Can't, because that's a right argument, but it still doesn't solve the "RPG" argument we have here. So far, everyone's definition is right. But I still defend mine. So does everyone.King of the Sandbox said:
Poll: Would you play an RPG that hides stats from the player?
- Thread starter Brawndo
- Start date
RPGs on computers started out and evolved from adaptations of pen and paper RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons. The reason you have numbers and skills is because this is the easiest way to go about presenting an RPG to a player: just show them the behind-the-scenes stats. It's not the only way to go about this.s69-5 said:
If you took Nethack and veiled the stats and gaming abstractions, it would still mechanically be the same game.
Just play any random JRPG and ignore the numbers then this becomes exactly the idea.Brawndo said:
Personally, I think it would be quite fun. Maybe you could go one step further and have your character not start the game amazing at everything, but still needing some work, eh? Perhaps if you've never used a shield, your character doesn't know what in the holy hell he's doing, and just kinda awkwardly holds and blocks with it, then once you hold it long enough, your strength builds in your left/right arm, and you begin to feel more comfortable in it, while blocking enough gradually teaches you how to defend properly, without hurting or even breaking your arm.
As for those who are disagreeing that this should be done, please settle down. If you don't like the idea, fair enough. The stats and such are not going away, this idea will simply branch another sub-genre of RPGs. Simple as that. You don't need to argue about what is and is not an RPG (though it's rather loosely defined and all your arguments are valid) you just need to simply state whether you would or would not want this. If you don't, don't play it. If you do, buy it if it's made.
End of discussion.
As for those who are disagreeing that this should be done, please settle down. If you don't like the idea, fair enough. The stats and such are not going away, this idea will simply branch another sub-genre of RPGs. Simple as that. You don't need to argue about what is and is not an RPG (though it's rather loosely defined and all your arguments are valid) you just need to simply state whether you would or would not want this. If you don't, don't play it. If you do, buy it if it's made.
End of discussion.
Sorry, I didn't imply that you were against stats, just asked if your definition of "RPG" meant "choices".ChupathingyX said:
I think there are two main definitions of RPG:
1) Games in general, any game that you play, games that you get to play by pre-defined characters.
2) RPG Genre. RPG Genre has a few sub-definitions:
a) DND style.
b) Diablo style
c) etc.
If you're talking about the RPG genre, sure HL2 and Halo are clearly NOT RPG games.
But they are RPG games in the end, because you play a role that's pre-defined.
Because "Action" is not as general as "role playing". Every action game is an RPG game, but not every RPG game is an action game.
Well, one stel sword might be sharper than another steel sword, but as the player, you'd have to be able to test that to find out...
One blacksmith might be more skilled than another too.
So this should influence their reputation as a blacksmith somehow, so you can figure out wich one makes the best weapons/armour.
A player should also be able to test whether or not his armour is too thin or too bulky in some places.
Of course, in some cases this would be obvious, in others, you need to be used to checking your armour and weapons to notice mistakes the blacksmith made.
One blacksmith might be more skilled than another too.
So this should influence their reputation as a blacksmith somehow, so you can figure out wich one makes the best weapons/armour.
A player should also be able to test whether or not his armour is too thin or too bulky in some places.
Of course, in some cases this would be obvious, in others, you need to be used to checking your armour and weapons to notice mistakes the blacksmith made.
I did. It's called Mass Effect 2.
Even though it claimed you could upgrade certain things there was really no way to tell if anything did anything and any numbers it did give you (if you could find them) were meaningless abstracts. Even paragon/renegade don't count because you never had a way of measuring how much you need per option.
Even though it claimed you could upgrade certain things there was really no way to tell if anything did anything and any numbers it did give you (if you could find them) were meaningless abstracts. Even paragon/renegade don't count because you never had a way of measuring how much you need per option.
I'm curious to know if having clearly numbered but vaguely described statistics counts the same thing as no numbers for the player to look at. Probably not.
Back on topic: Yes, I'm all for it. Roleplaying should be reacting equal parts to the character you have and the context of the scene. With no numerical stats, you'll have to focus on decision making to define your character, even if those decisions are as shallow as "preferred method for slaying overgrown cellar rats". More importantly, getting someone to actually roleplay in an RPG is a futzy process when they refuse to see their character sheet as anything more than a min/maxing equation. Tossing those numbers into the great unknown will hopefully be the first step in a twinker's detox program.
Note to self: Start a tabletop gaming club billing itself as a WoW addict recovery center.
Back on topic: Yes, I'm all for it. Roleplaying should be reacting equal parts to the character you have and the context of the scene. With no numerical stats, you'll have to focus on decision making to define your character, even if those decisions are as shallow as "preferred method for slaying overgrown cellar rats". More importantly, getting someone to actually roleplay in an RPG is a futzy process when they refuse to see their character sheet as anything more than a min/maxing equation. Tossing those numbers into the great unknown will hopefully be the first step in a twinker's detox program.
Note to self: Start a tabletop gaming club billing itself as a WoW addict recovery center.
I like this idea in theory, but I don't think I'd like it in execution.
It would feel like a grind to test each new item extensively to get a feel on how much better it is against compared to your party. It would take a while just to compare against one character...let alone the typical 10 or so that makes up your typical RPG roster.
Also, while you remove the 'roll-play' from the game you also suddenly remove the realism as well. Why wouldn't the character themselves realize that they are proficient in one handed fighting? I suppose the entire party could be composed of people with amnesia...or they're all so cocky they feel they are superior to one another in every conceivable way.
Personally, I'm a min-maxer. I've always been that way, it's the D&D character creation takes 5 hours minimum personality of mine. I wouldn't like this concept primarily because of the grind in testing every aspect of the RPG on every single party member in order to be successful at the game.
It would feel like a grind to test each new item extensively to get a feel on how much better it is against compared to your party. It would take a while just to compare against one character...let alone the typical 10 or so that makes up your typical RPG roster.
Also, while you remove the 'roll-play' from the game you also suddenly remove the realism as well. Why wouldn't the character themselves realize that they are proficient in one handed fighting? I suppose the entire party could be composed of people with amnesia...or they're all so cocky they feel they are superior to one another in every conceivable way.
Personally, I'm a min-maxer. I've always been that way, it's the D&D character creation takes 5 hours minimum personality of mine. I wouldn't like this concept primarily because of the grind in testing every aspect of the RPG on every single party member in order to be successful at the game.
I'd like to play a game that lets me figure things out that way, but I also intensely enjoy fumbling around wih stat optimizations, so I'd like to have a pie and ravenously devour it too
You mean like every other game ever made? I think you fail to realize how games work. There are just as many numbers being crunched in the background whether or not its an RPG. Also, I feel obligated to make the blanket statement that everyone is ignorant of what defines an RPG because its name is so misleading.
This sounds like a very intriguing idea, however I think there would still be some problems with it. In real life its much easier to get an idea of the quality of say, a sword, because you can hold it, feel its weight, its balance, the sharpness of its edge etc. Thats something that you cant really do when you are looking at a picture of a sword on your computer screen (which is why they give you numbers for weight, piercing damage etc). Similarly its much easier in real life to tell how much you are improving at a certain skill because the action just feels a lot more natural when you have had some practice.
I would lean in the direction of an rpg where items and skills are described qualitatively rather than quantitatively, so that you would still have a good idea of what items/skills are higher than others, but you wouldn't know exactly.
I would lean in the direction of an rpg where items and skills are described qualitatively rather than quantitatively, so that you would still have a good idea of what items/skills are higher than others, but you wouldn't know exactly.
A munchkin is a person who seeks to become the strongest living being in the game and trys to get the best gear and experience orbs faster than anyone else. When they can kill a demi-god in one attack, then they have won the game.s69-5 said: