intent of the observer. (outside the null) If you are claiming malicious intent you would need to prove it, I don't need to prove innocence.
intent doesn't matter

its rude to stare

that does't mean you can't look at the person in question, but looking at them like your trying to set them on fire with your imaginary lazer eyes is not ok, its basic social rules...
omega 616 said:
?

. Just remember that they aren't trying to be creepy, they are just on unfamiliar ground.
you know what? I don't give a fuck, unless their on the spectrum if they can't figure out how to function in polite society then thats their problem

Schadrach said:
Amusingly if I recall you were one of those folks who feels that eavesdropping on a private conversation, then publicizing it in an attempt to get the persons in said conversation punished was a reasonable and justifiable situation (you know, donglegate). Which would make eavesdropping to call for punishment should you be offended what others are saying good, but looking at someone on display in a public place because, well, you like looking at them a problem?
I don't remember saying that I thourght the lady in the Dongle Fiasco was totaly justified...I'm not sure she was...given I also think Dongle is just a funny word (and thats not even genital related)

Jacco said:
The issue is exactly that guys are giving girls sexual attention. How is the guy to know whether it is wanted or not?
heres a good rule of thumb

its not

ever

just don't

don't grope them, don't stare at their boobs, don't ask inapropriate things