Poll: Should PC joypad users be able to use auto-aim in on-line FPS games?

[ph0b0s123]

Having played both PC and Console FPS games, I can't myself figure out why one would chose to use a joystick on a PC over a mouse. However, I can't come up with a good reason NOT to offer users of a joystick the option of being somewhat competitive vs. players who use mice to aim. The problem I have with your "use inferior controls, get inferior results" argument is that it's needless. We have the code in place to increase the effectiveness of joystick controls, mice are still superior, and so long as you give it a toggle on/off option, mice players aren't effected. Essentially, if we have the capability to fix it, why not fix it?

To me it's win/win. Joystick players can use their preferred method of control on a PC without suffering as much from the detrimental effect of using a joystick to aim. Mouse users still maintain a superior position over Joystick users, but now have the added benefit of having a slightly more challenging experience vs. joystick users.

The problem is: What if the joypad users start winning? their skill/controls are being propped up aim assistance... could you take the result seriously if a player using a controller and aim assistance won a competition knocking out M+kb players?

Its like the runners in the paralympics who use blades... should they be allowed to compete in the ordinary olympics? what if they win? will the other runners then chop their feet of and replace them with blades to be competitive?

Bottom line, you cant have assisted players competing with unassisted players.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/athletics/6292786.stm

I could see and understand that within a competitive environment, like MLG, although I don't know any MLG PC gamers who would use joysticks. But for just casual online play, it doesn't really make a whole lot of sense to me to disallow the option. I can't conceive of a joystick player receiving SO much aim assistance from a game that he/she could CONSISTENTLY beat a player of equal skill using a mouse. Because really, that's the concern, that all things being equal, aim assist on a joystick would tip the scales too often to be explained by random chance, and I just don't think that's the case.

Tangentially: If a fully-abled athelete can't beat a dude with PROSTHETIC legs in a race, then you just need to man the hell up and grow a pair. Don't come around to me complaining about him not producing lactic acid and bull like that. He's not the 6 Million Dollar Man.

That's why you have a normal and Special Olympics rather then getting normal and special Olympians to compete against each other.

But to main the point of your post, are you saying that only in MLG can competitions be fair and that outside of the MLG we have to live with it not being fair. Oh and I don't most consider their on-line play on the PC to be 'casual'.....

 

[Elamdri]

That's why you have a normal and Special Olympics rather then getting normal and special Olympians to compete against each other.

I guess, although I think the argument is more for keeping the fully-abled from beating the disabled. When you start complaining that the dude with no legs is beating you in a race, you start to loose credibility with me in my books. Perhaps if he had like completely ROBOT legs that allowed him to run like 70 miles per hour, you would have a legit argument. But that's just me, and how I see it; If you can't own up and let someone who's had to suffer like that have a day in the sun, you're not a man. (or woman, don't want to be sexist)

But to main the point of your post, are you saying that only in MLG can competitions be fair and that outside of the MLG we have to live with it not being fair.

With MLG there is a lot riding on matches. Money, sponsorships, ect. It makes more sense to keep everyone on a standard level of play. And in fact, it's isn't so much the INHERENT issue of fairness in play, but rather the actual monetary component of the contest that mandates said standards.

Oh and I don't most consider their on-line play on the PC to be 'casual'.....

When I say "casual" I mean there isn't anything riding on a NON-professional competition game. Sure, some people can take it to the point where they give themselves a HERNIA stressing over their K/D, but they don't earn anything from it (besides a hernia).

My thing is, the system is already unbalanced in favor of mouse users, and you're actually advocating to make it MORE unbalanced by taking aim assist capabilities away from players who chose to use joysticks online.

 

[Merkavar]

i dont think any game should have auto aim in multiplay no matter the platform or controller used. they should make controllers better.

auto aim is for rubbish. CoD on consoles has auto aim doesnt it? why do people on consoles feel any joy from playing? when the game is basically playing for you.

how much does the auto aim actually do? is it like snap to head from 5M away or like if you aim at the arm it will hit the chest instead?

 

[ph0b0s123]

That's why you have a normal and Special Olympics rather then getting normal and special Olympians to compete against each other.

I guess, although I think the argument is more for keeping the fully-abled from beating the disabled. When you start complaining that the dude with no legs is beating you in a race, you start to loose credibility with me in my books. Perhaps if he had like completely ROBOT legs that allowed him to run like 70 miles per hour, you would have a legit argument. But that's just me, and how I see it; If you can't own up and let someone who's had to suffer like that have a day in the sun, you're not a man. (or woman, don't want to be sexist)

But to main the point of your post, are you saying that only in MLG can competitions be fair and that outside of the MLG we have to live with it not being fair.

With MLG there is a lot riding on matches. Money, sponsorships, ect. It makes more sense to keep everyone on a standard level of play. And in fact, it's isn't so much the INHERENT issue of fairness in play, but rather the actual monetary component of the contest that mandates said standards.

Oh and I don't most consider their on-line play on the PC to be 'casual'.....

When I say "casual" I mean there isn't anything riding on a NON-professional competition game. Sure, some people can take it to the point where they give themselves a HERNIA stressing over their K/D, but they don't earn anything from it (besides a hernia).

My thing is, the system is already unbalanced in favor of mouse users, and you're actually advocating to make it MORE unbalanced by taking aim assist capabilities away from players who chose to use joysticks online.

I don't think anyone would take seriously an event where some foot races someone in a wheel chair. People with blades effectively have robot legs as they, or at least cyborg legs. The blades spring allow disabled users to out distance their competitors with normal legs. So no it has gotten to the time where some disabled sportsmen using the latest technology can beat their able bodied competitors.

But we are never going to agree. I don't think any mouse and KB user will tolerate others getting help just because the control method they have chosen is inferior. If you chose an inferior controller you have to live with it. Even if that means joypad users will not want to play on-line on the PC. I like to be friendly, but in this case if you chose a rubbish control method, tough you get no help, except maybe a link to a shop selling mice and keyboards.....

Like I said when I started this thread, I have nothing against joypad users playing on the PC or having auto aim in single players games. Also having joypad only servers where auto-aim can be enabled. But when it comes to joypad vs mouse and keyboard it should only be the naked performance of the controller without auto-aim....

 

[Elamdri]

I don't think anyone would take seriously an event where some foot races someone in a wheel chair. People with blades effectively have robot legs as they, or at least cyborg legs. The blades spring allow disabled users to out distance their competitors with normal legs. So no it has gotten to the time where some disabled sportsmen using the latest technology can beat their able bodied competitors.

I can certainly see that argument, and I would probably wager in a Marathon having high end prosthetic legs that you can use effectively would result in better results, but I just personally don't think that what they have now are necessarily "enhancements."

But we are never going to agree. I don't think any mouse and KB user will tolerate others getting help just because the control method they have chosen is inferior. If you chose an inferior controller you have to live with it. Even if that means joypad users will not want to play on-line on the PC. I like to be friendly, but in this case if you chose a rubbish control method, tough you get no help, except maybe a link to a shop selling mice and keyboards.....

Like I said when I started this thread, I have nothing against joypad users playing on the PC or having auto aim in single players games. Also having joypad only servers where auto-aim can be enabled. But when it comes to joypad vs mouse and keyboard it should only be the naked performance of the controller without auto-aim....

Honestly I think it's a terrible thing when people agree all the time. If no one challenges you, how can you ever be exposed to new ways of thinking? I honestly have no stake in the matter, I use a mouse so I'm not effected. I can totally see your point and It's a valid argument, I just view it from a different perspective.

I've never been one to view a handicap as a bad thing, but it's not something that all gamers agree on. Look at Death Streaks from MW2. I thought that the idea of balancing a bad player by giving them bonuses was a good idea, but the community hated it. Which isn't to say that the idea of boosting a player having a bad game to make them more competitive is wrong, but that's just not what people who played the game happened to like.

 

[Rednog]

I think it really depends on how much of an aim assist there is. I mean you watch a lot of Black Ops videos on youtube and a clear majority (if not almost all) of the videos are of the 360/PS3 and not the PC. This is because the aim assist is pretty large and if you watch most videos where the gamer gets an insane score you see that they rarely ever "aim", instead it turns into a point down your screen while in ironsights and strafe left to right while unloading pretty much only aiming at the center of mass (which the aim assist goes for). Whereas with a mouse and keyboard without this auto assist shots are fairly random as to placement, you see some people aiming for the center, some for the head, etc. By giving a large assist to joystick users you could end up with joystick users at an advantage because while they aren't accurate at all in terms of where they are placing their shots, their salvo of bullets into the torso can be quicker than aiming with a keyboard in an med/small range.

 

[Plinglebob]

The PS3 and PC versions of Unreal Tournament III used to be cross compatible and even though they had aim assist, the PS3 players got their asses handed to them everytime.