Poll: WWII Military Leaders

katsa5

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Hmmm. . . Patton or Churchill. . . what to do, what to do. "Battle is an orgy of disorder" vs. "If you're going through hell, keep going".
 

Casimir_Effect

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Aug 26, 2010
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Got to go with the British. Yes Germany did really well, but it cannot be denied that there were massive problems with the level of command below Hitler. That led to the invasion of the USSR, curtailing of Rommel's army, and the lack of support to the Luftwaffe. And of those commanders, only Hitler had that certain je ne sais quoi that inspires the masses. Rommel could inspire troups but not the common person.

Whereas the speeches of Churchill match and better anything Hitler gave, and Monty (deplorable human being though he may have been) beat Rommel's ass. The only real falter in the British campaign was that which led up to Dunkirk, but they began that fight in an untenable position anyway.
 

ninja51

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Id say honestly America. I know I know, America is a pretty shit country, but World War II continues to be the time they constantly gloat about, and id say its actually justified. America did have the best commanders, I mean heck, they won. Cant argue against that
 

BlastedTheWorm

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TheIronRuler said:
You're WRONG.
The person that defeated the Russians in the invasion of Finland was non other than...
*DRUMS*
..."Simo Hayha"!
Ah yes, the White Death. Wouldn't like to tangle with that chap in a snowstorm.
 

TheIronRuler

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BlastedTheWorm said:
TheIronRuler said:
You're WRONG.
The person that defeated the Russians in the invasion of Finland was non other than...
*DRUMS*
..."Simo Hayha"!
Ah yes, the White Death. Wouldn't like to tangle with that chap in a snowstorm.
I would rather have him in a dark alley.
Have you seen his face after the explosive round injury?
Damn.
But he survived.
That's the only reason Russia didn't try again.
Now he's out there, killing Russians in the wastes, making Finland safe!
 

Firehound

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Nov 22, 2010
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Not a question, the best army strategists of the war were German. Americans and Russians just rushed tanks.

Germany would have crushed Russia if he didn't make stupid demands of his armies, (I.E. Take Stalingrad as opposed to bypass Stalingrad.)

The Allied Comintern, and especially other Axis commanders just couldn't hold a candle to German Army commanders unless they were willing to accept heavy losses.

Naval Strategy I would say is a narrow victory to the Americans, who learned quickly from the Japanese relatively speaking.
 

joemegson94

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Quaxar said:
joemegson94 said:
I tell you who it wasn't: Hitler.

I think I'll fight two major powers on opposite fronts, as well as France. That'll end well.
Plus help out the good Duce fucking up in the south.
I mean the guy managed to fuck up his own invasion of already-surrendered France. Plus Greece. Plus he lost Lybia to a British army a third the size of his.

Though I feel compelled to vote for him for his <url=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/65/Mussolini-ggbain.jpg>kickass hat.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TA8Uav7EPlQ
 

LongAndShort

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May 11, 2009
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Everyone had some pretty decent leaders (Rommel, Patton, Montgomery to mention from Germany, Britain and the USA respectively), and they all had some pretty shit leaders (to many to mention).

My personal hero is an Australian (of bloody course), Sir Leslie Morshead. Man was a strict but beloved leader who beat Rommel continuously for nine months at Tobruk. As I said, personal hero.
 

Valkyr71

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oliveira8 said:
TheIronRuler said:
Definetly Germany.
The mistake was Invading Russia.
If NAPOLEON didn't make it, why do you think YOU can pull it off?
Why make the risk? Invade Britain!
They did invade Britain. They failed, so they went to Russia.
No german soldier ever set foot on the Isles. Where are you getting your history from?
 

EradiusLore

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Rommel the Desert Fox,the greatest general of the war! only beaten in africa because we (britain) cracked the enigma machine codes
 

Valkyr71

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Ill have to go with America. Eisenhower was not a military genius, but he was smart enough to make teh right choices and was able to balance churchhill, franky, patton, and monty all at one time. patton is probably the greatest cavalry commander ever to grace this earth. His march to bastogne proves that. Macarthur was not really brilliant till Korea, and bradley was one of teh greatest infantry men ever to grace teh earth. If you are talking small unit commanders i have to give it to teh brits who taught the US everything it know about special warfare tactics.
 

frizzlebyte

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FFHAuthor said:
In the end, I don't think you can really claim that the war was decided by Generals or by armies, once Japan brought America into the war in the Pacific, the war was decided, just as when Germany brought Russia into the war in Europe, it was decided. Industry and resources won the war for the Allies. There were many opportunities for the Germans to win the war in Europe with a negotiated peace (Invade England, or even easier, destroy the BEF at Dunkirk and force a a negotiated end by England.) And the opportunity for the United States to completely avoid a war in the Pacific. (The Japanese were willing to negotiate a withdraw from China after the Oil and Steel embargo so long as token face saving measures could be taken.)
I think it was a combination of commanders, resources, and strategy, as well, but I also think that sheer determination on the part of the Allies (particularly the USA) made it hard to stop us. When we discovered that our way of life might just get obliterated, the whole moral obligation factor comes in to play.

Religious and cultural fanaticism/patriotism is a potent weapon.
 

Chevy235

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ninja51 said:
Id say honestly America. I know I know, America is a pretty shit country,
Yay! I can't avoid halfwit inbred morons anywhere can I? Weeee....


Seriously, all of the nations had good leaders...in fact, it's really hard to pick. One of my favorites, and only because he's underappreciated, is General Giovanni Messe, an Italian. Took over from Rommel late in the North African campaign and dealt Monty a bloody nose at the Mareth Line. The campaign was all but won by the Allies at this point, but he still skillfully delayed the inevitable for far longer than (IMHO) anyone else could have.
 

oliveira8

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Valkyr71 said:
oliveira8 said:
TheIronRuler said:
Definetly Germany.
The mistake was Invading Russia.
If NAPOLEON didn't make it, why do you think YOU can pull it off?
Why make the risk? Invade Britain!
They did invade Britain. They failed, so they went to Russia.
No german soldier ever set foot on the Isles. Where are you getting your history from?
Fine fine. They tried to Invade Britain. They failed, so they wen to Russia.
 

ntw3001

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SckizoBoy said:
(esteemed (sic))
I don't want to be a dick, but (sic) doesn't really seem to belong here. It means 'such', and means that an error is directly copied from the original source of a quotation rather than any fault of the writer. The more you know, and such.
 

Treblaine

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America, but mainly for the Pacific campaign. Particularly how they were able to nullify Japan so well with their island hopping and bombing campaign. I mean the sheer scale of the offensive they took after such massive losses against such a determined and committed enemy.

Strategically, I think it was the most effective use of the men they had against the longest odds.

And they were effectively fighting a whole other war on the other side of the world as Equal Partners with the British Commonwealth (mainly UK and Canada), while providing so much materiel support to UK and USSR that to me is a huge Strategic significance.

Also it was an American General Eisenhower who was in overall command of the Allies in Europe and he did a damn good job of getting the best out of the American, British and Other commanders. That is a significant strategic achievement, to arrive late and jsut take charge so effectively.

And General Marshal overseeing it all, fighting two wars on opposite sides of the world.

PS: Strategy is to me the higher up in the command structure. Tactically is to me lower down in the command structure.

Germans were the best tacticians, but Nazi Germany was doomed to fail no matter how good their tacticians as the strategy of war was absolutely insane in it's reach and expectations. It Expected more of their tacticians than even though could deliver.
 

Farther than stars

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It's a pretty complex situation, of course, having to take into account multiple factors to come to an accurate conclusion (although we won, so that has to count for something), so I'm just going to go with the leadership of one brilliant man, namely Field Marshall The Right Honourable Bernard Law Montgomery, because of the spectacular strategy he excercised in northern Africa - pretty much dominating the enemy forces over there. And in the end, for all the mistakes he did make, he was a real credit to the British Army.
Also, the British Navy functioned like clockwork (as indeed it still [phew!]).

By the way, I hate to point it out, but in a poll like this it's as important as minor details get, that you make the option the "U.S." or "U.S.A" if you're actually going to call it a nation.
If anyone wants to throw rocks at me now I urge them to:



(although do so outside of this thread; this is a little off topic)

Disclaimer: I am not advertising Adidas AG or any of its products by means of the above-posted picture.

Edit: Sorry, I got his title wrong. I corrected it now though, to be "The Right Honourable".
 

MikailCaboose

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SFMB said:
The Japs had a good idea: a surprise attack, like blitzkrieg, but with planes and navy. Though, they should have taken Hawaii and kept it. It was a mock war, with the most noble and fearless soldier on the front. Don't know any of their comanders, but Japan, as a whole almost conquired China, whitch is a big deal.

On a side note: McArthur was a complete maniac. He wanted to bomb Vietnam into oblivion with nukes, although the yanks we're losing the war already, as in vengeance.
The Japs were egocentric, who had problems underestimating their opponents, hence beginning the war with America in the first place. Only one of their admirals actually had an understanding of American capabilities. And prior to that, with the war against Russia, they would have easily lost had it not been for the fact that Russia essentially went "Fuck it" and called it off before the sleeping bear could get moving.

When it comes to the China invasion, it was largely started by Japanese officers, and not the higher-ups in their military, and ultimately their only advantage was that their ruthlessness served as material for demoralizing the enemy. Japan's strength lied in its general soldiers, and not its commanders.
 

SillyBear

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May 10, 2011
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TheIronRuler said:
Definetly Germany.
The mistake was Invading Russia.
It's hindsight bias. I can guarantee you that at the time, knowing what the Germans knew, invading Russia was a necessity. The two were allied through a "treaty" but were both ready to dish up some serious revenge. There is enough documentation and proof out there that clearly shows Russia weren't going to be passive with Germany for very long, and they were planning on making a push towards Germany regardless. And vice versa. They hated each other and they wanted to fight.

However, through invading Russia they made the Russians hate them even more and that is probably what lost them the war.

Knowing what we know now, was it a mistake? Yes. 100% yes. But I don't really think it was a mistake at the time, because they had to act first. It was risky, and it didn't work. Lots of us would have made the same error if we were in the same circumstances I feel.

Also, it wasn't the cold or the Russian weather that lost Germany the campaign in Russia. It was simple man power and logistics. For every 200,000 Germans that died in action, they would take 1,000,000 Russians with them. They were more effective than the Russians were per man. Germany were just stretched too thin.

A Mad Monk 2 said:
and why on earth did he attack russia when he did? huge mistake
Because Russia was going to attack them if they didn't. Russia were slowly but surely reequipping their military and were just about ready to strike. Germany had to act first. The problem wasn't invading Russia, the problem was bad leadership and logistics errors