Poll: Should Link be female in the next Lengend Of Zelda

XSin

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Sure, the question is tho, do you make Zelda Male or leave her female? :)
 

Magic Muffin Man

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No, because Zelda's story has always been a riff on old adventure stories and fairy tales where the adventurer was a young man going through a hero's journey. Besides, you've got a female character in Zelda already, why not give her a game to adventure in?
 

JimB

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Sorry, Argent Cross, I didn't mean to ignore you. I think I missed you quoting me because my eye has become accustomed to seeing my posts cut up into individual quoted sentences.

Agent Cross said:
The simple issue is, this is a 25 year old franchise. So when the game says, "Our legendary hero appears..." one would think Link. You might not like it, I might not, but that's how it is.
I...don't really get your point here. Is it that I shouldn't want, ask for, or advocate for anything different, because I need to accept how things are?

Agent Cross said:
So are simply wishing to erase an established character or would you rather introduce a new female lead?
I think some words got left out of your sentence, so I might not be answering the question you intended. If not, let me know and I'll try again.

If you're asking if I want to replace Link with another, female character, then I don't think that's the right question. I don't really think Link is a character, because to my mind, a character is someone with a history and a personality and goals. Lately they've been working on giving him a history, and I guess you could say he has goals because video games are goal-oriented entertainment, but he's never had a personality. As such, I think of him more as an avatar than a character; a blank slate to project whatever personality I want onto.

A female Link would be interesting to me because she's more fun to project onto. Her role in the story would be one hundred percent identical to male Link's--hero beats up monsters, gets magic sword, becomes avatar of god, beats up wizard and saves princess upon whom wizard is creepily fixated--and I think that would provoke some interesting dialogue. Like, Stephen King once invited readers to write and send him stories about a domestic abuse victim whose partner just escaped from prison, but to make the man the victim; and I found that fascinating for the same reasons I like the idea of female Link: It challenges me to look at the world carefully and honestly, setting aside the comfortable lies of expected gender roles.

Having Zelda save male Link could serve the same purpose, I suppose, but I'm less interested in that because of the Super Princess Peach thing I referenced earlier, because of the blaster thing I mentioned earlier, and also because Princess Zelda bugs me. Have you ever seen the Nostalgia Critic talk about Dumbasses in Distress? If you have, that would save me a lot of typing. If not, I'll get to it tomorrow.
 

Moonlight Butterfly

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Vault Citizen said:
If Samus was a guy I like to imagine he'd look like Angel out of X-Men....yes please.

:3

It's pretty funny how many people are annoyed about this when the matter of female gamers comes up and it's always the jibes about 'Zelda T-Shirts' and 'All they play is Zelda.'

If it's so abhorrent and girly to your hardcore gaming ways what the hell is the issue.

I'd rather Zelda had her own game but what the hell.
 

SinisterGehe

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Why change something that isn't broken?
If Link would be a female link in next game, it wouldn't be "The Link" it would be a female character named Link. The issue here is concept of words - the popular culture has grown in to recognize Link as "male" or I'd say "a boy" since he doesn't seem ever to look old enough to be a man. (IMO!)
And due to concepts related to certain names and words - I am going to say "no to female link"

BUT!!! Before you come after me with pitchforks and torches let me redeem myself.

If Nint?ndo would go and reboot the series and start a new saga (or continuity - or what the hell do you dare to call who Zelda series) and then change Link in to a female character. I would be for it. long as She isn't designed with fan service and weakness in mind. (Which knowing Nint?ndo - it will)
 

Treblaine

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Darkbladex96 said:
There are ways to mess up a female link. First and foremost would be making the exact same game and forcing Link to be female. A gender choice option should be used in that scenario.

But if Link it to be female, it should be at the reinvention the series, not because link is a female(well actually because of this), but because it would seem like a new chance to actually make link a character.
Why is that so often said, but never:

First and foremost would be making the exact same game and forcing Link to be MALE. A gender choice option should be used in that scenario.
See how reversing the gender illustrates the false sense of entitlement? That they are entitled to forcing players to use a male protagonsit but cannot force players to play as a female.

Now you're not JUST saying "there should be a gender option", you're saying this PRECISELY because there in a female lead that you don't have to.

Statements like these do nothing but reinforce female protagonists as being so unacceptable as the player MUST have the choice to avoid playing as one. If it's a female protagonist there MUST be choice to play a male, but if male, the implicit statement is there is no need for any choice.


Bruenin said:
JimB said:
I don't have a complaint really :p I just don't think they should make Link female, it'd be a bit of a hassle story telling wise because they have an audience that expects a male character and they'd have to deal with that and it'd just be easier to star Zelda.

You asked about the Goddess thing so i'm just trying to find a way to explain my reasoning better
The audience should know that each new Link is a TOTALLY NEW INDIVIDUAL! Chosen not because he is any reincarnation or reboot of a single individual, but because that thye are simply a Hylian has the courage to be a hero of Hyrule.

Half of Hylians are female.

The the variations in the appearance of the different heroes of Link are about as broad as the differences of the average Hylian, who (in reflection of the Medieval societies they are based on) are rather homogenous in appearance compared with - say - population of USA which is hugely varied from African Americans, people who emigrated from Nordic countries, Chinese, Japanese, native ethnic groups etc. Fits with how many of the Links look different, yet on stat sheet not completely different, not like they are closely related in one family, but just all from one medieval population.

What Link is not: one person who "just so happens" to be male, so must always be male to avoid retcon.

What Link is: a singular representation of the Hylian people for each generations that needs one, one with courage to become the Hero of Hyrule.

Now if it's saying a female can never rise to that challenge, that's simply sexism.

I mean it's not like it's a dead-lifting weight competition that a man would have an edge over, these are adventures 9-10 year old boys go on, a girl can as well.

This is basic aspects of the plot of Zelda games, how so many arguments can be made that DEPEND on ignoring this suggest a such a complete disinterest in Zelda how can your opinions on the characters be relevant to the actual fans? You're entitled to your opinion, but it's not entitled to any consideration, that's something you have to earn.
 

Bruenin

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Treblaine said:
The audience should know that each new Link is a TOTALLY NEW INDIVIDUAL! Chosen not because he is any reincarnation or reboot of a single individual, but because that they are simply a Hylian has the courage to be a hero of Hyrule.
I'm pretty sure the main three characters: Ganon, Link, and Zelda are all repeatedly reincarnated... I know Ganon and Zelda are at the very least.

spoilers I guess

Ganon is the reincarnation of Demise, Zelda is the reincarnation of the original Goddess Hylia, and Link was a childhood friend of Zelda's who became the hero of time. Three people whose struggle is never ending, passed on from generation to generation, it'd kind of make sense that each time they came about they'd be connected :/ more so than just meeting up and being courageous but I guess you can argue against that.

end of spoilers

And it has nothing to do with sexism, it's not that I don't think a girl can do it, it's I don't think they should just add it in for no reason. The Legend of Zelda just doesn't seem like the type of game to have customization like that... It'd be like adding a bunch of appearance sliders, it just seems pointless.

If I thought women couldn't do anything why would I suggest Zelda be the heroine? Last time I checked she was a women :/
 

Treblaine

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SinisterGehe said:
If Link would be a female link in next game, it wouldn't be "The Link" it would be a female character named Link.
That has ALWAYS been the case.

There hasn't been "The Link" for 20 years, most games he has been a completely new individual.

"it wouldn't be 'The Link' it would be a female character named Link."

Yes, in Wind Waker, the protagonist was NOT "The Link" it WAS a female character named Link.

So either you are ignorant of the series which shows how relevant your opinion is, or you simply categorically oppose a female hero because she is female. That's nothing but sexism.

"If Nint?ndo would go and reboot the series and start a new saga"

They don't "reboot" so much as go to a time period HUNDREDS if not THOUSANDS of year separate from the previous Zelda game with a completely unrelated individual, who is prompted to adopt the name "Link".

Magic Muffin Man said:
No, because Zelda's story has always been a riff on old adventure stories and fairy tales where the adventurer was a young man going through a hero's journey. Besides, you've got a female character in Zelda already, why not give her a game to adventure in?
Because she's royalty, it's hardly fitting of the theme that anyone may have the courage in their heart to vanquish evil if it "just to happens" to be in the person who's lived a pampered life of privilege.

Just choosing the nearest main character that's an established female isn't good enough. Do you even understand the theme of the TriForce? Power, Wisdom and Courage for Ganondorf, Zelda and Link respectively (with some variation).

But this is where the NARRATIVE ties in with gameplay, the playable character will be the courageous one as he's actually controlled by someone playing a video game who knows they have infinite respawns, instant courage, but the conceit is the in game character does fear death but overcomes it. Now the role of "Wisdom" is hard to bestow on the player... as they don't know anything! It has to be an NPC. It fits having wisdom be as the ally, as gameplay design can end up a mess if you are trying to match wits, and by having an ally in wisdom they will be a vital guide to the world.

Power, well best have that as the "big boss" character like Ganondorf, it's good to have a great opponent who can take a lot of damage and deal out much more than you. So it depends on your skill to defeat the boss in dodging attacks and finding their weak-spot, not just being inherently stronger. Another theme is to have the wisdom-character advise the protagonist (and the player) on where the weak spot is and what they smut do to avoid attack.

The thing about the protagonist of a Zelda game starting off as a commoner is they are an outsider while still being part of the group. See growing up on a farm or a forest community, then once leaving they are in the same position the player is unfamiliar with the world, it fits to have explanations for things. Why would a princess ask questions about the basic functioning of her own kingdom? Also there is the sense of individuality, that you're on your own and anyone who helps you you have to earn their help. Princesses naturally have adoration and security, it doesn't fit with gameplay for Princess Zelda to be a good lead.

If Zelda was the protagonist of a Legend of Zelda game, she couldn't be a princess or of high-rank (like ship captain) and she couldn't have the attribute of "wisdom", which is MOST of what is non-superficial about Zelda. It doesn't matter if she is a fighting princess, the problem is she is in too hierarchial a position for good gameplay-narrative. This is nothing to do with her being a girl, it has everything to do with her status. It would apply just as much to a Prince Zeldor. And it would have to be Zeldor as Zelda is explicitly a female name. "Link" however is like Alex, it's not got any inherent gender connotations and I don't think this is entirely accidental.

Frankly it's a lot easier to have the young commoner of Hyrule - who will be it's hero - happens to be a girl, than contrive a circumstance where Zelda is a good lead role simply because she's already established as a female role.

It might work with a kind of "Princess and the Pauper" switch of doppelgänger, where Zelda is able to go on an adventure posing as a commoner, but Legend of Zelda games start off in a lowly village and build up to visiting a great unfamiliar castle for a reason.
 

Treblaine

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Bruenin said:
Treblaine said:
The audience should know that each new Link is a TOTALLY NEW INDIVIDUAL! Chosen not because he is any reincarnation or reboot of a single individual, but because that they are simply a Hylian has the courage to be a hero of Hyrule.
I'm pretty sure the main three characters: Ganon, Link, and Zelda are all repeatedly reincarnated... I know Ganon and Zelda are at the very least.

spoilers I guess

Ganon is the reincarnation of Demise, Zelda is the reincarnation of the original Goddess Hylia, and Link was a childhood friend of Zelda's who became the hero of time. Three people whose struggle is never ending, passed on from generation to generation, it'd kind of make sense that each time they came about they'd be connected :/ more so than just meeting up and being courageous but I guess you can argue against that.

end of spoilers

And it has nothing to do with sexism, it's not that I don't think a girl can do it, it's I don't think they should just add it in for no reason. The Legend of Zelda just doesn't seem like the type of game to have customization like that... It'd be like adding a bunch of appearance sliders, it just seems pointless.

If I thought women couldn't do anything why would I suggest Zelda be the heroine? Last time I checked she was a women :/
Ganon(dorf) seems to be not so much reincarnated between each game, he seem to be immortal or some ability to resurrect himself. Even if those two originally came from gods, that's NOT THE CASE WITH LINK! The hero protagonist known as "Link" is just a courageous commoner.

"Link was a childhood friend of Zelda"

Depends on which game, other games Link has no recollection of Zelda at all nor any inherent affinity. Clearly many other time Link is a different individual. Ganon(dorf) however does have recollection of at least what happens in previous Zelda games, but his full "life cycle" is never shown, he is vanquished and then somehow he returns in one form or another. We see where link is as a child with allusions he was born and raised there or how else he got there.

Link's role is never tied down to one individual who must be of one gender because that is one individual.

"it's I don't think they should just add it in for no reason"

Well I'll be glad to inform you (for the dozenth time) there IS a reason, to clear up the *apparently* sexist trend of only males being chosen as Heroes of Hyrule. It simply DOES NOT FIT to say Link is always the exact same individual reincarnated so must be the same gender, everything else varies APART FROM GENDER! So far.

You need a reason for why there SHOULDN'T be a girl Link!

Never mind about customisation sliders, totally irrelvant.

Nintendo just releases a game and the character you control is a young elf with long blond hair, wearing a green tunic who likes to smash people pots but OH GOD NO IT'S A GIRL!!! Oh wait, actually this is totally freaking expected, we've seen of the various Link roles vary in every other way you could expect of a Hyrule citizen, in every way except gender.

WTF would you do. Would that ruin the game for you? Would you take it out and snap the disc in half and start petitions because it doesn't force everyone to play as a boy? But does the unforgivable thing of forcing you to play as a girl.
 

Bruenin

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Treblaine said:
You really like going on about sexism, turn Mario into a woman, Peach into a man, Samus into a man, Link into a girl, Megaman into Megagirl.

It doesn't really matter, I just think it's pointless, if you want a female character there is much better options, but apparently you can't have trends without them being judgmental? What if there was never a chance for a female hero? or What if there was other factors forcing the hero to be male, I don't see how having a male hero would suddenly it a sexist trend... it's not implying anything, that's the way they originally had it and they just kept it that way.

Crying sexism just because they don't mix up genders every now and then seems a bit of an over reaction. Maybe if the game made all women out to be weak and useless and always needed help from male saviors... but in recent games Zelda even helps you fight Ganon, she normally only gets captured because she was ambushed, not because she lost on fair ground, not because she couldn't take care of herself.

ex... She evaded Ganon for 7 years, and only got captured when she let her guard down to talk to Link in Ocarina of time.

I just don't see how there is this big sexist trend that must absolutely be destroyed.

And captcha is telling me to smell that... I have no clue what the means, captcha used to be eerily relevant ;-; what happened
 

Treblaine

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Bruenin said:
Treblaine said:
You really like going on about sexism, turn Mario into a woman, Peach into a man, Samus into a man, Link into a girl, Megaman into Megagirl.

It doesn't really matter, I just think it's pointless, if you want a female character there is much better options, but apparently you can't have trends without them being judgmental? What if there was never a chance for a female hero? or What if there was other factors forcing the hero to be male, I don't see how having a male hero would suddenly it a sexist trend... it's not implying anything, that's the way they originally had it and they just kept it that way.

Crying sexism just because they don't mix up genders every now and then seems a bit of an over reaction. Maybe if the game made all women out to be weak and useless and always needed help from male saviors... but in recent games Zelda even helps you fight Ganon, she normally only gets captured because she was ambushed, not because she lost on fair ground, not because she couldn't take care of herself.

ex... She evaded Ganon for 7 years, and only got captured when she let her guard down to talk to Link in Ocarina of time.

I just don't see how there is this big sexist trend that must absolutely be destroyed.

You did not address a single one of my points from the post you quoted, you ignored ALL OF THEM, while just going off on another tangent based around thing I never said. Irrelevant speculation about a female Mario or male Samus. Still refering to Link as a singular character that would have to be changed. Saying there are better options to spite the only specific alternative you gave I showed the problems with and you ignored all the points I made on that. Speculation on unspecified unknown and unproven factors that somehow mandate a male protagonist that isn't sexist. Asserting "the way it's always been" to keep heroes male for no other reason. Fallacious reasoning that simply because LoZ isn't sexist with depiction of Zelda that's any kind of refutation of my arguments to do with the protagonist role.

"You really like going on about sexism, turn Mario into a woman, Peach into a man, Samus into a man, Link into a girl, Megaman into Megagirl."

Nope. I only go on about ZELDA. And I only go on about it because I know and care about it. I've not suggested any other female protagonist for any other Nintendo game. Please stay ON TOPIC, a female Mario is totally irrelevant to Zelda, even if it is another Nintendo game.

"Link into a girl"

Still talking as if Link is one individual that has to be changed "into" a girl rather than every other Zelda game as a completely new protagonist who is only conventionally refereed to as Link.

"if you want a female character there is much better options"

You gave only one that I totally refuted, and you ignored that part only to say the same thing only so much vaguer it's impossible to refute but also impossible to consider.

What if there was other factors forcing the hero to be male

Baseless speculation. You give no examples.

"I don't see how having a male hero would suddenly it a sexist trend"

Stating "I don't see how" is blatantly "this is what I claim you are saying".
I never said it would be sudden, I said it's been a gradual trend that indicated sexism.

"that's the way they originally had it"

The original Zelda is VERY different from the latter ones. Things change. The protagonist being male is not an essential aspect of what makes a Zelda game.

"Crying sexism just because they don't mix up genders every now and then"

It's more than that and you know it. You are simply ignoring and misrepresenting my argument. It's not "just because" I never said it was "just" that. You know full well and you are ignoring my argument that refers to the Hero Prophecy, and misrepresenting my argument as something else that falls flat. That's wrong.

"in recent games Zelda even helps"

Females can do more than help the male-lead. I know you are not explicitly saying that they should be limited to helper roles, but you arguing against a female protagonist while emphasising helper-roles of females, which has implications intended or not.

And please, STOP USING THE:

"I just don't see how..."

especially when it precedes a statement that is supposed to apply to what I've said but TOTALLY MISREPRESENTS what I said. It's fallacious.

To avoid such things in future, please quote or otherwise directly reference the relevant part of my comment, and have a specific criticism not a general "I don't see how" again. As I have done.
 

Vykrel

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no... that's like asking if Mario should be female in the next game.

now, if you were to ask if a Legend of Zelda game had a female player character who isnt Link, then that would be fine.

theres just no sense in just randomly giving established characters gender reassignment surgeries.
 

rosac

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JediMB said:
I could go with a female Link, or simply putting Zelda in the main protagonist role for a while.

I've been advocating a "Zelda Mode" (similar to Castlevania's "Belmont Mode") as a first step towards that for ages. More of a focus on magic, what with her connection to the Triforce of Wisdom.
Not to mention that she actually has a sword in twilight princess. Maybe a focus on magic with the sword as a last resort/method of killing certain enemies? Also, she wield the light arrows in a lot of games.

OT: I don't see what it would achieve. Legend of zelda has a lot of important female characters anyway, and it just feels kinda... wrong to mess about with such a well established character for no real reason, The fact that link is female either wouldn't be brought up, or if it was it would probably end up being in a derogatory sense (A girl wields the master sword? That's impossible!" etc.)

EDIT:
Treblaine said:
Woah, easy there. It's just an opinion. Bear in mind that LoZ's origin stories are rather messy. I'm not sure anyone knows what's going on for sure.
 

Treblaine

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rosac said:
EDIT:
Treblaine said:
Woah, easy there. It's just an opinion. Bear in mind that LoZ's origin stories are rather messy. I'm not sure anyone knows what's going on for sure.
Many later games have prophetic characters recount prior events with unequivocal clarity.

And I'm fed up of most of the posts on this thread asserting such obvious falsehoods about the Zelda series that indicate these people who are saying how Zelda games should be have hardly played any of them.

things like:

"if a Legend of Zelda game had a female player character who isnt Link"

The player character in a LoZ game would de-facto actually be Link. The player enters whatever name they like the main character to be, it's just hinted you should choose Link, it's as if you chose to adopt the name.

"theres just no sense in just randomly giving established characters gender reassignment surgeries."

Each new game has a NEW INDIVIDUAL take up the role of Link!

no one character would have to be retconned. In the same canon without any retcons, the Link of Ocarina of Time will always be a male, jsut because it in another time a girl takes up the role of Link as hero of Hyrule.

"to mess about with such a well established character"

You haven't played many Zelda games have you? Or if you did you didn't pay attention, forgot, or didn't come close to finishing many of them.

Link is not a single well established character.

It is a common name user to refer to the MANY DIFFERENT HERO PROTAGONISTS who go adventuring in Hyrule.

If you don't know, or don't care about that, then you have no horse in this race. You simply have not played the Zelda games or nothing that happened in them has stuck with you.

You ever get mad when conservatives who have never played a game go on Fox News and say how these games should be? Ever think they should shut up about how things should be for something they don't even play of watch? Well that's how I feel about all these people who obviously don't know or care anything about Zelda games, just like the IDEA that a game is so famous and popular with a male protagonist that it should always have a male protagonist.

It's like people who think Snake in MGS3 is the same character as in MGS2. They are not.
 

F'Angus

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Personally I think no, we shouldn't be trying to create strong female characters out of existing strong-male characters, instead we should look to create original female figures who are successful in their own right.

This is also the reasong I object to the idea of a female Doctor in Dr Who, or a female James Bond.
 

Caffeine_Bombed

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The idea of an actual 'Zelda' game or being able to control Zelda AND Link in a game is fair play.
But making Link female? No. The way I see it, the only thing that would do is create controversy for the sake of it. Nobody's rallying against Nintendo to make Zelda games less sexist (not that I've seen anyway).
 

Frozengale

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I can get behind the idea of playing Zelda as the main character. But making Link a girl kind of defeats the cyclical nature of the story. The point is supposed to be that each iteration of Link and Zelda are connected to the other iterations be that spiritually, or what not. Making Link a girl wouldn't prove anything and would just screw with the cyclical themes of the game.

This wouldn't be progressive, this wouldn't be interesting, this would just be messing with established characters because "Why not!?" which is the worst reason to do anything.
 

Mr Binary

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[Kira Must Die said:
]I'd actually liked to see a Zelda game with Zelda as the main character. She has proven herself to be a capable fighter in several of the games, at least more so than someone like Princess Peach. Instead of items she could gain different spells to get around dungeons and solve puzzles. Just as Link has to face several trials to prove that he's a true hero, She should also be facing several trials to prove herself as well, or perhaps a more traditional setting where Link's the one in trouble and Zelda has to save him instead. I think this would be more of a breath of fresh air than just simply genderbending Link.
Zelda's Quest is a Zelda game with her as the protagonist. It may have been bad, but it is still what you're technically asking for.
 

Raika

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Nah. Those games don't really have a plot as it is, and the fan base goes completely apeshit any time Nintendo threatens to mess with the formula at all. Let them just keep remaking the same game they've been remaking since 1998. Everyone knows how opposed to change that fan base is.