Poll: Skyrim: Empire or Stormcloaks?

[Josh123914]

Was thinking about this question after booting up Skyrim again, and since the site hasn't had a moral dilemma this difficult (that was, y'know, intentional on the part of the devs) I figured we ought to party like it's 2011.

I usually go Stormcloaks, because I saw the Empire as a sinking ship that was willing to install yes men and incompetent people as long as they kept the bureaucracy running properly. Additionally, Hammerfell's already seceded, so there's a precedent to oppose the Aldmeri Dominion while not being incorporated into the Empire.

There are other reasons, as in, a whole bunch more reasons, and I'm glad Bethesda made the choice so layered, but I think I'll leave it at that for the OP and post a bit more later.

 

[Hades]

Full blown Imperial here. Romans beat Vikings every time.

I just don't think the Stormcloaks have that much of a point. Skyrim isn't some poor oppresed nation but had always been part of the empire. The whole ban on Talos worship got enforced because the Stormcloak loudly screamed from the rooftops that they wouldn't stand for it when the empire was still lax in regards with it. There's also the racism and how even some Stormcloak leaders themselves think Ulfric is doing it all for ulfric

The biggest point against the Stormcloaks is that they come off as gigantic tools who are played by the Nazi elves like a fiddle. Weakening the best chance against Nazi elves trying to destroy the worlds certainly seems like a good idea right?

 

[Sniper Team 4]

I've had this debate with my friend, because he always sides with Stormcloaks and I always pick Empire. For me, both sides had good points, but the Empire just has more to stand on in my view.

I can't remember where it is, but you can find a note somewhere regarding the Dominion's thoughts on the matter. They say they do not care which side wins, because as long as the civil war continues, it strengthens their position. They do note, however, that a divide Empire would be easier to conquer, and so that's why they are letting Ulfric run around and do his thing. Basically, to have a better chance of beating the Dominion eventually, the Empire needs to be united, not a bunch of separate states fighting each other. Thus, major point for the Empire in my book.

Next point, and the one that really pushed me over the edge, was when I met Ulfric himself. He preached equality, and rights, and all this great stuff. Whoo! Sounds like a good man to follow. Until you realize he's only applying those beliefs to fellow Nords. If you're not a Nord, and if you are especially not human, he sees you as sub-class. He doesn't care about the other races or the problems they are enduring while he's in charge. That ticked me off, and I realized that if a man like that was put in charge of all of Skyrim, that cancer would spread and life would be miserable for all the non-humans.

So basically, for the good of Skyrim's future, I always side with the Empire.

 

[OneCatch]

Empire.
I've saved it from from necromancers, undead lords, plague, metaphysical horror, ash-blight, insane would-be-deities, demons, madness, literal Gods.
Am I really going to let a ragtag bunch of fascist barbarians undo all that hard work?

 

[Auron225]

I struggled with this one for an exceptionally long time, to the point where the civil war questline was the absolute last thing I did before I put the game down (after over 100 hours of game play).

I eventually decided to go with the Empire though. I can dig the whole "FIGHT THE EVIL EMPIRE! VIVA LA RESISTAWNCE!" thing, especially since they tried to kill me right at the start of the game for horrible crime of being around, but let's face it, the Stormcloaks are hilariously racist. They essentially want to evict all non-Nords so that the motherland can be cleansed from outside filth.

Additionally (and it has been quite a while since I played this game so I'm hazy on the details) but Tamriel was more or less at the mercy of... (was it the Aldmeri dominion?) some neighbouring superpower which was ready to lay ruin to everything. Tamriel cannot stand up to this foe if it's divided - it needs the power of Skyrim as well, which it won't have if the Stormcloaks succeed. If the Stormcloaks win, then hooray, the Empire is out of Skyrim - but it only means their practically guaranteed destruction when the Aldmeri Dominion comes to visit in the near future.

 

[ExDeath730]

Empire.

Besides the thing that it's one of the only fantastic worlds where we have the Roman Empire in a fashion, it's because i think with the big picture in mind.

With the Stormcloaks winning, the Dominion ends up stronger, since it would be easier to conquest Skyrim, and after the Civil War even if the Empire wanted to help Skyrim in the war, it just woudn't have the military strength or the manpower to be of much help, so after all that talk of "oppression", the ultimate result of Skyrim seceding from the Empire would be their conquest by the Nazi Elves. Them i can bet they would learn what the word "oppression" really means. Aside from that...I just felt...I don't know, dirty with all the racism in the Stormcloaks.

With the Empire winning it would stay united and be able to regain the lost strength while waiting for the right moment to strike, because there would be one. With the way that the Dominion rules those under them, it's just a matter of time until rebellions start popping up, and that would be the optimal time to aid the rebels and crush the Dominion. Of course this is something that needs patience to pull off.

Aside from those reasons, if i remember correctly, there is a letter about Ulfric being actually in collusion with the Dominion or something like that. It would make sense, someone as ambitious and two-faced like him is the perfect puppet king.

 

[IceForce]

Stormcloaks.

I will concede that the combined forces of the Empire and the people of Skyrim (Nords) will make for a more formidable force, when the Empire strikes back [small](hurr hurr hurr, see what I did there?)[/small] against the Thalmor.

However, there is one big problem with this. Is the Imperial Emperor ever going to declare war on the Thalmor? Of course he fucking isn't. The Thalmor have him over a barrel.

I look at it this way; if the Thalmor are the Nazis, then that makes the Empire the equivalent of Neville Chamberlain (who famously tried to make peace with Hitler), whereas the Stormcloaks would be the equivalent to Winston Churchill.

 

[RJ 17]

There's also the racism and how even some Stormcloak leaders themselves think Ulfric is doing it all for ulfric

That's pretty much why I just can't bring myself to side with the Stormcloaks, and as such I've never seen their side of the story line.

When you first walk into Ulfric's keep and he's speaking with his general (or whoever that is) about why he's fighting, if you listen to the conversation it's very clear that he's a very charismatic person. I can see how it'd be easy to get swept away in the pride he has for his land and his people. But then you actually talk to him and the more you do you start to realize "Wow...you....you really are just a completely racist asshole, aren't you? Like...you're such an asshole, that if Mehrune's Dagon saw you walking down the street, he'd be like "Wow, that guy's a fucking asshole." "

Considering I tend to play either a Dark Elf or a Khajiit, I just could never get past Ulfric's blatant racism against everyone who's not a Nord. Perhaps if I ever played a Nord I'd be able to justify siding with the Stormcloaks, but even then it would be difficult. One of the NPC's you meet early on does indeed point out that Skyrim has always been part of the Empire, and the Empire has always been good for Skyrim. My TES lore is a bit rusty, but wasn't the first Emperor a Nord from Skyrim?

Edit: With all that said, if becoming a Thalmor agent and working to destroy the Stormcloaks while undermining the Empire was an actual option, I'd likely go with that choice every time just because I like playing as a villain/spreader of chaos. >=3

 

[Loop Stricken]

I work for Belethor, at the General Goods Store.

 

[IceForce]

Today, they take away your faith. But what of tomorrow? Do the elves take your homes? Your businesses? Your children? Your very lives?
And what does the Empire do? Nothing! Nay, worse than nothing! The Imperial machine enforces the will of the Thalmor, AGAINST ITS OWN PEOPLE!​

-Heimskr​

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That's pretty much why I just can't bring myself to side with the Stormcloaks, and as such I've never seen their side of the story line.

It's not as bad as you think. Ulfric actually shows some restraint. He tells Legate Rikke that she's free to go, (she refuses though, and turns hostile anyway), and he also allows the Jarl of Solitude (Elisif the Fair) to live and remain in office, despite the fact that he killed her husband and she still hates him for it.

Edit: With all that said, if becoming a Thalmor agent and working to destroy the Stormcloaks while undermining the Empire was an actual option, I'd likely go with that choice every time just because I like playing as a villain/spreader of chaos. >=3

That would have been an awesome option for evil characters (or Altmer dragonborns of any persuasion).

Missed opportunity there, Bethesda.

 

[kenu12345]

Oy, I don't feel the Stormcloaks will bear well in this poll, but either way I chose Stormcloaks cause I feel taking away some ones right to worship who they want wrong. Plus at that point, the Empire was just dead weight dragging people down. If Hammerfall can stand against the Aldmeri Dominion then Skyrim+ Hammerfell can do even better

 

[Muspelheim]

I think it'll have to be Empire, at the end of the day. The Stormcloaks have good reason to be cross, but, well... "A uni'ed Empyre is bet'er fer evryune".
The Empire has fallen hard from what it used to be, but united, it at least has a chance. The question is if a temporary concession to Thalmor dogma is worth it, though. And if the Empire can gather enough strength to rebuild the provinces and gather enough strength to challenge the Dominion. Not to mention, I've been working for the dear ol' Empire since Morrowind.

Of course, since I usually play Khajiit, working for the Dominion would also make some sense. They brought the moons back, after all. Although it's difficult to say what the Banana Elves' long term plan for the kitties might be. All in all, it's a shame that isn't a real option, I can picture him sitting behind a desk as a provincial governor warlord, swirling sherry in a little glass.

I prefer my own head-canon, where my Murderpuss-In-Boots made the rickety armistice last much longer than the expected five minutes by careful use of daggers, blackmail and favours from high places. A few very important people turning up dead recently didn't hurt, either.

 

[kenu12345]

I think it'll have to be Empire, at the end of the day. The Stormcloaks have good reason to be cross, but, well... "A uni'ed Empyre is bet'er fer evryune".
The Empire has fallen hard from what it used to be, but united, it at least has a chance. The question is if a temporary concession to Thalmor dogma is worth it, though. And if the Empire can gather enough strength to rebuild the provinces and gather enough strength to challenge the Dominion. Not to mention, I've been working for the dear ol' Empire since Morrowind.

Of course, since I usually play Khajiit, working for the Dominion would also make some sense. They brought the moons back, after all. Although it's difficult to say what the Banana Elves' long term plan for the kitties might be. All in all, it's a shame that isn't a real option, I can picture him sitting behind a desk as a provincial governor warlord, swirling sherry in a little glass.

I prefer my own head-canon, where my Murderpuss-In-Boots made the rickety armistice last much longer than the expected five minutes by careful use of daggers, blackmail and favours from high places. A few very important people turning up dead recently didn't hurt, either.

Unless of course the leadership is faulty. Hammerfall has already proven they could stand without the empire. I see nothing wrong with separate states forming together to beat a common enemy instead

 

[Callate]

Ultimately, Stormcloaks. I think the Nords have a right to self-rule, especially when the alternative is a puppet government that executes dissenters and random adventurers on a whim. I don't love their racism, but at least they're just trying to control their own homes, not force their supposed superiority on others through conquest.

 

[Nieroshai]

To me as an outside force who's not culturally influenced by Tamriel? I can't say. The Empire is better for Tamriel (when not having to placate the Thalmor), but the Stormcloaks have a good point: the Thalmor aren't going to leave it at the White-Gold Concordat. Ulfric is a blatant villain, and the Empire is so heavy-handed that they are creating Stormcloaks daily. Having the Dragonborn on your side really skews the odds, though, and I'd say an Empire with support from the Dragonborn could beat the Thalmor if it wanted to. Internal lore, though, may not necessarily treat the Dragonborn as nearly as powerful a character as (s)he is in the hands of a player.

 

[KenAri]

I usually take Stormcloaks, but I don't delve that deeply into the lore. Some people above are arguing that the Imperials losing will strengthen the Dominion, but that doesn't really mean much to a player like me; 'I'll just mash LMB and hold W and solve that problem when it arises, too'.

There isn't a problem that can't be solved with genocide in Skyrim, so I'll choose the team that does the most fighting.
Battling for racial equality afterwards will be a breeze. There are like 1000 people in Skyrim. I could be done slapping sense into them before dinner.

If I stopped and considered the Skyrim world to have the political intricacies of our world, the Imperials would probably be the better choice. Denizens wouldn't be as sad as they think they would be, and everyone'd be united. But this isn't an intricate political world; strength rules, and I have the strongest plot armour. Sod the Stormcloaks too. I'll rule this joint.

 

[thewatergamer]

FOR THE EMPIRE MURDER ALL THE RACIST STORMCLOAKS

Yeah pretty much my entire reason for joining the empire, is I hate the stormcloaks attitude towards the other races... If you played the game you will know what I mean, that's assuming I pick a side at all

 

[hittite]

Empire, for all the reasons listed above plus one more.

During Season Unending I lost the last shred of respect I had for Ulfric when he taunted Elisif. Way to uphold the honor of the Nords and respect the widow of the man you killed, Ulfric.

 

[Souplex]

This seems relevant: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.827207-Poll-Warp-in-the-North
The fact is, a Stormcloak victory serves Thalmor interests. If nobody is strong enough to fight the Dominion, they win.
Plus racism.
Other points about the Aldmeri/Imperial conflict:
1. If Skyrim leaves the Empire, then High Rock is completely cut off from Cyrodil, and probably leaves as well. An empire consisting of Cyrodil and the ashen remains of Morrowind won't be much of a threat to the Dominion.

2. Yes, Hamerfell was able to push back the Dominion, but this didn't happen in a vacuum. The Dominion would be unable to fully commit to an attack for fear of leaving themselves vulnerable to the Empire. If there's no Empire, they're free to steamroll the competition.

3. It's only been 30 years since the great war. Losses were severe on both sides. Humans repopulate much more quickly then elves though. Give it another 20 years, and the Empire has a severe numerical advantage.