You accuse me of not reading, but then you seem to go without reading the part where I said "Again, just my opinion, just like everything else on this thread..." and went and told me that I was expressing my opinion, and you say it as though that de=bunks my point.s69-5 said:"Should" denotes an opinion.
I understand that there are tons of games called "RPGs" that feature no character choices. I understand that the industry and the player base at large defines RPGs by stats. I understand that my crazy idea that actual "role-playing" should be what defines a "role-playing game" is weird and deviates from the normal, accepted definition.s69-5 said:Again, there are no RPGs that do not use stats. There are plenty that do not offer character choices. Tell me again which aspect defines RPGs in terms of video games.
I understand all that, but that doesn't mean that I agree with it.
To me, character choice is what defines role-playing games, whether they are video games are otherwise. I believe that we could have (and maybe should have, for the sake of variety and innovation) an RPG without stats, such as what the OP suggested. Or, there could be a game similar to Mass Effect 2 where the stats are removed entirely and the systems of play revolve around standard third-person shooting combat and action-adventure style exploration; at the same time, all the characterization, plot, and dialogue choices...wait, what do you call that...oh yeah! "role-playing" would remain intact. And that, to me, would be an RPG.
I'm not really interested in changing the genre labels and I don't expect people to change their perceptions. My grief is this: The assumption that "stats are what make an RPG an RPG" paves way for certain problems:
1) Lousy storytelling. I know too many people who are into tabletop not because they are interested in actually role-playing and crafting meaningful stories, but because they love the number-crunching and power-gaming, "I'm gonna make my character the most badass of all badasses!" If that's what some people like, I'm fine with that. My issue is that RPG developers see this behavior and assume that players care more for numbers and system than story and pathos. I've heard people rave about Demon's/Dark Souls, yet I've heard nothing regarding the quality, good or bad, of the game's story.
To me, the best RPGs will have a great system AND a great story. It's disheartening to see so many of those who are more interested in systems encourage developers (through buying power) to make games for people who are more interested in systems when RPG devs could be pushing the development of amazing game stories. When I was younger, the RPGs I played had the most interesting game stories. Recently, the most interesting game stories I've experienced have been outside the RPG genre in games like Red Dead Redemption and the Assassin's Creed series. Maybe I'm wrong, but it seems to me that focusing on system over story has contributed to this trend.
2) Unfair expectations. A game like Mass Effect 2 comes out, and some people go as far to argue that it's not an RPG, but a third-person shooter with some RPG elements. On the contrary, the role-playing remained intact. It was the lack of stats that broke genre conventions. Why can we not have a role-playing game (a game where you play a role in a story) without a stat-focused system? The underlying assumption that an RPG must have a stat-based system is an arbitrary social construct, but people treat it like inviolable law.
3) Stifled creativity and innovation. In the tabletop world, there was a game that came out called Nobilis. It had an extremely simplified system. Each character has four attributes that are ranked from level 0 to level 4 (or 5, can't remember). The emphasis was on player/storyteller creativity and crafting fantastic stories that required creative thinking from everyone involved. The game did not sell well at all. Games like Nobilis and Mass Effect 2 try to stir the pot and do something different and they get turned on because "an RPG HAS to have a detailed stat-based system." It's frustrating.
And, again, all this my opinion. Just as the idea that "the industry defining RPGs by stats is a good thing" is your opinion.