Poll: Which is Worse (for Female Characters): Appearance or Actions/Behaviour/Role?

Mikeyfell

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Aug 24, 2010
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Playful Pony said:
Also it makes me a bit comfortable that she kinda looks... Ten.
Whoops

I've said this before in defense of this game (As a joke mind you) Where is everyone finding all the sexy 10 year olds?
I've never seen a sexy 10 year old in my life and yet everyone who talks about RoAW seems to trip over them everywhere they go.
Which is a joke, Well I guess the statement its self is true but it's not meant to be taken seriously by any means.

And she's wearing way more than the average bikini. Less than the average 1 piece bathing suit, but... uh, I feel like I'm digging my self into a hole at this point.

The point I'm failing to make is that when get a good well rounded character you shouldn't let any amount of visible skin diminish the impact they have on you or the story

unless the way they dress contradicts their personality.
but it should also be considered that the way a character dresses can and does say a lot about that character. If she is supposed to be restrained, shy and private you would expect her clothing to reflect that.
Just like the thing that you said
 

Playful Pony

Clop clop!
Sep 11, 2012
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Mikeyfell said:
Playful Pony said:
Also it makes me a bit comfortable that she kinda looks... Ten.
Whoops
Ohw dear, nice catch =3

Fixed...

Mikeyfell said:
And she's wearing way more than the average bikini. Less than the average 1 piece bathing suit, but... uh, I feel like I'm digging my self into a hole at this point.

The point I'm failing to make is that when get a good well rounded character you shouldn't let any amount of visible skin diminish the impact they have on you or the story

unless the way they dress contradicts their personality.
but it should also be considered that the way a character dresses can and does say a lot about that character. If she is supposed to be restrained, shy and private you would expect her clothing to reflect that.
Just like the thing that you said
Fair enough, there is a bit more than a bikini... Boots and long gloves for example. I'd like to be able to see past a characters clothing and physique and just judge their personality on its own, but like most people I see someone before I hear and learn about them. Seems like we're basically on the same page here. For the record I have no idea who that character is, she might be great. I just see a very overly sexualized young girl though.
 

EyeReaper

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Aug 17, 2011
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Well, In the words of Dhim, "Sexy does not equal Sexist."
Just because a character show a lot of skin does not inherently make her a bad role model, nor does it make her a worse character. A fanservice character is not bad because she walks around in a bikini, she's bad because she's written into the story solely as fanservice to begin with. Which is, what I think at least, the meat of the problem with most of the more provocatively dressed ladies of fiction.

Basically what I'm saying is, If a character dresses skimpy, but is still a well written, fleshed out character, It;s hundreds of times better than a more conservatively dressed token there just to be "the chick."
 

Mister Chippy

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Jun 12, 2013
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Can I say that they both fucking suck? I feel like having to pick one over the other is similar to saying the other one is less shitty and that's just not true.
 

EeveeElectro

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Aug 3, 2008
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If a female is well written I can get past most fan service they force them to perform.
I'll use Fairy Tail as an example because I was watching it last night. Erza is an awesome character who kicks arse and is a good example of a strong female. She's "whored" out a fair amount, but not as much as other female characters, but she still maintains this great character with marginally less panty shots and bouncing boobs all over the screen.

The females in the works of Joss Whedon are pretty fantastic. If said women were half naked I wouldn't really care because showcasing your body whilst being a well written, strong example of femininity is better than being a hallowed out puppet with tits.

If they turn well written female into a shell of her former self and a fan service machine, that pisses me off.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

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Nov 28, 2010
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I do not like the phrasing of the question here. They are both bad - you're asking which is worse, which is an acknowledgement that they are, in fact, both bad. What possible good could it serve to identify which of the two bad things are worse? The question is also forced to reduce both sides to their simple, generic, most basic vagueness.

Do I think more females need to be in main or important roles? Yes.

Do I think dressing females up like sex objects is something that should stop or be less obvious? Yes.

Do I think more females need to be in main or important roles even if they are dressed like sex objects? ? well, that's tricky, isn't it?

Would I feel better if the females dressed as sex objects were in lesser roles, and therefore receive less attention in the story? ? again - not really what I'm hoping to see either.

What I would like to see is females in more primary roles dressed less like sex objects. Your question is forcing me to compromise one or the other parts of that statement.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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I think it's the actions that matter more but the only thing that annoys me is when people says because actions matter more this female character is a "strong female character" (don't get me started on what's wrong with that term) regardless of their look or other factors, for example I have seen people try to argue this for the woman of dead or alive. I'm not saying you can't find the woman of Doa empowering that's fine but to argue that they are positive portrayals of females is another thing entirely, yes they have positives but being able to beat things up makes you a "strong female" character not a strong female character. I refuse to agree that OneCahnbara: Bikini Zombie Slayer is a positive portrayal of woman simply because she is powerful and capable. Also depends it's what you mean by actions if you mean she got captured for like 1 mission but other than that she is a modestly dressed female character that's strong then I would rather have her then a sexed up bikini sniper who never needs help from no man.

Although their are some woman who like princess peach even though most of the time she is a damsel, some female gamers dislike heavy male gaze characters like the old lara croft but like bayonetta because they say it fits the characters, some say it depends on how sexed up the female character saying theirs a difference between a low cut top and bikini amour, some said that the amazon from dragons crown was female power fantasy because of her muscular body type, some like the sexy I saw a female gamer saying she thought the sorceress was gorgeous, some say if the game is realistic than sexed up is bad but if it's a silly game then sexed up is ok, some say if the males are sexed up as well it's ok and lastly some woman don't care ether way they just care if she looks cool.

What I think is female gamers aren't a hive minds and they all have different opinions so to some looks will matter more than others and actions to will matter to some more then others, I like its that way because if all woman were then same when it came to sexed up or helpless female characters it would be kind of boring variety is the spice of life after all.
 

DRTJR

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Aug 7, 2009
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geK0 said:
Dragon Age:
You've got a few powerful spellcasters and a bisexual thief. Morrigan is probably the most useful of all your characters.

none of them are front liners though, barring Morrigan in her animal forms : \
In DA:O you can make Wynne(The old grandma of the team) into medieval Robocop by making her an arcane warrior.

In DA:A Velanna can also crush sculls under her mighty booted heals, as well as Sigrun who is your melee thief

In DA:2 you have Aveline who has been reportedly been able to carry cows as well as a powerful tank that can shrug off boulders to the face. Isebela who is your classic Melee DPS unit. Merril Is very good at the crowd controlling aspects
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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All though I feel that it's unfair that a lot of the time female gamers are expected to put up with the majority of females going around in next to nothing and to stop bitching about it, when if the genders were reversed and the majority of video games we're like Free! with lots of female fan service then you would hear my fellow male gamers complain all the time about near naked men.

Lastly although I have voted actions I feel characters should be looked at on an individual basses. Seeing as certain actions appeal to different people just like appearances.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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All though I feel that it's unfair that a lot of the time female gamers are expected to put up with the majority of females going around in next to nothing and to stop bitching about it, when if the genders were reversed and the majority of video games we're like Free! with lots of female fan service then you would hear my fellow male gamers complain all the time about near naked men.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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DANEgerous said:
Actions/Behavior/Role by light years. having all women look hyper sexualised is bad I get it but the fact is unless you are talking about ads most are not. No doubt they are more so them men yes fantasy armor is often stupidly slutty but are there mainly just attractive well dressed women? Yeah. Attractive women but then again a lot of attractive women exist in the real world and to call them oppressive is just stupid. Now I get that women in games are designed and scripted and all those things people are not but still a hot women in power is hardly sexist while any woman ugly or drop dead gorgeous used for motives that make them an object is. Some women will willingly and gladly put on skimpy and in the Anita Sarkeesian veil of feminism are sexist just because they want to even Anita Sarkeesian does it to an extent is kind of stupid not to when in the public eye. Women and men alike want to be attractive, no one wants to be a slave, no one wants their action controlled. In the end even the objections to appearance come to people want me to dress or be as thin as (X) and at their core involve changing how you act as a person you want to dress this way but that is not traditionally attractive so you don't you think women in media look to damn thin on average so you adjust you actions to be thinner. Actions are not only louder than words they are louder than appearance.
1st) Their is a differences between attractive and hyper sexualised, you don't see woman complain about chun-li but cammy on the the other is sexist because they hypersexualised her by having their ass hang out.
2nd) No feminist or a least the majority of feminist have never said that attractive woman are oppressive this is a straw man.
3rd) Also you can't compare a real life woman to fictional beings that is what a we call a false equivalency, you might as well say it's ok to have my females be weak and helpless because their are woman in real life who are weak and helpless. A real life woman Chooses! to wear sexy clothing so it is fine, a character has her clothing chosen for her that's why it's sexist.
4th) No Anita's type of feminism which I think you don't know much about does not care much what woman wear( unless it's Miley Cyrus ) because they respect living womans agency, you have no evidence to suggest that anita thinks real woman should cover up, while she does have a problem with fictional woman who have no true agency of their Owen.
5) lastly once it does not matter what real life people want because we are not talking about real people.

I think you need to educate your self on what feminism really is and not what you think it is.
 

Paragon Fury

The Loud Shadow
Jan 23, 2009
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Mikeyfell said:
144 said:
Mikeyfell said:
But if I meet a smart, cautious, sympathetic strong woman like
I'm not going to be like "Oh, she's wearing a belt around her tits instead of a shirt, fuck her."
First of all, I should hope not, considering she's probably underage and that would be inappropriate.

Second, you'll never meet a smart, cautious, sympathetic strong woman like her, because that's not an appropriate dress code in the real world, and smart, cautious, sympathetic strong women dress in a way that doesn't make people think poorly of them.
First she's actually 86 years old, so she's totally legal. (Hurray Syrium lifespans!)

Second that question is the point of the thread, do you judge based on looks or actions, there's room enough in the world for both sides of the argument. And besides she's a rouge type character it wouldn't make sense for her to wear anything bulkier, would it?
Oh, I remember those games. There were fun. Fyuria isn't as much "looks-like-jail-bait-but-really-isn't" as that one girl from RoAW Zero though. Don't know about 2 though because I never got to play it.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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Darth Rosenberg said:
Coakle said:
A character in a skimpy outfit, on the other hand, tends to send a specific message. No matter your ideals, bravery, or competence people will leer at you and the key to achieving your goals is to accept this.
This doesn't make much sense to me at all. Surely an idealistic, brave and competent person knows that a key to achieving their goals is to not give a toss what anyone thinks of how they express themselves?

No this is not true at all for example captan America cares how his soldiers perceive him, he wants them to see him as a hero someone who can lead.

Or for a more silly example not caring what people think of you after having not taken a bath for a month is not key to that.

Lastly if you want people to see you as a hero you can't go killing innocent civilians so yes how people think of you does matter to some characters.
 

JimB

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Apr 1, 2012
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shamil400 said:
If you want people to see you as a hero, you can't go killing innocent civilians; so yes, how people think of you does matter to some characters.
If the reason you're not murdering people is because you want to dictate the mental image others have of you, then you are not a hero. Similarly, if the reason a female character dresses conservatively is because of what she wants others to think about her, then she is not confident in her sexuality, and is in fact a good sign of insecurity.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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JimB said:
shamil400 said:
If you want people to see you as a hero, you can't go killing innocent civilians; so yes, how people think of you does matter to some characters.
If the reason you're not murdering people is because you want to dictate the mental image others have of you, then you are not a hero. Similarly, if the reason a female character dresses conservatively is because of what she wants others to think about her, then she is not confident in her sexuality, and is in fact a good sign of insecurity.
Yes true if you just doing it for what others think of you then your more of a villain than hero but what I meant is a characters that already believes in not killing people and wants to lead like minded people because they all believe that is the right thing to do

Secondly I strongly disagree on that 2nd point woman can be comfortable with their sexuality in others ways that by going around in next to nothing for example actually having sex, this is why Jodie fosters from beyond two souls is a good female characters because she shows a genie expression of sexuality. Unlike bayonetta who looks and acts that way to be appealing to men.

Also no it does not mean she is insecure would you say a woman who does not want to go around looking like Miley Cyrus is insure about their sexuality ? No it's she just doesn't want to look silly.
Or would you say that a woman who doesn't want to wear make up because she thinks it looks trashy ? No it's because nether of theses things are aprt of their sexuality just like how some woman don't like giving blow jobs, different people are comfortable with different things.

Although if the reason she didn't want to is because she believes woman as a whole should not dress that way then yes I would I agree their is some serious insecurity going on their, but if it is her personal choice then it's completely fine just like how she would not want to go around in a clown outfit or with messy hair because it would be silliy.
 

JimB

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Apr 1, 2012
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shamil400 said:
I'm just saying, there is a difference between someone who says, "This is how I feel about my sexuality," and, "This is what I want you to think about my sexuality." A secure person is more likely to say the first thing, because her self-expression is about herself, as it ought to be. A person who says the second thing is not talking about herself; she's talking about everyone else. At best, she's trying to manipulate some situation, but more likely she's overcompensating for something.
 

shamil400

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Oct 18, 2009
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JimB said:
shamil400 said:
I'm just saying, there is a difference between someone who says, "This is how I feel about my sexuality," and, "This is what I want you to think about my sexuality." A secure person is more likely to say the first thing, because her self-expression is about herself, as it ought to be. A person who says the second thing is not talking about herself; she's talking about everyone else. At best, she's trying to manipulate some situation, but more likely she's overcompensating for something.
Ooooooooooo ok :) silly me I see what what your talking about yeah I completely agree I thought you meant any woman who does not want to go around wearing ass bearing shorts is insecure my bad.
 

Icehearted

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Jul 14, 2009
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Acting without agency or sense. Seriously, women dress skimpily of their own accord ALL THE TIME! It's the assholes and morons, regardless of your genitals, that make us cross. Won't lie though, good looks can help, especially if in conveyance of a narrative that supports that the character is good looking for some reason. A pretty villain will, for example, typically be a different kind of villain than an ugly old hag.

Not that it's very original, mind you.

Interestingly, there are vastly more male characters that fall victim to this than females, if for no reason other than the pool from which we can draw these examples are still largely male dominated (ex: comic book heroes mostly highly idealized men in festive skin-tight clothing).