Print Media Hot Takes

Hawki

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I'd say there's a bit more of a trade-off than that. Frodo had a way better portrayal in the books, rather than the whiny, weak, useless thing he was in the movie. A lot of characters got a better representation, actually.
Where, though?

You can a reasonable case for some, but a much harder case for others. I can understand someone liking book!Faramir more for instance (even if I disagree), but in what world is book!Arwen better than movie!Arwen for instance, when the former's story is only really held in the appendicies.

My own LOTR hot take is that it really has quite an odd message. Some people are just better than others and it all depends on who your parents were. If you are born from a race of kings, then you are noble and pure and get to live for centuries and are the only one fit to rule the kingdom. You're really screwed if you are anyone else, unless you were born an elf, in which case life is a dream so sweet mortal man could not even dream it. There isn't really any possibility for movement out of your class.
Alright, cold take - you're wrong.

True, I can see what you're getting at in parts - Aragorn becomes king of Gondor because of linneage for instance. However, there's a reason that it's a hobbit of all people who's able to withstand the One Ring whereas wiser, more powerful people would succumb to it. And your take on elves is understandable in a vacuum, but it flies in the face of the intended themes (i.e. what elves call "the Gift of Men" (mortality) was corrupted into "the Doom of Men," and Numenor fell to that same pride and avarice).

The irony is that by idolizing the elves, you're doing the very thing that the books say NOT to do (if you're a human that is).

The A Song of Ice and Fire/ Game of Thrones books are mediocre to average at best and George Martin is overrated as an author.
Go home, you're drunk.

Also, even if I agreed that the books were such things, Martin's written good stuff outside ASoIaF. Take Haviland Tuf for instance.
 
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twistedmic

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Go home, you're drunk.

Also, even if I agreed that the books were such things, Martin's written good stuff outside ASoIaF. Take Haviland Tuf for instance.
Of all the fantasy books I've read in my life, ASoIaF is firmly in the middle of the pack. I'd even say more towards the back of the middle. I've read books that were more emotionally engaging with better world building, better characters, better/cleaner narratives with less exposition and extraneous detail.
Having an editor or two pick through the books and trim off some of the fat would have greatly benefited ASoIaF.

Martin might be a good writer, I can't really say as I haven't read his other work, but he is not as fantastic as people think. If he were it would not have been more than a decade since his last ASoIaF book was published.
 
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Hawki

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Of all the fantasy books I've read in my life, ASoIaF is firmly in the middle of the pack. I'd even say more towards the back of the middle. I've read books that were more emotionally engaging with better world building, better characters, better/cleaner narratives with less exposition and extraneous detail.
So, that's subjective, and fair enough. Speaking personally, I put ASoIaF at the top of the pack through those same things, especially in regards to characters and worldbuilding.

Having an editor or two pick through the books and trim off some of the fat would have greatly benefited ASoIaF.
I kind of agree there though, at least when it comes to A Feast for Crows. I think it's there that the series really started getting out of hand, especially when one considers that it was originally intended as a trilogy.

Martin might be a good writer, I can't really say as I haven't read his other work, but he is not as fantastic as people think. If he were it would not have been more than a decade since his last ASoIaF book was published.
I think that's fair in a sense, but the time period since The Winds of Winter isn't a question of quality, IMO. As in, we can question how and why Martin is so slow, but in regards to the writing itself, it's pretty good.

As to how/why, from what I've read, Martin is more of a pantser than a plotter when it comes to writing. In that sense, it's astounding that the setting is as fleshed out as it is, but it also explains why there's been large gaps between books.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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Don Quixote is boring to read because every chapter has the exact same structure. It's basically like a really formulaic sitcom in book form. I'm not sure if the later chapters deviate from this because I haven't been able to get to them. Every time I read the book I get fatigued from every chapter I'm reading being the same joke over and over with slight different scenarios so I have to stop reading for a few weeks before coming back to it.
 
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Drathnoxis

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Where, though?

You can a reasonable case for some, but a much harder case for others. I can understand someone liking book!Faramir more for instance (even if I disagree), but in what world is book!Arwen better than movie!Arwen for instance, when the former's story is only really held in the appendicies.
I thought Merry and Pippin were better in the books, they get more page-time, and really drive the adventure at the start. In the movies they're just robbing some farmer's field and decide that going with Frodo to destroy an evil ring sounds like a right lark. They get some moments in the movies, but overall they are better in the books.

I'm not saying all of them were better, just some. Especially Frodo.

Alright, cold take - you're wrong.

True, I can see what you're getting at in parts - Aragorn becomes king of Gondor because of linneage for instance. However, there's a reason that it's a hobbit of all people who's able to withstand the One Ring whereas wiser, more powerful people would succumb to it. And your take on elves is understandable in a vacuum, but it flies in the face of the intended themes (i.e. what elves call "the Gift of Men" (mortality) was corrupted into "the Doom of Men," and Numenor fell to that same pride and avarice).

The irony is that by idolizing the elves, you're doing the very thing that the books say NOT to do (if you're a human that is).
The amount of time he spends talking about how great elves and kings and elven kings are far outweighs the amount of time he spends talking up hobbits. It's not like Frodo resisted the ring all that well anyway, he would have failed his quest if it hadn't been for Gollum.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion already.
 

Hawki

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I thought Merry and Pippin were better in the books, they get more page-time, and really drive the adventure at the start. In the movies they're just robbing some farmer's field and decide that going with Frodo to destroy an evil ring sounds like a right lark. They get some moments in the movies, but overall they are better in the books.
I'm not sure how they "drive" the adventure in the books. If anything, there's little drive at all when Frodo's leaving the Shire. "Oh no, Sauron's after me...I better get all my affairs in order over a period of weeks/months before setting out."

The amount of time he spends talking about how great elves and kings and elven kings are far outweighs the amount of time he spends talking up hobbits. It's not like Frodo resisted the ring all that well anyway, he would have failed his quest if it hadn't been for Gollum.
I'm not sure if the books spend that much more time on hobbits rather than kings. The first chapter of Fellowship is literally called "Concerning Hobbits," and hobbits get their own section in the appendicies alongside elves and Men (but not dwarves - boo!). But even then, that's academic. Frodo is THE main character in Lord of the Rings, it starts in the Shire, ends in the Shire, it's a clear theme that it's a hobbit of all people that resists the One Ring, and yes, sure, Gollum helps Frodo, but that's in the sense of a guide. Sam's the one who helps Frodo emotionally, and Sam is, of course, a hobbit.

Anyway, I'm pretty sure we've had this discussion already.
Maybe, but meh, what ya gonna do?
 

BrawlMan

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Scott Pilgrim is an okay comic book, but it is vastly overrated. I get it, there's tons of video game references, but as I said before Scott's a dick, and so is most of the supporting cast. I get that's the point, but you're still supposed to like him or find them endearing and sympathetic. I can't get behind some mid 20s guy lusting after a teenager, then dumping her, then avoiding her to avoid his own problems and mistakes for another girl closer to his age. I know it's part of the theme and point, but that doesn't help or make it any more interesting. I find the comic and the movie itself get less relevant each year for me. And I only knew about the comic, because of the movie. The only thing you can get me invested for the properties if I'm playing the video game. That's about it.

Gunm/Battle Angel is one of the better long-running manga series. Though even it has a slip-ups. Last Order suffers from Tournament Arc-itis midway through. Mars Chronicles is going to be the final series in the timeline. Outside of the first two volumes, is one long flashback that delves into Gally's/Yoko's past and backstory to the overall universe (hence the name of the title). It works surprisingly well and keep the reader invested, but I hope soon the author gets finished with the flashbacks after the next volume that comes out in a few months.
 
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Mister Mumbler

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Speaking of Tolkien, anyone else find it strange that we never see a Dwarven settlement not be a completely desolate graveyard? In fact, come to think of it, the only time we see a large group of Dwarves is during the battle near the end of The Hobbit.
 

Drathnoxis

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I'm not sure how they "drive" the adventure in the books. If anything, there's little drive at all when Frodo's leaving the Shire. "Oh no, Sauron's after me...I better get all my affairs in order over a period of weeks/months before setting out."



I'm not sure if the books spend that much more time on hobbits rather than kings. The first chapter of Fellowship is literally called "Concerning Hobbits," and hobbits get their own section in the appendicies alongside elves and Men (but not dwarves - boo!). But even then, that's academic. Frodo is THE main character in Lord of the Rings, it starts in the Shire, ends in the Shire, it's a clear theme that it's a hobbit of all people that resists the One Ring, and yes, sure, Gollum helps Frodo, but that's in the sense of a guide. Sam's the one who helps Frodo emotionally, and Sam is, of course, a hobbit.



Maybe, but meh, what ya gonna do?
Merry and Pippin do a great deal of the planning and Merry leads the way on their first leg of the adventure until they run into Tom Bombadil.

I meant more that Gollum bites off the ring and suicides.
Speaking of Tolkien, anyone else find it strange that we never see a Dwarven settlement not be a completely desolate graveyard? In fact, come to think of it, the only time we see a large group of Dwarves is during the battle near the end of The Hobbit.
Probably so he could avoid the question of Dwarven females.
 

Hawki

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Speaking of Tolkien, anyone else find it strange that we never see a Dwarven settlement not be a completely desolate graveyard? In fact, come to think of it, the only time we see a large group of Dwarves is during the battle near the end of The Hobbit.
I can see what you're getting at, but it does fit thematically. One of the core motifs of Lord of the Rings is that of the old world passing away. The dwarves are past their prime in the same way as the elves. That Moria is a charnal house does reflect this, arguably more than anything through the lyrics of Durin's Song, starting with "the world was young," and ending with "the world is grey."
 

Drathnoxis

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I can see what you're getting at, but it does fit thematically. One of the core motifs of Lord of the Rings is that of the old world passing away. The dwarves are past their prime in the same way as the elves. That Moria is a charnal house does reflect this, arguably more than anything through the lyrics of Durin's Song, starting with "the world was young," and ending with "the world is grey."
[implying that people actually manage to read the songs all the way through]
 

Hawki

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[implying that people actually manage to read the songs all the way through]
First, that's a non sequitur. Not reading something through doesn't change the intended/interpreted meaning of the text.

Second, it's actually burnt into my head through song. There's a brilliant renition of Durin's Song and other poems/songs on YouTube. Really aided my appreciation of it.
 

Thaluikhain

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The amount of time he spends talking about how great elves and kings and elven kings are far outweighs the amount of time he spends talking up hobbits. It's not like Frodo resisted the ring all that well anyway, he would have failed his quest if it hadn't been for Gollum.
Also, Frodo doesn't have a job, he's an idle rich layabout. Not aristocracy or royalty, because the hobbits don't seem to have that, but from the next best thing, the upper class of the hobbits. Sam is the only working class character of note.
 

Drathnoxis

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X,Y, or Z would work better for the joke. Funnily enough, this story actually treats the word "dimension" properly. It doesn't just mean "another world" but actually refers to another axis on which things move.
Hawki's working at it alphabetically.
 

Gordon_4

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First, that's a non sequitur. Not reading something through doesn't change the intended/interpreted meaning of the text.

Second, it's actually burnt into my head through song. There's a brilliant renition of Durin's Song and other poems/songs on YouTube. Really aided my appreciation of it.

Was it these guys? Cos they’re fuckin’ amazing.