Poll: Would you play an RPG that hides stats from the player?

RhanathShadowhand

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King of the Sandbox said:
Disagree again. Sure, in SOME simplistic, older RPG's like the original Final Fantasy, you were stuck with it. but then they introduced jobs. The job system was designed very much for this specific reason.

Argue that.
Can't, because that's a right argument, but it still doesn't solve the "RPG" argument we have here. So far, everyone's definition is right. But I still defend mine. So does everyone.
 

ThrobbingEgo

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s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
RPGs on computers started out and evolved from adaptations of pen and paper RPGs like Dungeons and Dragons. The reason you have numbers and skills is because this is the easiest way to go about presenting an RPG to a player: just show them the behind-the-scenes stats. It's not the only way to go about this.

If you took Nethack and veiled the stats and gaming abstractions, it would still mechanically be the same game.
 

ChupathingyX

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RhanathShadowhand said:
So you say what makes an RPG is the choice but not the stats?
How about an RPG game that has no choices? Take Shadowflare for example, that's a straight-forward RPG game. Yes It's an odd example but still. And Diablo too, it's prety much straight-forward, you don't get to choose, but you create your own character, so it's an RPG game. Because you can create your own character. And now quoting myself again(sorry for that):
And, what do actors do? Do they "act"? What is acting anyway? Having a role in a movie/play and playing that role? So by that definition can't you say "Acting" is "Role playing"? So "Role Playing" is playing a role that has been pre-defined. Actors don't get to choose their characters if they accept the job.
Actually, when you create a character, it's still a pre-defined character, just not defined by the developers, but you.
Actually I don't think I ever said I had anything against stats, in fact I think stats should stay. So basically my response to the OP is..."no", leaning towards "sort of".

I have nothing against stats in RPGs, and I know I said that having choice in an RPG is important, it isn't completely necessary. Being able to create your own character with their own personality is still role-playing, however, even by that definition games such as Halo and HL2 still wouldn't be RPGs to me.

As for the name "role-playing game", the name is not very clear and can be applied to many things. Look at "action", what makes an action game (or movie) an action game? Simply talking to someone, walking down a sidewalk, lighting a cigarette and petting your dog are all "actions" so why isn't every game/film considered an "action game/film"?
 

Samurai Silhouette

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Brawndo said:
In real life, if I was trying to pull together some friends to make a soccer team, it's not like I could know that Johnny has a Strength 6 and Speed 4, and Suzie has Strength 3 and Intelligence 8. Instead, I have to make inferences based on observing and interacting with them, and even then I might be wrong - Suzie might be stronger than Johnny even if he looks bigger.

Would you play an RPG that functioned the same way?
Just play any random JRPG and ignore the numbers then this becomes exactly the idea.
 

RyanKaufman

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Personally, I think it would be quite fun. Maybe you could go one step further and have your character not start the game amazing at everything, but still needing some work, eh? Perhaps if you've never used a shield, your character doesn't know what in the holy hell he's doing, and just kinda awkwardly holds and blocks with it, then once you hold it long enough, your strength builds in your left/right arm, and you begin to feel more comfortable in it, while blocking enough gradually teaches you how to defend properly, without hurting or even breaking your arm.

As for those who are disagreeing that this should be done, please settle down. If you don't like the idea, fair enough. The stats and such are not going away, this idea will simply branch another sub-genre of RPGs. Simple as that. You don't need to argue about what is and is not an RPG (though it's rather loosely defined and all your arguments are valid) you just need to simply state whether you would or would not want this. If you don't, don't play it. If you do, buy it if it's made.

End of discussion.
 

RhanathShadowhand

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ChupathingyX said:
Actually I don't think I ever said I had anything against stats, in fact I think stats should stay. So basically my response to the OP is..."no", leaning towards "sort of".
Sorry, I didn't imply that you were against stats, just asked if your definition of "RPG" meant "choices".

I have nothing against stats in RPGs, and I know I said that having choice in an RPG is important, it isn't completely necessary. Being able to create your own character with their own personality is still role-playing, however, even by that definition games such as Halo and HL2 still wouldn't be RPGs to me.
I think there are two main definitions of RPG:
1) Games in general, any game that you play, games that you get to play by pre-defined characters.
2) RPG Genre. RPG Genre has a few sub-definitions:
a) DND style.
b) Diablo style
c) etc.

If you're talking about the RPG genre, sure HL2 and Halo are clearly NOT RPG games.
But they are RPG games in the end, because you play a role that's pre-defined.

As for the name "role-playing game", the name is not very clear and can be applied to many things. Look at "action", what makes an action game (or movie) an action game? Simply talking to someone, walking down a sidewalk, lighting a cigarette and petting your dog are all "actions" so why isn't every game/film considered an "action game/film"?
Because "Action" is not as general as "role playing". Every action game is an RPG game, but not every RPG game is an action game.
 

Aizsaule

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Oct 10, 2010
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Make a skyrim mod of this, it sounds like this would really increase immersion.
 

Lazy Kitty

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Well, one stel sword might be sharper than another steel sword, but as the player, you'd have to be able to test that to find out...
One blacksmith might be more skilled than another too.
So this should influence their reputation as a blacksmith somehow, so you can figure out wich one makes the best weapons/armour.
A player should also be able to test whether or not his armour is too thin or too bulky in some places.
Of course, in some cases this would be obvious, in others, you need to be used to checking your armour and weapons to notice mistakes the blacksmith made.
 

PurePareidolia

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Nov 26, 2008
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I did. It's called Mass Effect 2.

Even though it claimed you could upgrade certain things there was really no way to tell if anything did anything and any numbers it did give you (if you could find them) were meaningless abstracts. Even paragon/renegade don't count because you never had a way of measuring how much you need per option.
 

loudestmute

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I'm curious to know if having clearly numbered but vaguely described statistics counts the same thing as no numbers for the player to look at. Probably not.

Back on topic: Yes, I'm all for it. Roleplaying should be reacting equal parts to the character you have and the context of the scene. With no numerical stats, you'll have to focus on decision making to define your character, even if those decisions are as shallow as "preferred method for slaying overgrown cellar rats". More importantly, getting someone to actually roleplay in an RPG is a futzy process when they refuse to see their character sheet as anything more than a min/maxing equation. Tossing those numbers into the great unknown will hopefully be the first step in a twinker's detox program.

Note to self: Start a tabletop gaming club billing itself as a WoW addict recovery center.
 

babinro

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I like this idea in theory, but I don't think I'd like it in execution.

It would feel like a grind to test each new item extensively to get a feel on how much better it is against compared to your party. It would take a while just to compare against one character...let alone the typical 10 or so that makes up your typical RPG roster.

Also, while you remove the 'roll-play' from the game you also suddenly remove the realism as well. Why wouldn't the character themselves realize that they are proficient in one handed fighting? I suppose the entire party could be composed of people with amnesia...or they're all so cocky they feel they are superior to one another in every conceivable way.

Personally, I'm a min-maxer. I've always been that way, it's the D&D character creation takes 5 hours minimum personality of mine. I wouldn't like this concept primarily because of the grind in testing every aspect of the RPG on every single party member in order to be successful at the game.
 

Latinidiot

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I'd like to play a game that lets me figure things out that way, but I also intensely enjoy fumbling around wih stat optimizations, so I'd like to have a pie and ravenously devour it too
 

Twilight_guy

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Nov 24, 2008
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You mean like every other game ever made? I think you fail to realize how games work. There are just as many numbers being crunched in the background whether or not its an RPG. Also, I feel obligated to make the blanket statement that everyone is ignorant of what defines an RPG because its name is so misleading.
 

Pearwood

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King of the Sandbox said:
Uhm... Pokemanz has stats.

LOTS of them, that Pokemaniacs argue over.
I was talking about EVs and IVs. Natures to a lesser extent too although they've at least highlighted the affected stats since Gen 4.
 

caselj01

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This sounds like a very intriguing idea, however I think there would still be some problems with it. In real life its much easier to get an idea of the quality of say, a sword, because you can hold it, feel its weight, its balance, the sharpness of its edge etc. Thats something that you cant really do when you are looking at a picture of a sword on your computer screen (which is why they give you numbers for weight, piercing damage etc). Similarly its much easier in real life to tell how much you are improving at a certain skill because the action just feels a lot more natural when you have had some practice.

I would lean in the direction of an rpg where items and skills are described qualitatively rather than quantitatively, so that you would still have a good idea of what items/skills are higher than others, but you wouldn't know exactly.
 

David Bjur

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Nov 21, 2011
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s69-5 said:
King of the Sandbox said:
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
I'd just like to disagree with you very adamantly.

What you're describing is 'Roll-playing' or 'munchkinism', and goes against everything that role-playing is, at least, in my opinion.
I don't even know what this "munchkinism" is. Is it supposed to be an insult or something?

Either way, you're right, it is your opinion. Too bad it's incorrect in terms of video games. Video game RPGs have always been about stats/levels/numbers. Perception of choice, talking with townsfolk, etc are just a facet of some RPGs. When a reviewer talks about "RPG elements" in games from other genres, they are certainly not talking about making choices - they are talking about stats/numbers and levelling.

Without stats and numbers, the game ceases to be an RPG and becomes an action/adventure game.
A munchkin is a person who seeks to become the strongest living being in the game and trys to get the best gear and experience orbs faster than anyone else. When they can kill a demi-god in one attack, then they have won the game.