Poll: Would you mind if Dark Souls had an easy mode

Casual Shinji

Should've gone before we left.
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
17,360
1,502
118
BloatedGuppy said:
There is NOTHING in this game that could not be mitigated through the judicious beefing of player statistics, including hit points, endurance and resistances. Nothing. The fact 98% of the people who play the game moan about how "easy-mode" you can make it by out-leveling the content is testament to that fact. It doesn't matter how reckless you are if you can shrug off hits. Throw in some industry-standard regenerating health and call it a day.
Even that wouldn't make the game that much easier though. At least not enough that you could really call it an EASY MODE. It would probably only make the Boss battles and some of the tougher enemies a bit easier. And there plenty of enviromental hazzards in the game as well, like enemies and contraptions knocking you into a chasm.

And I think what turns a lot of the people off from this game is not that it's hard, but that it's a chore. It's very exhausting to play. I usually just quit playing halfway through New Game +, because at that point I'm dead tired of the whole experience.

The closest thing Dark Souls could have to an easy mode is one where you gain more souls from each enemy killed, meaning more XP, meaning getting stronger faster. There's a ring in the game which does this exact thing. The only way I see an easy mode via patch work is by making this ring's abilities available as a seperate mode.


And since its release the game has been tickered with here and there. Some patches were making certain weapons less ridiculously strong, and there have been others where enemies were actually removed from an area. The latter part still kind of annoys me.
 

chadachada123

New member
Jan 17, 2011
2,310
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
CManator said:
This is what the "pro-easy" side doesn't understand. Very little of the difficulty comes from the damage rates. Lower enemy damage, increase player damage, and I guarantee people will die just as often. Maybe more often since they will confidently charge into a group of enemies and get killed. The game is designed to punish that style of play, regardless of damage dealt. Making easy mode actually easy would require changes to the fundamental design. Enemy behavior, environments, even combat mechanics.

That is why many people are opposed to easy mode. It's not as simple as you are making it out to be, and seasoned players know this.
Oh god, spare me the appeal to authority. You don't get all "seasoned players herp derp" on me, and I won't bring up the fact I've probably been gaming longer than you've been alive, and we'll call it a draw. Unless the game takes a dramatic left turn into shocking new territory, there is nothing in the base mechanics (aside from clunkiness) that creates an unreasonable difficulty that would require addressing via sliders. How many games have you even played, really? How often do you see designers completely re-making levels or completely re-doing AI in order to accommodate difficulty levels? The correct answer to that question is "I haven't, because it basically never happens". Suggesting that it does, or that it would need to in this specific case, is absolutely ludicrous.

There is NOTHING in this game that could not be mitigated through the judicious beefing of player statistics, including hit points, endurance and resistances. Nothing. The fact 98% of the people who play the game moan about how "easy-mode" you can make it by out-leveling the content is testament to that fact. It doesn't matter how reckless you are if you can shrug off hits. Throw in some industry-standard regenerating health and call it a day.

"Seasoned" players. Give me a fucking break. You are not a Naam vet, and this is not rocket science.
You don't understand what he's saying. To play Dark Souls with ANY efficiency whatsoever, you have to Take. Things. Slow. You cannot button-mash.

It's similar to fighting games: If you don't learn about your character's strengths and weaknesses, and expect to win from button-mashing, you are playing it incorrectly. Sliders might let a stupid player win more often, but it won't teach him to play the game the way it is meant to be played, akin to how just slowing down NPCs in a simulator-type racing game won't change the fact that some idiot will always think that drifting around corners is a viable option so long as he wins often enough.
 

Judgement101

New member
Mar 29, 2010
4,156
0
0
If they add one, it should have a different PvP server so all the people on easy are matched with other easy players.
 

BloatedGuppy

New member
Feb 3, 2010
9,572
0
0
chadachada123 said:
You don't understand what he's saying. To play Dark Souls with ANY efficiency whatsoever, you have to Take. Things. Slow. You cannot button-mash.

It's similar to fighting games: If you don't learn about your character's strengths and weaknesses, and expect to win from button-mashing, you are playing it incorrectly. Sliders might let a stupid player win more often, but it won't teach him to play the game the way it is meant to be played, akin to how just slowing down NPCs in a simulator-type racing game won't change the fact that some idiot will always think that drifting around corners is a viable option so long as he wins often enough.
I understand what he's saying just fine. He's making a stupid argument, and attempting to use time spent playing the game as foundation for it. Which is intellectually bankrupt. I know people who spent upwards of 10,000 hours playing some MMOs. It didn't make them experts on game design. All it did was make them experts on what they like.

It bears reminding that I'm playing the goddam thing right now at its intended difficulty and enjoying it, and that I wouldn't want an easier Dark Souls. I just know it wouldn't be particularly hard to implement, and and I don't think my preferences set the base line for the entire gaming community.

viranimus said:
Given that there IS a large portion of the fanbase of this game who IS in fact opposed to easy mode, is there really any compelling reason to include one?
Of course the fanbase is opposed to easy mode. The fanbase for the game are those people who have adapted to the existing difficulty, and either find it appropriate or too easy. Why would those people want an easy mode? This would hardly be the first time in history a game attempted to expand on its core audience by adding additional features or modes of play.

Casual Shinji said:
And there plenty of environmental hazards in the game as well, like enemies and contraptions knocking you into a chasm.
Quicksave/Quickload added to easy mode. Problem mitigated.

Here's an argument I have no problem with:

"I prefer Dark Souls at its present difficulty".

Here's another argument I have no problem with:

"The primary appeal...the developer VISION...for Dark Souls is a challenging, frightening experience".

Here's an argument I DO have a problem with:

"Adding an (optional) easy mode would compromise the essence of what the game is."

Here's another argument I DO have a problem with:

"It would be impossible or difficult to make the game easier without requiring tons of developer resources because...I have no idea. BECAUSE SEASONED GAMERS."

The existence of a numbingly easy "normal" mode in X-Com doesn't compromise my experience on Impossible. Why would the existence of an easy mode in Dark Souls compromise my experience on its intended difficulty? All it does is open the game up to more people. People who might find "easy mode" plenty challenging for their limited skill set.

I've yet to hear a COGENT argument how or why an optional difficulty level I'd never play would make my experience with the difficulty level of my choice less palatable.
 

Mossberg Shotty

New member
Jan 12, 2013
649
0
0
I would absolutely mind. The great thing about Dark Souls, is that nobody *thinks* they can beat it at first. But it forces you to persist and rise to the challenge. And to be honest, if there had been an easy mode in the first one, I probably would have taken it, and cheated myself out of a very rewarding experience.I hope they leave it out of the second one.
 

The White Hunter

Basment Abomination
Oct 19, 2011
3,888
0
0
I'm so fucking sick of these threads.

Know what hope they do? Add a fucking easy mode.

I hope that it's as hard as Demon's Souls. Then I hope that normal is twice as hard as Dark Souls and you have to finish it to unlock easy.
 

TrevHead

New member
Apr 10, 2011
1,458
0
0
maxben said:
It makes sense that a 3rd of the people on the Escapist are selfish unfriendly people who it would suck to play with.
There are always those who want hardcore or nothing, not because it makes a difference to their game but because they just hate other people enjoying the game in a different way than they do. In fact, they hate people enjoying ANY game that does not fit into their hardcore standards.
Actually I bet you will find that most anti-easy voters aren't opposed to difficulty scaling in games in general, hell I've even argued for it's inclusion in other hardcore genres, it's just that I don't want it in every game, especially a Souls game. To argue that any system of play should be in every game ever made is stifling on creativity IMO, there are different ways to make a game easier without cheapening the experience which DS does, with OP weapons like the Drake Sword, Upgrading / Leveling and Co-op.

In my mind we might aswell be arguing that Final Fantasy 7 should have an easy mode.
 

Headdrivehardscrew

New member
Aug 22, 2011
1,660
0
0
TrevHead said:
In my mind we might aswell be arguing that Final Fantasy 7 should have an easy mode.
OK.

Final Fantasy XIII should offer 'interesting' and 'fun' options, then. Maybe even sliders so I can create my own preferred blend of gaming experience.
 

Yoshemo

New member
Jun 23, 2009
1,156
0
0
I do mind. The difficulty is what the series got popular for, plus its part of the atmosphere. Few games were able to give you a great fighting chance and still had an oppressing and heavy atmosphere like Dark Souls. No game has given me that "I overcame the odds" feeling like dark souls has. If it were easy and everyone played it as it were, they'd complain that its a story-less bland game with pretty graphics. I doubt people who just wanted to play a game would read the description of every item and armor set in the game to piece together a story (a great story too) and wouldn't get the right feel of the game itself.
Plus its not even that hard. Its easy to die but with a couple hours of practice, you learn how to not die pretty well
 

Exius Xavarus

Casually hardcore. :}
May 19, 2010
2,064
0
0
CManator said:
The problem is it really is that simple. Walking off a ledge is something people don't often do on purpose. The only place you're in severe danger of walking off a ledge unintentionally is the Giant's Tomb, unless you've got a light source with you. Dark Souls doesn't require a change to fundamental design, all you need to do is make it easier to survive.

Decrease the damage dealt to the player and decrease stamina usage. It makes it harder for enemies to kill you when you've got increase blocking ability(or dodging) and increased raw survivability. That's really all Easy Mode requires.

The way you're putting it, the only way to make an Easy Mode is to turn Dark Souls into Baby's First Challenge.

Mossberg Shotty said:
I would absolutely mind. The great thing about Dark Souls, is that nobody *thinks* they can beat it at first. But it forces you to persist and rise to the challenge. And to be honest, if there had been an easy mode in the first one, I probably would have taken it, and cheated myself out of a very rewarding experience.I hope they leave it out of the second one.
I thought I could beat Dark Souls at first. I dove head first into Dark Souls while everyone else was going on about the game "skull fucking us and pissing in our eye sockets when it's done." The game wants you to think you can't beat it, but all you have to do is go in with a little confidence, a bit of patience and a dash of strategy and you'll do just fine.
 

Brainwreck

New member
Dec 2, 2012
256
0
0
Oh shush.
The game was meant to be played for its difficulty in the first place. That is literally it's stated purpose. It's a weird masochistic approach, but it works because only the most punishing games can give one that feeling of accomplishment that Dark Souls does.
It is, as a direct result, frustrating as shit. And someone without patience will not enjoy it.
Play other games. There's lots of great ones out there that aren't as demanding.
 

thesilentman

What this
Jun 14, 2012
4,513
0
0
Rawne1980 said:
thesilentman said:
NG is supposed to elevate the difficulty of the game and make it more of a challenge. Probably for the first playthrough you could offer easy, but not all of them.
By "new game" I meant the first start not NG+.
I stand corrected. I seriously thought New Game at first.

Easy mode, lower damage done by mobs and bosses, increase health and stamina of player, lower boss/mob health and increase weapon damage ... that is all it needs.
I'd agree, but the fact that you said easy mode without specifying what exactly it constitutes is making me think "skeptical [user]thesilentman[/user] is skeptical".

It does not .. DOES NOT .. destroy what made the game enjoyable for many, THE HARD MODE IS STILL THERE.
No need to go all caps on me. And yes, easy mode does destroy what made the game a cult classic. It get rids of the difficulty that adds to the atmosphere of the game, which I've mentioned for quite a bit now. If Dark Souls didn't have that difficulty, it would have been a generic action RPG with some interesting enemy designs.

And that is the argument that literally makes me laugh at people. "It takes away from the core game" fuck off does it, people are just pissing and whining for the sake of it.
We're pissing and whining as easy mode is a threat to what makes Dark Souls great. Look up for details.

No argument against an easy mode come across well. All it sounds like is "other people want to play with my toys but I won't let them ner ner".
??????

It destroys what makes the game great by ridding it of the main immersion factor. I've even explained this for a couple of times now. Look up again.

burningdragoon said:
thesilentman said:
I dare anyone here to suggest ideas on how to implement an easy mode without compromising what made the game great.
Okay, bear with me here. What if, and this going to sound crazy, there were several different classes you could choose from. And one of those classes, like, and this going to sound crazy, had some big advantages in damage output department. For example, and I'm just spitballing here, some sort of infinite ammo spell (or maybe there's something like a ring that recharges your magic pool or something) that was very powerful to start out with. Of course enemies would still be able to dispatch you quickly as well and obviously you'd still need to grow in skill/patience to beat the whole game, but you'd have an easier time starting off.
The classes are there in Dark Souls. They just affect your starting equipment, which is kinda nice as I know I can fall back to a tried and true Elite Knight build if the game feels like killing me.

For magic? I don't dabble in magic that much, but having a ring that recharges a spell/miracle/etc after reaching a certain amount of souls would seem to work to ease the difficulty.

Exius Xavarus said:
thesilentman said:
Megasnip V.01
If an Easy Mode has to be implemented, I'd prefer it be done in a mirror fashion of Dragon's Dogma. To implement Hard Mode all Capcom did was increase the damage dealt to the player and increase stamina usage.

Ergo, we could reduce stamina usage and decrease damage dealt to the player in order to implement an Easy Mode. I think it's probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it, without ruining the game, because literally all it does is increase survivability.
I haven't played Dragon's Dogma, but I can see a system like that working quite well. Increasing a soul and special item drop rate wouldn't hurt any bit either. And that magic ring that I suggested to [user]burningdragoon[/user] above would be a good idea, I think.

I just would not want to see them compromising the atmosphere of DS, which puts it miles above most games I've played this year (and last).

loa said:
Easy mode already exists, it's called "summoning people" and I like me some coop boss murderfest with overpowered weaponry.
Much more fun than grinding for souls which, in turn, makes my game and the game of the person I helped easier so I don't mind I guess.

If someone summons people to kill ornstein and smough because fuck those guys, that won't "take away" from my achievement of soloing them so I don't even know what people are on about when going on about that.
There is nothing I can say against the sentiment of "fuck those guys" and I will merrily smash their skulls when summoned to do so.

thesilentman said:
No, I wouldn't mind an easy mode, but it has to be more than a difficulty slider. I dare anyone here to suggest ideas on how to implement an easy mode without compromising what made the game great. Go on, I'll wait.
How about speeding the animations up so you don't lie on the ground for 30 seconds when knocked on your ass cause most deaths involve you getting hit once and then slowly standing up so whatever knocked you down has all the time in the world to swing again.

Oh also backstabs in pvp or pvp in general, a way to disable people literally invading your game to ruin it with the same broken crap everyone uses would be dandy too.
Really, nothing of value is lost if random level 1 maxed out pyromancy spammers that literally spend the entire day killing low level chars in the first area just for the sake of being an annoying prick would be disabled.

That right there, a way to disable that broken ass mandatory pvp alone would be a godsend.
Unless you think those things "made the game great".

Another thing would be the possibility to summon npc phantoms at the start of areas so you're not coerced into subscribing to that shitty xbox live gold "service" to access easy mode.
Most of what you're saying deals with the online, which I can't criticize as I haven't played it and prefer Dark Souls offline. I disable GFWL for this (I think that the game does perfectly well played single-player) and the 60 FPS unlocker. Other than that, I can't comment on DS' online.

Other than that, I see no problem with the animations. It's a pretty good rule-of-thumb in Dark Souls that if a weapon looks about the size of you, avoid it as much as possible.
 

Gormech

New member
May 10, 2012
259
0
0
I guess when push comes to shove, the hardcore group will still be hardcore and the casuals will still be casuals. An easy mode isn't entirely out of the question but it'd be nice to have multiple playthroughs eventually meet at the same finality in terms of difficulty to join the two groups together.
 

viranimus

Thread killer
Nov 20, 2009
4,952
0
0
BloatedGuppy said:
viranimus said:
Given that there IS a large portion of the fanbase of this game who IS in fact opposed to easy mode, is there really any compelling reason to include one?
Of course the fanbase is opposed to easy mode. The fanbase for the game are those people who have adapted to the existing difficulty, and either find it appropriate or too easy. Why would those people want an easy mode? This would hardly be the first time in history a game attempted to expand on its core audience by adding additional features or modes of play.
Yes that may be the case, however you have to ask how many of those cases came from changing (and effectively eliminating) the predominant reason for the fanbase to have supported the IP in the first place?

Look at it from a different perspective. What if activision wanted to make call of duty more accessible to those who play fighting games? So what do they do? Remove all of the guns from Call of duty. Regrettably it is kinda like that. To add that easy mode results in effectively killing the IPs defining characteristic in the name of making it more accessible to others, specifically at the expense of those who made the IP successful in the first place and in the process completely changing the IP into something completely different than what the original IP was about.

So my question still stands. What reason is there to justify this? Why would any dev spit in the face of those who made the franchise successful to make it more accessible? That is the question that needs to be answered first. Until the question of "Why?" is answered, there really is no point to even look at "if"
 

Exius Xavarus

Casually hardcore. :}
May 19, 2010
2,064
0
0
thesilentman said:
Exius Xavarus said:
thesilentman said:
Megasnip V.01
If an Easy Mode has to be implemented, I'd prefer it be done in a mirror fashion of Dragon's Dogma. To implement Hard Mode all Capcom did was increase the damage dealt to the player and increase stamina usage.

Ergo, we could reduce stamina usage and decrease damage dealt to the player in order to implement an Easy Mode. I think it's probably the easiest and most effective way to go about it, without ruining the game, because literally all it does is increase survivability.
I haven't played Dragon's Dogma, but I can see a system like that working quite well. Increasing a soul and special item drop rate wouldn't hurt any bit either. And that magic ring that I suggested to [user]burningdragoon[/user] above would be a good idea, I think.

I just would not want to see them compromising the atmosphere of DS, which puts it miles above most games I've played this year (and last).
Well, Dragon's Dogma also added bonuses for choosing to play Hard Mode. Increased gold drops(even the weakest enemies have a chance to drop a Giant Coin Pouch(10k)) and double XP so you level twice as fast. Not to exclude the Abyssinal Outfit(just a clothing top) for getting halfway through and a Duke's Outfit for beating the game.

To be honest, I can't say I'd want to add extra bonuses and rewards for playing on easy. Perhaps allow them to switch to Normal Mode if they'd like. But to avoid cheesing the bosses, make it so that they can switch to Normal Mode at any point in the game they want but have to start from the beginning if they want to go back to Easy(this is not a NG+, it's simply restarting the game from the beginning).

I think that would work out well. That's just me, though.
 

Blue Musician

New member
Mar 23, 2010
3,344
0
0
No. I don't want an easy mode, and I want Dark Souls II to have the same difficulty level as the original Dark Souls.

Dark Souls isn't hard. I died more times in Call of Duty 2 in Veteran difficulty and in the COD4 multiplayer than what I have in Dark Souls.
 

burningdragoon

Warrior without Weapons
Jul 27, 2009
1,935
0
0
thesilentman said:
burningdragoon said:
thesilentman said:
I dare anyone here to suggest ideas on how to implement an easy mode without compromising what made the game great.
Okay, bear with me here. What if, and this going to sound crazy, there were several different classes you could choose from. And one of those classes, like, and this going to sound crazy, had some big advantages in damage output department. For example, and I'm just spitballing here, some sort of infinite ammo spell (or maybe there's something like a ring that recharges your magic pool or something) that was very powerful to start out with. Of course enemies would still be able to dispatch you quickly as well and obviously you'd still need to grow in skill/patience to beat the whole game, but you'd have an easier time starting off.
The classes are there in Dark Souls. They just affect your starting equipment, which is kinda nice as I know I can fall back to a tried and true Elite Knight build if the game feels like killing me.

For magic? I don't dabble in magic that much, but having a ring that recharges a spell/miracle/etc after reaching a certain amount of souls would seem to work to ease the difficulty.
I was referencing the Royalty class from Demon's Souls, which is set up exactly as I described. It's also the easiest class to start with in the game.
 

Colt47

New member
Oct 31, 2012
1,065
0
0
Actually, forget easy mode: can we please have the items needed to unlock areas in the over world and not in the pocket of a smith who charges 20,000 souls? I mean Shao Kahn would cringe at that price.
 

Taurus Vis

New member
Jan 12, 2013
62
0
0
Colt47 said:
Actually, forget easy mode: can we please have the items needed to unlock areas in the over world and not in the pocket of a smith who charges 20,000 souls? I mean Shao Kahn would cringe at that price.
That is like, half a boss. Just buy it after the Gargoyles.
 

Rose and Thorn

New member
May 4, 2012
906
0
0
I wouldn't mind it, but I probably wouldn't use it. I kind of like the idea of a video game that is very difficult without any option to turn down the difficulty. Still, I wouldn't mind either way.