Poll: Would you play an RPG that hides stats from the player?

zxvcasdfqwerzxcv

New member
Nov 19, 2009
126
0
0
It would certainly be a different kind of RPG, more akin to real life!
It would only work with the Elder Scrolls system whereby in using skills you get better at them.
Hide all the numbers of the skills and the maths behind everything and know you've only gotten better at a skill by observing an improvement in the skill, e.g. character runs a lot; over time the length of time of sprinting increases. I like the idea a lot, though I imagine it could be difficult to implement for a lot of things.

Also it would only work in a very rich gameworld with a lot of content.
 

Jayben Tibbles

New member
Sep 12, 2011
15
0
0
Dark Souls is a good example, it's unapologetically hard, and the lack of stats would help that, maybe have some NPC's to explain the relative strength of various weapons that could be complicated with dishonest salesmen to keep it interesting.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
0
0
s69-5 said:
King of the Sandbox said:
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
I'd just like to disagree with you very adamantly.

What you're describing is 'Roll-playing' or 'munchkinism', and goes against everything that role-playing is, at least, in my opinion.
I don't even know what this "munchkinism" is. Is it supposed to be an insult or something?

Either way, you're right, it is your opinion. Too bad it's incorrect in terms of video games. Video game RPGs have always been about stats/levels/numbers. Perception of choice, talking with townsfolk, etc are just a facet of some RPGs. When a reviewer talks about "RPG elements" in games from other genres, they are certainly not talking about making choices - they are talking about stats/numbers and levelling.

Without stats and numbers, the game ceases to be an RPG and becomes an action/adventure game.
Definition of a RPG video game right here.
Role-playing video games (commonly referred to as role-playing games or RPGs) are a video game genre with origins in pen-and-paper role-playing games[1] such as Dungeons & Dragons, using much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics. The player in RPGs controls one character, or several adventuring party members, fulfilling one or many quests. The major similarities with pen-and-paper games involve developed story-telling and narrative elements, player character development, complexity, as well as replayability and immersion. Electronic medium removes the necessity for a gamemaster and increases combat resolution speed. RPGs have evolved from simple text-based console-window games into visually rich 3D experiences.
It doesn't say anything about stats... What to make of this?
 

WorriedSandwich

New member
Nov 23, 2011
115
0
0
King of the Sandbox said:
WorriedSandwich said:
I already do. Pokemon games hide pretty much all important stats from the player, and only shows you the end result.
...are you serious?

Like... for reals? Because I'm pretty sure you're given a laundry list of stats and their improvements when they level up, not to mention all the info in the Pokedex. Trust me, even the Pokemon wiki's get pretty deep into stats and min/maxing in Pokemanz.
Well, I play pokemon competitively (don't judge), so I'm familiar with all the ins and outs of the pokemon stat system. Let me try to explain:

First are the base stats. Base stats are the same for every pokemon in a species, and there is a different base stat for every stat (like hp, attack, special defense, etc.). For example, every Electrode has a blazing fast speed base stat of 140, while every Slowbro crawls around with a base stat of 30. This is why a Slowbro will never be faster than an Electrode of the same level.

Then there are the Individual Values, or IV's for short. They are, like the name suggests, individual for every seperate pokemon, and seperate for every stat. They can range between 0 (worst) and 31 (best). For example, a Pikachu with a speed IV of 28 will have a higher speed stat than a Pikachu with a speed IV of 11, provided they are the same level, have the same nature and have been trained in the same way (I'll get back on that). IV's are generated randomly when you catch a wild pokemon, but can be manipulated through breeding.

Next up, there are the Effort Values, or EV's. Unlike the IV's or base stats, they are not set, but start at 0 and increase during training. Whenever you defeat a pokemon, your pokemon recieves EV's in the stat the pokemon you defeated was specialized in. For example, defeating an Electrode will give your pokemon 2 speed EV's. The more speed EV's your pokemon has, the better it's speed stat will be (at level 100, 4 EV's = 1 stat point). However, a pokemon can only have 252 EV's in a single stat, and 510 EV's overall.

Lastly, there are natures. While the nature itself is visible, it's effect isn't really made clear. Basically, a nature raises one stat by 10% and lowers another with 10%, or does nothing. I.E. A modest nature increases special attack and lowers attack, while a gentle nature changes nothing (technically, it raises and lowers the same stat).

The stats your pokemon has are the conclusion of a difficult equation involving all these factors.

Phew, that ended up much longer than I expected. If you want some more info, you can look at gamefaqs.com or smogon.com (pretty much the site for competitive pokemon). Hope I could help!

EDIT: also, there is happiness, which dictates the power of the moves Return and Frustration.
 

Sorafrosty

New member
Nov 19, 2009
151
0
0
Yeah, I definitely would play that. It sounds like a lot of fun, but, as other people have said, in a frustrating way. Then again, it would pose a challenge, and it would sort of be more realistic that way ;) Something I would very much like to see...
 

Numb1lp

New member
Jan 21, 2009
968
0
0
s69-5 said:
Well, since the numbers are what make it an RPG, I'm gonna say: Emphatic no.

Who the hell plays an RPG to not understand the stats behind item A or character B. That would make it an action game... and not an RPG.

Edit: People on this site seem very confused as to what is an RPG (video game). Sorry, but RPG may be a misnomer, but the numbers are still what make it so. "Role play", that is more akin to improv acting, is better suited to the other kind of RP - table top.

Remove the stats and it ceases to be an RPG.
The way I see it, it isn't that the stats are gone, they are just hidden. This would mean that in order to have and utilize the best equipment, you would need to use observational skills, as well as common sense.
 

darksuccubus

New member
Jan 11, 2011
110
0
0
That sounds amazing! It would be interesting to try it out, hope someone in game dev reads this :D
 

masticina

New member
Jan 19, 2011
763
0
0
I don't know though I like the idea to take away some stats and hence make it more a world on its own. I mean the games I dislike the most are like a math test, you know the type of JRPG in what you have to Junction a Guardian Force to boost certain stats but to do so your GF needs magic drawn from enemies. Ugh yeah that game sucked

On the other hand being able to see a difference between two swords by a number at least give you a "feel" for what you can expect. If you have three swords and they are not labeled you would go with the fanciest one or the manliest one. If they are though saying 29 damage 27 damage 25 damage you will use the "better" weapons.

There is a joy in progress in getting access to better weapons.

Numbers have meaning and they help you frame the worlds. So the best game for me is somewhere in the middle, one that allows me to see progression and yet that doesn't expects me to do advanced math binding GF's to yourself and junctioning their bonusses to magic that you draw from enemies crap.

[and no Final Fantasy XIII wasn't a solution either. You don't have control or influence there]
 

RastaBadger

New member
Jun 5, 2010
317
0
0
I would definitely play a game like that though you would have to make sure the difference between weapons/armour/spells was obvious enough for you to work out what they do or how powerful they are.
 

ChupathingyX

New member
Jun 8, 2010
3,716
0
0
Yopaz said:
Definition of a RPG video game right here.
Role-playing video games (commonly referred to as role-playing games or RPGs) are a video game genre with origins in pen-and-paper role-playing games[1] such as Dungeons & Dragons, using much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics. The player in RPGs controls one character, or several adventuring party members, fulfilling one or many quests. The major similarities with pen-and-paper games involve developed story-telling and narrative elements, player character development, complexity, as well as replayability and immersion. Electronic medium removes the necessity for a gamemaster and increases combat resolution speed. RPGs have evolved from simple text-based console-window games into visually rich 3D experiences.
It doesn't say anything about stats... What to make of this?
Aren't numbers and stats a mechanic of pen-and-paper RPGs?
 

Beat14

New member
Jun 27, 2010
417
0
0
Well yes, as a person who tried to make dead island more interesting for myself by turning off the hit damage given and enemy life bar with the information on the enemy such as level. I wanted to remove as much of the hud as possible, it has been ages since I've played due to being on a bad laptop now so I can't remember if you are able to remove much more.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
0
0
ChupathingyX said:
Yopaz said:
Definition of a RPG video game right here.
Role-playing video games (commonly referred to as role-playing games or RPGs) are a video game genre with origins in pen-and-paper role-playing games[1] such as Dungeons & Dragons, using much of the same terminology, settings and game mechanics. The player in RPGs controls one character, or several adventuring party members, fulfilling one or many quests. The major similarities with pen-and-paper games involve developed story-telling and narrative elements, player character development, complexity, as well as replayability and immersion. Electronic medium removes the necessity for a gamemaster and increases combat resolution speed. RPGs have evolved from simple text-based console-window games into visually rich 3D experiences.
It doesn't say anything about stats... What to make of this?
Aren't numbers and stats a mechanic of pen-and-paper RPGs?
Sure, they're a pert of it, but it's not covered by the definition of pen and paper RPGs. So the definition does not include stats on any point.
 

Disgruntled_peasant

New member
Jan 13, 2011
40
0
0
I'd say yes, so long as the rest of the game is designed around the fact (you couldnt just take a game like diablo, remove the visble numbers and call it a day, for example).

It would have to be a game where each item behaves very diferently rather than just 'sword X is better than sword Y.

RPG's have become too much about number crunching, it just doesnt feel very dramatic that I kill the big bad because my sword has an extra +10 damage more than his and i am level 98 in swordplay. it just doesnt make sense to have such things be represented by such arbitrary numbers, of course the numbers need to be there for background calculations, but in real-world terms it makes no sense that I can look at a sword and know precisely and mathmatically how much more effective it is than another, nor does it make sense that a certain type of armour will simply reduce any and al damage to me by a blanket amount, certain types of armour are designed to protect against certain types of attacks.

EDIT: as a comprimise: what if said RPG had a characteristic like inteligence, or a skill that allowed you to 'examine' things more closely. it would not give you a numerical value of something but rather a more technical view of it?
Low skills would say things like "this is a heavy sword" or "this looks sharper than my sword", higher skills would say "this will pierce armour better than my weapon but its weight might be a disadvantage, it would work well against X enemy"
 

LordFisheh

New member
Dec 31, 2008
478
0
0
Depends, sometimes I sometimes like stats, but usually I can't stand them. I like some depth to my games, but not to the degree that I need a calculator to be viable (except in EVE). As to whether the way a game uses stats is true to being an RPG, frankly, I don't care. RPG is a name, all I want is a good game. Not a good FPS, not a 'true' RPG, not a traditional FPS. As soon as a game starts trying to live up to a checklist so it can be a 'true' -genre-, it risks taking focus away from simply being a good game.
 

Otterby

New member
Mar 10, 2011
27
0
0
I often pass up on statistically superior gear in games because I don't think they suit my characters.

So yes. Hell yes.
 

Zantos

New member
Jan 5, 2011
3,653
0
0
One thing that annoyed me about levelling in Fallout 3 and NV was the fact I could gain an entire level using only big guns and explosives, yet once that screen appeared I could use it all to become more sneaky. A game where you develop skills the more you use them, and you don't know how good you are at that until you try, it'd be difficult to pull off, but the idea definitely has potential.
 

Disgruntled_peasant

New member
Jan 13, 2011
40
0
0
Tin Man said:
skywolfblue said:
Zhukov said:
Sure.

Although I'd rather they just get rid of the stats altogether.
Agree.

RPG's are suppose to be about talking to the characters, learning their stories, and acquiring spifftastic stuff that LOOKS cool. Stats just get in the way, making people go for ugly stuff simply because it's +1 damage. Sooner stats go away, the sooner people get to wear what they want to wear.
So what you're saying is you want the video game equivalent of Larping? Thats fine and I'm not criticising your tastes, but that's a niche in the extreme. Get rid of the stats in an RPG and it's not an RPG as everyone knows it, it'd be a game about Role-Play, which is more in line with acting then any game experience.

To the OP: No, I wouldn't touch an RPG without the numbers with a barge pole, I think it's a stupid idea lol, no offence. If I don't want numbers I play an action game, when I want gear, stats and all that stuff I play an RPG.

I just dont understand this... the numebers are still there- you just cant see them. you play the game EXACTLY as you would otherwise, you just dont have the magical ability to anyalise every aspect of everything in matrix-vixion.

Arent RPG games about going on epic quests, meeting intresting characters, making important decisions and facing off against the big bad? when did they become a maths puzzle?

EDIT: to use an example I reference FAR too much: Dwarf Fortress. It has in-game mechanics that use the material, size, density/mass of objects to determine how strong and what kind of damage a weapon does, it will then calculate all that against similar characteristics of the oponents armour and body- it does not have an arbitrary "10 attack power" or "20 defence power" on equipment, nor can you see the exact stats of things (aside from wieght i think).
You must think to yourself 'well, a warhammer is all about sheer force, so a very heavy one is sure it hit hard', or 'a spear needs to pierce through tough armour so it needs to be the sharpest material I can find'.