Poll: You're pregnant. What do you do?

Brightzide

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Nov 22, 2009
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Cant ever imagine going for the abortion option. Though I do want to be a daddy quite badly. I work, she works. We earn a decent living. Sure it'd put a stress on things, but im positive it'll be worth it. I may only be 20, but I know what I want. And my better half is 23, and she's already expressed her fondness to becoming a mother. Who am I to deny her? :)
 

rookie.of.the.year

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Jul 30, 2010
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Silvianoshei said:
OT: If my woman got pregnant...we give high fivez! If I was younger, It would be impossible to have a kid since I practiced abstinence. Also surprised by the 50% abortion choice. I can't honestly say I'm 100% pro-choice, because the physical and mental trauma induced by an abortion is incredibly hard on the body. My political leanings are generally leftist, but I just don't think abortion is a valid option for someone who gets pregnant. As far as the mother is concerned, there is a much greater chance of sterility, depression, and other complications if she decides to get an abortion. Also, how can we say with certainty what that child's future holds? I've seen the most amazing people come from the most broken of homes.
You're male, you are speaking of something you will never experience. You can't comment on the 'physical and mental trauma' that a woman goes through, and how can you say that that is greater than the physical and mental trauma that a woman would under go if she were to have a child?

How can you say there's a greater chance of complication and depression? There are plenty more hazards that come with forcing a baby out.

I don't want to have a massive rant, maybe I just got out the wrong side of the bed. But I don't think you should be talking about the emotional implications of abortion, when you have no idea how it feels.

No, I don't know how it feels either, but I sure as hell know I would be a lot more traumatised and depressed if I was stuck with a baby.

And I do have a friend who has gone through with it, and it was completely the right choice for her. She's not depressed or sunken into a black hole of regret, yes she was upset, but it hasn't detrimentally affected her.
 

Sun Flash

Fus Roh Dizzle
Apr 15, 2009
1,242
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Honestly depends on how well I know the dad. If it was a one night stand with some stranger (highly unlikely but never say never) and I couldn't contact the guy, I'd probably abort. If it was with a partner, or at least someone I knew and got frisky with, I'd have to talk it over with them.

If in an ideal world and only my opinion mattered, I'd keep it. It's not its fault I made a mistake and I'd damn sure raise the kid better than half the other girls my age who've fallen prego. Plu I seem to be in the minority on this site who actually want kids.

I wouldn't give it up for adoption, purely because there's thousands of kids waiting for parents to love them, and I don't want to take their chance of a family away just because I was too much of a pussy to raise a kid.

I'm personally anti abortion, I'd only do it if there were absolutely no better option. (politically I'm all pro-choice, I don't care what you do with your body, just let me do my thing)
 

Andaxay

Thinking with Portals
Jun 4, 2008
514
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Razada said:
So when someone makes a choice to end what I would give anything to have had, simply because it would COMPLICATE things? It might make things a bit harder? They might have to put a career plan on hold? It feels like a slap in the face to me. A punch. And it feels like a resounding "FUCK YOU" to anyone who is trying and failing to have children.
Sorry, but I completely disagree here. I do feel for people who can't have children for one reason or another. But that's not MY fault so why should I feel guilty about aborting just because someone halfway across the world can't have kids?

I don't want children. Me and my boyfriend take the necessary precautions, I'm on birth control and we wrap it up. I've made it crystal clear from the start of our relationship that I don't want children so if I did end up pregnant, I'd abort and if he tried to convince me out of it, we'd have to re-evaluate our relationship. I would abort because it would be incredibly selfish of me, someone with absolutely no desire for children, to bring one into the world and raise it. Why? Because they'd be unwanted. Can you just imagine how that child would feel? Knowing their mother only brought them into the world because they felt they had to, not because they wanted to? Me having an abortion wouldn't be a huge "fuck you" to those poor people who want them and can't have them, it would be me stopping a child from being raised in an unwanted life.

Maybe it's selfish of me but I feel I wasn't put on this world to raise children. My life stops as soon as I have them. And there's too much I want to do with my life. I want to go and study science, to go on into a fantastic career and change something in the world. Not only that, but I'm unemployed right now, live with my dad, am struggling like hell to get a job 'til I go back to college this September. I can't bring a child into that, it's unfair on all parties. I saw so many exhausted mothers and fathers in my last job and it scared me. I do not want that.

Again, I'm sorry for the people who can't have children, but it's choice at the end of the day. I'm taking every precaution so I'm not dropped into the decision of having an abortion, but if it happens then that's what I'll do. Everyone is different, and those who don't want children should not be pressured into having them because it's the "right thing to do" or because others can't. My ability to have children should NOT be used to make up for the people who can't.
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
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Razada said:
Yopaz said:
Silvianoshei said:
Reading this thread is amazing. A lot of people don't realize how much you change after having a child, If you are truly worried enough about the child's well being that you don't think you have the maturity to raise it, you'll surprise yourself at how much you grow up when you have one. If you liken a child to a parasite, then maybe you should hold off...
Believe me, there are too many out there who would not want an abortion who should never ever have kids. Some mature when it's required, but there are enough who don't.

Garyn Dakari said:
The "Thing" you speak of is a human life.
No, it's not. At the time where it's acceptable to have an abortion the nerves have yet to develop. Seriously, if you call this

a human life there is something seriously wrong with you. Especially since this is the foetus of a pig, which I am sure you did not gather from the image. An adult pig is a lot more developed than an early embryo, so by your definition we should not eat pigs because of how advanced they are. Even trees are more advanced than a foetus. There are a few requirements when we define life, and being able to find food is one of them. So by the ACTUAL definition a foetus can barely be called living at all.
*leaves all forms of religion at the door*

This is not about a cold hearted depiction of life. If humans were naturally psychopathic then yes, we could say this is about cold hearted depictions of life. But it is not. Human life is... Different (And if you disagree with me on that, this discussion is immediately done and your opinion is, in my eyes, invalidated) and by different I do not mean "Holy" or anything like that, I just mean that humans develop from embryos into, eventually, walking, talking, thinking people.

And that is the point that... Changes everything for me. Now at least, considering what I have already been through with regards to this topic. That little cluster of cells? If nature (Or science) does not get in its way will become a unique being. The chances of there being someone identical to him/her is, well impossible, both in genes and in who they will become. Now this is where the science gets blurred. The phrase "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" does apply here. In reality? It is something beyond tiny that has no brain, no nervous system, no sense of self, it is a parasite. Hell, it takes a while for the little thing to be able to identify its parents AFTER is is born. But that little lump of cells is more than just... a little lump of cells. It is... Well, it is a hell of a lot of potential, but we cannot live our lives based on potential. Anyone will admit that it was the unique creation of two people and there will not be another bump of cells exactly like it ever again.

And that makes a difference.

Oh yes, you make arguments about "Complexity" but it depends on what levels you are grading complexity. In honesty that is a rather dead argument. Things are not just the sum of their parts.

Now, I am not against abortion per se, if the mothers life is at risk, for example, I am all for it. I just think that too many people think it is an easy choice (And everyone who thinks it is an easy choice is either naive or fucked up. Seriously, speaking from experience. I thought it would be an easy choice to make. I was naive) and too many people go through with it because they are scared of what it means and scared of having to change their lives. And in my eyes... Well, it feels like a bit of a punch to the groin. Which, as I have said, I feel bad about. But that is just how it feels.

tldr; blah blah blah, science is cold, it is not about the sum of its parts, it is about the whole and what it represents, oh god I overuse ellipsis whilst writing down my thoughts.
You call it cold hearted, I call it rational. I am using this way of discussing this because it's the best way to oppose a warm hearted idealism. We can be pro-choice and still be warm hearted. I think of the people involved. A kid brought into life unwanted may cause suffering to the parents and in turn for the kid itself. I see that as a lot worse than being denied life before there even is talk of life. Calling a lump of cells where the only thing that has been establishes is the axises of a deuterestromic embryonic development is warm hearted. There is little difference between what we see in other mammals, in the first 2 weeks you wouldn't see the difference between a frog and a human.

You say there are a lot of different ways to look at complexity, sure. Let's take a look at some.
An adult pig can feel pain. A human Foetus can't
An Adult pig can think. A human Foetus cant.
An Adult pig can move freely and live on its own. A human foetus can't.
An Adult pig got all nerves and organs. A human Foetus don't.
An adult pig has developed it's gender. A human foetus will have to wait for the SRY gene to activate to determine gender.
A human foetus got the 3 axises determined which determines the orientation of the new development and differentiation on a cellular level. Guess what, a pig has already been through that. On all gradings of complexity a foetus is less than our food.

You accuse me of being cold hearted, but that's not true. I want kids, but I know the truth of this. Human life isn't sacred. We value it more because we are attached to it, we can relate to it. We romanticize it, make it poetic. It's the miracle of life. However it's nothing special. I know there's a few who regret their abortions afterwards, just like there's a ton who regret having kids altogether. We do things we regret, but the choice should still be up to us. There is something in the saying that we can't learn from the mistakes of others. Am I cold hearted for believing we should control our lives?
 

Terrara

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Jul 1, 2011
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So so so many factors coming into play! Why/when/how old are you/your partner/physical condition/etc
Personally, I am terrified of giving birth (selfish bit?h that I am). However, I do not have a partner whom I'd love enough to have a child with. Abortion would be an option definitely, as long as it is not here in Russia, as I would like to stay fertile. But the biggest factor for me would be presence of genetical diseases, mainly affecting the brain. I will not curse my child for his/her lifetime to be little more then a vegetable unable to live trapped in a physical shell.
Also, according to this pole, overpopulation will not be a problem of 2050. Incredibly high taxes will XD
 

silversnake4133

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Mar 14, 2010
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I'd at least carry it to full term and if I couldn't acquire substantial financial sustenance by then I'd give it up for adoption. I'm not overly religious, but at least that kid would get a chance at life. But then again, I'm not dim-witted enough to risk having a kid when I'm not even out of university.

Abortion in my opinion is just an excuse for some women to justify having unprotected sex anytime they want. I know this isn't the case with all abortions, but heck that fetus that was aborted didn't exactly choose to be conceived as much as the woman didn't choose to be raped. Just a little something to think about the next time when some girl gets pregnant and feels she can just use abortion as a "get out of jail free" card.
 

Necroid_Neko

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Nov 24, 2011
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I would abort for completely selfish reasons; I can barely stand having a mild vomiting bug let alone suffer through morning sickness every day! It would hurt so much, I'd lose bladder control, my body would be aesthetically ruined and I might even end up overweight for not shifting the baby weight. It's not a road I ever intend to go down.

Although it's a quite contraversial opinion, I would like to be sterelised. I would rather not be able to have children entirely than run the risk of getting pregnant and putting myself/my partner through the pain and horror of an abortion, but I've been told repeatedly they only offer such surgery to women who have had children so no luck there. I often get very strange looks from people when I tell them that's what I'd like, they ask why I don't want children which seems so backwards to me - that we're still expecting every single woman to want their own child in this day and age. I do however intend to adopt; I would much rather give a child a home than bring another one into this world.
 

OmniscientOstrich

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Jan 6, 2011
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If I were a women I'd get rid of it. I have no desire to have children and even if I did I'm by no means in a fiscally or emotionally viable position to have one. If I had a hypothetical girlfriend to get pregnant, then I would jump out of a window can't really do shit, it's her decision. I'd put my case forward and argue that we really aren't fit to raise a kid and really nobody should be having kids at 19. Seriously. >.> But if she's set on it and made up her mind than I can't do anything about that and my hand is forced to get my shit together and help raise the thing.
 

Phasmal

Sailor Jupiter Woman
Jun 10, 2011
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I dont know.

I'm 21, with no home of my own, no job. (I'm also pro-choice).
My boyfriend at the moment is totally unready for fatherhood, and while I've been a nursery nurse and practically raised my little brother, I dont think I'm ready either.
So logically, I would want to have a termination. I dont know if I would though.

But that is a loaded question for me.
My mother is seriously anti-abortion. She says people should get them if they were raped or would die but not for `conveniance`. She has also told me she would probably not be able to talk to me and would see me very differently if I ever had one.
Which is a bit bizarre for me.

I wouldn't have a baby because my mother would hate me if I didn't. But I wouldn't be able to tell anyone if I had a termination.

I was born into a violent and unhappy marriage that ended badly, and I've always wanted to bring my child up in ideal conditions (which is why I'm vigilant about birthcontrol).
 

Yopaz

Sarcastic overlord
Jun 3, 2009
6,092
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Razada said:
Yopaz said:
Razada said:
Yopaz said:
Silvianoshei said:
Reading this thread is amazing. A lot of people don't realize how much you change after having a child, If you are truly worried enough about the child's well being that you don't think you have the maturity to raise it, you'll surprise yourself at how much you grow up when you have one. If you liken a child to a parasite, then maybe you should hold off...
Believe me, there are too many out there who would not want an abortion who should never ever have kids. Some mature when it's required, but there are enough who don't.

Garyn Dakari said:
The "Thing" you speak of is a human life.
No, it's not. At the time where it's acceptable to have an abortion the nerves have yet to develop. Seriously, if you call this

a human life there is something seriously wrong with you. Especially since this is the foetus of a pig, which I am sure you did not gather from the image. An adult pig is a lot more developed than an early embryo, so by your definition we should not eat pigs because of how advanced they are. Even trees are more advanced than a foetus. There are a few requirements when we define life, and being able to find food is one of them. So by the ACTUAL definition a foetus can barely be called living at all.
*leaves all forms of religion at the door*

This is not about a cold hearted depiction of life. If humans were naturally psychopathic then yes, we could say this is about cold hearted depictions of life. But it is not. Human life is... Different (And if you disagree with me on that, this discussion is immediately done and your opinion is, in my eyes, invalidated) and by different I do not mean "Holy" or anything like that, I just mean that humans develop from embryos into, eventually, walking, talking, thinking people.

And that is the point that... Changes everything for me. Now at least, considering what I have already been through with regards to this topic. That little cluster of cells? If nature (Or science) does not get in its way will become a unique being. The chances of there being someone identical to him/her is, well impossible, both in genes and in who they will become. Now this is where the science gets blurred. The phrase "The whole is greater than the sum of its parts" does apply here. In reality? It is something beyond tiny that has no brain, no nervous system, no sense of self, it is a parasite. Hell, it takes a while for the little thing to be able to identify its parents AFTER is is born. But that little lump of cells is more than just... a little lump of cells. It is... Well, it is a hell of a lot of potential, but we cannot live our lives based on potential. Anyone will admit that it was the unique creation of two people and there will not be another bump of cells exactly like it ever again.

And that makes a difference.

Oh yes, you make arguments about "Complexity" but it depends on what levels you are grading complexity. In honesty that is a rather dead argument. Things are not just the sum of their parts.

Now, I am not against abortion per se, if the mothers life is at risk, for example, I am all for it. I just think that too many people think it is an easy choice (And everyone who thinks it is an easy choice is either naive or fucked up. Seriously, speaking from experience. I thought it would be an easy choice to make. I was naive) and too many people go through with it because they are scared of what it means and scared of having to change their lives. And in my eyes... Well, it feels like a bit of a punch to the groin. Which, as I have said, I feel bad about. But that is just how it feels.

tldr; blah blah blah, science is cold, it is not about the sum of its parts, it is about the whole and what it represents, oh god I overuse ellipsis whilst writing down my thoughts.
You call it cold hearted, I call it rational. I am using this way of discussing this because it's the best way to oppose a warm hearted idealism. We can be pro-choice and still be warm hearted. I think of the people involved. A kid brought into life unwanted may cause suffering to the parents and in turn for the kid itself. I see that as a lot worse than being denied life before there even is talk of life. Calling a lump of cells where the only thing that has been establishes is the axises of a deuterestromic embryonic development is warm hearted. There is little difference between what we see in other mammals, in the first 2 weeks you wouldn't see the difference between a frog and a human.

You say there are a lot of different ways to look at complexity, sure. Let's take a look at some.
An adult pig can feel pain. A human Foetus can't
An Adult pig can think. A human Foetus cant.
An Adult pig can move freely and live on its own. A human foetus can't.
An Adult pig got all nerves and organs. A human Foetus don't.
An adult pig has developed it's gender. A human foetus will have to wait for the SRY gene to activate to determine gender.
A human foetus got the 3 axises determined which determines the orientation of the new development and differentiation on a cellular level. Guess what, a pig has already been through that. On all gradings of complexity a foetus is less than our food.

You accuse me of being cold hearted, but that's not true. I want kids, but I know the truth of this. Human life isn't sacred. We value it more because we are attached to it, we can relate to it. We romanticize it, make it poetic. It's the miracle of life. However it's nothing special. I know there's a few who regret their abortions afterwards, just like there's a ton who regret having kids altogether. We do things we regret, but the choice should still be up to us. There is something in the saying that we can't learn from the mistakes of others. Am I cold hearted for believing we should control our lives?
No, but grading the life of a being that will eventually become sentient is cold hearted. Grading life as a whole is.

Look, I am going to have to back out of this.

I went through hell, this is a very... Personal debate. Heh, I always get drawn into abortion/parenthood/rape/daterape/mentalhealth threads and I usually back out of them for the same reasons. Too close to home.

In levels of biological complexity you are correct. But that argument leads me to the assumption that you believe biological complexity is what matters more. That is why I said it is a dead end argument. And again.

It is more than the sum of its parts. That is the bit that is important. You have to hold both views in mind, both its potential and what it really is. You cannot ignore the potential. If you do not hold what it will become to account, no doctor would ever allow someone to go through pregnancy. A parasite, consuming your food and changing your body that can potentially kill you? But that is what it is.

The logical conclusion of the biological complexity argument is for humanity to be sterilized to prevent parasites from entering females and for humanity to live entirely on vegetables for the 80 or so years it takes for us to finally die out. Which is why I say the biological complexity argument is a pointless side to the entire debate, in some ways it is the entire debate and in others it has nothing to do with the debate. Sure, it has been made many, many times by people who are pro choice. And, I would like to restate this, I am pro choice and I see the merits of the argument. But... There is a lot more to this then just how complex the creature is and boiling it down to cold, logical science alone is, in my eyes, a defence issue.

Not because people think they are murdering children, they are not. But because it is a scary prospect. I have been there, I have stood on the cliff edge, I know what it looks like from the inside. The science scares people. Humanity has advanced to the point where we can detect and end the life of humans before it even begins. The potential scares people. There is a small part, however minute, that whispers the potentials of that group of cells into your ear.

But by concentrating on the cold science, by distancing yourself behind an argument which is both bulletproof and unrelated, you defend yourself from the realities of the action.

Abortion is neither right nor wrong. Each and every case is subjective and where possible should be a decision made by both of the people involved. But the biological argument alone, without the moral questions, is... Not enough.
I will not pry into your personal life, I am trying to avoid doing so, but if you feel I am getting to close, ignore that and call me an asshole. I do have problems restraining myself when I get worked up and I will apologize in advance in the case I should push it too far.

I am grading life on what is, not what will be. We don't understand animals, but they do at times understand us more than we're comfortable with. So saying that animals aren't sentient is pure ignorance. Humans are still worth more in our eyes. If I had a dog and it had a disease that would kill it with no hope of survival, then I would most likely decide to put it down as soon as it got too much pain to be able to enjoy being alive. This actually happened, so know it to be true. If my mom had or any of my loved ones had a disease that would kill them I would want whoever that was to live as long as possible. I too am guilty of putting a human life higher than that of any other.

I have never said that a foetus never will become a human being. I started this discussion with the statement that a foetus isn't a human being. A foetus could be described as a parasite by using a vague description, but I think that is inaccurate. It's a part of a reproductive cycle which is fairly successful because it offers protection to the developing life. I will never call a foetus a parasite, because I know too much biology for that. I'm not saying that we should not eat meat because of its biological complexity. I am saying that if you are pro-life and say it's because abortion should be banned because we're killing humans, then you shouldn't be fine with eating thinking feeling pigs.

I can debate this without going into the cold hearted science and rather go into psychology and social anthropology too. This is one of the points where I might be touching a bit close to home, so feel free to skip this.
A kid brought into a world unwanted may end up having great parents and live a great life, bringing joy to the parents and to the world around him or her. It could also be brought into a life of abuse and suffering. Always being accused of ruining the family, always feeling like no-one cares about him or her. Some survive this, some get stronger, some get broken and the worst part is that some grow up to become abusive parents and get new kids that will suffer what they had to suffer. I would want to see a world without child abuse, but knowing this is unrealistic I would settle for seeing less kids born into families where this could be a problem.

Both you and I believe that humans are a lot of things, that we are made of many things. One of those things that make us human is our ability to choose, our desire to choose. We do our choices, good or bad, regret or not. Taking away our choice because others have a problem with it would be to take away a small part of our humanity. Call me cold hearted if you wish, but I do value human life, which means I value more than the start of it. I will also thank you for actually making an effort to get your points across, you have made this an interesting discussion rather than most of what you come across while discussion abortion. You are right that biological knowledge isn't enough, but that is how this discussion started in this case. If someone who's pro-life starts rambling on about how we are killing tiny humans, then I will protest that because that is in every way a lie. If someone who's pro-life starts discussing morals I will discuss the morals and the ethics and the hypothetical scenarios around it. I believe that we should choose ourselves, but it shouldn't be easy to choose that for anyone.
 

EeveeElectro

Cats.
Aug 3, 2008
7,055
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Top myself >.<

Seriously, I'd probably abort. I've been on the pill for 2 years, but I know these things can happen but it's not like I'm going out and having unprotected sex whenever I can.
At the minute I can barely afford to feed myself, never mind a mini-me.
Hopefully in a few years I'll be properly settled down with a better job, then I can start thinking about having one.
 

Kargathia

New member
Jul 16, 2009
1,657
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BOOM headshot65 said:
Wait, wait, wait...WHAT?! But I am a dude?! How does this work?!?!?!

ps, the poll makes me sad (50% abortion)
It's a demographic heavily biased towards the 16-25 group. If anything I'm surprised it's that low.