Poll: Would you play an RPG that hides stats from the player?

Sinathor

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The more stats and information, the better. If you find it confusing, play another genre. Almost all classic RPGs have been really stat-heavy and that's how they still should be. If you take away stats, they stop being RPGs.

This was probably my biggest disappointment with Skyrim, and one of the reasons why I didn't really feel like playing more of it. It feels like an action game and not an RPG.
 

Psudo

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I'd like an RPG where stats are hidden but can be roughly determined by appearance (strength adds muscle mass or whatever), in-game tests (I can swim across this pond faster than you, so I'm a better swimmer.) or magic/abilities. Part of any talent should be the the ability to tell whether the other guy is using more advanced techniques.

Or everyone could wear heads-up displays that rate an opponent from zero to over nine thousand.

nikki191 said:
we love our numbers, its just a way to keep track of progression in the table top game.
Part of the joy of computers is that they handle the numbers for us. If a game can clearly communicate the same information visually ingame, isn't that inherently a more immersive, better experience?

If.
 

Macrobstar

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s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
Im just gonna say this...

The weapons in COD all have stats
 

JoesshittyOs

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Yeah probably. Fable 2 did something along the lines of that, and even though the latest game was a disaster, I still kinda sorta worked.

Your character develops based on how much you use each thing. I liked the magic tattoo things that you got, so I used magic much more than I really cared for. It was very rewarding to see your character develop from how you played.
 

Sinathor

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Macrobstar said:
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
Im just gonna say this...

The weapons in COD all have stats
Way to completely miss the point of everything he said.
 

Eventidal

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Nov 11, 2009
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They could do what Monster Hunter does, in combat. When you strike a monster, the more powerful the hit, the flashier the visuals on the strike. There's a visible delay as your blade/hammer/whatnot makes contact, and that delay is longer the more powerful the blow. The red flash and other effects also get bigger, and the sound changes a bit. In this way, you can tell by the feel of it if you're hitting a weak spot or if you're not doing much damage.
I think an RPG without explicit stats could do quite well. It's something I would have questioned a generation or two ago, but now I think we as an industry are advanced enough to pull it off and make it good.
 

Macrobstar

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Sinathor said:
Macrobstar said:
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
Im just gonna say this...

The weapons in COD all have stats
Way to completely miss the point of everything he said.
"Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG" plenty of games have stats, whats so magical about them that they gift the title of RPG to a game
 

King of the Sandbox

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Jan 22, 2010
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Sinathor said:
Macrobstar said:
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
Im just gonna say this...

The weapons in COD all have stats
Way to completely miss the point of everything he said.
Way to miss the irony.
 

Joccaren

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An interesting idea that I think only Indie devs will ever make. All the major publishers are in it for wide audience appeal, and something like this would just confuse a lot of people, where its simpler to just be told you are good or bad at something. I think there may have been games similar to this that I played a while back, and I'll see if I can dig any of them up.

Things like how much a wooden shield blocks, and how much it slows you down, would easily be found by players and put online through doing calculations. People have done it for bullet drop, accuracy and scope zoom and such on BF:BC2, and I don't doubt in other games too. Items would become common knowledge eventually, and some sneaky bugger would likely look through the code to see how the level up system, and other systems, work, then use that info to figure out their rank in each stat, then know when they are levelling it. So really, the secret would eventually be spoiled, but only for those who want it to be.

Which leads in to something that might work: a 'hardcore' option for modern RPGs where such info is hidden from you. Can be turned on and off in the menu, and will hide all stat info and item info from you.
 

starkiller212

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Dec 23, 2010
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Meh, as long as there were still stats in the background they would eventually be figured out--and in the meantime you'd suffer in combat and other situations. Trial-and-error is a remarkably unfun gameplay mechanic, IMHO, and it sounds like that would be the only consistent way to learn what works and what doesn't.

I would play a game where only a few, obvious stats really matter and don't need to be seen by the player. For example, if there were only a few weapon choices, then obviously the dagger would be faster than the battleaxe, but would also have less reach. Such a game would have to have a greater focus on skill and realistic tactics, making it more of an action game anyway.

But ultimately in an RPG, I'd like to be able to take Suzie along with me because I find her interesting, rather than being practically forced to take whichever companion I believe is most effective (due to hidden or explicit stats).
 

4RM3D

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I have had the same discussion a week ago:

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/9.325360-What-makes-a-game-a-RPG?page=1

In short:

pg.shadowrunner said:
I hate people who use the 'roleplaying' argument, it's inane. Games will never allow the absolute freedom to 'roleplay', nor does playing as a digital avatar make a game an RPG.

The term RPG refers to gameplay elements borrowed from DnD and other tabletop games, the only element of said games that could be fully replicated in video games. It was originated by Richard Garriot's Ultima series, and the Wizardry series, which later inspired the first true "JRPG' as we know it, Dragon Quest. Therefore, games that continue from that lineage, and share that gameplay- level ups, epic quests, character growth and story, customization, etc., are RPGs. Not all games that HAVE those elements are RPGs, but the culmination of all these elements do. That's why Final Fantasy is an RPG, and why Skyrim is an RPG, and why Call of Duty or Gran Turismo are NOT RPGs.
And:

Therumancer said:
RPGS are all about statistics determining the results of actions, rather than the abillities of the player. The idea being that in a regular game you can't get past your basic limitations as a person, such as being weak, slow, dumb, or inherantly unlikable, in an RPG the idea is that someone can effectively take on the role of a character that is nothing like themselves and control it indirectly.

To understand what RPGs are you have to look at where they were invented, which also explains the meaning of the term. They did not just appear magically one day with an unknown origin, indeed we know pretty much where and when they were invented, and even who made them popular and put them into circulation.

RPGS are the child of wargames, which was where people would sit down and command armies to similate historical battles using sand tables and a lot of minatures, with statistics to represent each piece, and dice to determine the roll of fortune as to say whether an unreliable weapon like matchlocks were going to fire. As time went on they moved from historical simulation, into alternative history, and then eventually into pure fantasy as people found ways to try and simulate things like orcs and elves using the same numbers. Due to the price and complexity of entry you started also seeing these games reduce in scale from massive clashing armies, down to smaller, skirmish based confrontations where there was an increasing focus on invidual units and equipment. This eventually turned into the idea of games where each player would take on the role of a specific warrior and conduct the battle purely with statistics and dice.
 

Metaik

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I think that the whole no stats more intuition idea would lead to a pretty damn good game. I imagine there would however, have to be a few changes to certain aspects of the gameplay (for those lacking common sense) to kind of provide the player with a bit of knowledge on which to base their decision of, for example, which axe to keep, but I reckon this could be easily achieved by way of something as simple as including a book like 'Notes of A Blacksmith' or something to give an overview of the different metal kinds, eg. elven, steel or dwarven (can you tell I've been playing Skyrim a bit).

It would increase the immersion factor, but I guess would require you to study what you intend to use, which when you think about it would probably be quicker than opening your inventory to check equipment every time you find something shinier.

As stated before this game direction does require that the player has a decent reservoir of common sense to draw from, and from what I've seen of most people they must be suffering from a drought, so all in all, I'm in favour of one being made to test the water but wouldn't be to surprised if it didn't catch on.
 

Stublore

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Hell no!!!
I like stats!
I love trying to build my character and will spend many hours saving "stat points" before I spend them.
I don't give a flying F**K about looks, looks are irrelevant.
I'll happily look live a transvestite harlequin who got dressed while tripping on LSD if it means better stats.
Appearance is nothing in video games, it is all about the numbers.

The thing is, computer games as a medium do not allow you to truly RolePlay.
They are like everything else on computers, basically a mathematical representation of something else. What makes a RolePlaying game, regrettably gets lost in this process. True RolePlaying can only be done with Pen and Paper, in which stats are or rather, can be a guideline, rather than as with computer games hard and fast rules as it were.
Once you realise and accept this what you are left with is STATS!!! :).

Let me again say:
I'll happily look live a transvestite harlequin who got dressed while tripping on LSD if it means better stats..
 
Dec 27, 2010
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s69-5 said:
....the fact that there are currently no RPGs that don't include stats and numbers...
The Legend of Zelda. Just saying.

OT: Sounds interesting, I'd certainly try it, although I'd worry about whether that's really all that practical.
 

JesterRaiin

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Brawndo said:
Would you play an RPG that functioned the same way?
Sure. Full stats or no stats - that's no difference for me as long as the system works properly.
 

WorriedSandwich

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Nov 23, 2011
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I already do. Pokemon games hide pretty much all important stats from the player, and only shows you the end result.
 

King of the Sandbox

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WorriedSandwich said:
I already do. Pokemon games hide pretty much all important stats from the player, and only shows you the end result.
...are you serious?

Like... for reals? Because I'm pretty sure you're given a laundry list of stats and their improvements when they level up, not to mention all the info in the Pokedex. Trust me, even the Pokemon wiki's get pretty deep into stats and min/maxing in Pokemanz.
 

Something Amyss

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King of the Sandbox said:
I'd just like to disagree with you very adamantly.

What you're describing is 'Roll-playing' or 'munchkinism', and goes against everything that role-playing is, at least, in my opinion.
And if this were a tabletop board discussing tabletop RPGs, I'd totally agree with you.

But what the term means for video games diverges greatly. Complaining about "munchkinism" in video game RPGs is up there with complaining about guns in FPS.