Poll: What should Final Fantasy do to drag itself from the muck?

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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With myself playing FFX for the first time in 8-9 years (short review: eh, it's alright I guess), Spoony's review of FFXIII that finished recently and the current situation of the franchise I got to thinking. With its currently quite tarnished reputation brought by FFXIII (XIII-2?) and XIV, what should the franchise do to return to its acclaimed juggernaut status it once held? I've played very little of the main entries in the series myself, but I'm quite interested in this, so that's why I'm asking you.

The options should be quite self-explanatory. By taking a new direction altogether I mean literally, almost moving to a whole new genre: think introducing a world which is fully open from the get-go like in TES, or changing the combat mechanics closer to something like Mass Effect: massive changes to the entire core concept.

So, thoughts on this?
 

BeeGeenie

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May 30, 2012
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They seem to be convinced that they need to make the series as cinematic and non-interactive as possible.
The FF developers need to learn that all the fancy graphical upgrades in the world won't make up for bad storytelling and boring game-play.

You'd think that the team who brought us "Spirits Within" would have learned that lesson. :p
 

Lilani

Sometimes known as CaitieLou
May 27, 2009
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Bring the quirkiness back, remember that a convoluted story ≠ an interesting story or engaging characters, and either completely own turn-based combat or just cash in and make a full-on combat engine, a la Kingdom Hearts.

Though I guess I should tack on a big disclaimer saying this is to suit my western sensibilities. From what I understand, Final Fantasy is more popular and critically acclaimed in Japan than ever. I don't know if that's just media hype and spinning or what, but as far as their Japanese audience Square Enix seems to be going in the right direction with Final Fantasy.
 

CannibalCorpses

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Aug 21, 2011
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I still like Final Fantasy...even the new ones, but the challenge is dropping off far too quickly nowadays. I vote for going back to what made the series famous...dodgy stories built around a good levelling system. The last 2 games have been too easy apart from the odd boss that basically cheats to kill you or cheats to stop you killing them.

I think there is room in the world for another bethesda style game with final fantasy written on it but i doubt it would appeal to enough people to make it financially viable. Mass Effect? *boggles* Not sure what that would entail but from the endless negative debates about Mass Effect i would suggest Final Fantasy keep well away from that shit storm.
 

soitgoes19

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Jul 8, 2012
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I chose going back to a classic style, but the truth is what they really need is an engaging story. Lilani is right, they've gotten wrapped up in a convoluted story with characters that vary from bland to annoying and that's what dragging them down. I'd prefer classic gameplay but they could try something entirely new and have it work. Classic gameplay is not a panacea that will save the series.
 

WhiteFangofWhoa

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Jan 11, 2008
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What BeeGenie said. For whatever reason Eastern audiences are much more into a hands-off visual novel style of approach (Metal Gear, Phoenix Wright, a bunch of other visual novels that never came out here including H-games...) and don't mind the strange character aesthetics either. Even if it's become the gaming equivalent of the Star Wars prequel trilogy prizing amazing visuals over all else, why would they spurn their most loyal audience by changing things beyond the battle system?

Among other problems I feel like the standard strategies and spells have been repeated enough by now to become stale. There's always a (<-----)barrier change boss, a countdown boss, a poison-using boss, and you always end up dealing with them the same way. While I would like to see a return to FF5/6/7 style with graphical fidelity sacrificed for length and depth, that won't happen with the main series. Instead, a spinoff series could be what is needed to appeal to Western audiences once more, playing both sides of the map. On the 3DS, preferably- there was a time when its parent was viewed as a mecca for quality 2D games.
 

Glaice

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Mar 18, 2013
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Going back to actual turned based combat and not this wonky automated fighting system.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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CannibalCorpses said:
I still like Final Fantasy...even the new ones, but the challenge is dropping off far too quickly nowadays. I vote for going back to what made the series famous...dodgy stories built around a good levelling system. The last 2 games have been too easy apart from the odd boss that basically cheats to kill you or cheats to stop you killing them.

I think there is room in the world for another bethesda style game with final fantasy written on it but i doubt it would appeal to enough people to make it financially viable. Mass Effect? *boggles* Not sure what that would entail but from the endless negative debates about Mass Effect i would suggest Final Fantasy keep well away from that shit storm.
'
I agree on the convoluted story (as much as I can with my amount of experience anyway). From what I've understood, the codex in FFXIII was basically the antithesis of the codex from, say, Mass Effect: it wasn't there for the interested players to make the world have more depth, it was necessary for the player to read to make sense of anything in the first place.

And with the overwhelming linearity of recent installments I kind of have the feeling that the dev team makes a huge effort to create vast new worlds and then forces the player down a linear corridor just to make that they can't possibly miss any parts that they made.
 

purplecactus

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Jun 25, 2012
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You know, I quite liked XIII (though the sequel was... let's not go there), although it was really not as challenging as I would have liked it to be. I've only played about four or five games out of the entire series, and I've liked them well enough, they at least had more of a challenge to them.

I reckon they should keep on with the way they're going, experimenting with new things. And hey, it's doing awesomely in Japan, so something's been done right as far as that goes.
 

Vern5

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Mar 3, 2011
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It should DIE.

It should fall into the muck, choke on the pollution of its own stagnation, and expire completely.

All Final Fantasy deserves is one last game that functions as an affectionate callback to all of its predecessors. Not one of those stupid crossovers but something with an actual soul to its development. It should remind all of the fans of how far the series has come, echo the former glory of its most spectacular moments, lampshade its faults, and go out on a high note. It will be the developers love note to the fandom.

And then Final Fantasy should die. No more sequels. No more spinoffs. Merchandise is fine but the games need to stop.
 

roushutsu

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Mar 14, 2012
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I do feel that it needs to return to its roots, but that won't happen as long as they keep milking the XIII series. I'm all for new concepts and innovation with each title, but the directions they've been taking with XIII seems to be causing them a lot of problems and yet they want to keep churning shit out with it. I'm aware that XIII is well-received in Japan compared to the west, but you can't ignore the fact that Square's been under financial stress this generation (or should I say past generation now?) and XIII's global reception didn't exactly help things.
 
Jan 1, 2013
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I have thought for a long time that they should stop changing the game play every instalment. Final Fantasy has a main series and several spin-offs. Why not dedicate each one to a style of play?
As an example, I'll use Final Fantasy 12. I liked it and I liked its combat system. However, Final Fantasy doesn't give me any more games with that style and it also doesn't allow the same exploration that 12 did with FF13. So I drop out of the series.
In numbers 4 through 9, we had the same battle system, the same exploration mode, the dialogue was delivered with text boxes. Based on that foundation, they managed to build very different worlds and tell good, unique stories. Afterwards they kept reinventing the series with every new game, getting new fans into the series then losing them in the following instalment.
In my opinion, they should have a main numbered series of turn-based RPGs that would receive a new instalment every four years or so, have a new Tactics game every four years, have a spin-off series dedicated to real-time combat (it's called Seiken Densetsu), etc. This way, everyone can get their fix every once in a while.
 

McMarbles

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May 7, 2009
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Final Fantasy needs to look at what made the old games great, and what's making the new games terrible, and for god's sake stop shoving Lightning down our throat, nobody likes her and you can't make us!

FFXV should be a retro-style game for 3DS and Vita. They might actually make some money that way.
 

Genocidicles

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Sep 13, 2012
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1)Bring back the world map.

It made every game before X feel much bigger, and the sense of exploration was great. Give us different vehicles throughout the game to traverse the map, some hidden secrets and it's great,

2)Get rid of the voice acting.

I've hated every single Final Fantasy since they added voice acting. They have to ruin every game with a character (or even multiple characters) who has the most annoying voice. Tidus, Wakka, Vaan, Vanille. I hated all of them, and yet I think I would've maybe even liked some of them if I was just able to read what they were saying instead of hearing it.

3)A combat system where the player actually has control. So anything besides whatever piece of shit we got in XIII.
 

bartholen_v1legacy

A dyslexic man walks into a bra.
Jan 24, 2009
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Genocidicles said:
1)Bring back the world map.

It made every game before X feel much bigger, and the sense of exploration was great. Give us different vehicles throughout the game to traverse the map, some hidden secrets and it's great,

2)Get rid of the voice acting.

I've hated every single Final Fantasy since they added voice acting. They have to ruin every game with a character (or even multiple characters) who has the most annoying voice. Tidus, Wakka, Vaan, Vanille. I hated all of them, and yet I think I would've maybe even liked some of them if I was just able to read what they were saying instead of hearing it.
Big yes on the world map, since it's practically taken for granted in RPGs. FFX sort of has one (you see it between chapters), but since there's no use for it, it's completely pointless. All the locations are completely disjointed pocket dimensions of their own.

And on the voice acting, think how shocked I was to find out that it was JOHN DI-FUCKING-MAGGIO who voiced Wakka, the most annoying character in the game right after Tidus. I mean Jesus, he's voiced Bender and The Joker, but his acting in FFX is just as awful as everyone else's
 

Maximum Bert

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Feb 3, 2013
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The franchise has always been all over the place they just need to keep experimenting and mixing things up the more the better in my opinion sometimes it works and we get great games like 4,6,7 and 10 (for me anyway) and other times we get abominations like 2 and 12.

While I got some enjoyment out of XIII it wasnt great but then neither was 1,3,5 or 9 imo while 8 was fun ish but not amazing and it had some annoying decisions in it.

Everyone has there favourites though which shows just how divisive the series is anyway they need to keep switching it up to stay fresh, idea works great move on, fails move on.

They have kept with the XIII universe too long they need a new world once they stand still the franchise will die imo. If you want a heavily traditional franchise with miniscule alterations there is Dragon Quest it has some good entries but it scratches a different need to the FF brand.
 

BeeGeenie

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May 30, 2012
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bartholen said:
And on the voice acting, think how shocked I was to find out that it was JOHN DI-FUCKING-MAGGIO who voiced Wakka, the most annoying character in the game right after Tidus. I mean Jesus, he's voiced Bender and The Joker, but his acting in FFX is just as awful as everyone else's
O.O Wow, I had no idea.
I can imagine how the recording sessions went: "That was great John, but could you make it sound even dumber? Make sure he sounds like he's had a few too many blows to the head. Major brain damage, okay? Also, the accent isn't quite ridiculous enough, so can you take it over the top?"
 

Innegativeion

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Feb 18, 2011
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Vern5 said:
It should DIE.

It should fall into the muck, choke on the pollution of its own stagnation, and expire completely.

All Final Fantasy deserves is one last game that functions as an affectionate callback to all of its predecessors. Not one of those stupid crossovers but something with an actual soul to its development. It should remind all of the fans of how far the series has come, echo the former glory of its most spectacular moments, lampshade its faults, and go out on a high note. It will be the developers love note to the fandom.

And then Final Fantasy should die. No more sequels. No more spinoffs. Merchandise is fine but the games need to stop.
Never going to happen.

"Final Fantasy" isn't so much as a franchise as it is just a brand used to make any JRPG Square makes have more marketing value, due to it being easily recognizable. They could literally but the labeling on anything they make in the genre. Just put in chocobos afterward. There are bunches of completely unrelated, different games all under the "Final Fantasy" umbrella.

For this reason, I find "it should die" to be a totally silly poll option.
 

Vern5

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Mar 3, 2011
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Innegativeion said:
Vern5 said:
It should DIE.

It should fall into the muck, choke on the pollution of its own stagnation, and expire completely.

All Final Fantasy deserves is one last game that functions as an affectionate callback to all of its predecessors. Not one of those stupid crossovers but something with an actual soul to its development. It should remind all of the fans of how far the series has come, echo the former glory of its most spectacular moments, lampshade its faults, and go out on a high note. It will be the developers love note to the fandom.

And then Final Fantasy should die. No more sequels. No more spinoffs. Merchandise is fine but the games need to stop.
Never going to happen.

"Final Fantasy" isn't so much as a franchise as it is just a brand used to make any JRPG Square makes have more marketing value, due to it being easily recognizable. They could literally but the labeling on anything they make in the genre. Just put in chocobos afterward. There are bunches of completely unrelated, different games all under the "Final Fantasy" umbrella.

For this reason, I find "it should die" to be a totally silly poll option.
It works as a poll option due to the inclusion of "should". Final Fantasy should die. Yes, it's highly unrealistic to expect such a happy day filled with new IP and progression to just come along without any provocation. But, god damnit, it's something to hope for.
 

FangStiltzskin

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Apr 13, 2013
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If anything they should just work on their stories more. I don't mind gameplay experiments; that's totally fine for me at least (though I'm a big fan of turn-based ala FFX or PS2 era SMTs). But when I get something like XIII where I can't follow the story at all, then there's something wrong here. I lose interest. They need someone who can just write the best damn story they can write for a video game, because the main reason people loved JRPGs in the first place were for the stories, not the graphics. Without a good story to follow, why should I play? I could easily read a good book to get my daily dose... maybe it won't be shiny, but it's well written. FF was one of the big firsts of its time; it deserves better treatment to its core.

Give us a story that doesn't need a whole encyclopedia to understand. And better characterization; a good plot is made by good characters. Do that and maybe I'll have hope again.

Just to to be clear, FFXIII could've had the best story ever. But the real issue is presentation. The older FFs, while not as complex, were far more coherent and streamlined in their storytelling. You could follow the plot. That's the first step they could take to getting better again.