Poll: Would we all be cool with a female Link?

[zaion]

I would say no because it would kinda shoot the concept of the reincarnation that has been going through the series. (or at least the feel of the reincarnations.)

if you don't think you can be reincarnated as a different gender then you don't know what reincarnation means


who said we can't have a female link game and a zelda/triforce of wisdom game

not quite what i was referring to. the zelda series has always had a very specific form of reincarnation. by your very statement, it begs the question why being left handed is considered in some of the games to be iconic of the hero's spirit. they are always very specific when it comes to the form that the hero takes in each incarnation.

suddenly changing the gender of one of them breaks the set up they have for it.

 

[GloatingSwine]

I've been saying for a million years that "Link" in the next game should be a disguise Zelda wears to save her kingdom.

 

[Dark Knifer]

No, mainly because I'd rather have zelda be a playable character then assume the only way to have a female lead in a zelda game be a gender swapped male for no real reason.

It makes more sense just have zelda be the main character to me as the fanbase would get up in arms forever about this and nintendo are certainly not progressive.

 

[Olas]

I'd support it just because there's no reason why Link couldn't be female

if you don't think you can be reincarnated as a different gender then you don't know what reincarnation means

I'm seeing a lot of posts like this, and I would just like to clarify that there are many, varied, and strong lore reasons that Link, the hero, cannot be female. See my posts above.

I read your gigantic post about Zelda's lore and whatnot and I still don't see why Link can't be female. You're only real reason is that the original hero was male and therefore you've concluded that the spirit must look exclusively for male bodies. That's a leap in logic you made on your own, I see no reason a female couldn't be adequate as well. Men might be stronger (on average) but physical strength has never been shown to be very important in Zelda. and if it was, why is Link so frequently a child? Wouldn't an adult be much stronger?

You also say that there's always "a modicum of attraction" between the 2 characters. The games rarely even hint this to be true, outside of maybe Skyward Sword, and I don't see why it would ever be critical to the story. And even if it was, who's to say Zelda couldn't be a guy, or maybe Link could be a lesbian. There are lots of work arounds if you're creative.

Finally you talk about Link's attributes, courage and heroicism and all that jazz. It seems practically sexist to imply that a female Link couldn't embody these traits as well.

So ya, I disagree completely.

 

[CJ1145]

No, I would actually hate a female Link. Link is Link, and Link is a male. The genderswap is entirely contrived, pointless, and stupid! And it's not because a female main character is bad. I'm going to tell you why it's bad: you already have a female main character. Just make Zelda the playable character for once, instead of Link! Make her be the hero that gets the Master Sword, or uses crazy magical powers on an adventure to save Hyrule. Hell, make Zelda be the one that has to save Link. Totally reverse it for once.

Ignoring the existing material to make a perfectly viable female protagonist in favor of gender-flipping the existing one reeks of political correctness gone mad.

 

[Olas]

No, mainly because I'd rather have zelda be a playable character then assume the only way to have a female lead in a zelda game be a gender swapped male for no real reason.

Zelda would be a very boring playable character wouldn't she? I mean unless her character was completely changed at which point it might as well not be her anymore. Also, it's not really gender swapping if there's no rule saying Link can't or shouldn't be female in the first place.

It makes more sense just have zelda be the main character to me as the fanbase would get up in arms forever about this and nintendo are certainly not progressive.

I'm a member of said fanbase, and I certainly wouldn't get up in arms. Nor can I see the rest of us. In fact I think it would be met rather positively, if it made a stir at all.

And lastly, I question why you think Nintendo isn't progressive. What exactly is your reasoning behind that belief? Nintendo does have a strong sense of tradition, but they also like to combine old ideas with new ones. Take Kirby Epic Yarn, a classic Nintendo character with a completely new aesthetic and play style. Or even the most recent 3D Zelda, which had a reworked set of combat mechanics. It's not like they don't like to experiment with new ideas, and this would be a relatively harmless one.

 

[garcian67]

I'd support it just because there's no reason why Link couldn't be female

if you don't think you can be reincarnated as a different gender then you don't know what reincarnation means

I'm seeing a lot of posts like this, and I would just like to clarify that there are many, varied, and strong lore reasons that Link, the hero, cannot be female. See my posts above.

You're only real reason is that the original hero was male and therefore you've concluded that the spirit must look exclusively for male bodies

who's to say Zelda couldn't be a guy

Finally you talk about Link's attributes, courage and heroicism and all that jazz. It seems practically sexist to imply that a female Link couldn't embody these traits as well.

You clearly misunderstood many points of my post, so instead of going over it all again, I'll just address the last two, given that the first point would require a drill press.

Zelda is a the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia. This is the first reason "Zelda can't be a guy". The second is the long standing connection between feminine and divine.

The discussion of Link's attributes was not a standalone discussion, it was connected, quite intimately, to the intro discussing duality, and placed as a direct foil to Zelda's characteristics because that's how it is in the series The hero complements the reincarnation of the goddess, they complete each other, bolster the weaknesses of one another, and that is why they succeed.

Please, I implore you, read some LoZ lore, digest it, make your own arguments from the source material. Offhand comments prove nothing either way, they just lead to frustration.

I'm seeing a lot of posts like this, and I would just like to clarify that there are many, varied, and strong lore reasons that Link, the hero, cannot be female. See my posts above.

there aren't "many" or "varied" lore reasons, the only reason you even posted is "the male hero spirit might prefer male heroes", which isn't even a reason since its a spirit of heroism or whatever

If that is the only point that got through to you, then either I fail miraculously at teh Engliz or you are reading what you want to read.

even that fact that, unlike Zelda and Ganon, Link isn't the direct reincarnation of any specific deity, just the reincarnation of the first hero means that Link has a better chance of switching genders than any of the others.

Even if he was, it' a deity, they can be whatever they want. Zeus was a cow in one story so...idk why you can't wrap your head around spiritual deities changing physical genders.

Was wondering when the straw men would show up. Let's not discuss Greek Mythology as it has no bearing here. For the record, however, the cow wasn't a reincarnation, it was Zeus choosing to take the form of a cow.

As far as what I can "wrap my head around" I can wrap my head around plenty, I understand (most) every point that has been made here, which is why my very first posts acknowledges that a fem link wouldn't be a terrible addition to the series, a post I doubt you read entirely.

What you can't seem to "wrap your head around" (such an odd expression) is someone who has a different opinion than yourself. All opinions are welcome, that is, indeed, the purpose of a forum.

I would appreciate if someone would bring up lore reasons why a fem link would be acceptable, instead of merely dismissing my arguments offhand and claiming the lore says otherwise, as that is no way to conduct civil debate.

 

[thenoblitt]

no i wouldnt be cool with a female link, for the same reason i wouldnt like a male samus, ruining someones creation to appease and audience or group of people is stupid.

 

[Olas]

Snip

Please, I implore you, read some LoZ lore, digest it, make your own arguments from the source material. Offhand comments prove nothing either way, they just lead to frustration.

Okay, first of all I'm far more familiar with Zelda lore than you probably think. I'm maybe not quite as invested as you are, but I'm not some outsider looking in, so there's no need to tell me that I'm too ignorant to understand you or that I need to educate myself

Okay, with that out of the way I'll respond to your arguments.

Zelda is a the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia. This is the first reason "Zelda can't be a guy".

Only the Zelda in Skyward Sword is specifically stated to be the reincarnation of Hylia, the rest are just descendants who inherent some power through the royal bloodline. I don't think it says anywhere that EVERY Zelda is a reincarnation of the goddess. Not that it even matters since there's no rule saying you can't reincarnate as someone of a differnet gender anyway.

The second is the long standing connection between feminine and divine.

What are you even talking about? Gods can be male or female. In some cultures certain genders may be more attributed to divinity than others but what does that matter to the Zelda series or the matter at hand? It seems like you're taking a bunch of old cultural stereotypes and treating them like they're some sort of unbending set of rules for how a fictional story is allowed to work.

The discussion of Link's attributes was not a standalone discussion, it was connected, quite intimately, to the intro discussing duality, and placed as a direct foil to Zelda's characteristics because that's how it is in the series The hero complements the reincarnation of the goddess, they complete each other, bolster the weaknesses of one another, and that is why they succeed.

And please explain how any of what you just said makes it impossible for Link to be female?

Also I remember you saying the following in your long first post:

Zelda, physically, is timid and weak, yet she knows far beyond her years and is an accomplished sorceress.

Would you describe Sheik as being timid and weak? Would you describe Tetra as being timid and weak? Zelda has often appeared as strong and independent throughout the series, and I don't think her entire character and personality immediately changes the minute she puts on different clothes. In most of the Zelda games I've played she actively helps Link fight Ganondorf, often by firing arrows at him with Link's bow. Of course none of this has anything to do with the gender of the characters, I just thought it was something to point out.

 

[qeinar]

For me they would have to have a good reason for doing it, just doing it for the sake of doing it wouldn't be enough.

 

[Savagezion]

Zelda is a the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia. This is the first reason "Zelda can't be a guy".

Only the Zelda in Skyward Sword is specifically stated to be the reincarnation of Hylia, the rest are just descendants who inherent some power through the royal bloodline. I don't think it says anywhere that EVERY Zelda is a reincarnation of the goddess. Not that it even matters since there's no rule saying you can't reincarnate as someone of a differnet gender anyway.

Woah, now. That isn't how reincarnation works. If Zelda is a reincarnated Goddess then all of them are automatically. Reincarnation means same person, different body. It doesn't have to say it anywhere else. If it was ever officially said that Zelda IS a reincarnated Goddess, then all of them are.

You are maybe thinking of manifestation or possession. Reincarnation refers to multiple people are really the same soul in a different body at different times.

Unless you can grasp that, you have no hope of following the logic behind the rest of garcian's post. Just a heads up.

 

[AuronFtw]

Zelda is a the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia. This is the first reason "Zelda can't be a guy".

Only the Zelda in Skyward Sword is specifically stated to be the reincarnation of Hylia, the rest are just descendants who inherent some power through the royal bloodline. I don't think it says anywhere that EVERY Zelda is a reincarnation of the goddess. Not that it even matters since there's no rule saying you can't reincarnate as someone of a differnet gender anyway.

Woah, now. That isn't how reincarnation works. If Zelda is a reincarnated Goddess then all of them are automatically. Reincarnation means same person, different body. It doesn't have to say it anywhere else. If it was ever officially said that Zelda IS a reincarnated Goddess, then all of them are.

You are maybe thinking of manifestation or possession. Reincarnation refers to multiple people are really the same soul in a different body at different times.

Unless you can grasp that, you have no hope of following the logic behind the rest of garcian's post. Just a heads up.

I realize this is a fantasy game and reincarnation is a fantasy concept, but you're mis-applying it even in this case. If you're not aware, Nintendo released an "official" timeline of the zelda games, showing 3 distinct universes where different actions led to different scenarios. It's very possible for a zelda in one of the timelines to be a reincarnation of a goddess without the other zeldas in other timelines also being such; as it is, link is fucking dead in one of the timelines (allowing ganon to gain power), and the other timelines aren't affected by it (since, in those "universes," link never died or had to be revived).

Assuming every zelda is a goddess if 1 is is based on a false premise. Everything built on top of that premise will be equally wrong. I don't particularly like nintendo's timeline idea, but it's "canon" so if you're trying to have e-fights about it, at least keep the canon in mind.

 

[The Wooster]

New Link is a woman? Hell no. Ruins the character.

Windwaker Link is a midget? Sign me the fuck up, son.

 

[Savagezion]

Zelda is a the reincarnation of the goddess Hylia. This is the first reason "Zelda can't be a guy".

Only the Zelda in Skyward Sword is specifically stated to be the reincarnation of Hylia, the rest are just descendants who inherent some power through the royal bloodline. I don't think it says anywhere that EVERY Zelda is a reincarnation of the goddess. Not that it even matters since there's no rule saying you can't reincarnate as someone of a differnet gender anyway.

Woah, now. That isn't how reincarnation works. If Zelda is a reincarnated Goddess then all of them are automatically. Reincarnation means same person, different body. It doesn't have to say it anywhere else. If it was ever officially said that Zelda IS a reincarnated Goddess, then all of them are.

You are maybe thinking of manifestation or possession. Reincarnation refers to multiple people are really the same soul in a different body at different times.

Unless you can grasp that, you have no hope of following the logic behind the rest of garcian's post. Just a heads up.

I realize this is a fantasy game and reincarnation is a fantasy concept, but you're mis-applying it even in this case. If you're not aware, Nintendo released an "official" timeline of the zelda games, showing 3 distinct universes where different actions led to different scenarios. It's very possible for a zelda in one of the timelines to be a reincarnation of a goddess without the other zeldas in other timelines also being such; as it is, link is fucking dead in one of the timelines (allowing ganon to gain power), and the other timelines aren't affected by it (since, in those "universes," link never died or had to be revived).

Assuming every zelda is a goddess if 1 is is based on a false premise. Everything built on top of that premise will be equally wrong. I don't particularly like nintendo's timeline idea, but it's "canon" so if you're trying to have e-fights about it, at least keep the canon in mind.

Well if you pay attention to the timeline Skyward Sword is where she is stated to be a goddess reincarnated. All alternate timelines branch off of that one. This is stated at the beginning of the timeline before any branching occurs and all branches come from that.

However, that said, what do you guys think reincarnation is? A soul (the thing that makes you, you and me, me) is transferred from one body to a new one. If you are not the reincarnation of the goddess you are not Zelda. That is either true of a character or not. Alternate timelines wont effect that. Your soul is your soul. Without souls, no reincarnation. I don't see what is so hard to grasp about that.

 

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I think despite the vocal douchebags who give the rest of the gaming community a bad name, that if done right a female Link would go over pretty well.
But I'd think it would behoove Nintendo to spotlight Princess Zelda as a protagonist rather than the target of Ganon's ire and rather than substitute Link's gender.
I do feel it would give a different perspective (Sheik anyone?) and a playthrough that would be fun. Just as long as we never ever see a CDi type game ever EVER again. Ye gods did Nintendo drop the ball on that one.

 

[Savagezion]

I think despite the vocal douchebags who give the rest of the gaming community a bad name, that if done right a female Link would go over pretty well.
But I'd think it would behoove Nintendo to spotlight Princess Zelda as a protagonist rather than the target of Ganon's ire and rather than substitute Link's gender.
I do feel it would give a different perspective (Sheik anyone?) and a playthrough that would be fun. Just as long as we never ever see a CDi type game ever EVER again. Ye gods did Nintendo drop the ball on that one.

Wow, really? Anyone who disagrees is a douchebag who gives gaming a bad name... Gotta say, you ain't exactly making the gaming community look fantastic yourself there guy.

 

[Dragonbums]

Well if you pay attention to the timeline Skyward Sword is where she is stated to be a goddess reincarnated.

You do realize that it wasn't up until now that Nintendo even so much as gave a shit about the Zelda timelines right? They even said years ago that they never really cared about which game took place first. However so many people bitched and cried about it to them that they finally slapped something together so people would leave them alone about it.

This is stated at the beginning of the timeline before any branching occurs and all branches come from that.

But branching off is still branching off. When something deviates from the norm that means something different happened from the thing it originated from. Therefore it doesn't automatically invalidate a female Link at all

However, that said, what do you guys think reincarnation is? A soul (the thing that makes you, you and me, me) is transferred from one body to a new one.

A person reincarnated into another form. That can be anything you can possibly imagine. I can reincarnate into the body of a fox. So what would happen if the Goddess reincarnated as a bird? There will obviously still be a Zelda. She will just not be the triforce of wisdom.




If you are not the reincarnation of the goddess you are not Zelda.[/quote]

If Zelda wasn't the reincarnation of the Goddess, then that simply means she does not hold the triforce of Wisdom. She doesn't stop being "Zelda". Zelda's entire existence does not and should not hinge on a single aspect that she has.

That is either true of a character or not. Alternate timelines wont effect that.

Alternate timelines will affect that because they are alternate timelines. In an alternate timeline it is very possible for the Link, holder of the triforce of courage to be the ruler of Hyrule, and Zelda to not.

Which will automatically put you in the position where we basically have a playable female "link" the only difference is that she is Zelda.
You keep acting like everything is set in stone and nothing can change, but there is far too much wiggle room for that to happen.

This on top of the fact that Nintendo does whatever the hell they want for the Zelda series anyway. The timeline theory only matters to people who spend far too much time looking into this stuff.