Pope Francis Describes Internet as "A Gift From God"

[Gabanuka]

snip

In no way does it

dismiss the ingenuity, creativity, and enduring efforts of those who conceived of and built it.

. All of that still happened, no one is saying it didn't. What 'Gift' implies is that the spark was divine, God was there to inspire the creators to work. Like how Beethoven was inspired by pure joy when he wrote his 9th Symphony or Miyamoto was inspired by adventure when he set to work on LoZ.

If the Pope had thanked God for the internet I would see you're point, that's imply God did the majority of the work and the people were just pawns.

 

[SanguiniusMagnificum]

Hey look, a homophobic, child molesting fuckwit who made a positive comment about the internet. What a swell guy!

Dude, not cool. Pope Francis may be one of least fuckwitty popes that we've had in recent history. Guy's been trying to reverse all the homophobic and child molesting aspects of the Catholic church and you gotta give him some credit for that.

Yes. Clearly, the guy who has openly said that homosexual adoption is basically child abuse is obviously against homophobia.

Baby steps, mate, baby steps. You can't expect the head of a religious institution to suddenly drop centuries of prejudice and religious doctrine. It's called diplomacy. I'm deeply ashamed that I'll have to resort to the "at least he's trying" argument, but yeah, that's exactly what I'm going to do.

At least he's trying to warm up to the homosexual community by trying to stop the hostilities against them instead of calling them Satan's spawn and condemning them to burn in eternity like his predecessors.

What I'm trying to say is that he still has to be diplomatical about his statements on *cough cough* "controversial topics" so that he doesn't piss off most of the other bigwigs in the Catholic church (It's not like he's the God-Emperor of Catholicism, he still has to find a compromise with the cardinals).

 

[Thaluikhain]

At least he's trying to warm up to the homosexual community by trying to stop the hostilities against them instead of calling them Satan's spawn and condemning them to burn in eternity like his predecessors.

He said gay marriage was an attack by Satan on Christians. Now, strictly speaking, yeah, he didn't say it about gay people, but...still rather obviously homophobic.

If he wanted to tone down the homophobia, but the church is full of bigots that won't let him say anything nice, he could shut the hell up instead.

 

[anthony87]

I can't help but wonder if this is how he genuinely feels or if it's just good PR.

 

[viranimus]

It's almost like Pope Hitleryouth McCoverup was a deliberate hate lightning rod so when this guy comes around everyone loves him.

Yeah, because its not like Ratzinger ever did anything to try to correct any of the atrocities going on in the church.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2541548/Revealed-Pope-Benedict-XVI-defrocked-400-priests-sexually-molesting-children-just-two-years.html

Or maybe it was just like what is pretty typical, people judge on appearances, assume he is Emperor Palpitation and thus MUST be evil.

 

[Bazaalmon]

Now that the pope has joined the 21st century, perhaps we could get a "Christianity Lite Edition" to go with it.

Think about it, a religion that focuses on teaching people to be good human beings and not convoluting the whole message with ghost stories and imaginary friends.

Spoiler: disclaimer

And before anyone jumps on my back for that comment; I'm not an Atheist, I was christened and raised Catholic, and a very spiritually open person.

My dislike for the church comes from going to a Catholic school, where an untucked shirt was a sin, but good grades earned no praise. For most of my teenage life I have been spiritually jaded and I blame the catholic faith for it.

Sorry if I have offended anyone, my bad.

I believe Christianity lite is know as Unitarian! *Rim shot*
But seriously, I am a Unitarian myself, and I have no belief in some sort of higher deity. The minister at my meeting house is a great guy, and combines teachings from all faiths and beliefs from Islam to Christianity to Wicca. He's even done a sermon made almost entirely of Monty Python references. There's no religious requirements or prayer or anything required. The only real teaching is that life is a gift from whatever source you choose, and we shouldn't waste it being hateful and bigoted. No funny mixed messages, just do more good than harm and you win at religion.

OT: It's good to see that this pope is reaching out more than previous ones. There's still a ways to go to undo the image the catholic church has created, but he's off to a good start. Baby steps people, baby steps.

 

[Yarkaz]

I'm writing an article on this guy right now and I've interviewed several people of various faiths or nonfaiths about their thoughts on him. Doesn't seem to matter who you are or what you believe, everyone really likes this pope.

 

[cikame]

While i question whether the internet could truely be delivered by a spiritual being, over the people who i can see and touch and thank repeatedly for their effort and intelligence, i will admit that the things i find on the internet could be described as being "gifts from god"... i'm talking about... you know what i'm talking about.

 

[VanTesla]

You could interpret his wording of God as in that God gave humans life and the knowledge to possibly accomplish such things as the internet, but that is maybe going deeper into what he is saying and maybe is not what he is saying at all. By the current small time he has been in I almost will give him the benefit of the doubt that is what he actually means when he said those words which is fine to me and I am not even a christian or religious person. Usually when people do good/great things religious organizations will interpret god/gods had a hand in guiding humans towards it and when bad things happen it is because of evil/devil/etc pushing man to do such things...

So far this knew Pope has done more in his short time to fix wrongs and give a better perception of the Catholic church in a longtime while still spreading the more positives of the Bible and teachings. Not to say he couldn't do more or take further steps in this ever changing world and to nix some of the long bs dogma, intolerance, and corruption still plaguing the Catholic church.

Setting aside that God can be invoked for anything anyone wants to invoke it for and that Gods putatively infallible mouthpiece on Earth should be expected not to require interpretation, I suppose my issue is that he doesn't seem to mention the humans involved in the gift at all. Not even as guided hands or faithful servants enacting Gods will or being enlightened or inspired or what have you. They just do not appear to matter, even as a tool in Gods design. For me, this has the effect of diminishing the spirit of the thing...not simply because of the irrelevance of man (we're pretty irrelevant in any model of the universe, even the ones where we think we're important), but because that perspective itself reduces the entire universe to little more than an over-glorified ant farm. I believe, with or without God, it is or should be much more than that.

That said I'll also admit to being deeply suspicious and leery about giving the benefit of the doubt to a man fronting what could just as well be seen as little more than a massive PR campaign for a troubled organization that has all too recently endured serious scandal under the administration of the previous incumbent. An incumbent who notably stepped down from a traditionally until-death position to make room for long overdue change of attitudes.

When we see this sort of behavior in secular corporate bodies, it comes across as obvious face saving. An attempt to salvage the image of the organism from the vagaries of public opinion. Why should we view it as anything else here?

Again, I agree with his sentiments in broad terms, but a lot of what he's been saying and doing feels a bit too pat and in line with the opinions of traditional opposition to immediately consider sincere. If it makes them a better and more inclusive community, fine. If they really mean it even better, but I'm not going to jump on the bandwagon just because it pulled a few unexpected 180s to flirt with my beliefs on a few issues. That's something the Catholic Church has a long history of and it does not impress upon me their sincerity for anything other than their bottomless hunger for converts and a pressing need to shed the ignominy of recent decades.

They've got a much longer road to walk towards sincerity than admitting that humans are human and eloquently restating something we already knew about the internet.

I do agree with you that it is most likely PR, but so far this guy has been doing what he has said, but we won't know if he is truly legit or just another face until a few more years I think before I can actually believe in the guy or not. I am mostly pessimistic when it comes to any big group that has so much power and has the ability to bypass laws that are put on the citizens and can get away with things that if tried on a normal citizen would be jailed... At the same time I don't want to completely lose faith that some people are truly trying their best to help others and make a better world.

 

[faefrost]

A gift from God? Apparently nobody has sent the Pope a link to 4chan yet?

 

[hermes]

While I agree with the papal sentiment here in general terms, I chafe at the implication that God created the Internet just for us to sort ourselves out. It comes across as a touch dismissive of the lowly humans who actively sweat and toil over the digital mess, and in the face of the Popes own cutting insight about our reflection and judgement? Rather ignorant of the attendant evils.

This just in; religious leader clams X/Y/Z is a gift from god.

I get that he's the head, the guiding light, the primary focal point of the Catholic and Christian faiths, but does he have to undermine his own inspirational speech about humanity's will and accomplishments with that detestable four word phrase?

You guys do know that "gift from god" is a figure of speech, right?

It means something that is, in general, a good thing for people. It doesn't mean that God literally came down from the heavens to bestow the Internet to us...

 

[VanTesla]

At least he's trying to warm up to the homosexual community by trying to stop the hostilities against them instead of calling them Satan's spawn and condemning them to burn in eternity like his predecessors.

He said gay marriage was an attack by Satan on Christians. Now, strictly speaking, yeah, he didn't say it about gay people, but...still rather obviously homophobic.

If he wanted to tone down the homophobia, but the church is full of bigots that won't let him say anything nice, he could shut the hell up instead.

Well it's better than the usual dogmatic hate so baby steps are better than nothing... I mean an example with another big issue way back was that Lincoln was never going to free the slaves and only did so because of the Southern States that seceded and still only after a few years into the war and even though he was always against slavery in principal he has had statements and remarks that he felt the majority of black Americans where inferior to white Americans. Why I decided to use Lincoln as an example is for he was put in a posistion to free them and give them rights but at the same time did not think of them as complete equals. Now this Pope has been mixed in statements while condeming gay marriage he also has said to stop hate on gays and that even he does not have the right to judge them so it's a start after a two millenniums... Maybe in a few more years he will finally come out and say it is ok, but that is just being a bit hopeful.

 

[VanTesla]

I would not make the assumption all of the people that worked on the internet where atheist, but a mix of some religious believers, atheist, and agnostics.

When I was saying that I meant the guys that spearheaded the technology, obviously it wasn't just one guy in his backyard on Sunday morning building the first computer. Or have the atheist facebook pages been feeding me biased information!?

My apologies I was just thinking you ment all involved and not the person that headed the project. Honestly I don't know who was the original guy that speaheaded it and don't care enough to look up at the moment so I will assume at the moment your information is correct for you looked up the source. Of course I would not be surprised if there is controversy on who was the actual person who came up with the idea for many I have no doubt tried to say they where the first be it they played a part or not. Also my assumption on most groups that are for religious or non-religious organizations have biased facts on mostly every subject to spin anything done by them as bigger or more involved then they actually are in anything. That is a bit pessimistic of me to presume that all organizations do that, but based on most things that come out many have done and showed such behaviours be it from the top to the bottom or just some mindless idiot spouting things with no actual fact or evidence to back up such claims. That last sentence was not directed towards you or anyone in particular just to clear that up if anyone thought I was directing it towards them.

Ive seen it in a couple of posts, particularly those aimed at bigoted Christians, using Facebook and the line to spread hateful messages to non-believers, homosexuals, etc. Particularly the irony of using Facebook (Mar Zuckerberg, atheist) on the internet (developed by an atheist) on a computer (created by a gay atheist, that would have rather killed himself then go to a 're-education' center, which he did).

Still I would hate for this news post to devolve into a Religion bashing thread. This popes been trying to do some good but he's hed down by the backwards system, supposedly god, but forgive me if I ain't buying it. Especially if the pope is supposed to be the direct line to god and he by extension god says; 'faithful gays stil go to heaven', but then he and by extension god had to take that back. So either 'god' was murmuring that in his sleep, or the old farts in dresses don't like bending the rules to be more humane.

To me it is never right to use bigotry and to force your beliefs onto others or that one group is some how superior to another. That is my belief that I try to stand by and if I ever make judgements that are false I accept my ignorance and try to correct my mistakes. I mean we humans tend to make a lot of mistakes and sometimes those mistakes hurt others and the best thing to do is try not to repeat them and better your self through life experiences.

 

[Vigormortis]

...Agnostic, despite what the general opinion is, does not mean "unsure of the existence of deities"...

Actually, it does, at least at this moment in time. Dictionaries are descriptive, not perscriptive.
To put it another way, when Huxley used the word Agnostic as describing a person who is unsure of the existence of god/gods and subsequently once people started using it that way, the word took on that meaning. These days that definition is listed in most dictionaries.

If today you decide that the same word should mean chocolate dessert and enough people start using the word in that fashion, that definition will be added to the dictionary.

Except that dictionaries aren't infallible. Many dictionaries have "an immoral person" within their definitions of Atheist. A definition that is as repugnant and insulting as it is false.

Besides, just because the vast majority of people use a word incorrectly, it doesn't mean we need to change the meaning of the word. It means we need to educate people on the true meaning. Popular opinion does not necessarily equate to truth.

Gnostic is derived from the Greek word gnosis, which means "to know" or "knowledge". Before the term was usurped by the Christian, Islamic, and Jewish faiths, a gnostic was someone who claimed knowledge of something; usually in reference to the ethereal or the supernatural, but not always. An agnostic was someone who had no such knowledge, or rather had no claim to absolute certainty of such knowledge.

Theism is simply the belief in the existence of a deity. Atheism is the non-acceptance of Theistic claims. It has nothing to do with ones claim to certainty or knowledge therein. Someone can believe there are deities but can also claim to have no definitive knowledge or proof of their existence. This is what an Agnostic Theist would be. Whereas someone who claims deities exist and that they have definitive knowledge of their existence is a Gnostic Theist and someone who is uncertain of the exist of deities and claims no knowledge either way is an Agnostic Atheist.

The fact is Gnosticism, in the modern sense, refers to a persons claim to a level of knowledge. Agnosticism is the absences of such a claim. So when someone calls his-or-herself an Agnostic, they're basically just saying, "I'm someone who doesn't know."

You need the Theist or Atheist moniker added in for the statement to make sense. Otherwise you're just telling us you don't know anything.

 

[Vigormortis]

You guys do know that "gift from god" is a figure of speech, right?

It means something that is, in general, a good thing for people. It doesn't mean that God literally came down from the heavens to bestow the Internet to us...

It's a figure of speech in reference to the idea that a divine force bestowed a thing onto the lowly masses as a gift.

Being a common phrase does not diminish the core implications of the phrase.

 

[Vigormortis]

In no way does it

dismiss the ingenuity, creativity, and enduring efforts of those who conceived of and built it.

. All of that still happened, no one is saying it didn't. What 'Gift' implies is that the spark was divine, God was there to inspire the creators to work. Like how Beethoven was inspired by pure joy when he wrote his 9th Symphony or Miyamoto was inspired by adventure when he set to work on LoZ.

If the Pope had thanked God for the internet I would see you're point, that's imply God did the majority of the work and the people were just pawns.

The "spark"? Are you serious?

You can try to disguise it with word play but you, and indeed this pope, are implying that humans couldn't have conceived of nor built such a thing as the internet without a deity "gifting" it to us.

God is not joy. Joy is a chemical reaction in the brain brought on by external stimuli. If joy inspired Beethoven to write his 9th symphony, then it was his own mind that inspired the song and his own creativity that wrote it, not a deity.

I get that you see the divine in everything, and that's fine. I do not. I believe we are intelligent enough and intuitive enough to come up with these things all on our own.

We don't need a divine "spark" to tell us what to do.

 

[VaporWare]

You guys do know that "gift from god" is a figure of speech, right?

It means something that is, in general, a good thing for people. It doesn't mean that God literally came down from the heavens to bestow the Internet to us...

If it were anyone other than the leader of one of the most vast and influential branches of the Abrahamic faiths, a man who by definition must believe to execute the performance of the office to which he has risen, I might leave it at that. But the Pope does not invoke God in vain and remain, in spirit at least, the Pope. In this respect, I feel I must grant him his conviction of faith at the very least and take his words at face value.

That said, words shape our habits of thought. Calling something a gift from God as a mere turn of phrase, without even the barest acknowledgement of it's actual origins, is a road towards taking a thing for granted, as though it has always and will always be a part of the world we live in.

 

[Ratty]

I guess associating yourself with something everybody likes is one way to continue to change the image of the Church after all the scandals of the last decade. But I do agree with him that the extra communication provided by the internet has been overall very positive in bringing people together and shattering prejudices. Take the movement for equal rights for LGBT persons as just one example.

But calling it a "gift from God" kind of flies in the face of all of the men and women who's hard work has gone into creating and maintaining this wonderful scientific achievement. Whatever the intention of the statement it's like saying "God decided we should have it so we would have gotten it with or without them." It's like when someone has a life saving surgery and they then thank God, but don't give a second thought to thanking all those who have worked for the advances in medical science and the doctors who did the operation.

 

[Someone Depressing]

...The pope changed?

Did you know that 600 offenses are commited in Vatican City a year, giving it the highest crime rate of any country? And that the age of consent? Really, the Vatican is the real Jersey or our world, not the Jersey of... this world.

I do agree with him, though. It's pretty awesome that people are acceptiong the Internet.