Poll: So Steam is not going to censor what games it will sell

[DANEgerous]

My thoughts? Fantastic!Why anyone would want such a thing is so far beyond me that arguments against it do not even sound as if they are in English. Someone will make a game I will find objectionable most likely at some point and I would never want it to be banned, that is just absurd. Strangely people do oppose this most notably for this site Jim Sterling and I have to say his argument gets as 0/100 it is beyond abysmal as he claims stores endorse what they sell an argument that is just astonishingly stupid as that means Amazon supports Nazis, Communist, Christian, Muslims, Atheists, basically all sides of any argument ever made in the history of mankind by selling books on said subjects. I mean hell I know my own store sells both Bibles and ?The God Delusion? so apparently my store is a Christian Atheist grocery store despite that being impossible as it demands you believe in god will not believing in god. So anyway hats off to Valve in recognizing I am an adult and not profoundly idiotic to the point I will buy things I don?t want for... reasons I can?t comprehend, guess that ability alludes a lot of people somehow.

 

[Avnger]

Of course a storefront is responsible for what they sell. Does you local grocery store sell self-help books for how to best earn 72 virgins as an Islamic martyr? Does Amazon sell smut porn collections?

Steam absolutely is endorsing the products they sell by giving them a platform to sell from; it's not a "we believe in everything contained" endorsement, but it is a "we believe this work is worthwhile and doesn't clash with our values." They've entered into a business contract. They make money off every sale.

Would a Christian bookstore refusing to sell "The God Delusion" be censorship? Is Walmart refusing to sell AO rated games censorship? Is the BBC refusing to air my homemade Avengers spin-off videos censorship?

 

[StatusNil]

Does you local grocery store sell self-help books for how to best earn 72 virgins as an Islamic martyr?

Which game on Steam is the equivalent of that?

Steam absolutely is endorsing the products they sell by giving them a platform to sell from; it's not a "we believe in everything contained" endorsement, but it is a "we believe this work is worthwhile and doesn't clash with our values."

Reading too much into a simple commercial enterprise. The relevant values are to provide a reliable marketplace for businesses to sell and people to buy products. Caveat emptor.

Would a Christian bookstore refusing to sell "The God Delusion" be censorship?

Why should Steam model itself on a religious specialist store?

Is Walmart refusing to sell AO rated games censorship?

Kinda?

Is the BBC refusing to air my homemade Avengers spin-off videos censorship?

You should put them on YouTube. BBC is trash, and the constructive feedback on YT is invaluable.

 

[CaitSeith]

This isn't censorship if the government isn't involved. Ironically, Valve's plan is an open invitation for politicians to involve themselves when things get really ugly. It would be fun to see you kids handling real censorship from the government; but I'd rather Valve to wise up and to take preventive measures.

 

[StatusNil]

This isn't censorship if the government isn't involved.

Censorship (noun): The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/censorship

I have no idea where people get the idea that it's only censorship if it's the government. Perhaps you could point to a source? As far as I can tell, anyone with the power to "suppress" or "prohibit" is capable of censorship.

 

[CaitSeith]

I have no idea where people get the idea that it's only censorship if it's the government.

In this case, because Valve isn't prohibiting or suppressing others in selling anything in the first place. Your pedantic dictionary definition is completely off the mark in this case.

 

[Avnger]

Does you local grocery store sell self-help books for how to best earn 72 virgins as an Islamic martyr?

Which game on Steam is the equivalent of that?

Does it matter? I thought this whining was about a right or principal. You know, something that shouldn't be violated regardless of content? If not, then you've already tacitly accepted "censorship", and the question is simply "where is the line" rather than "should we have a line." I thought you believed in free speech. You're no better than the "SocJus authoritarian regressive leftist SJWs;" you just have different ideas of what should be "censored," not if censorship should occur.

Steam absolutely is endorsing the products they sell by giving them a platform to sell from; it's not a "we believe in everything contained" endorsement, but it is a "we believe this work is worthwhile and doesn't clash with our values."

Reading too much into a simple commercial enterprise. The relevant values are to provide a reliable marketplace for businesses to sell and people to buy products. Caveat emptor.

Interesting. So stores shouldn't have any quality or value control on what they sell? A grocery store must be forced to sell rotten food? If they refused to do so, they'd be "censoring" the food producers. Must a bakery sell every type of pastry possible? If they refuse to make poop filled croissants, are they committing censorship?

Would a Christian bookstore refusing to sell "The God Delusion" be censorship?

Why should Steam model itself on a religious specialist store?

The point is that Steam can model itself on any store they want. It's not "censorship" to do so.

Is Walmart refusing to sell AO rated games censorship?

Kinda?

Again, why doesn't a company have any right to association in regards to the brands and products they sell?

Is the BBC refusing to air my homemade Avengers spin-off videos censorship?

You should put them on YouTube. BBC is trash, and the constructive feedback on YT is invaluable.

And you completely side-stepped the point. I mean, I figured you would, but I thought it would be by writing a 10 page essay instead of sarcasm.

This isn't censorship if the government isn't involved.

Censorship (noun): The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/censorship

Please indicate how Steam is suppressing or prohibiting this game. Is Steam working together with other retailers to prevent the devs from selling their work anywhere? Is Steam ensuring a media blackout, so the game doesn't get any coverage or notice? Is Steam trying to get laws written against it or whip up a public frenzy to shut it down?

Those things are what is meant by "suppression or prohibition." Is Steam suppressing the existence of the game? Is Steam suppressing knowledge of the game? Is Steam prohibiting the existence of the game? Is Steam prohibiting it from being sold in totality?

 

[Captain Marvelous_v1legacy]

Valve's dedication to making the Steam store as shitty as possible, by doing absolutely nothing to curate it, is not a good thing. No, it isn't censorship not to sell AIDS Simulator. No, Valve isn't doing the steam store, indie developers, or customers any favors by being lazy shits.

 

[Vanilla ISIS]

This isn't censorship if the government isn't involved.

What if private companies control the flow of information, like they do in our reality?
If Google and Facebook decided to completely get rid of anything that's against the politics of the higher ups from their platforms, you wouldn't call that censorship?
What if both Comcast and Verizon blocked sites of certain political beliefs in the US? Would that not be censorship?

 

[sXeth]

This isn't censorship if the government isn't involved.

Censorship (noun): The suppression or prohibition of any parts of books, films, news, etc. that are considered obscene, politically unacceptable, or a threat to security.

https://en.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/censorship

I have no idea where people get the idea that it's only censorship if it's the government. Perhaps you could point to a source? As far as I can tell, anyone with the power to "suppress" or "prohibit" is capable of censorship.

Censorship that is illegal and or a violation of your rights is specifically tied to various bills of rights (the 1st amendment in the US) which almost always relate specifically to the government.

Censorship by a private company is, within the framework of good old capitalist free market logic that most of said countries also run on, left to the consumer to go buy the product somewhere that doesn't censor it. Rather then a legal matter.

Does you local grocery store sell self-help books for how to best earn 72 virgins as an Islamic martyr?

Which game on Steam is the equivalent of that?

There may as well be a Rule Whatever at this point, if it exists there is some stupid Simulator game of it on Steam.

 

[BreakfastMan]

"Let people flood the service with asset flips without repercussions" = "not going to censor games"

lol okay buddy

 

[CaitSeith]

If Valve removes curation completely, the government is 100% warranted of getting involved very soon. Can we at least agree that it would be a bad thing?

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

I'd take whining about censorship from right wingers more seriously if they weren't in favor of it themselves.

 

[NiGHTSJOD]

I personally dont mind the stance overall. They have already clarified that illegal stuff, or stuff likely to lead to or inspire legal stuff (such as Mass shooting simulator), will be removed. As for stuff not illegal but tasteless (aids simulator or what have you).... well, i'm sure the market will decide the success rate of such titles.

My only reservation would be to ensure that adult stuff and the likes is kept well away the view from minors as much as possible. Hopefully, that good old fashioned "solid parenting" will prevail there.

 

[Smithnikov_v1legacy]

Personal stance, though; I'm fine with Steam refusing to carry asset flip garbage or low effort cash grab trash. Content wise, that get's a little dicier, and honestly, I can't think of anything short of things already illegal that shouldn't be carried.

 

[Zontar]

[
I have no idea where people get the idea that it's only censorship if it's the government.

It arose when megacorporations started becoming dangerously powerful in their control over communication, and started going after acceptable targets (conservatives and liberals) while letting unacceptable ones flourish (progressives and corporatists), and those who fell within the camp of unacceptable targets tried to change language to suit their political interests. It's the same reason why there are people who think institutional racism is the literal only form of racism.

 

[Zontar]

I'd take whining about censorship from right wingers more seriously if they weren't in favor of it themselves.

I assume you're logically consistent with your stance and therefor think literally everyone supports censorship, since there isn't an alternative stance that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

 

[Saelune]

I just want Steam to not let any fucking piece of garbage on their platform. I do not care if adult content is on Steam, care that that adult content is a competent and functioning GAME.

I'd take whining about censorship from right wingers more seriously if they weren't in favor of it themselves.

I assume you're logically consistent with your stance and therefor think literally everyone supports censorship, since there isn't an alternative stance that doesn't make you a hypocrite?

Everyone does support censorship in one way or another. It is a vague term, and there is going to always be something that a person thinks should not be freely seen by anyone.

 

[Hawki]

I think this is pretty pathetic on Valve's part.

This isn't a question of censorship, it's a question of quality control. Arguably, games are being sold there illegally already, given that some people can use a bunch of pre-existing assets, cobble them together, and call it a game. So when your shelves are overflowing with garbage, it becomes hard to find the games that are worthwhile. The ones that had actually effort put into them. Your paradigm of a store selling the Bible and The God Delusion doesn't work, because both of those books have gone through a traditional publishing process, and had quality control in their creation (yes, I know how the Bible was written, let's not go there). A better example would be your store overflowing with poorly made, poorly written books that are often plagerized, with only a few God Delusions/Bibles, that are hard to see because of all the crap floating around.

That said, I'm not overly concerned, because there's other avenues for publishing games besides Steam, even for indies. I'd rather Valve enforce some level of quality control, but as large as Steam is, it's not the be all and end all of digital publishing.