Probably not getting a minimum wage hike.

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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...but their policies out-poll everyone else.
Maybe. But policies that are supported in the abstract don't always come out as popular in practice. For instance, ask someone "Do you like X" they say yes. But then put it as "You can have X, but your taxes go up 3% and it's more power to the federal gubmint" or "X is socialism", they might cool substantially. Secondly that at the point some sort of policy proposal emerges, it becomes a more solid target to attack; this means people can like the abstract concept, but not the concrete afer it's hit with a brutal campaign of opposition.

The other issue is that a voter might theoretically like a candidate's policies, but if they also think the candidate is a whiny feminist BLM SJW etc., they'll just give a hard pass anyway.
 

Revnak

We must imagine Sisyphus horny
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Maybe, sounds like Booker should have tried harder to win the primary.
“Tried harder” the National party has no sway then? All the endorsements and donations, the entire democratic machine, completely powerless and meaningless? This wasn’t at all part of the DNC’s and Schumer’s plans and they are utterly powerless? Then why have any of them? Why vote for a single democrat if there’s so little any of them can do in any scenario?

I get that you, like all libs, are obsessed with the particular morals, can do spirit, and personality of individuals. You cannot imagine a group of people have any implicit power or authority independent of the individual abilities of its members. I get that you have no conception of reality as a thing, only ideas and principles. It’s very sad. So please, go back to just watching your YouTube videos. You don’t have to pretend to care about this shit.
 

Revnak

We must imagine Sisyphus horny
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Maybe. But policies that are supported in the abstract don't always come out as popular in practice. For instance, ask someone "Do you like X" they say yes. But then put it as "You can have X, but your taxes go up 3% and it's more power to the federal gubmint" or "X is socialism", they might cool substantially. Secondly that at the point some sort of policy proposal emerges, it becomes a more solid target to attack; this means people can like the abstract concept, but not the concrete afer it's hit with a brutal campaign of opposition.

The other issue is that a voter might theoretically like a candidate's policies, but if they also think the candidate is a whiny feminist BLM SJW etc., they'll just give a hard pass anyway.
Isn’t that just more damning for the Dems then? Their ideas are popular but they’re being so utterly destroyed in the one role a party/representative is meant to fulfill, drum up support for particular action and enact it. If you accept what you’re saying here, you should hate the Dems more, not less.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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But since it has been brought up, it's fun to look at McGrath's total failure against McConnell as the starkest example of the failed Democrat strategy of courting moderates and conservatives more than their base.

We can start with party ID: McGrath won Democrats (30% of respondents) 86 to 13, makes sense.
McConnell won Republicans (46%) 90 to 5, which makes sense and you might notice, is a much stronger lead on his base than McGrath had on hers, despite McGrath aiming to take votes away from his base, so there's a complete failure.
Finally Independents (25%), McConnell won 51 to 41, which is a pretty big washout and the other demographic that the Democrat party wants to tap so they don't have to listen to their left, dumped her too.

When we move to ideology (liberal, moderate, conservative), the numbers are similar with McConnel winning harder in his demographic than McGrath in hers, but the moderate axis is flipped with McGrath winning it 51 to 43, the closest we get to breathing life into the Democrat strategy. Of course we can see that the liberal turnout was small and the moderate difference wasn't that high, so the strategy didn't pay dividends.

There are a lot of other metrics you can dissect, but there's one last one I want to point out as being truly important here, where. McGrath won Jefferson County and nowhere else in the broad geographical sense. Her next best area was the area around northern Kentucky, which has Jefferson county (but is not included as part of this demographic, I presume) which she lost by 7 points. The only place she won was 18% of the overall vote and she lost the rest of the state by 7 to 52 points.

Centrists will look at this and say that's why blue can't win in red states. Instead let's look at Georgia. Ossoff vs Perdue. Ossoff isn't what anyone would call progressive, he's kind of a dud too, but he was dressed up better than McGrath, and there was a massive grass roots movement in the urban centers to propel him up.

So by party ID he did nearly as well with Democrats as Perdue did with Republicans, but there was a much higher Dem turnout compared to McGrath so that victory was more meaningful. Similarly, he did better with independents compared to McGrath, actually winning his share instead of losing it. Likewise in ideology he did better sucking votes away from his Republican opponent than McGrath did against McConnell, but further he won the moderate vote a whole lot harder than McGrath did (he won moderates by 29 points instead of 8).

So how did that happen? Ossoff still lost the rural areas, some as badly as McGrath did. But while McGrath only won in downtown Louisville, Ossoff won downtown Atlanta, but also the suburbs and stayed competitive in the surrounding areas. Ossoff's turnout in the urban center was higher than McGrath's and the areas surrounded that urban center (which despite being suburbs, is actually quite urbane) came out hard for him, as opposed to McGrath where the vote was depressed and thus went handily to McConnell. As we saw on the night of the vote, people had come out to drive the vote in Atlanta and it's area, not by promising to be electable, not by saying he was some fighter pilot, not by kissing up to Trump, but by putting forward strong people-centric promises of policy. That's what drove what the Democrats say is their strategy. We have a handy dandy comparison to show how effective it is and can pretty solidly conclude that going left (even pretending to) drives the core out to vote.

And this bares out in those other demographic statistics in the exit polls. In Kentucky the majority of the votes cast were rural and went to McConnel, in Georgia rural votes were the minority. In Kentucky the suburban votes were the minority and they went hard to McConnel anyway, in Georgia they were the majority and while they went to Perdue, it was by a much narrower margin to allow his much stronger urban vote to pull him ahead. Ossoff won the poor while McGrath lost them, in fact McGrath didn't win any demographic based on income (Funnily enough Ossoff also won with the rich, albeit narrowly, he only lost to the middle class because they're treacherous snakes). Ossoff won the young harder than McGrath, and turned out in greater numbers for Georgia than for Kentucky, burying the talking point that the young don't vote. Just ask them to and give them a reason to and they will. McGrath won the idologies of "Can unite the country" and "Has good judgement" and lost while Ossoff won those harder, but also the demographic of "Cares about people like me", which McGrath lost. Ossoff of course, won.

You can see this all cascade from starting in the urban centers and pushing out, driving at the bottom level not by appealing to moderates, but by making promises that will pull people to you, and that means making left friendly policies.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Isn’t that just more damning for the Dems then? Their ideas are popular but they’re being so utterly destroyed in the one role a party/representative is meant to fulfill, drum up support for particular action and enact it. If you accept what you’re saying here, you should hate the Dems more, not less.
Depends on which angle you mean.

Let's take the Affordable Care Act. The Republicans hate it, about three quarters wanting it overturned. But start splitting it into individual concepts, they're anywhere from about 40-60% opposed. So how exactly it is that Republicans view the conceptual policies about 50-50 evens, but as enacted 25-75 unpopular? What are the Democrats supposed to do about that?

In terms of the second, the social side of progressivism - social justice, BLM, feminism etc. - is part of these parties. So let's say they want to stop alienating certain voters, but to do that, they need to shut the fuck up about BLM, sexual assault, be tough on immigration, and keep hugging the Stars and Stripes. Some Republican is accused by 21 women of sexual assault, AOC has to frown soberly and say "These are terrible accusations that need to be carefully investigated, but let's remember that everyone is innocent until proven guilty". A cop guns down a black guy for nothing, Raphael Warnock has to explain to everyone how tough it is to be a policeman, and that he's confident this bad apple does not reflect the training and professionalism of law enforcement agents.

Actually, their voters won't stand for it. The shitstorm will rage from the NYT through to Tumblr as the same progressives who want $15 minimum wage and universal healthcare rage that they are not standing up for what's right, and confidence in the party amongst their key supporters will nosedive anyway.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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Biden and the Dems cave on the checks, lowering the eligibility. Even if you convinced them $1400 = $2000, millions of Americans are going to go into 2022 and 2024 knowing their last direct help from the government came from Donald Trump.
 

tippy2k2

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Biden and the Dems cave on the checks, lowering the eligibility. Even if you convinced them $1400 = $2000, millions of Americans are going to go into 2022 and 2024 knowing their last direct help from the government came from Donald Trump.
I can't imagine why anyone would ever think that The Democrats are just a bunch of lying fucksticks whose only purpose is to pretend to oppose Republicans while pushing for everything Republicans want.


It'll forever be a mystery I guess...
 
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tippy2k2

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It's amazing how quickly it went from "We'll push him left!!!" to absolute silence from the VBNMW crowd.

Almost like they all knew they were pitching nothing but lies to us but didn't care because they knew once Biden was in office, they could go back to ignoring politics since they're in a position where they can afford to do so. They can't even hold him accountable for the shit he DIRECTLY promised, let alone push him left on issues...
 
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Gergar12

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Jeanne Shaheen and Maggie Hassan are very progressive. Shaheen is hawkish on foreign policy but is very progressive on economics. The rest I get, but I wonder why those two voted no...
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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Jeanne Shaheen and Maggie Hassan are very progressive. Shaheen is hawkish on foreign policy but is very progressive on economics. The rest I get, but I wonder why those two voted no...
If somebody managed to dig out that the WH put pressure on them to say no, I wouldn't even be surprised. They already failed to put pressure on Manchin and Sinema.
 
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tippy2k2

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Did you see her little extra "Fuck You" Photo Pose when voting?



On the plus side, I now know the little Photo Pose I'm going to do in 2022/2024 when The Libs are once again begging me to vote for their shit candidate cause "We'll just push them Left once they're in office!!!"

At least assuming I'm being polite and using my thumb to tell them "No" and not be impolite and choose a different finger to show my love for The Democrats...
 
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