Poll: Skyrim: Empire or Stormcloaks?

Korentin_Black

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IceForce said:
Stormcloaks.

I will concede that the combined forces of the Empire and the people of Skyrim (Nords) will make for a more formidable force, when the Empire strikes back [small](hurr hurr hurr, see what I did there?)[/small] against the Thalmor.

However, there is one big problem with this. Is the Imperial Emperor ever going to declare war on the Thalmor? Of course he fucking isn't. The Thalmor have him over a barrel.

I look at it this way; if the Thalmor are the Nazis, then that makes the Empire the equivalent of Neville Chamberlain (who famously tried to make peace with Hitler), whereas the Stormcloaks would be the equivalent to Winston Churchill.
Empire, for exactly this reason - like Chamberlain, the Empire cannot currently prosecute, let alone win this war... But in a few years, when the next generation of Men are grown and the Mer still haven't made good their losses... Appeasement, though flawed can be an active as well as passive strategy: Diplomacy is the art of saying 'Nice doggie' until you can find a rock.
 

Metalix Knightmare

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kenu12345 said:
Muspelheim said:
I think it'll have to be Empire, at the end of the day. The Stormcloaks have good reason to be cross, but, well... "A uni'ed Empyre is bet'er fer evryune".
The Empire has fallen hard from what it used to be, but united, it at least has a chance. The question is if a temporary concession to Thalmor dogma is worth it, though. And if the Empire can gather enough strength to rebuild the provinces and gather enough strength to challenge the Dominion. Not to mention, I've been working for the dear ol' Empire since Morrowind.

Of course, since I usually play Khajiit, working for the Dominion would also make some sense. They brought the moons back, after all. Although it's difficult to say what the Banana Elves' long term plan for the kitties might be. All in all, it's a shame that isn't a real option, I can picture him sitting behind a desk as a provincial governor warlord, swirling sherry in a little glass.

I prefer my own head-canon, where my Murderpuss-In-Boots made the rickety armistice last much longer than the expected five minutes by careful use of daggers, blackmail and favours from high places. A few very important people turning up dead recently didn't hurt, either.
Unless of course the leadership is faulty. Hammerfall has already proven they could stand without the empire. I see nothing wrong with separate states forming together to beat a common enemy instead
Dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet, but most of Hammerfall is a freaking desert island! The Redguards know it well, and there is very little an invading army could use to support itself thus necessitating regular supply shipments from the homeland by boat (As an added bit of fun, the Redguards are badass sailors thus ensuring those shipments will be getting hit as well).

Skyrim in comparison is attached to a larger continent which would allow another route of invasion, ESPECIALLY if the Empire territories fall first, has plenty of fertile areas to use for resources, and as an added bonus most of said farmland is attached to the area where land invasions would most likely be coming from! As much as the Stormcloaks would hate to admit it, the Empire really IS the only thing stopping the Dominion from taking over if only by acting as a meatshield!
 

kenu12345

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Metalix Knightmare said:
kenu12345 said:
Muspelheim said:
I think it'll have to be Empire, at the end of the day. The Stormcloaks have good reason to be cross, but, well... "A uni'ed Empyre is bet'er fer evryune".
The Empire has fallen hard from what it used to be, but united, it at least has a chance. The question is if a temporary concession to Thalmor dogma is worth it, though. And if the Empire can gather enough strength to rebuild the provinces and gather enough strength to challenge the Dominion. Not to mention, I've been working for the dear ol' Empire since Morrowind.

Of course, since I usually play Khajiit, working for the Dominion would also make some sense. They brought the moons back, after all. Although it's difficult to say what the Banana Elves' long term plan for the kitties might be. All in all, it's a shame that isn't a real option, I can picture him sitting behind a desk as a provincial governor warlord, swirling sherry in a little glass.

I prefer my own head-canon, where my Murderpuss-In-Boots made the rickety armistice last much longer than the expected five minutes by careful use of daggers, blackmail and favours from high places. A few very important people turning up dead recently didn't hurt, either.
Unless of course the leadership is faulty. Hammerfall has already proven they could stand without the empire. I see nothing wrong with separate states forming together to beat a common enemy instead
Dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet, but most of Hammerfall is a freaking desert island! The Redguards know it well, and there is very little an invading army could use to support itself thus necessitating regular supply shipments from the homeland by boat (As an added bit of fun, the Redguards are badass sailors thus ensuring those shipments will be getting hit as well).

Skyrim in comparison is attached to a larger continent which would allow another route of invasion, ESPECIALLY if the Empire territories fall first, has plenty of fertile areas to use for resources, and as an added bonus most of said farmland is attached to the area where land invasions would most likely be coming from! As much as the Stormcloaks would hate to admit it, the Empire really IS the only thing stopping the Dominion from taking over if only by acting as a meatshield!
Yes, but skyrim is surrounded by mountains that limit an advancing armies movements unless they know specific paths like a local. Not to mention, that they could form an alliance with Hammerfall and get the ball rolling. Just like captcha says: Easy as cake
 

Metalix Knightmare

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kenu12345 said:
Metalix Knightmare said:
kenu12345 said:
Muspelheim said:
I think it'll have to be Empire, at the end of the day. The Stormcloaks have good reason to be cross, but, well... "A uni'ed Empyre is bet'er fer evryune".
The Empire has fallen hard from what it used to be, but united, it at least has a chance. The question is if a temporary concession to Thalmor dogma is worth it, though. And if the Empire can gather enough strength to rebuild the provinces and gather enough strength to challenge the Dominion. Not to mention, I've been working for the dear ol' Empire since Morrowind.

Of course, since I usually play Khajiit, working for the Dominion would also make some sense. They brought the moons back, after all. Although it's difficult to say what the Banana Elves' long term plan for the kitties might be. All in all, it's a shame that isn't a real option, I can picture him sitting behind a desk as a provincial governor warlord, swirling sherry in a little glass.

I prefer my own head-canon, where my Murderpuss-In-Boots made the rickety armistice last much longer than the expected five minutes by careful use of daggers, blackmail and favours from high places. A few very important people turning up dead recently didn't hurt, either.
Unless of course the leadership is faulty. Hammerfall has already proven they could stand without the empire. I see nothing wrong with separate states forming together to beat a common enemy instead
Dunno if anyone has mentioned this yet, but most of Hammerfall is a freaking desert island! The Redguards know it well, and there is very little an invading army could use to support itself thus necessitating regular supply shipments from the homeland by boat (As an added bit of fun, the Redguards are badass sailors thus ensuring those shipments will be getting hit as well).

Skyrim in comparison is attached to a larger continent which would allow another route of invasion, ESPECIALLY if the Empire territories fall first, has plenty of fertile areas to use for resources, and as an added bonus most of said farmland is attached to the area where land invasions would most likely be coming from! As much as the Stormcloaks would hate to admit it, the Empire really IS the only thing stopping the Dominion from taking over if only by acting as a meatshield!
Yes, but skyrim is surrounded by mountains that limit an advancing armies movements unless they know specific paths like a local. Not to mention, that they could form an alliance with Hammerfall and get the ball rolling. Just like captcha says: Easy as cake
Given how many of Ulfric's soldiers are all "Skyrim for the NORDS!" and how much the Dominion seems to love stirring up internal conflicts, I can't help but think that would end up being a rather short lived alliance unless the Redguards stuck to the boats. (And given that the most inhospitable areas are best reached by boat, they'd most likely be sticking to land based invasions.)

The mountains ARE a challenge, but once you're past them and can get a foothold all you'd really have to do is wait them out for the most part. The Nords would be stuck in areas where it's incredibly hard to grow food, and would have to get supplies shipped in by boat or eat a lot more fish (and even then not all of the Northern territories have good fishing spots), and it's unlikely they'd have many friends left by that point willing to even try. The Orcs have no kingdom anymore, the Argonians have become isolationists, the Empire would most likely be pretty much GONE, the Redguards wouldn't really have that much to offer up in terms of food, and all the other races are either part of the Dominion already or have been pissed on by the Stormcloaks.

TL,DR: That whole "Skyrim for the Nords" thing is REALLY gonna bite Ulfric in the ass.
 

Maphysto

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Empire. I was sympathetic to the Stormcloaks until I realized how damned racist they are.

Besides, the Stormcloaks are doing exactly what the Thalmor want: they're creating disunity and strife in the region. The more trouble the Stormcloaks cause, the more resources the Empire will have to divert to deal with them, and the less capable they'll be to unite against the Aldmeri Dominion.
 

Arkliem

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http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Countess_Alessia_Caro
"I am Countess Alessia Caro, wife to Count Marius. I think Leyawiin would be better off if we removed all the dirty Argonians such as yourself. You wouldn't have a problem with that, would you?"
They say that Count Marius interrogates Argonian immigrants from Black Marsh. The servants whisper that the Argonians are dragged into the basement and never seen again."
"Shh! It's dangerous to be heard talking about that. The Countess has a secret passage somewhere in the basement that leads to her private quarters. That's where the torture chamber is. Sometimes I can hear the screams of the prisoners when I'm in my chambers."
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Bravil
However, beastfolk are comfortable in the company of other beastfolk, as are thieves and brutes naturally drawn to the company of one another.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Cheydinhal
Many of these residents seem respectable to all appearances, but no sooner do they open their mouths than they reveal themselves to be evil brutes, shocking and rude, and more likely to murder you and bury you in their basements as to speak a civil word to you. That many of these rough, unpleasant people are Orcs should be no surprise to you.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Guide_to_Leyawiin
if it weren't for the raffish rabble of Argonian and Khajiit descent, Leyawiin would be a pleasant and safe place to visit.
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:A_Dance_in_Fire#Chapter_4
"The Cyrodiils and Redguards don't want Bosmer refugees streaming into their provinces. It only stands to reason. Imagine how much more criminally inclined they'd be now that they're homeless and hungry."

Generally speaking, all races in TES are racist to some degree or another. Redguards/Bretons despise orcs. Nords and Dunmer have a long standing feud(And dunmer have no favor with Khajiit and Argonians). Imperials tend to consider all other races to be inferior as do the Altmer. The khajiit and bosmer also clash often(Though mainly only told through books). Orcs tend to not have a race they despise, instead living up to their name as the pariah race. Possible that most also enjoy the conflict though given their reverence of Malacath.
 

sumanoskae

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Fuck em' all. Stormcloaks are nationalist, racist pricks; the Empire is a bloated, corrupt bureaucracy so weak they had to bend their knee to a nation of fascists; the Aldemeri Dominion ARE a nation of fascists.

I helped out the Stormcloaks, just to weaken and divide the Empire further. Then I joined the Dark Brotherhood and killed the emperor. With any luck, the world will fall into a massive war, and the powers that be will crumble. Then I'll roll in with a flight of Dragons, a guild of assassins, and the glorious powers of magic at my beck and call, and install myself as the Immortal Vampiric Lord of Nirn.
 

Silvanus

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Elfgore said:
Empire without a doubt. For key reasons.

The Aldmeri Dominion is a powerful, unified force. The only thing that can hope to stop it is a strong, unified force. The Empire is already starting to fall apart, Argonia is gone as is Hammerfell. Leaving High Rock, Morrowind, Orsinium, Skyrim, and Cyrodil. Letting the Stormcloaks take over Skyrim would be condemning almost any hope the of stopping the Dominion.
That assumes the Empire will make any move against the Dominion, as opposed to stepping aside and allowing it to do whatever it wishes.

The Empire seem a little like the conspirators from The X-Files, or Doctor Breen from Half Life 2; justifiably terrified of a powerful outside force (Aliens/Combine/Thalmor), and while they might be optimistically holding a few cards behind their back, they're really aiding and abetting that outside force, and that will be their legacy. The Stormcloaks may not present a real threat to Thalmor power, but the Empire are outright abetting them.
 

Ishal

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Silvanus said:
Elfgore said:
Empire without a doubt. For key reasons.

The Aldmeri Dominion is a powerful, unified force. The only thing that can hope to stop it is a strong, unified force. The Empire is already starting to fall apart, Argonia is gone as is Hammerfell. Leaving High Rock, Morrowind, Orsinium, Skyrim, and Cyrodil. Letting the Stormcloaks take over Skyrim would be condemning almost any hope the of stopping the Dominion.
That assumes the Empire will make any move against the Dominion, as opposed to stepping aside and allowing it to do whatever it wishes.

The Empire seem a little like the conspirators from The X-Files, or Doctor Breen from Half Life 2; justifiably terrified of a powerful outside force (Aliens/Combine/Thalmor), and while they might be optimistically holding a few cards behind their back, they're really aiding and abetting that outside force, and that will be their legacy. The Stormcloaks may not present a real threat to Thalmor power, but the Empire are outright abetting them.
It really depends on the perspective you take with the lore.

They play up that the Empire might regroup at some point, and it's just biding it's time. But the Thalmor are doing the same, and they are not only well prepared, but actively pressing their advantage, which we see in Skyrim. It's true the Empire is abetting them, but I don't necessarily think the Thalmor are everything they are cracked up to be.

First, they are merely a faction within the Aldmeri Dominion. The current ruling faction with significant power, granted. But still not all of it. As such, they can be toppled. We already know that there are other more powerful Mer around (the Psijics) and probably more than that.

Second, the Dominion has lost battles before. They aren't invincible. Hammerfell defeated them entirely on their own, forcing them to withdraw.

Now, I don't think much of this matters. With the way Bethesda has been writing lately, for the next game I think they'll Dragonbreak the conflict completely. Or, they'll place it some time after the events of Skyrim, but before an event that tips the balance of power in the world. From what I've heard, the next game will probably take place in Hammerfell. If not that, then the other places are the Summerset Isles or Valenwood.

These games and their lore are centered around big players that move and shake the world. I don't see the Dominion as winning out in the end. And as someone else said, the Empire has plot armor. Especially if another Septim somehow takes the throne again.
 

Superlative

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Empire all day everyday 24/7...except that one time I did an RP run as a Redguard.

Playing as myself
[spoiler:Not Rping]As myself I am kind of for the Empire, but I care much more about the whole dragons murdering whole towns thing. The Dominion is bad but if random dude on the street impales an Altimer on a pike the elf stays dead. As the Dragonborn I have bigger fish to fry than who runs the giant ice bucket. [/spoiler]

RPing as a Redguard
[spoiler:RP] Playing as a Redguard I favored the Stormcloaks because an independent Skyrim is much more likely to help Hammerfel tip the scales against the Aldmeri than the still salty Empire. [/spoiler]
 

LetalisK

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Stormcloak. Mind you, I haven't been very deep into either story line, but I take Stormcloaks for a couple reasons. 1) The Empire is already dead, just nobody wants to realize it yet. The Aldmeri have them by the balls and the Empire will just die a slow and painful death. That's assuming a mcguffan doesn't destroy the Aldmeri. 2) More importantly, I will take the regressive racist dicks over the imperialists turned puppets having their strings pulled by regressive racist dicks every day of the week and actually find some yummy irony in it.
 

White Lightning

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I always like these threads, but whenever I see them I always wonder if the people who pick Empire have even played the game. "A huuuurrr the Stormclaoks are racys!!!", are they? If you even spent more than 5 minutes in Windhelm you'll see that the treatment of the other races is justified, and this is from a proud Argonian. The dock Argonians flat out admit they steal, some of the elves do too, the ones that are treated badly bring it on themselves.

While on the flip side, the (high?) Elf that runs the shop by the blacksmith gets treated well because she worked hard and won the peoples respect. Some of the Dark Elves notice and try to do the same, and so does the female dock Argonian.

Yeah sure some of them shout "Skyrim is for the Nords!" but can you blame them? For a lot of them the only interaction with other races they've had usually go badly for them, whether it be from Thalmor, Empire, or a guy swiping their apples or something.

With that out of the way there's the matter of actually defeating the Thalmor. If Skyrim is independent the Thalmor will have no jurisdiction there, making spying much more difficult. Tactically this is far more valuable then staying in the Empire, because now there are 2 wild cards for the Thalmor to deal with, Hammerfell and Skyrim, as opposed to just one group they can fully monitor. Besides I'm sure if the Thalmor came knocking on one of those doors the other 2 groups would come help just because fuck the Thalmor.
 

soufiria

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I went with the empire, which, funnily enough, was kind of ironic cause I had just killed the emperor after finishing all the Dark Brotherhood missions(Sorry if that spoiled it for anyone). So as I'm going through the motions of joining the Empire's ranks and getting debriefed on the oaths I'd have to take, I remember specifically asked to swear to protect the emperor. To which, my only response was, "You mean the one I just killed? Yeah, that seems easy enough." So yeah, I'm all for joining that empire when I can get permission from my secret cult of assassins to kill the emperor whenever he gets too rowdy.
 

Shadowkire

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I go stormcloak. Always.

1)They are probably the least racist. Windhelm has the largest dark elf population in the game, and the only mistreatment they get is from a pair of drunks. This level of tolerance is incredible considering the majority of dark elves are slavers, as bigoted as the Thalmor high elves, and enthusiastic deadra worshipers. The argonians aren't let in because many of them are thieves and the dark elves have a long history of enslaving them, who needs that kind of racial tension?

2)The Aldmeri aren't going to take over the world. After the war they were given land in Hammerfell, the redguards left the empire and defeated the army sent to secure those lands. Seems like the Aldmeri Dominion is not the incredible juggernaut of conquest the fearmongering imperials make them out to be.

3)This is a continuation of 2: If Hammerfell was able to win against the elves alone, why did the empire give up so easily? If they had stuck it out they could have broken the Dominion. Instead they folded a winning hand. I don't prefer siding with losers.

4)The empire tries to kill the player at the beginning of the game. Your BFF in the empire(hadrid?) even openly admits that you shouldn't be executed, but doesn't actually do or say anything on your behalf. Alduin, the villain of the game, does more to save your hide than that prick.

5)The empire's laws are a joke. When you later meet Tullius, the general you presided over your near execution, he just says: "Well I know we were going to execute you, but it seems like we didn't have a good reason to and I surely won't be consistent on this." The empire also allowed a foreign power to write and enforce a law inside it's borders, which is essentially giving up sovereignty.


TLDR: Stormcloaks are tolerant, Aldmeri are overrated, empire is a loser, empire is a jerk, and empire is corrupt.
 

Rampage470

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I'm with the Empire, but I will gladly kill any Thalmor I see walking along the roads.

I have been attacked by more Justicars than you could possible imagine.
 

pookie101

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well in my modded game the emperor had a slight accident with a two handed battle axe while shaving and my breton is now empress and is uniting skyrim for the war we are waging against the thalmor
 

IceForce

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By Ysmir's beard! The Empire is curb-stomping the opposition in this thread.

Quick everyone, better hide your Talos amulets!