Poll: Your view on parents spanking their children?

[Cpu46]

I had something typed out with examples and my viewpoint clearly stated but the forum must have wanted a midnight snack.

OT: In my view there is spanking and then there is abuse.

Spanking is when a parent or guardian uses controlled pain and fear to associate pain with something far more dangerous such as a decrepit yard filled with rusty machinery (personal example). This should be used when setting up and enforcing rules through other means fails. The method is Pavlovian in nature, the child is meant to associate pain with the real danger, not the one spanking. The ultimate goal is to protect the child in a situation where learning from personal experience could lead to major injury or even death. Usually one or two light to heavy (depending on the severity of the threat) smacks on non vital areas of the body.

Abuse is when the parent or guardian is obviously meant to be the source of the danger and pain. There is no lesson to be learned other than "do not piss this person off". It is meant as a power play to put the child "in his/her place".

Spanking is fine if the child refuses to follow rules meant for their protection and shrugs off other discipline such as grounding. Abuse is abhorrent and those who do it to children are lower than scum to me.

 

[lunavixen]

I think smacking should be a last resort punishment, it's more effective at a younger age because younger children don't understand the difference between right and wrong. However, a clear line needs to be drawn between assaulting the child and punishing the child, i deem a mild smack on the bottom or the hand to be acceptable, but the head, unacceptable, pinching children is unacceptable to me, and high levels of force is unacceptable (high level of force to me, is hard enough to bruise, no matter how small). As children get older, punishments should change accordingly (confiscation of toys etc.)

Yes, I was smacked as a child as a last resort, and i only needed to be smacked once. I think i was only ever smacked once, the verbal warnings got through after that.

 

[viranimus]

There are sooooo many people who simply were not spanked enough as children and it completely shows and explains so much.

 

[viranimus]

There are sooooo many people who simply were not spanked enough as children and it completely shows and explains so much.

And you're able to prove this? If not then it looks like instead we have a lesson in believe who just believe whatever shit comes to mind.

Prove what exactly?

If you dont see the ruined, broken and mentally undeveloped people out there that signify this abundance of absolutely neglectful and abusive parenting, then your not going to see any "proof" as valid unless it substantiates your own position on it. If you cannot see the damage that has already been caused and is quickly getting worse, then it is a moot point, your not going to see it.

If you cant see the problem, the answer is nothing more than gibberish.

 

[viranimus]

See, I'm smarter than you apparently. I don't just take my personal experiences and assume they cover an entire nation or something. Or take them without properly comparing them to the past.

And I'm not so ignorant as to jump to the cause without proof. Much less jump to the solution without proof too.

You fail on multiple counts. You have not proven that it is abundant, a claim you can't make on your own personal experience. You have not proven the cause is absolutely neglectful and abusive parenting. And you're pulling a fucking dishonest switch from 'lack of spanking' to 'absolutely neglectful and abusive parenting'. And lastly you have proven fuck all about the role of spanking or lack thereof in this.

Yeah, Im sure you think you are. That is the problem and all the proof you need right there. You started this whole exchange not to discuss this topic, or even explain how you think your opinion is right, but to try and pick a fight because you think the opinion that differs from yours is wrong. Its disrespectful, the manner its presented is arrogant and there in lies the problem.

All the proof you want is right before you. Just look at the world around you and see all the countless examples for yourself. If you cannot see what is already abundantly there, Nothing I say will make it any easier for you to see. Perhaps time and experience would make it clearer.

Im not going to fight with you. I have stated my position on this. Viewing spanking as the same thing as assault is wrong. Not setting proper and appropriate boundaries for children IS neglectful and abusive parenting, and yes spanking is a natural and often needed part of setting proper boundaries and teaching children respect. You might not agree with that, but it is my opinion on it.

So you have a choice, you can accept that it is an opinion you dont agree with, or get bent out of shape about it, but it does not mean I am going to spend my time explaining something that you would chose to ignore. All I can do is respect your opinion is different, and not demand you validate your opinion, choosing to agree to disagree. I would have expected the same respect.

 

[viranimus]

Snipped for space

Again.. I am not going to argue with you. You have proven much more than I could ever hope to. But thank you for providing that proof.

 

[SkellgrimOrDave]

Snipped for space

Again.. I am not going to argue with you. You have proven much more than I could ever hope to. But thank you for providing that proof.

Snipped for space

Again.. I am not going to argue with you. You have proven much more than I could ever hope to. But thank you for providing that proof.

Can't really count out your part in proving you seem to justify your beliefs by making baseless assumptions about people.

HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK HEADDESK.

That point out of the way, anyone who brings up the argument of "Ye goold olde dayes" When spanking was common and school shootings were not (becuase that is a perfect use of logical arguing there, absolutely stellar....) is clearly missing the point that society has changed somewhat over 70 odd eyars for whatever reason. Which nobody can put their finger on becuase every little thing that changes society has an effect on it. Spanking children becoming less common does not correlate to anything. We have more spoilt children and children with fewer boundaries not because spanking is becoming a taboo for some people, but because of some other reason that actually makes some sense. Like society becoming incresingly fragmented and impersonal because of the larger influence on technology and the acquisition of possessions above all else . Or becuase of the chemicals the government puts in your water. Or because of overly liberal parenting and governmental policies towards terrorists and freedom haters. Or because the decadent capitalist world is crumbling and this is just the fallout from it. Or because lefty communists are ruining healthcare by making it free and draining taxes out of the working man.

Or it's none of these things and the world is an inherently chaotic place where correlative data has little to no real application, but that idea is very hard to peddle to people who want a world which has structure to it as opposed to the idea that you'll work 35 years in a job you hate in a marriage with someone who's pretty, sure, but the kids are a pain in the neck and then you're hit by a bus on the way to work and killed. How many people who are going to die today actually consider it to be a possibilty?

 

[asinann]

Mortai, every one of your responses has been from emotion or an attack on the other poster. None of them are valid arguements at any time. Stop trolling.

 

[Darkmantle]

Some children, especially those under 5 don't respond to time outs: they don't have the capacity to understand what they did wrong and why it was wrong. They haven't had the socialization to do so. I generally only had to sound disappointed in my daughter to get her to behave, but I have been around children that needed the occasional pop on the arse.

If it's got to the point where a kid NEEDS to be hit, isn't that indicative of a previous failure?

When a child doesn't understand words, taking things away and time outs it's not about failures, it's because the child is most likely too young or they are not physiologically developed enough to understand those things. I have found that children (among the limited group of them that are being and have been raised by myself and my friends) that were not at least spanked a time or two when they were small tend to be more selfish and more defiant than children who were.

most children learn to talk and understand speech by 12-18 months. Are you seriously saying hitting a child younger than that will have ANY positive effect? If they are too young to understand stuff being taken away from them as punishment, then they are too young/underdeveloped to understand why you hit them.

All you are doing is replacing "selfish and defiant" with "likely to be violent when they are older". Spanking seems to be all about short term gain, long term loss. Make your kids obedient, until you are no longer stronger than them. Fear is a poor parent I assure you.

what you always have to wonder with anecdotal evidence, are they good because of the spanking, or in spite of the spanking?

How many people misbehaved in the 1930s when parents were allowed to beat the living crap out of their children? How many school shootings?

Most people that advocate the non-spanking of children either have children that were little hellions when they were small and medicated when older (for ADD they wouldn't have if they got smacked occasionally, trust me, fear is great to help children focus on their studies) or don't have children themselves.

Well there was that whole fascism thing going on in the 30s and 40s. A whole ideology created and supported by a generation raised with corporal punishment. That still supports what I said earlier, spanking causes obedience now, and intense authoritarian violence later.

The thirties had plenty of problems, the Great depression, the start of WW2 and communism to name a few. So pointing to it as some kind of ideal past era is foolish, there were tons of social issues, drop the nostalgia.

Also, most of the kids I know who are on Ritalin, were spanked by their parents.