Poll: Who's excited for the new Christopher Paolini book then? [Discussion may contain spoilers]

Rathands

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Nah. I really liked the first when I read it but then I got halfway through the second and thought, 'I've read this "gets hurt, starts recovering BUT OH NO MINOR SETBACK, back to square one, repeat for far too many chapters" kind of plot arc before' - I saw it first in the Farseer Trilogy and it was dull then. Still can't bring myself to try and tackle that book again because of how boring those chapters were.
 

spartan231490

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Bobbity said:
spartan231490 said:
And Christopher Paolini compares himself to geniuses of their art by his age and success, I merely pointed it out. He is a good writer. Is he the best? No. But he is well and above most writers. As I said, many people agree with me on that, people whose opinions I respect far more than yours, or anyone else's on the internet.
Writing ability is not fact. "good" writing has changed before, and it will change again. Good writing used to be long, and flowery, and overly extensive. Good writing now is concise and short, but effective. That is just one of many examples. Hell, good writing is a matter of debate and opinion, not fact.

And I don't care anymore. Christopher Paolini is a good writer, nothing you can say will change my opinion on that. Why don't we agree to disagree.
What if I were to tell you that not a single thing in Paolini's books is original, and that if you were to read such things as the Belgariad, the Wheel of Time, A song of Ice and Fire, The Lord of the Rings, A Wizard of Earthsea, the earlier Raymond Feist stuff, or even Terry Pratchett, you realise how utterly unoriginal he is? What if I recommended that you read those books - good fantasy; well written fantasy - in case they change your perception of Paolini?

Would you be willing to read some fantasy that comes recommended by the greater community of this website, and then tell us if your perception has been at all altered?
I've read Wheel of Time, and LoTR, I've watched Star Wars, I've read half of A Song of Ice and Fire. I may have read Terry Pratchet, the name is very familiar, maybe they're just on my to read list. I see the similarities, but I also see the similarities between all of those things. I think all of them are original, including Paolini. I've gone to the websites explaining why his work is a complete copy, and I disagree.
I like how you just assume I've never read good fantasy. I've read more fantasy than I can count, most of it considered to be "good fantasy" and it didn't change my opinion on Paolini. Unsurprising, since I read several of those "good fantasy" series, before I read Paolini.
I read the Night Angel trilogy by Brent Weeks based on recommendations from this website, as well as song of Ice and Fire, although my friends also recommended that one. I must say, thank you. I've read dozens of good fantasies. I've read a double fist-full of the classics too. I still think Paolini is a good author.
rollerfox88 said:
Only got published because his parents are the publishers. I have read the first two, and it seemed very generic...still, at least the books arent as bad as the film version of Eragon...
Actually, the self-publish from his parents never went very far, only a small portion of Montana. He got big-time published because another author found his book, thought it was good, and sent it to his own publishing company.
randomrob said:
I've read them, and I don't like how all Paolini has done is take the plot of the original Star Wars trilogy and mix it up with the Lord of the Rings and The Dragon Riders of Pern series. Look at the plot of Eragon and Eldest: Farm Boy discovers he has the potential to join an ancient monaistic order, he is trained in this by a mysterious old man who later dies. He then gos to a forest location and is trained by a physically unassuming member of that ancient order. He uses his fathers old weapon, which he then loses in a battle with a dark warrior who serves the emperor and he discovers he is related to. See the similarities? Paolini is just a nerd who can rearrange what he has read/watched into something readable.
Let's boil it down further: Weak youth gains power and accomplishes great things. Hey look, it's every high fantasy ever written, they must all be rip-offs. You can't claim it's a rip-off just by boiling it down until it matches another story. btw, before you link me, there are many sites that actually raise good arguments for his work being a copy, and I disagree point by point.
 

Something Amyss

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Other: The last three books have progressively killed my interest. I started relatively strong, but book two was less interesting and by 3, I had trouble giving a damn.

I think I'll pass on the conclusion of this series. At least until it's cheap. Mave even then.
 

spartan231490

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SilverKyo said:
spartan231490 said:
Antisocial Personality Disorder, or Sociopathy, can be shown through most but not necessarily all of the following qualifiers in the standard version:

1. Failure to conform to social norms with respect to lawful behaviours as indicated by repeatedly performing acts that are grounds for arrest.
2. Deceitfulness, as indicated by repeated lying, use of aliases, or conning others for personal profit or pleasure.
3. Impulsivity or failure to plan ahead.
4. Irritability and aggressiveness, as indicated by repeated physical fights or assaults.
5. Reckless disregard for safety of self or others.
6. Consistent irresponsibility, as indicated by repeated failure to sustain steady work or honour financial obligations.
7. Lack of remorse, as indicated by being indifferent to or rationalizing having hurt, mistreated, or stolen from another.

Now, I will go into my explination of those standard points.

1. This one is fairly obvious if you take a second to really think outside the box. Eragon is a first criminal of the first order, namely being a member of the rebel army, repeated acts of treason against the ruler of Alagaesia, disturbing the peace, refusing peace offerings, dishonorable tactics in battle, breaking out of prison, and freeing known supporters of the rebels guilty of the highest degree of smuggling. This might sound like a joke at first, but I am completely serious. King Galbatorix is the ruler of the Empire of Alagasesia (A wonderful example of his flawless use of the english language that totally doesn't make the reader stop and scratch their head. I want to see a neighboring country who has an Emperor who rules over a Kingdom). I know your first response here is, "But he's the bad guy!", and I urge you to stop and hear me out. Eragon grew up with a pretty standard peaceful childhood that was in no way hardened by the Empire, or how fine every town they went was off (except that one crazy dark place with the raz'ak, but that hardly counts, that place is a cult, they would be crazy whoever was going to be there). There were no examples of any places where the Empire actively oppressed it's citizens outside of *gasp* raising taxes! Oh noes! You know what is a primary cause of raising taxes? The Empire actively fighting a war... against rebels. Yea, Galbatorix claimed his throne threw violent rebellion, but who else is trying to claim the throne through violent rebellion? The rebels. If one tries to remain completely unbiased (which isn't hard to do considering all we know of the primary antagonist is the rebels say he's bad and he did that bad thing that one time), the Varden are terrorists. If there was no Varden, there would be no war; the citizens get to live peacefully and there would be no armies wreaking destruction on the landscape and villages with fighting. When the Varden wins in the next book (and to suggest otherwise would be giving Paolini too much credit and to try to raise him above standard fantasy novelist), they will inevitably but their candidate on the throne and continue their version of the Empire, and ironically similar parallel to Galbatorix and his rise... but without quite so much dragon death. It will probably have a single ruler or maybe a group of rulers, but they will probably rule like a dictatorship or monarchy because they don't really have the technology to pull off a successful republic or democracy (although that might happen because Paolini says it should even though it doesn't make logical sense as a long term plan). Eragon is completely oblivious to all of this, willfully or otherwise. But once you strip away the glamour and cliche black-and-white morality, he is a criminal. The Varden stole the egg, most likely involving some form of murder, and he came upon it. When the egg hatched and he became a rider, a good citizen would have pledged himself to his King, but instead he joined the rebels and proceeds to perform criminal and terrorist acts against the country, without a bit of remorse. He kills soldiers - men doing their duty - destroys property, lies and steals, refuses offers of clemency, and causes general chaos. Will he be brought to justice for these crimes? No, that would require Galbatorix to win, which is a laughable concept in Paolini's world.

2. Eragon is not a liar exactly, but he is incredibly self centered. This trait is glaringly obvious in the first book due to various qualities relating to it being the first book, so I'm going to examine this topic I'm about to raise with particular scrutiny there. Did Eragon achieve a notable achievement on his own the first book? No. He escapes from prison with the help of Murtagh and Saphira, he gets to the Varden with their help and Broms (post-mortem or otherwise). He kills Durza because of Saphira and Arya and their help. None of those heroic exploits were of his own doing, he is a child calling himself a man and takes no pride and doing these things for himself... but yet he takes no notice of any of this. He takes his friends absolutely for granted, expecting them to wait on his every command and indulge the childish tantrums which invariably take place whenever someone does not rush to help him at every turn. He is also utterly ungrateful ? witness his ?grudging? thanks to Brom after the aforesaid makes him a saddle, his constant whining to Saphira, his pathetic bewilderment and emotional blackmail when Arya rebuffs his sickly-sweet romantic approaches, his sulky rage over Vanir?s refusal to kowtow to him, and his generally condescending and overbearing behaviour toward every other character in the book (this might be book 2, I can't remember exactly). Eragon does not lie or deceive to get his way ? but he does not have to by virtue of being a "hero". Eragon is a spoilt brat wearing a hero?s armour and carrying a sword. He treats every other character in the book like his personal entourage, and yet accepts the respect he gets as if it is his due. I can already hear your counter argument, "But this is to show growth over time, he's supposed to act like a prick and get better over time. Character growth!" Well, let's look at that "growth". He's outright rude to Oromis for the longest time, well into the third book. The hysterical abuse he throws at the already much-abused Murtagh, his brother and apparent whipping-boy. Seriously, the way he treats an obvious victim of a dire situation is outright horrible. And his condescending behavior never really goes away unless forced to otherwise, such as with superior officers or royalty.

3. This is no contest. Even other characters remark on Eragon?s rashness and stupidity. He constantly rushes into things without a second thought (only to be miraculously saved every time, but this is beside the point). This trait is probably supposed to be endearing ? our hero is meant to be a hot-headed but courageous lad who has a lot to learn? blah blah blah. I have a better way of putting it: he?s a moron.

4. On numerous occasions in the books, Eragon has temper tantrums, usually over something trivial. It is a little unfair to add that he constantly fights and kills people as a solution to his problems (i.e. he would rather not work for the nasty ol? King), given that he is a fantasy character and that is what fantasy characters do?

5. This was kind of covered more or less in point 2, but I'll do a quick recap anyway. Eragon is constantly putting himself and other people in danger, usually because he is too stupid to think about anything for more than two minutes together. He is extremely reckless, and this cannot be overlooked given that he lives in a world where danger is ever-present and real, and the consequences are, frequently, death. Or they would be if we we're being completely realistic and not in the world in Paolini's idealistic head.

6. To return to the topic at hand, Eragon is indeed irresponsible. In spite of the fact that everybody is relying upon him, he constantly does stupid and irresponsible things which get himself and other people into trouble; his apparent inability to think ahead only compounds the felony.

7. This one is the proverbial nail in the coffin for me. Some of the other points are more of a stretch or you might say, "He's just being a stupid teenager" or "The writing wasn't what the author intended the character to be (to which I say the writing should be better then, I don't buy that one)." But this point is just too much to stand when you really throw it into the proper perspective. I wonder if someone has ever actually read these books and kept an active tally on the amount of people Eragon has killed. Now? in Eldest, when Eragon?s cousin Roran is forced to begin fighting and killing people, he keeps a mental count of all his victims and angsts about it. It is lame and unconvincing, but at least in this case Paolini made an attempt at showing some realism ? Roran is shocked by the fact that he has killed people. Eragon, however, has no such reservations. At no point in either book does he truly feel remorse for anything, even something as heinous as killing another living soul. In Eragon, when he first kills a group of urgals, he has no reaction beyond, ?OMG I gotz magick??!!?. He pats himself on the back for having discovered his magical abilities, but doesn?t pause for a second to consider the fact that he has just become a killer. Yes, the victims were evil, beastly urgals, but they were still, technically, people. And yet Eragon feels nothing at having killed them. Later on he kills human beings with a similar lack of reaction or human feeling. Where is the disgust? Where is the guilt? Where is the horror? He acts like a robot. In the, uh, glorious final battle of Eldest, he uses the uber-speshul magical death words (cheap cop-out) to instantly kill dozens of Imperial troops, and his only real thought is ?geez, this is just too easy?. And this is after he?s been told that there is no life after death and that this life is all anyone gets. This is not all. After Murtagh ?dies? at the beginning of the book, Eragon feels (or rather, thinks) sad for exactly a paragraph, and then forgets about him for the rest of the book. When he reappears at the end and reveals that he is now working for the Empire, Eragon screeches at him about how he was ?mourning? for him (liar), and goes on to be a complete asshole toward him ? taunting him about the scar he got from his violent father, and continuing to hurl abuse at him after it is already clear that he has been coerced into his current position and is now more of a victim than ever. Once the fight is over (and Eragon has been soundly defeated, much to the reader?s pleasure ? this reader, at any rate), he continues to feel sorry for himself and barely spares a thought for Murtagh at all ? after he has discovered that they are brothers, no less. There are even more examples to be had of Eragon?s selfishness and lack of remorse. Elva is an excellent one. When he discovers that he unintentionally cursed the child instead of blessing her, he is dismayed for approximately one minute before he moves on to other things and forgets all about the matter. He suffers from no lingering guilt or anxiety whatsoever, and when he finally meets his victim face-to-face, he briefly apologises and promises to try and remove the curse before he wanders off and forgets about her again for the rest of the book. Somehow, the Epistler is not taken in by this display of remorse. Strangely, however, he goes to pieces over having killed a few rabbits. ...Does anyone else see the internal contradiction here?

Also, for your consideration, but in much less thought out detail: Narcissistic Personality Disorder & Eragon

1. A grandiose sense of self-importance

2. Requires excessive admiration

3. Strong sense of entitlement

4. Takes advantage of other people

5. Lacks empathy (again)

8. Arrogant affect (he accepts being the Last Hope of pretty much everything with scarcely a pause. One would expect some feelings of self-doubt or at the very least embarrassment, but apparently Paolini thinks otherwise)

Narcissists, far from actually being special, have very little personality to call their own. Instead, they create a false personality from bits and pieces of the personalities of other people whom they regarded as an authority. They adopt other people?s tastes and opinions as if they were their own, they have sterile inner lives and resent having to do anything for themselves, and they don?t talk about their feelings... does this sound familiar at all?

Eragon is a blank slate of a character. He never thinks for himself. Instead he mindlessly repeats things which other people have said, has no real opinions or beliefs of his own ? he has no individuality. Everything he is is a quotation of some sort; he becomes a vegetarian atheist like Oromis with little or no resistance, and never shows any resentment over the fact that he is being changed by powers outside of his control. Narcissists also show an inability to change as a person based on their experiences, which, again, is true for Eragon. He begins as a selfish, immature brat, and stays that way right to the end of Eldest, in spite of all the huge changes that have taken place in his life. His view of the world changes not one iota.

I'm not a psych major, and am not qualified to make this judgement in any professional degree, and none of the people I know who do would subject themselves to reading these books. But I do have a list of traits that classify these disorders and I have a keen eye for seeing similarites.

Also, one last thing that helps me to really dislike Eragon as a character: The Mary Sue (or Gary Stu in this case) test! Most common Mary Sue traits:

1. Sues tend to be good-looking. Quote from Eldest: "more beautiful than any man, more rugged than any elf".

2. They have tragic pasts. Eragon is an orphan who never knew his mother and who has an unknown father (now where have we encountered this scenario before?). He also loses his guardian and his home under violent circumstances.

3. They also have special powers. Eragon becomes a master swordsman in a matter of months, can use magic, has 1337 archery and hunting skills at age 15 (and let us not forget that he is the only person brave enough to hunt in the Spine. At age 15), can see the future in his dreams, is a dragon rider, and has a healing ability that rivals Wolverine?s.

4. Every ?good? character automatically loves them. I can only think of one character on the side of good who did not automatically kiss Eragon?s skinny behind ? Vanir the elf. However, Vanir changed his mind following the Deus ex Machina Ceremony. Every other character with whom Paolini wants us to sympathise adores Eragon. Anyone who dislikes him is evil.

5. The Sue receives all the attention in the story ? a Sue is like a black hole into which all else is inevitably sucked. They can even warp the laws of space and time. Let us not beat about the bush ? the whole of Alagaësia revolves around Eragon. Even the evil King is obsessed with him. No matter where he goes or what he does, Eragon is the centre of attention 100% of the time. Every other character defers to him. Even the far wiser Oromis kowtows to him and puts up with his continual rudeness and arrogance without complaint. Even Saphira, who is supposedly Eragon?s equal, has no apparent life away from him or any concerns or interests of her own.

6. Sues are also generally the same age, race and gender as their creator. White teenage male. That is all.

7. They do the things their creator would like to do. Paolini himself said that Eragon is his daydream, and that Eragon the character does the things that he himself would like to do

8. They have romances with canon characters the author finds attractive. Arya is Arwen. This we know to be fact. Both Elvish princesses with black hair with whom the rugged hero falls in love. She exists for no reason at all beyond being Eragon?s love interest. She has no character development ? all the prose concerning her talks about how beautiful she supposedly is. Eragon loves her, and she will inevitably fall for him as well. I will refrain from commenting on how this reflects on the author.

9. They often have special companions/sidekicks (eg a talking cat). Saphira is Eragon?s sidekick. She exists to make him cooler and more powerful and be his horse who talks. This might be more endemic to the story being all about Eragon and the fact that it's from his perspective, but although the author likes to say Saphira is his equal, she is not written as such.

10. They are more powerful than even the most powerful characters. Eragon is ridiculously powerful. He can out-match the most experienced swordsmen after having first picked up a sword a mere few months earlier. There is no-one in the Varden who is anywhere close to matching him in magical ability. He is more or less a one-man army ? no-one can face him in open battle and win (except for Murtagh, who apparently only won because he cheated).

11. They own special personalised weapons/other special items which no-one else has. Eragon has Zar?roc ? one of only two special magical shiny rider?s swords definitely known to exist. It can cut through anything, it has a cool red blade and an improbably big ruby set into the hilt. It also has a cool name. It is unbreakable and never needs to be sharpened. Too bad Murtagh steals it. But oh, we can't have a rider without his super awesome Rider sword... I know, we'll Deus Ex him a new one (and spend a god awful amount of time doing it for no reason) and make it even more awesome and powerful... and blue.

12. They have silly, overly fancy names, often including titles. Eragon Shadeslayer, Argetlam, Shur?tugal, Eragon-finiarel? blah blah blah. He has enough ?cool? titles/extra names to make a personalised stationary designer gibber.

13. They learn things with unrealistic speed. Our ?hero? manages to become a master swordsman in under a year. He learns how to read and write in a week. Let me repeat that one for you, he learns to read and write in a week. He masters magic in a very short space of time. Honestly, if every rider progressed like this, then when they began their training at 10, they would master everything they possibly could be 12. Scary thought really.

14. They are extremely annoying... this one was more for me.

I will refrain from drawing lines between Eragon's Gary Stu aspects and his apparent psychological disorders and how they might relate to the author in that Gary Stu, I don't know Paolini and I would not presume I would from this... but I have read his writing... and if it isn't completely obvious, I find it slightly... unimpressive.
I will admit your points are well argued, but I defy you to find a high fantasy character who doesn't fit those definitions by the end.

as to learning too fast, he's facing a rider who's been around for over 100 years, and who cheats. he kinda has to or the story makes no sense. That's not a mark against it. "oh really, you mean a fantasy story is unrealistic because it has to be? How ever can you stand it." The only way that would be a mark against it if he learned to read in 5 years and became a master swordsman in 1, then it would be confusing. Rand beats 2 Heron-marked swordsman less than a year after beginning to learn. It happens, it has to for an author to allow his main character to start standing up for himself. Ok, so it doesn't have to, but you get my point.
 

bob1052

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The first book was okay when I was in grade six, but never made me want to read the second. I tried rereading it recently and it is so painfully boring.
 

TornadoFive

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I own and enjoyed the first three, and I'll probably get the final book at some stage, just to see how it all ends. But to be honest, I've moved on. They were good at the time, but I feel like I've grown past them now.

Nothing more I can say really. I usually get quite excited about the final book in a series I've enjoyed, but it's taken so long to arrive, that I'm not that bothered anymore.
 

Shadu

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Necromancer Jim said:
I read about halfway through the second book.

When it came out.

Haven't touched one of the books since.

Chalk me up as "Not in the slightest".
My sentiments exactly. I read the first, thought it was decent. Not great, not horrible. Trudged through half the second book and called it quits. My family owns the third simply so we can have a full set and in case we ever do make it through, but I know I'm personally not interested, and I'm not buying a set of these for when I move out. There's much better things out there.
 

SilverKyo

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spartan231490 said:
SilverKyo said:
-sniping and snaping-
I will admit your points are well argued, but I defy you to find a high fantasy character who doesn't fit those definitions by the end.

as to learning too fast, he's facing a rider who's been around for over 100 years, and who cheats. he kinda has to or the story makes no sense. That's not a mark against it. "oh really, you mean a fantasy story is unrealistic because it has to be? How ever can you stand it." The only way that would be a mark against it if he learned to read in 5 years and became a master swordsman in 1, then it would be confusing. Rand beats 2 Heron-marked swordsman less than a year after beginning to learn. It happens, it has to for an author to allow his main character to start standing up for himself. Ok, so it doesn't have to, but you get my point.
I will give you that quite a few fantasy authors can have protagonists that fit these descriptions, but it's really Paolini's writing that does it for me. The plot has a decent idea behind it, but the characters, and especially Eragon, are so robotic and cardboard like. He doesn't come across as an actual human being with emotions. He never learns from his experiences and still acts like a childish brat long past when he should be. At no point does he go about things like a sane actual person would who has learned things on his journey emotionally.

Also, I don't buy your learning quick theory for a second. I've read in plenty of other stories where it takes the hero time to learn the necessary skills, and the story could still work if Eragon learned what he needed to learn in a few years rather then months. And hell, who says he has to win against King Bad man the first time? He could fight him and get his ass kicked, and then go and train more or go artifact hunting or something and fight him again... except that would just make the story compelling, rather then bland and generic and cliche.
 

Xaio30

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I'm no expert, but he as sure as hell taken his time with this book taken in consideration that it was already started on as Book 3 was released.

Sadly, my interest has faltered.
 

Anchupom

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spartan231490 said:
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
Ok.
Favorite character is probably Arya, favorite moment is definitely when Roran kills almost 200 soldiers. speculation is my area of specialty. The name Galbatorix is looking for is probably the name of the ancient language, or maybe the name of the continent of Alagaesia. I think the Dragon will hatch for Arya. This will help even the balance between her and Eragon, allowing them to get together. Arya's father will turn out not to be the last king Evandar. It will be revealed that she is Oromis' daugher, and she will inherit his sword(and all the power stored in it) as well as hatching the green dragon.

Thorn will die, changing Murtagh's true name, allowing him to escape Galbatorix's control. He might actually steal the green egg, hoping it will hatch for him, and that's how Arya will get it. Arya and Eragon will kill him together, and in the end they will sail off together, either bound for the Elven continent, or searching for other dragons, or maybe just going to Vroenguard.(pursuant to Angela's prophesy of him leaving Alagaesia forever) Nasuada will marry Oren. Roran will become King.

The rock of Kuthian is the thing that I'm least sure of. It could be the vault where the wild dragons stored their hearts before the Dragon Riders were formed. It could also be the center of Alagaesia, and Kuthian is actually the name of Alagaesia in the ancient language, or it could be the name of the Ancient language. The way the word tends to bounce around the heads of anyone with magical blood makes me think that it is a powerful word in the ancient language. Probably the name that Galbatorix is looking for. The other possibility I see is that the "speak your name thing" is because it is actually the hidden vault that holds the heart of the first Eragon's dragon, and it will unlock for a rider with the same name, which would be an extremely old and powerful heart.

Told you I was uncertain about the rock of Kuthian, we just haven't had enough information about it. I'm 90% sure about the Oromis/Arya thing, and probably 80% about the Murtagh/thorn/egg thing. Everything else about 50%.

Before you ask: Yes. I have put a large amount of thought into this.
I think, of the list of things you're speculating that the Arya/Oromis thing is the least likely. I have ideas about speaking your name yadda yadda yadda, and that is that he needs to speak HIS TRUE NAME to this rock and open the vault of souls (which I also think probably contains at least one heart of hearts.) I like the idea of the name Kuthian being the ancient language for Alagaesia, but apart from that...
Time will tell.
Brom and morzan both have sons in the fight. Elves were more common and women equally common. it makes sense that oromis' daughter will be the next rider. that doesn't need to be Arya, but I think it is. It's the only way I can imagine Arya and Eragon ending up together, and I can't see any way that they don't end up together. also, remember in book one Eragon had one of those dreams that seemed more than a dream. It showed 3 people approach a boat. One man stayed behind, a man and a woman got on the boat. as the boat sailed away, he glimsped 2 dragons in the sky. Thorn dies, leaving murtagh alone, and Eragon and Arya leave him behind as they sail off into the distance. Arya just being a dragon rider doesn't make sense with the inheritance theme unless she ends up being the daughter of one of the riders. Also, Oromis' sword and most of his power were lost over Gilead, where the Elves almost def uncovered it, indicating that they will be given to the next rider.
That's my reasoning. If you still don't agree, I guess time will tell.
I don't know, elves don't really seem like the types to have affairs. As elf children are so rare, and the ultimate expression of love between two elves, then it's almost pretty certainly going to be a legitimate child.
There's no such thing as an illegitimate elvish child, as they have no such thing as marriage. And Affairs do happen, look at Linea/menoa tree. Also, perhaps Evandar needed an heir, and was unable to provide one.
Well, you know - choosing a mate for a depicted amount of time. Come on, I just don't think it's likely.
 

Anchupom

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spartan231490 said:
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
That's your opinion. The best-seller's list and national success would seem to work against you. As for being too young. Mozart wrote one of the worlds most praised compositions at what: 7? obviously, 15 is not too young for artistic achievement. Leann Rimes was a remarkably successful musician at 15. I'm sure I could find more examples if I tried, but I feel no desire to. Achievement has nothing to do with age. Joan of Arc died when she was 15 years old.
Sorry dude, I'm all for defending Paolini, but this argument holds little water. Being able to write/play music is a talent that doesn't really require worldly experience, something which writing can need. So his argument that he was too young when writing Eragon is logical.
I don't accept your premise that writing requires more life experience than writing music. I also don't accept your premise that life experience is so conveniently wrapped up in the number we use to express our age, look at Joan of Arc.. I am also almost entirely convinced that you could find a writer who was 15 or younger who wrote a book that is praised as being amazingly written. Or even a classic.
Writing a meaningful story, especially one with adult characters, will obviously need life experience. How do you expect a pre-pubecent to know what it's like trying to find a job? Or going through a midlife crisis? Parenthood?
Those things (though not necessarily a stone-set requirement for a good book) are things that only living through can really give you the correct scope to write about.
 

Anchupom

In it for the Pub Club cookies
Apr 15, 2009
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lovest harding said:
Anchupom said:
lovest harding said:
It's not high fantasy if you haven't drawn a map of every single corner of the continent (bonus points for entire world) and invented at least 3 languages (probably all based on elvish).
All fair points, and I understand where you're coming from with them. Even with the Twilight, I admit, albeit while hating myself, that Meyers was original.

Although on an attempt a humour, I think you'll find that the only language based on Elvish (which is actually an adopted lanuage anyway) is the human language, but that has parts of Dwarvish in them. Dwarvish was spoken before the Elves reached Aglaesia, and Urgals speak a language very different to Elvish and human, most similar (but still rather different to Dwarvish)

(that's why I chose that bit to quote you on, because I wanted to display my nerd-dom.)
;D
Are you talking about in the actual world of the Inheritance books?
Because I was talking about all the made up languages in all high fantasy novels were probably based on Tolkien's elvish. xD
My point being that made up languages most likely based on Tolkien's elvish language, overly thought out worlds, and some form of Tolkien's races being the only obvious qualities for modern high fantasy.
...
Damn, caught out.

Yeah, I was being deliberately close-minded xD
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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spartan231490 said:
Bobbity said:
Let's boil it down further: Weak youth gains power and accomplishes great things. Hey look, it's every high fantasy ever written, they must all be rip-offs.
Of course, that's a silly argument and nobody would seriously offer it. You may taker issue with the more specific points which are pretty heavily derived from one specific source, but that does not facilitate a silly, over-the-top argument. Well, it readily facilitates it, but it's rather uncalled for.

We're not talking a few generic plot points, we're talking a good chunk of the series, point by point. You say yourself you've seen those lists.
 

Anchupom

In it for the Pub Club cookies
Apr 15, 2009
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Jacob Haggarty said:
On a completely unrelated note, i haven't seen a thread about books on these forums before now.
Yeah, that's why I brought it up, I wasn't really expecting such a response.
 

spartan231490

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rollerfox88 said:
spartan231490 said:
rollerfox88 said:
Only got published because his parents are the publishers. I have read the first two, and it seemed very generic...still, at least the books arent as bad as the film version of Eragon...
Actually, the self-publish from his parents never went very far, only a small portion of Montana. He got big-time published because another author found his book, thought it was good, and sent it to his own publishing company.
I was not aware of this. Still drivel though, in my opinion. Out of interest, who was the author that passed it on?
Carl Hiaasen.
 

spartan231490

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Zachary Amaranth said:
spartan231490 said:
Bobbity said:
Let's boil it down further: Weak youth gains power and accomplishes great things. Hey look, it's every high fantasy ever written, they must all be rip-offs.
Of course, that's a silly argument and nobody would seriously offer it. You may taker issue with the more specific points which are pretty heavily derived from one specific source, but that does not facilitate a silly, over-the-top argument. Well, it readily facilitates it, but it's rather uncalled for.

We're not talking a few generic plot points, we're talking a good chunk of the series, point by point. You say yourself you've seen those lists.
I've also seen the same arguments about another dozen books, none of which are rip-offs in my opinion. His premise is similar, it happens in a world with this much entertainment, that is going to result in similar plot structure. I see the differences as being more significant than the similarities.
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
Anchupom said:
spartan231490 said:
Ok.
Favorite character is probably Arya, favorite moment is definitely when Roran kills almost 200 soldiers. speculation is my area of specialty. The name Galbatorix is looking for is probably the name of the ancient language, or maybe the name of the continent of Alagaesia. I think the Dragon will hatch for Arya. This will help even the balance between her and Eragon, allowing them to get together. Arya's father will turn out not to be the last king Evandar. It will be revealed that she is Oromis' daugher, and she will inherit his sword(and all the power stored in it) as well as hatching the green dragon.

Thorn will die, changing Murtagh's true name, allowing him to escape Galbatorix's control. He might actually steal the green egg, hoping it will hatch for him, and that's how Arya will get it. Arya and Eragon will kill him together, and in the end they will sail off together, either bound for the Elven continent, or searching for other dragons, or maybe just going to Vroenguard.(pursuant to Angela's prophesy of him leaving Alagaesia forever) Nasuada will marry Oren. Roran will become King.

The rock of Kuthian is the thing that I'm least sure of. It could be the vault where the wild dragons stored their hearts before the Dragon Riders were formed. It could also be the center of Alagaesia, and Kuthian is actually the name of Alagaesia in the ancient language, or it could be the name of the Ancient language. The way the word tends to bounce around the heads of anyone with magical blood makes me think that it is a powerful word in the ancient language. Probably the name that Galbatorix is looking for. The other possibility I see is that the "speak your name thing" is because it is actually the hidden vault that holds the heart of the first Eragon's dragon, and it will unlock for a rider with the same name, which would be an extremely old and powerful heart.

Told you I was uncertain about the rock of Kuthian, we just haven't had enough information about it. I'm 90% sure about the Oromis/Arya thing, and probably 80% about the Murtagh/thorn/egg thing. Everything else about 50%.

Before you ask: Yes. I have put a large amount of thought into this.
I think, of the list of things you're speculating that the Arya/Oromis thing is the least likely. I have ideas about speaking your name yadda yadda yadda, and that is that he needs to speak HIS TRUE NAME to this rock and open the vault of souls (which I also think probably contains at least one heart of hearts.) I like the idea of the name Kuthian being the ancient language for Alagaesia, but apart from that...
Time will tell.
Brom and morzan both have sons in the fight. Elves were more common and women equally common. it makes sense that oromis' daughter will be the next rider. that doesn't need to be Arya, but I think it is. It's the only way I can imagine Arya and Eragon ending up together, and I can't see any way that they don't end up together. also, remember in book one Eragon had one of those dreams that seemed more than a dream. It showed 3 people approach a boat. One man stayed behind, a man and a woman got on the boat. as the boat sailed away, he glimsped 2 dragons in the sky. Thorn dies, leaving murtagh alone, and Eragon and Arya leave him behind as they sail off into the distance. Arya just being a dragon rider doesn't make sense with the inheritance theme unless she ends up being the daughter of one of the riders. Also, Oromis' sword and most of his power were lost over Gilead, where the Elves almost def uncovered it, indicating that they will be given to the next rider.
That's my reasoning. If you still don't agree, I guess time will tell.
I don't know, elves don't really seem like the types to have affairs. As elf children are so rare, and the ultimate expression of love between two elves, then it's almost pretty certainly going to be a legitimate child.
There's no such thing as an illegitimate elvish child, as they have no such thing as marriage. And Affairs do happen, look at Linea/menoa tree. Also, perhaps Evandar needed an heir, and was unable to provide one.
Well, you know - choosing a mate for a depicted amount of time. Come on, I just don't think it's likely.
It fits with his theme of inheritance that has been pounded down our throats for the entire series. Roran doesn't fit, Elva doesn't fit, nasuada, angela, nobody else fits.
 

Hoki

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I preferred the series when it was called "The Dragonriders of Pern."

Honestly, though, I don't see the appeal in these books. There are by far better-written fantasty novels out there, none of which give me the sense of deja vu that these did. I'm all for hoping for improvement, but it's unlikely. Authors don't usually change their styling, storytelling, or characterization. Terry Goodkind taught me that the hard way, and even his books were more enjoyable for me than the Inheritance series. :<

But hey, if you like it, fantastic. I'd just rather spend money on A Dance With Dragons or Ghost Story.
 

Togs

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Nope, dudes a hack.

Just search "eragon running commentary" for an hilarious MST3000 style blog post on it.