Are you saying that you are rationally calculating the possibility of someone in danger having higher-than-average value, and at the same time utterly emotionally and irrationally ignoring it for a lower mammal you're attached to?Buchholz101 said:However, I personally could never live with the guilt knowing that I let another human being with family, friends, a significant other, a job where they provide value to others, hopes, and dreams die for an animal that is barely self-aware and mainly exists to make me happy and entertain me.
You said that for all we know, you could be a total loner. We don't know if you have friends or family, we don't know anything.
Hitler ALMOST died in World War One, y'know? The odds of you being the next Messiah are just as low, if not lower, than you being a madman.
We know absolutely nothing.
Lack of empathy? No, I just care about them more.Brawndo said:EDIT:
These poll results are hardly surprising; a similar question was posed by another user on a forum I frequent and most people were more than happy to let that OP die, even kill and torture him, over their dog or cat. There is a serious lack of empathy in the modern world.
Even as a pet owner myself (I have a cat), I feel that people who put the lives of animals they own over other human beings are SELFISH. Selfish because their pets love them unconditionally and provide companionship, and they don't want to give this source of happiness up, while many people don't get along well with other humans. However, I personally could never live with the guilt knowing that I let another human being with family, friends, a significant other, a job where they provide value to others, hopes, and dreams die for an animal that is barely self-aware and mainly exists to make me happy and entertain me.
It would pain me to do so, but I would kill my cat myself so that any one of you may live.
A kitten? You barely even know him. For all you know he's an arsonist! Then again, looking at your avatar, maybe that's a plus for you.Divine Miss Bee said:selfish or not, nobody gets between me and my kitten. love is love, and i'd sleep just fine (cuddling my baby) knowing that i sacrificed a stranger's life to save him.
I am not just putting a value on intelligence here, I am also pointing to achievements, real accomplishments and potential to prove my point on the superiority of humans, and why it is moral and right to choose the stranger (but it would be a damn hard choice to make). Yes these are the best human traits and point to its superiority. We could also start to argue for a human over a pet in the interest of the public good. Back to the question, choosing an animal's life over a human life is to be swayed by emotions (powerful impulses to be sure) but not to make the best choice or the most moral choice. A dog could be a great dog to its owner and some people that really like it, i.e. a really trusted companion. A human could give happiness to many people over the years (like family or lovers over the years) and help out multiple lives through personal achievement or application (the arts, or engineering as illustrated above or science or teaching to name a few areas). Humans don't always live up to their potential or cease to be selfish, but animals can also be rabid, lazy or a nuisance.Maze1125 said:Yes, well done, that rambling paragraph just showed that humans are, as a whole, the most intelligent species on the planet.I say old chap said:To the people that argue animals are equal or superior, I've heard this before and I'll put it this way. What beagle has built or steadily filled a library with literature and science over generations? What canary has opened a shop to sell goods and make the lives of other canaries (or people) better? A cheetah is fast (although not a typical pet by any stretch) but does it catch violent criminals in a society, or does it run into burning buildings and carry out the helpless or injured? Some animals have languages as identified, but have they developed or used telecommunications? Animals can eat, but can they cook and present a fine meal (a croc leaving a corpse to rot under a log does not count, lol). Various types of monkeys can be intelligent, but have they ever written a screenplay, novel or persuasive essay? Ants are industrious (some of the time) to our perceptions, and cultivate fungus, but do they plant and nurture varied crops of wheat, fruits and a variety of vegetables? Pack animals bully or follow but have they ever created and institutionalised something like the code of Hammurabi or any code of jurisprudence? Lizards bask on hot rocks, but have they ever used solar power for their benefit, and so they didn't have to go outside and be vulnerable to predators? Animals can sometimes heal injuries and some are better at this than others, but has any non-human animal species ever developed medicine and acted to improve and refine its treatments?
The superiority of humans is plain if you move beyond emotion swaying your opinion and examine history and multiple human civilisations. I'm a sociologist, so this is somewhat my area.
But so what? That doesn't mean anything unless you choose to value that intelligence.
We, as humans, of course choose to value intelligence, because we pick the attribute that defines our species over any other. But that is nothing more than a biased opinion of a species wanting itself to be the best.
Nothing in that makes intelligence more moral, or more worthy of life. We, as humans, like valuing humans. But so damn what?
lol. he's almost a year old, but he's still my baby. cats are all personality-they never hide anything.Ghengis John said:A kitten? You barely even know him. For all you know he's an arsonist! Then again, looking at your avatar, maybe that's a plus for you.Divine Miss Bee said:selfish or not, nobody gets between me and my kitten. love is love, and i'd sleep just fine (cuddling my baby) knowing that i sacrificed a stranger's life to save him.
This thread is very sad. So many selfish, short sighted people. Who consider themselves moral no less. Depressing.
No, that would not mean you are one. That means you care more about your animalbro. You are misusing the word. Please read this to avoid that in the future.Treeinthewoods said:If you really were in this situation and you really would choose the pet it means you are what is referred to as a sociopath and removing you from society would be beneficial.
Yeah well sorry, I didn't mean to make you the example but I still find it depressing. I've seen a lot of the people in this thread decrying man's inhumanity towards man or some social injustice at some point and yet then I see they personally profess they would let a person die for their pet.Divine Miss Bee said:lol. he's almost a year old, but he's still my baby. cats are all personality-they never hide anything.Ghengis John said:A kitten? You barely even know him. For all you know he's an arsonist! Then again, looking at your avatar, maybe that's a plus for you.Divine Miss Bee said:selfish or not, nobody gets between me and my kitten. love is love, and i'd sleep just fine (cuddling my baby) knowing that i sacrificed a stranger's life to save him.
This thread is very sad. So many selfish, short sighted people. Who consider themselves moral no less. Depressing.
and i don't consider myself moral by any means. i have my own moral code, which i follow without fail, but it doesn't quite match society.
man's inhumanity towards man is human nature. no sense whinging about it. there are great things about being human, and there are awful things. i like to focus on the good, and leave the world alone to do its mess in peace.Ghengis John said:Yeah well sorry, I didn't mean to make you the example but I still find it depressing. I've seen a lot of the people in this thread decrying man's inhumanity towards man or some social injustice at some point and yet then I see they personally profess they would let a person die for their pet.Divine Miss Bee said:lol. he's almost a year old, but he's still my baby. cats are all personality-they never hide anything.Ghengis John said:A kitten? You barely even know him. For all you know he's an arsonist! Then again, looking at your avatar, maybe that's a plus for you.Divine Miss Bee said:selfish or not, nobody gets between me and my kitten. love is love, and i'd sleep just fine (cuddling my baby) knowing that i sacrificed a stranger's life to save him.
This thread is very sad. So many selfish, short sighted people. Who consider themselves moral no less. Depressing.
and i don't consider myself moral by any means. i have my own moral code, which i follow without fail, but it doesn't quite match society.
This. I'd bawl and have nightmares for years, but I'd do it.andreas3K said:If I had any pets, I would kill them myself if that's what it took to save a person's life.