Poll: Ubisoft has never made a masterpiece

Trunkage

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I would never call a game a masterpiece. That's not how games work. I loved the old Dues Ex but I dont think I could play it now. I did play System Shock 2 last year and now think it's pretty bad. Just because it was a 'masterpiece' doesnt mean it can't lose that prestige

I would call Sleeping Dogs and Watch Dogs series far superior than GTA so I find it funny when people think they are masterpieces
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Bad Jim said:
Woah dude, there's no need for that.
Just pointing out facts. B-cell has an enormous problem with games that feature playable female characters. And on top of that Max Payne 2 is in third person. That's like his personal hell.
 

Johnny Novgorod

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I guess it boils down to your definition of 'masterpiece'. In terms of influential I would go for Prince of Persia: Sands of Time or Beyond Good & Evil. As for perfecting a formula, that's Far Cry 3 and either Assassin's Creed II or IV: Black Flag.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Adam Jensen said:
Bad Jim said:
Woah dude, there's no need for that.
Just pointing out facts. B-cell has an enormous problem with games that feature playable female characters. And on top of that Max Payne 2 is in third person. That's like his personal hell.
but I dont have any problem with Portal 2. infact i found it incredible game.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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B-Cell said:
but I dont have any problem with Portal 2
That's your example? Of course you don't have a problem with Portal. That's because the player is the real protagonist. Chell is nothing more than a 3D model that appears in a portal or a reflection. She's not an actual character with a real personality and thoughts. Even Gordon Freeman is more of a character than Chell.
 
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I gonna have to agree with B-Cell this time. I think Chaos Theory has enough stuff going on that could warrant it being called a masterpiece. Even though i remember the first Splinter Cell fondlier, i think "objectively" the third entry might be the pinnacle of the series.
I know Metal Gear likes to be held as example of THE best what stealth genre has to offer, and while i can't say it for myself, i know a guy whos super into stealth games and claims that when comes to mechanics, CT blows MGS out the water.

PoP the Sands of Time also had a great critical reception and is held dear by many people to this day. Though, again, i liked the other entry more.

Then there's first Far Cry, Beyond Good & Evil, Rayman, the other Tom Clancy games... oh right and Silent Hunter. Now i might be wrong, but Silent Hunter III might be a masterpiece when it comes to u-boot simulators.

Adam Jensen said:
B-Cell said:
original Max payne is masterpiece
It's an antiquated mess of half-baked ideas, lazy level design and bad cliche writing. Max Payne 2 was a colossal improvement.
Hey, i liked levels in the original. Atleast you didn't blew through them in mere minutes like in 2. And yeah, the story matured in "The Fall..." but i din't mind how pulpy it was in MP1(stupid underground drug lab be damned).
Also, frozen Noir York > rainy Noir York, but that's of course subjective.
 

Canadamus Prime

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Adam Jensen said:
Canadamus Prime said:
Can you give some examples of games that you do consider masterpieces?
Max Payne 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Half-Life and God of War have already been mentioned. I would also say The Witcher 3, Baldur's Gate 2, Diablo 2, Resident Evil 4, Shadow of the Colossus, Deus Ex (even though I enjoyed HR far, far more than the original), WarCraft 3, System Shock 2, Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite, Hitman Blood Money, GTA 3, Yakuza, Mass Effect 1, KoTOR and KoTOR 2, Portal, etc.
They're all masterpieces for different reasons but you should be able to tell why someone would consider these games to be masterpieces if you played through them.
Ok most of those I haven't played so I can't comment on them, but for the ones I have let's see:
God of War - fun game but I'd hardly call it a masterpiece.
Bioshock - Good game, neat twist, unremarkable gameplay
Bioshock Infinite - I'll maybe give you this one although the ending gave me a headache.
GTA3 - the only remarkable thing about this game is the fact that it's the first 3D GTA game. Otherwise it's fairly unremarkable.
Mass Effect - certainly had solid promise. Enjoyable for a couple of playthroughs.
KoTR - This one is certainly considered a classic, I would say it needed a better combat system and the final area can go to hell.
KoTR - Had a great deal of potential, too bad it was unrealized as the game was never properly finished.
Portal - Ok I'll give you that one.
 

Mikejames

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"Masterpiece" is obviously very subjective. I loved Prince of Persia, I loved Beyond Good and Evil, and I thought Far Cry 3 was probably the most fun I had with the modern Ubisoft style before it became a padded out and formulaic open-world formula.

And for all the flak that Assassin's Creed gets these days, I think the first two games came from a genuinely creative and memorable place. I just wish we could see modern Ubisoft experiment with their franchises more instead of milking the established formula dry and shooting themselves in the foot with microtransactions.

Dalisclock said:
Valiant Hearts: The Great War.

I still have to double check to verify it was actually made by Ubisoft and not some indie studio using ubisoft as a publisher, because it doesn't feel like the typical UBISOFT GAME [email protected] they churn out at a constant rate now.
Yeah, I thought smaller projects like Valiant Hearts and Child of Light were great little titles, but people don't really reference them when talking about modern Ubisoft because they feel like smaller passion projects as opposed to another recyclable sandbox franchise.
 

sXeth

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Mikejames said:
Yeah, I thought smaller projects like Valiant Hearts and Child of Light were great little titles, but people don't really reference them when talking about modern Ubisoft because they feel like smaller passion projects as opposed to another recyclable sandbox franchise.
They're still Ubisoft games, full on first party ones even.

If someone starts just picking and choosing which things they recognize on no particular logic like that, then well, EA is a generous benefactor and elevator of acquired studios. Since under their watch we got Dungeon Keeper 2, Mass Effect 2, the entirety of Dragon Age, Ultima 7, Underworld, and Online, etc.
 

Bad Jim

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Adam Jensen said:
B-Cell said:
but I dont have any problem with Portal 2
That's your example? Of course you don't have a problem with Portal. That's because the player is the real protagonist. Chell is nothing more than a 3D model that appears in a portal or a reflection. She's not an actual character with a real personality and thoughts. Even Gordon Freeman is more of a character than Chell.
In fairness, he seems to prefer the FPS genre, which is a barren wasteland for female protagonists. I'd have liked to hear him mention NOLF, but he could be forgiven for not playing proper female characters if he mostly plays FPS.
 

Mikejames

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Seth Carter said:
They're still Ubisoft games, full on first party ones even.

If someone starts just picking and choosing which things they recognize on no particular logic like that, then well, EA is a generous benefactor and elevator of acquired studios. Since under their watch we got Dungeon Keeper 2, Mass Effect 2, the entirety of Dragon Age, Ultima 7, Underworld, and Online, etc.
I wasn't saying that I agreed with excluding them from the Ubisoft line-up. Just that people seem quicker to forget them when discussing Ubisoft in general. Which is a shame, because I think projects like that honestly deserve more recognition than what's become of some of Ubisoft's bigger franchises as of late.
 

Squilookle

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Adam Jensen said:
For example, I adore Assassin's Creed 2 and I find it to be absolutely magical, but there's just something about it that feels too corporate driven preventing me from seeing it as a masterpiece.

Squilookle said:
...but by sheer virtue of it including that godawful DRM that was among the worst type ever conceived, which was never removed, it kinda gives it an instant disqualification.
Maybe that's it. Maybe if they put it on GoG one day I'll get to see it as a masterpiece. I'd like that.
I would like that too. AC2 deserves better than the morally bankrupt release Ubisoft gave it.

MrCalavera said:
oh right and Silent Hunter. Now i might be wrong, but Silent Hunter III might be a masterpiece when it comes to u-boot simulators.
I'd forgotten about that one- it definitely qualifies. SH4 to a lesser extent, but 3 is the gold standard.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Bad Jim said:
Adam Jensen said:
B-Cell said:
but I dont have any problem with Portal 2
That's your example? Of course you don't have a problem with Portal. That's because the player is the real protagonist. Chell is nothing more than a 3D model that appears in a portal or a reflection. She's not an actual character with a real personality and thoughts. Even Gordon Freeman is more of a character than Chell.
In fairness, he seems to prefer the FPS genre, which is a barren wasteland for female protagonists. I'd have liked to hear him mention NOLF, but he could be forgiven for not playing proper female characters if he mostly plays FPS.
didnot liked NOLF. it was highly overrated by PC gamers. its gunplay and AI both suck and level design is bland.

FEAR was best monolith game by far. that was masterpiece.
 

B-Cell_v1legacy

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Adam Jensen said:
Canadamus Prime said:
Can you give some examples of games that you do consider masterpieces?
Max Payne 2, Metal Gear Solid 3, Half-Life and God of War have already been mentioned. I would also say The Witcher 3, Baldur's Gate 2, Diablo 2, Resident Evil 4, Shadow of the Colossus, Deus Ex (even though I enjoyed HR far, far more than the original), WarCraft 3, System Shock 2, Bioshock and Bioshock Infinite, Hitman Blood Money, GTA 3, Yakuza, Mass Effect 1, KoTOR and KoTOR 2, Portal, etc.
They're all masterpieces for different reasons but you should be able to tell why someone would consider these games to be masterpieces if you played through them.
and heres my example of what i consider masterpieces

STALKER SOC and COP
Half life 1 and 2
Deus Ex 1 and HR
System Shock 2
Mafia 1
Max Payne 1
Splinter cell chaos Theory
FEAR 1
Doom (reboot)
Chronicles of Riddick Escape From Butcher Bay
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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B-Cell said:
and heres my example of what i consider masterpieces

STALKER SOC and COP
Half life 1 and 2
Deus Ex 1
System Shock 2
Mafia 1
FEAR 1
Doom (reboot)
Chronicles of Riddick Escape From Butcher Bay
I agree with these. I just took out Max Payne 1, Splinter Cell, Deus Ex Human Revolution.

Like I said, I enjoy Human Revolution far more than the original game, but the original was exceptional for its time, it pushed the boundaries of what video games can do at the time and it served as an inspiration to many developers and many games that came afterwards. And unlike HR it didn't contain freakin' ads for real life products that needed to be patched up.
 

Kyrian007

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I could agree, mostly because the use of the word "masterpiece" to me requires something really good, timeless, and something that could be trendsetting and an "instant classic." Something on the "greatest of all time" lists. I like several Ubisoft games... I just can't really think of one that is trendsetting or a timeless classic.
Pseudonym said:
Come to think of it, what about Far Cry 3. I wasn't a big fan (didn't hate it either, but I was a bit bored by it after a few hours) but a lot of people really liked it and it set an example for open worlds ways after it in a big way.
Maybe if it had lopped the second half of the game off and charged us half the price. Far Cry 3 was half a masterpiece; with half of a standard, boring, repetitive, average shooter stapled onto it.
 
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Prince of Persia: Sands of Time was undoubtedly a masterpiece. It was close to flawless in every way. The visuals were great and blended into gameplay perfectly. The gameplay was magnificent, challenging, fun and varied, very satisfying. Translating a 2D platformer into 3D can't have been easy, but the addition of the Dagger and the Sands of Time was brilliant and whoever came up with that is a bonafide genius. The sound (dialogue and music) were phenomenal, setting the tone of the game, immersing us and selling the characters....all two of them. I believe that it's phenomenal success is the reason Ubisoft went down the "parkour" route with all its games thereafter. I loved the framing device of the Prince's unreliable narration, the setting, the tone of each different zone, the time travel, the agility.

Another thing that bugs me is when people describe the flowing, freeform combat we now see more often as "like Arkham". Arkham-like combat, as in the Arkham games, Mad Max, Shadow of Mordor, Sleeping Dogs and others. It should be called "like Prince of Persia" because Sands of Time did it earlier and Arkham-combat was a copy of it.

PoP is a sublime, genre-defining, polished masterpiece that deserves a spot in any "...of all Time" lists. It is up there with BG2, Deus Ex, HL2 and other benchmark setting titles for their quality, attention to detail, superb execution and the obvious effect they had on the industry.

Seth Carter said:
See, the thing with this thread is you're not providing any actual qualifications. Not even so much as a list of games you do consider valid masterpieces by whatever arbitrary criteria you're using.
To be fair, it doesn't really need qualifying. It's pretty obvious when a game is a masterpiece. It often defines or showcases the best of a genre, it is a near flawless execution of a good idea, where each element (visuals, story, sound, gameplay mechanics, setting, etc) all come together to create a whole greater than the sum of the parts. While it may be subjective, the majority of people will agree the majority of the time on the games that qualify or at least on what qualities a masterpiece needs, and it doesn't need more explaining than that.
 

Hawki

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Adam Jensen said:
I know what some of you are thinking - Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time. But as someone who's never enjoyed a single game in that franchise I have to disagree.
No, not thinking that. Never understood SoT's popularity. I mean, it was fine, I enjoyed it, but "masterpiece?" Hardly. The original PoP is closer to being a masterpiece because at the least, it had a measurable influence in the cinematic platformer genre.

BTW, when I say masterpiece, to me that means a game that is original, that is obviously a labor of love and passion that it just can't help but get universal praise from critics and gamers and it ages well and is regarded as a must play title for years to come. And none of the games that came from Ubisoft ever truly felt like pure labors of love or at least like love and passion were the driving forces behind key design decisions.
That's incredibly subjective, but out of all the Ubisoft games I've played (which isn't many), closest would be Rayman 2. No idea if it holds up, but loved it at the time.

Adam Jensen said:
But the same can't be said for Prince of Persia. It is just a very competent third person puzzle platformer. And it is overshadowed entirely by God of War. Which is, IMO a real masterpiece.
Aren't they, like, completely different genres? One's a 3D puzzle platformer, the other is hack n' slash?

Edit: Also, fun fact - I looked at Ubisoft's list of games on Wikipedia, and to be honest, I don't really see that much evidence for this whole "all Ubisoft games are the same" idea. I mean, they've got obviously favoured franchises (e.g. Assassin's Creed and Far Cry), but there's a fair bit of variety in there.
 

sXeth

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KingsGambit said:
Seth Carter said:
See, the thing with this thread is you're not providing any actual qualifications. Not even so much as a list of games you do consider valid masterpieces by whatever arbitrary criteria you're using.
To be fair, it doesn't really need qualifying. It's pretty obvious when a game is a masterpiece. It often defines or showcases the best of a genre, it is a near flawless execution of a good idea, where each element (visuals, story, sound, gameplay mechanics, setting, etc) all come together to create a whole greater than the sum of the parts. While it may be subjective, the majority of people will agree the majority of the time on the games that qualify or at least on what qualities a masterpiece needs, and it doesn't need more explaining than that.
This entire thread and even your own post (which in itself is asserting a masterpiece that others obviously disagree with) would seem to contradict that logic.

Even the list he did reply back with has some very questionable entries (GTA3 (a game rapidly discarded n favor of Vice City/San Andreas even by people who like GTA) and KotoR2 (literally unfinished) being the glaring ones).