Poll: WikiLeaks - Good or bad?

[Smooth Operator]

I'm personally quite against the idea of the site. Confidential things are confidential for a reason, and revealing the secret dealings of two of the "good guys" in the world (the UK and the US, although from what I hear, a lot of the world doesn't think that we Americans are all that "good" for some reason) is not going to help anything. I would be shocked if almost every other government didn't do the exact same things; however, the leaked information doesn't really do anything other than to sew distrust in governments that really (if you look through the documents) didn't do anything wrong.

Well as contrast you should know that Nazis were convinced they are the good guys and are rightfully exterminating terrorists... no wait... people they didn't like.

I support wikileaks without a doubt, people should know what's really going on, because the US is extremely good on selling the "good" fight story and pulling this nice little veil over all the invasions.
Damn if Hitler had the idea of selling war as good we would probably have half the damn globe under his rule.
Fact of the matter is war is ugly, and it's serving individuals own agendas, there is alot of shit politicians don't want you to see, and that is exactly why you should.

 

[Kortney]

Nothing wrong with what Wiki Leaks did at all. The Government should not be in a position to keep secrets from the public they are supposed to represent.

That's just how I see it.

 

[The Youth Counselor]

these leaked documents can seriously cost peoples lives. no matter how you put it its illegal activity and harming people's jobs and lives. Im not saying that america hasnt made a boo boo here or their but the documents are secret for a reason, this wikileaks guy is just an american hater. its one thing if a journalist discovers one thing and reports it, but this guy is useing STOLEN DOCUMENTS.
yes i am an american but it would still be wrong if it happened to just about any country.
and whos to say he wont do it to another country like the U.K.?

Facepalm+ Infinity.

Wikileaks was founded by CHINESE DISSIDENTS, journalists, mathematicians and startup company technologists"

Yes, WikiLeaks publishes a lot of information on all sorts of countries and organizations but nobody seems to care about that. Off the top of my head are some underreported international stories that broke on WikiLeaks:

China:
*Photographs of the detainment, torture, and executions of Falun Gong practitioners.
*Documents on China's harvesting of condemned prisoners' organs.
*List of government state TV and internet search engine censored keywords.
*Video of the torture of an employee of the manufacturing giant Foxconn (who exclusively makes iphone and ipods) who allegedly lost or stole an iphone prototype.
*Records of dozens of employees who commited suicide at Foxconn.
*Documents that allude Foxconn bribing politicians.
*Plans for mobile execution chambers.
*Video of a politician walking with a young girl who then runs away from him accusing him of attempted rape.
*Information that shows that the Beijing politburo like the rest of the world is frustrated with North Korea, and favors Seoul.

Iran:
*Footage and documents concerning the executions of LGBT Iranians.
*Criteria to be diagnosed as a transsexual to receive sexual reassignment surgery.
*Documents that record weapons imported (including SAMS, shaped charges, and missiles) to help the Iraqi insurgency against the Coalition.
*Documents that indicate Iran's training of suicide bombers and other militants to attack the Coalition and Israel.
*Documents that detail drones sent by Iran to spy on U.S. operations and attacks by their special forces groups.
*Reports that the Ayatollah is near death.

North Korea:
*Documents that reveal they had sold weapons to Al Qaeda and the Taliban.
*Documents that they are actively assisting and assisted by Syria and Iran.
*Training brochures for netizens to spread propaganda on external websites.
*Videos of executions, some at the DMZ next to South Korea.
*Details of torture of dissidents including children.
*Records of kidnapped foreigners.
*Financial records of the cost of a Pyongyang hotel that took up 2% of the national budget and was eventually abandoned.

Eastern Europe:
*Information that Dyncorp was trafficing minors into sexual slavery.

South Africa:
*Official charges of corruption against President Jacob Zuma.
*Official charges of rape against President Jacob Zuma.
*Allegations of bullying against President Jacob Zuma.

And WikiLeaks has done a hell of a lot more to protect the names of individuals who may face danger than the government has. Every one of their documents is first analyzed and the names and identities of parties are redacted for protection. That's a far cry from say what officials did to Valerie Plame.

Not exposing corruption and abuse while not holding ourselves accoutable for it makes us no better than the countries I listed.

 

[Marcos Viveros]

Well, here are my five cents:

At best Government officials should focus time and energy in securing their data and prosecuting the official that gave the info to wikileaks not wikileaks itself. I am sick and tired that regular people is always being misled and being lied to; even more, I am afraid that officials will sway public opinion into thinking that "just for this ocassion" knowing the truth is not in our best interest.

Nobody should be prosecuted for telling/publishing the truth! Don't want your truth known? Secure it better!

Always defend the access to the truth!
Let's support the candles in the darkness!

Cheers!!!

 

[Marcos Viveros]

Wikileaks needs to exist and keep up the work!

 

[Marcos Viveros]

It is happening to you my friend: (I am afraid that officials will sway public opinion into thinking that "just for this occasion" knowing the truth is not in our best interest)



At best Government officials should focus time and energy in securing their data and prosecuting the official that gave the info to wikileaks not wikileaks itself. I am sick and tired that regular people is always being misled and being lied to; even more, I am afraid that officials will sway public opinion into thinking that "just for this occasion" knowing the truth is not in our best interest.

Nobody should be prosecuted for telling/publishing the truth! Don't want your truth known? Secure it better!

Always defend the access to the truth!
Let's support the candles in the darkness!

 

[Marcos Viveros]

I'll second that Brother!

 

[Vianyte]

Governments are lying and manipulative. Anything or anyone that exposes them is a hero in my eyes.

 

[GWarface]

Withholding holding the truth is bad...
Telling the truth is good...

WikiLeaks - +1
Lying Governments and industries - 0

 

[lacktheknack]

It's down, and that makes me sad.

 

[tomtom94]

There's no black and white here, it's shades of grey and we need someone who's willing to hold governments accountable and some way for whistleblowers to get out, otherwise we are no better than Stalinist Russia.

Are we going to like everything they show us? No, of course not. But equally some stuff needs revealing.

 

[lacktheknack]

Now, not on topic, but how do some of you people change what it says under you name in the idtag on the side of the forum posts?

Publisher's Club.

 

[HT_Black]

In my mind, it's as simple as this: there are some things that need to be common knowledge (I.E. Guantanamo Bay, the Chopper video, ACTA) and it's not like governments are going to tell anyone. Thus far, the Wikileaks crew has had the discretion needed to avoid endangering soldiers in the field, and as long as they still have that, they're unquestionably good guys.

 

[Tomo Stryker]

As much as I love information, sometimes anonymous companies that pride themselves on blowing whistles doesn't exactly sound appealing. Of course that means that the governments that are hiding these documents aren't doing as good of a job as they could be at making them invisible. My vote? WikiLeaks needs to be removed, the word "leaks" alone sets my alarm system buzzing.

 

[kebab4you]

Sorry it´s in swedish but google translate could probably give an o.k translation off it.
http://www.dn.se/nyheter/varlden/pengaflode-till-wikileaks-stoppas-1.1221463

OT; Yeah I consider wikileaks good, U.S hide way to much information just because they feel like it...

 

[Flac00]

I think its a good thing. Whenever diplomats or heads of state play nice with other countries you just feel that they are doing it throigh gritted teeth. Now with the leaks, we can all see what we really think of each other, no more living a lie, get it all out into the open.

Plus, its particularly good for my country the UK because if the public outrage over the USA's opinion of us is anything to go by there is no chance in hell we will be dragged into another of their wars. Hell, go even further with that and my country's army might actually pull out of the current ones right now.

It is fine, until it threatens the life of the people fighting in the war. When wikileaks revealed the identities of translators, it became dangerous. Free speech without persecution is fine until it kills.

 

[HK_01]

It's a great thing. It exposes lies of politicians about things which are of interest to the general public. I want to know how a war is really going.

 

[Delusibeta]

While I would approve the general concept, I'm a little uncomfortable with the fact that it's pretty much all controlled by one man.

 

[the clockmaker]

On the topic of the sex scandal, sweeden is trying to arrest him, not the US. The US does not arrest Australians for raping swedes in Sweeden. The US is planning to arrest him, pending an investigation, because he stole, or recieved stolen documents classified as secret or above. Ya know, espionage.

On the topic of the leaks themselves, imagine that a government is a mind. A single mind. Every one of these diplomats is I dunno synapses or whatever and these leaks, none of which show evidence of war crimes or human rights abuses by the way are thoughts.

Think for a moment about all the thoughts that go through your mind every day, especially those about other people, 'wow, he's a tosser, she's ugly, that joke was retarded, I love her, I love him, I love lamp.' now you don't believe any of these things, not really, but the thought does flash through your mind.

Now imagine that everyone suddenly knew every thought you'd had about them. How do you think that this is going to affect your relationship? The fact is that sometimes things are better kept secret, at least until they have been around for long enough for the freedom of information act to kick in.

Also, he claims to have been in contact with 'Australian intelligence' now I don't know about you guys, but if my job was information dissemination, I would at least be able to name the agency that contacted me, ASIO ASIS DIO DSA or DSD, AFP maybe, no one who has had contact with these groups would simply call them Australian intelligence.

I highly doubt Assange raped anyone. Its a little.... convenient.... for someone to be accused of a heinous crime (and is highly prone to abuse, and false convictions) after he leaked sensitive information. the charges were dropped an hour after being made public. strange? yes. coincidence? i think not. the freedom of information act is a JOKE. a contrived law that does the OPPOSITE of what it says. Wikileaks has shit tons of information about covering up the deaths of journalists and civilians, and even violations in other countries such as dyncorp's sex trafficking. Couple that with public knowledge of censoring and burning books the US is looking pretty bad right now.

In short, George Washington would have a shit fit.

To my knowledge mate, the charges were dropped due to a procedual error are refiled rapidly afterwards.

And I must confess that I have fairly little understanding of the US legal system and was basing my estimate on the freedom of information laws on the great southern land. If my estimate was incorrect, I was wrong and I appologise.

My point was though, some stuff is best kept secret because of the fallout it would create, this has raised tensions with Iran, the DPRK, Libya and damaged relations with countless other nations. And what tangible bloody benifit have we gained? Have the politicians sworn to never do anything bad again? have all human rights abuses stopped? Has this engendered a new era of peace and openness?

No, it is simply an Ideological act of seeming to progress rather than actually improving anything, this guy is not gonna stick around to fix anything, he's not going to try and improve relations with other nations. He is the guy who walks into a marrige counsiling session and shouts 'he banged a hooker' and then walks back out again.

We have no way of verifying his information, we have no way of bringing him to account for the crimes he has commited (the issue of the sexual molestation charge really being tangetel here) and the thing that annoys me is that noone seems to want to. But again, his actions appeal to the cult of seeming Ideologically pure, rather than actually getting in the mud and trying to fix the damned situation, and do you know why?

Its because sometimes you have to do bad things to achieve a good result, that doesn't make it right, but it does make it nessecary. Sometimes you simply have to stick your neck out and get your hands dirty and you do this, knowing that indirectly (will of public=votes=government=policy=orders) your nation has your back and you can walk away and continue your life afterwards. But those who stand on the sidelines and judge can be lauded, never helping, but seeming like the good guys while they do it.

I am not claiming that that justtifies all the alleged acts leaked, but how likely are good men and women going to stick their necks out when for all they know, their jobs will be stripped of context and turned into one or two word gossip tidbits. A journalist is killed whilst travelling amongst an armed group of insurgents? 'US MURDERS PRESS'! A special forces team throws a granade into a building which a group of terrorists are firing from, accidently killing a family being used as human shields that they were unaware of? 'ASSIES KILL KIDS'!

Releasing this stuff helps no one, and only makes the 'ideologically pure' feel good about themselves.

I appologise if my tone is a bit rude, and I hope I have not offended, but acts like this do make me angry.

 

[the clockmaker]

actually the journalist was merely walking around with his camera crew and the cameras were "mistaken" for RPGS and blown up with a damn attack helicopter. if you heard the radio chatter it was no accident. The pilot basically just shouted "kill em! kill em or they will kill us! shoot first ask questions later!". There was no thought, just shots fired. If it WAS an RPG they would have been shot down by the time they fired the missile. Hell the psych reports from the American military are plain scary. The American military literally is full of sociopaths as they view non-Americans as rapid dogs needing to be put down and in one case, slaughter for a contest. War is war.

All these documents would have been grabbed by a spy anyway if these documents were THAT insecure. They would have been stolen and passed around the international community. Make no mistake, espionage is very real and these documents would have been child's play if they didn't already have them. It literally made no difference as the same diplomatic effect would have been achieved except we wouldn't have known about it. Its better to have the people know why people hate them with a passion, than to be in the dark.

Its America's own damn fault for not hiding its dirty laundry better. It certainly isn't a land of saints as they broke MANY treaties and made more than their share of morally questionable choices.

Hmm, my info might be outdated on that topic, if so, then I appologise, but the point still stands. Ive read reports of British soldiers being killed my mortar teams that were allowed to escape because the contact report would look strange. Also, more a technical point than a moral one, but no, life is not a viedo game and an RPG cannot shoot down an AH64 before the pilot has a chance to react. I also dont like the use of 'mistaken' in inverted commas, it is difficult to determine the exact nature of shoulder mounted objects at hight.

The point is not about knowledge, the point is about open knowledge, If Iran knows that france wants to go to war, they can up their readieness and chill relations a little. If everybody knows that france to go to war, then Iran has to react in a big public fashion. It stops becoming the issue itself and starts becoming the public perception of the issue, two completly differant beasts. That is the entire point of deniable information.

How many soldiers have you actually met? How many have you talked to? I lived on a USMC base for two years and I saw jingosism, extreame over masculinity and offensive language but funnily enough, not much sociopathy or real racism.

But it is good to see that you agree he has commited espoinage, a criminal offence in most nations and justifcation for his arrest. Every secret is stolen at one point or another, and these were not exactly big secrets, mostly things that were public knowledge stated less politlely. The only differance is now states have to react to the information and that is in no way a good thing.

If you will read the post you have quoted,

Its because sometimes you have to do bad things to achieve a good result, that doesn't make it right, but it does make it nessecary. Sometimes you simply have to stick your neck out and get your hands dirty and you do this, knowing that indirectly (will of public=votes=government=policy=orders) your nation has your back and you can walk away and continue your life afterwards. But those who stand on the sidelines and judge can be lauded, never helping, but seeming like the good guys while they do it.

I am not claiming that that justtifies all the alleged acts leaked, but how likely are good men and women going to stick their necks out when for all they know, their jobs will be stripped of context and turned into one or two word gossip tidbits. A journalist is killed whilst travelling amongst an armed group of insurgents? 'US MURDERS PRESS'! A special forces team throws a granade into a building which a group of terrorists are firing from, accidently killing a family being used as human shields that they were unaware of? 'ASSIES KILL KIDS'!

I never claimed that they were a land of saints. But hey, Next time your personal information is published, remember, the guy who did it is blameless, its your fault for not hiding it better.

Also, please answer my question, what actual, tangible good has this brought for its heavy cost? Why do you take everything this man says for gospel? Why is one, unelected man deciding what does and does not constitute national security?