Protagonists You Can't Get Behind

TheMigrantSoldier

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Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
TheMigrantSoldier said:
Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
TheMigrantSoldier said:
Yeah, I dislike Minato from Persona 3. A lot of the times he involves himself in other lives, it feels wooden and out of character. He remains quiet and distant for most of the game. It gives off an impression that Minato doesn't really care much for those he makes bonds with, only their social links. At least P4's protagonist can become more upfront and casual in his dialogue.
THANK YOU. That is exactly why I hated Persona 3 and people claiming the main character isn't an emo. In all of the main plot, he acts extremely distant and quiet, so every social link is completely out of character. Persona 4 may have made him more of a Mary Sue, but at least he was consistant.
I think Minato's mary sue-ishness is a bit more obvious. He's cold, unfriendly and distant yet everyone looks to him as the leader they adore. Yu from P4 at least gives off a friendly, if withdrawn, demeanor to those around him. It's clear that he is more than willing to try and keep everyone satisfied and together, unless you're going for an alternate character interpretation.

It's the same thing with how Marie is loved by everyone despite how rude she is.
People like Marie!? I thought they just liked her plot, which while decent, doesn't explain why she is more tsundere then bloody Asuka. (Who was explained better then any other Tsundere) Every moment she was in the game I wanted to punch her (or use adidyne). It didn't help she ruined a perfect ending if you actually maxed her out.
I meant the actual in-game cast. Even when Marie insults them and their grandmothers, they still think of how awesome and funny she is.

As for the fandom, I really can't judge. I liked Rise...
 

Frission

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Timedraven 117 said:
The humans in Blade Runner. I'm like, "Alright! Its a movie where we root for the AIs who are trying to gain equality." Then its just a boring crime drama, where even as the robots are killing people just for slightly inconveniencing them i still can't help but think they are still the people i want to win and who are technically the good guys. Am I missing something? How was this considered a freaking classic?!

There are innumerable more but because they are so bad i just can't remember.
Well one thing that was interesting in blade runner is that every "real human" is decrepit. Count them all. They all have health or mental issues if they're not outright mutilated. That's a reason for the Tyler corps motto which is "more human than human".

It's a bit limiting to think of them as good or evil. The scene where Roy gives the "Tears in the rain" speech is supposed to show that the supposedly monstrous Roy still has possesses the very human fear of dying alone. It's a sad situation and there's no who's absolutely evil. There's even a question in the end of the film whether Deckard is a replicant as well.
 

Super Cyborg

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Rainbow_Dashtruction said:
There is actually reasons behind 'holding the aces' in a soundtrack. Lets say theres a super depressing scene late on. That scene will nearly double its impact if its either extremely rarely or completely new track used to accompany it. Music can make or break a perfect scene. If the player hears the same tracks over and over, the music might as well be white noise. This will eventually happen on repeated songs, no matter how good, and increases the closer the track is used. The 'sad' music track for Tales of the Abyss is used about 15 times in one hour after Luke re-unites with the gang, and hit the white noise feeling so incredibly fast it wasn't funny. This completely destroyed any impact of post-haircut Luke.

TL;DR, an over-used track is not fitting with any scene, whether its good or bad.


Secondly, Pre-haircut Luke is an annoying character, but he's full of personality and he makes sense. Post haircut he is a walking corpse, speaking only to further his already redundant plot as he trundles through the sudden hoard of party member tragic backstory number 47. He's not even a character anymore. The best you could say is he's not pre-haircut Luke anymore.
Ok, my mistake for misunderstanding. I was thinking you meant that the best music should be saved for last, which can be subjective. I do agree that certain tracks should be used sparingly, especially when they are meant to be used to emphasize a certain emotion. I think I know which one you are referring to, and they did reuse that track quite a bit, which can make scenes less impactful.

While Legend of Heroes: Trails in the Sky has a limited soundtrack, I think there was a few tracks that was used sparingly, which helped some of the later scenes. It also stopped and music for some scenes, which really helped it. I want the 2nd one to come out so bad, but at least it's been confirmed.
 

Darkbladex96

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Tsukuyomi said:
Zhukov said:
Been reading Dune recently.

Gotta say, the main character, Paul, is so bloody capable that I find it damn near impossible to give a shit about him.

He's super-duper smart, highly trained in the ways of basically everything. has perfect observation and perfect memory, can figure out almost anything at a glance, can learn any skill super quickly, can read people so well that he can almost read their minds, can kinda-sorta make people do what he says just by commanding them to. Oh, and of course he's physically adept at pretty much anything he tries his hand at.

Oh, and I almost forgot that he's also The Chosen One As Foretold by Prophesy And Legend. Although I'm pretty sure the author's going to try and pull something cute with that.

But yeah, makes it pretty hard to sympathise or fell any kind of tension. Even when the plot is getting all "Ohhhhh! Treachery! Drama! Danger!" all I can think is, "Eh, whatever, fucking Wunderkind here will have it under control in no time."
I enjoyed Dune very much, though I never thought of Paul like this. It's very true, though. Then again I kinda figured damn near everyone in the main cast was superhuman, with perhaps the exception of Gurney, but then again it's Gurney and he's such a lovable bastard that you can't fault him for it. Plus his memory is kinda superhuman in and of itself so I guess even he qualifies.

My personal vote is tied between Eren Jaeger and Batman. For similar, yet opposing, reasons. For Eren, I just...YOUR RAGE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING! Get some goddamn BRAIN CELLS! When he's a kid and seeing what happens to his mom, yes. I get where the only thing he might be able to muster up is rage/revenge. He's a kid, he's impulsive, and he may not be able to grasp the overwhelming magnitude of the forces against him or the task he's swearing himself to. But to become older, a teenager, and to have had NO perspective on the matter and still come to the same conclusion? Bullshit. It's flat-out stated he has NO talent in his training aside from his level of stubbornness. Okay, it's admirable you have drive that surpasses 99% of people around you. But you have NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR YOU OTHER THAN THAT. No money, no natural aptitude for physical or mental skills that compliment the goal, nothing.

Sometimes, despite how badly people may want something, they are simply unable to achieve it with the tools they have. I feel like that's the lesson we SHOULD have learned from Eren. What happened to him early on should have been permanent and should have shown his cast-mates that there's more to fighting Titans than having the courage and a lack of rational thought. Literally the ONLY reason he's alive at this point I'd imagine is because he has more suits of Plot Armor than Tony Stark has Iron Man suits.

On the flip side, we have the Bat. Now, he's not awful. Really isn't. But I just...I can't get behind him much anymore. Like he's still cool to watch and everything, but if anything he's TOO capable. Answers for EVERYTHING may be his thing, but that means he can't lose, and unlike Superman, you can't inject a personal loss or hurting him in a way that ISN'T physical. For Superman there's a weight to doing that since physically he's invulnerable and outwardly he's perfect and godly, and loss does not seem to happen to him a lot. He doesn't build his entire life on a loss like Batman does. Things like Last Son and All-Star Superman and Red Son and Kingdom Come have weight because in one way or another they reach past Superman's invulnerable perfection and strike something in him that we tend to forget exists because of his physical exploits.

Batman....you can kill a member of the family, but what does that do? Gives him more things to brood on. You can replace Robin, but what does that do? Gives him an excuse to go through the same path of parenting as he's done three times before. To me, nothing has weight for him. Nothing seems to genuinely shake up his world or the character himself. He's prepared for everything, nothing seems to show us sides of his personality that we've never seen, or if they do it's not for long until we're back to him teaching a master's class on Cave Brooding.

All that would even be excusable if it didn't get the fans in such a bloody tizzy. "OMG BATMAN CAN BEAT ANYONE!" Bane crushed his back so badly he had to call in a sub. "BUT HE CAME BACK!" Probably because readers hated Azreal, did you think of that? "BUT HE BEAT SUPERMAN AND HE DOESN'T HAVE POWERS!" It's not difficult when you have Kryptonite and realize that Clark probably hasn't exactly put in the time, effort, and intensive training that Bruce has. When one side probably knows a dozen different martial arts and the other's typical strategy goes along the lines of "punch it, if it's still punching back, punch harder. Also try not to hurt civilians," I'm not gonna be too surprised when the one who's had formal combat training wins.

Both have amazing drive and determination in their endeavors, but one needs to get rid of the Plot Armor and understand that guts alone doesn't cut it in heavy traffic, while the other just feels like there's nothing you can DO with him that has any weight to it anymore. (and his fans drive me nuts.)
Hahaha, that's very true about Bats and Eren. If you really want to get on Batman fan nerves though, be sure to tell them these things. 1) When Batman fought Superman, Supes wasnt trying at all, he proved several times that he could have ended the fight the moment it started. He just didn't want to hurt Bruce. 2)Superman is a trained fighter as well, he's proficent in boxing via Wildcat, Amazonian techniques via Wonderwoman, more fighting skills thanks to Mongol, and Martial arts thanks to Batman. 3) It wasn't canon anyway. That was Frank Miller's alt timeline.

Watch the rage...
 

Joseph Alexander

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SuperScrub said:
Candidus said:
Oh man, too many to mention individually.

1. Protagonists who draw an arbitrary line through acceptable and unacceptable violence in the pursuit of good and/or the punishment of evil-- so let's strike all superheroes off the list of protags I can get behind.

2. Spineless, incompetent brats whose discovery of great power (usually a mecha) allows them to "come of age" and save the world doing it.

3. Characters who're despicably fragile, pacifistic, sensitive, kind etc etc... In JRPG's, this is usually a woman who eventually `develops`- if you can call it that- to be a little more willful and assertive, as though that's anywhere near enough to make them appealing to me. Just give her a scene where she tortures the shit out of a villain's lieutenant or something and she'll get an instant draft even if her stats are bad.

4. Male characters in general... Sorry, this is just... Yeah, I can't get behind a male character. I don't relate to them, I don't aspire to be like them. I don't care what they're going through. I don't care how they feel or what they want. I don't want to inhabit them, assist them or watch them. Get out.

Protags I can get behind:

Metallica - The Witch and the Hundred Knight
Light Yagami - A rare exception to the fourth rule.
Female Bhaalspawn - Baldur's Gate series.
Phantom Assassin - Dota 2 (hey now! each match has its own narrative, and you're always your own protagonist!)
Lucy - Elfen Lied
I also hate White characters because I can't relate to them aspire to be like them, don't care what they're going through. I don't care how they feel or what they want. I don't want to inhabit them, assist them or watch them. Get out.
This is what you sound like.

OT: Um protags I can't get behind. Well Batman from the Arkham Asylum series because is actions don't mirror what I would do in his shoes. Why? Because of the Joker, why is it in every single Arkham game he goes out of his way to save this self-destructive, graveyard filling piece of shit? No seriously, in the first game he doesn't kill him when given the chance by him which would save the life every guard that died in the game and stop the super steroid Titan from hitting the street. Then in Arkham City when he does die, he decides to get all mopey about it rather than throw a party to celebrate and I was like. "DUDE! THE MAN WHO CRIPPLED ONE OF YOUR FRIENDS, KILLED ONE OF YOUR ADOPTIVE SONS IS AND FILLED MORE COFFINS THAN JASON VOORHEES IS DEAD THROUGH NO FAULT OF YOUR OWN! STOP BEING SUCH A MOPEY PIECE OF SHIT AND CELEBRATE!" And then in Arkham Origins when the Joker is about to fall to his dead, he goes out of his way to save him even though there's no reason for him to jump after him as he won't be responsible for his death. But unfortunately seeing as we have to fight the Joker in Asylum and City you know how it goes.
agreed on alomst every point.

first off the person you are quoting could stand to broaden their horizons.

and mainly, Batman is apart of the problem with Gotham.
his actions have led to the situation in Gotham becoming worse, not better.
then you compare Gotham to Metropolis both of which were crime-ridden hellholes and by the time Supes is done metropolis is practically paradise in comparison.
sure it still has Lex Luthor owning half of it and its a freak-magnet, but at least its cops are competent and not corrupt.
but even thats better then having the Joker running around and being ground zero for alot of the worst normal human villains in the DCU.

Batman isn't a hero, hes a vigilante.
and worse hes a failure, creating some of the biggest threats to humanity over the course of his reign.
 

remnant_phoenix

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Kratos after the first God of War.

A lot of people have already pointed this out, but it bears repeating: First game? He's a brutal and subversive anti-hero, but still sympathetic, less evil than the bastard he's going after, and he demonstrates a interesting spin on the arc of classical Greek tragedy. Starting with God of War II? He's just a dick, a petulant child with demigod powers. I can't believe that he was able to maintain such a fan following after God of War II.
 

tzimize

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Tsukuyomi said:
Zhukov said:
Been reading Dune recently.

Gotta say, the main character, Paul, is so bloody capable that I find it damn near impossible to give a shit about him.

He's super-duper smart, highly trained in the ways of basically everything. has perfect observation and perfect memory, can figure out almost anything at a glance, can learn any skill super quickly, can read people so well that he can almost read their minds, can kinda-sorta make people do what he says just by commanding them to. Oh, and of course he's physically adept at pretty much anything he tries his hand at.

Oh, and I almost forgot that he's also The Chosen One As Foretold by Prophesy And Legend. Although I'm pretty sure the author's going to try and pull something cute with that.

But yeah, makes it pretty hard to sympathise or fell any kind of tension. Even when the plot is getting all "Ohhhhh! Treachery! Drama! Danger!" all I can think is, "Eh, whatever, fucking Wunderkind here will have it under control in no time."
I enjoyed Dune very much, though I never thought of Paul like this. It's very true, though. Then again I kinda figured damn near everyone in the main cast was superhuman, with perhaps the exception of Gurney, but then again it's Gurney and he's such a lovable bastard that you can't fault him for it. Plus his memory is kinda superhuman in and of itself so I guess even he qualifies.

My personal vote is tied between Eren Jaeger and Batman. For similar, yet opposing, reasons. For Eren, I just...YOUR RAGE CAN'T FIX EVERYTHING! Get some goddamn BRAIN CELLS! When he's a kid and seeing what happens to his mom, yes. I get where the only thing he might be able to muster up is rage/revenge. He's a kid, he's impulsive, and he may not be able to grasp the overwhelming magnitude of the forces against him or the task he's swearing himself to. But to become older, a teenager, and to have had NO perspective on the matter and still come to the same conclusion? Bullshit. It's flat-out stated he has NO talent in his training aside from his level of stubbornness. Okay, it's admirable you have drive that surpasses 99% of people around you. But you have NOTHING ELSE GOING FOR YOU OTHER THAN THAT. No money, no natural aptitude for physical or mental skills that compliment the goal, nothing.

Sometimes, despite how badly people may want something, they are simply unable to achieve it with the tools they have. I feel like that's the lesson we SHOULD have learned from Eren. What happened to him early on should have been permanent and should have shown his cast-mates that there's more to fighting Titans than having the courage and a lack of rational thought. Literally the ONLY reason he's alive at this point I'd imagine is because he has more suits of Plot Armor than Tony Stark has Iron Man suits.

On the flip side, we have the Bat. Now, he's not awful. Really isn't. But I just...I can't get behind him much anymore. Like he's still cool to watch and everything, but if anything he's TOO capable. Answers for EVERYTHING may be his thing, but that means he can't lose, and unlike Superman, you can't inject a personal loss or hurting him in a way that ISN'T physical. For Superman there's a weight to doing that since physically he's invulnerable and outwardly he's perfect and godly, and loss does not seem to happen to him a lot. He doesn't build his entire life on a loss like Batman does. Things like Last Son and All-Star Superman and Red Son and Kingdom Come have weight because in one way or another they reach past Superman's invulnerable perfection and strike something in him that we tend to forget exists because of his physical exploits.

Batman....you can kill a member of the family, but what does that do? Gives him more things to brood on. You can replace Robin, but what does that do? Gives him an excuse to go through the same path of parenting as he's done three times before. To me, nothing has weight for him. Nothing seems to genuinely shake up his world or the character himself. He's prepared for everything, nothing seems to show us sides of his personality that we've never seen, or if they do it's not for long until we're back to him teaching a master's class on Cave Brooding.

All that would even be excusable if it didn't get the fans in such a bloody tizzy. "OMG BATMAN CAN BEAT ANYONE!" Bane crushed his back so badly he had to call in a sub. "BUT HE CAME BACK!" Probably because readers hated Azreal, did you think of that? "BUT HE BEAT SUPERMAN AND HE DOESN'T HAVE POWERS!" It's not difficult when you have Kryptonite and realize that Clark probably hasn't exactly put in the time, effort, and intensive training that Bruce has. When one side probably knows a dozen different martial arts and the other's typical strategy goes along the lines of "punch it, if it's still punching back, punch harder. Also try not to hurt civilians," I'm not gonna be too surprised when the one who's had formal combat training wins.

Both have amazing drive and determination in their endeavors, but one needs to get rid of the Plot Armor and understand that guts alone doesn't cut it in heavy traffic, while the other just feels like there's nothing you can DO with him that has any weight to it anymore. (and his fans drive me nuts.)
Did you ever read the Hush storyline? One of my most favorite batman stories. There is plenty for batman to lose, and if there isnt, a competent writer can write something in FOR him to lose. In hush he had (as he probably has had before) a relatively short romance with Catwoman. And honestly, I absolutely love it. Catwoman is chaotic neutral, bordering on good and Batman is lawful neutral (in my head). They are opposites, but it is perfect because love isnt logical. Batman has a purpose and his purpose is defeating crime. Catwoman is a criminal, but occasionally she does the right thing. Conflict arise, and stuff gets interesting. Also, it is beautifully drawn. Their kiss prided my desktop for quite a while :3

I couldnt see Superman being conflicted in the same way, because unlike batman, his purpose is for the civilized part of society. He doesnt exist for the criminals, but for the civilians. His purpose is to show humanity what it can be, and as such, he MUST make the right choice. Otherwise he has no purpose. This makes him pretty dull. Is it possible to write good superman stories? Absolutely. You named a lot of them, but it is not easy.

Batman doesnt suffer from the same necessity of doing the right thing. Batman exists to do what is necessary (from his viewpoint) which makes for more possibilities. Especially in terms of personal conflict.

OT: I cant stand Tidus. Everything about him makes me want to kill him. Squall was pretty bad too, but Tidus was the worst.

Also; Sansa Stark. Not sure if you can call her a protagonist, but everything she says, does and thinks makes me want to beat her head in with a piece of wood.
 

pearcinator

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Idiots. People that do dumb things or ask stupid questions. Not 'funny idiots' just plain idiots.

I turned off Fast & Furious Tokyo Drift cos the main guy pissed me off so much cos he was so friggen stupid.
 

Alcarohtare

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Wizardly-K9 said:
Alcarohtare said:
Yuna from FFX
She annoyed the hell out of me. I get that she is meant to represent innocence and stuff but my god! Would it have killed her to be a bit more fiesty? Even later on in the game she comes off as a total wuss (other than the scene in Bevelle) despite the fact she is a summoner and has major power...

Also Tidus because he is a bit whiny (redeems himself a bit tho)
So... Deciding from a young age that you're going to train to sacrifice yourself to train your world isn't a strong character trait? I hated in FFX-2 when the developers thought that making Yuna have an attitude and wear booty shorts made her "fiesty."
I think this is why she annoyed me so much - She made this choice to save everyone through her own suffering but comes across throughout the game (except towards the end) as a child who needs spoonfeeding. She would have been trained for her pilgrimage but just comes across as weak.

Do see your point though, the intial choice definatly does reduce the annoyance factor for me. Also I hated her even more in FFX-2 for the same reason as you. I felt like the developers just put her in sexy clothes just to create a 'strong' female image rather then let the characters/ story speak for itself.
 

lord.jeff

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Alcarohtare said:
I think this is why she annoyed me so much - She made this choice to save everyone through her own suffering but comes across throughout the game (except towards the end) as a child who needs spoonfeeding. She would have been trained for her pilgrimage but just comes across as weak.

Do see your point though, the intial choice definatly does reduce the annoyance factor for me. Also I hated her even more in FFX-2 for the same reason as you. I felt like the developers just put her in sexy clothes just to create a 'strong' female image rather then let the characters/ story speak for itself.
I'm curious myself what Yuna did to make her seem so weak, she enters combat as readily as every other character, stands against the teachings of Yevon with her support of the Al bed and technology plus tries to take on Seymor alone.

phoenixlink said:
Scott Pilgrim.

only have seen the movie but i lost all enjoyment of the movie due to who he was as a character.

Dating a very young girl then cheating on her just cause.

i couldnt support him as a character after that and hence disliked his character
That is sort of the point with Scott he starts the story as the worst kind of loser.



A character I take issue with is Samus I love the games but every story seems to be her trying to cause the extinction of a species namely the Metroid but in Fusion it was X parasites a species that only became a problem because she killed of their natural predator.
 

likalaruku

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The Walking Dead: Rick as of season 2. What a prick. I'd rather have been stuck with Shane.

Sailor Moon: Usagi/Serena is a useless whiney clutz.

Cardcaptor sakura: See above answer, replace with Sakura.

Cheech & Chong: Gross & pervy.

Trigun: I liked Vash in the earlier episodes, but he turned out to be a preachy overly-emotional wuss.

Noblesse: Raizel is one of those characters that just silently observes what everyone else is doing. He has had no real character development. Earlier in the series, he provided some straight-man comic relief, but his main purpose is to be a deus ex machine who saves the day at the last minute after everyone else has already done the exposition & action. Thank gawd it's a series with 2 main protagonists. Frankenstein is far more interesting.

Hunter x Hunter: Gon has never been my center of focus. He's usually very predictable & makes good comic relief, but everyone really reads for Killua.
 

The_Darkness

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James Heller.

Okay, Prototype 2 in general, but Heller especially. Alex, I could get behind - he was literally inhuman, so him not valuing human life that much was something I could cope with (Though I hated his character derailment in 2). James... not so much. This is a guy who clearly cares about other people... but is perfectly happy to down a few of them to get some health back. It just didn't fly with me.
 

hermes

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remnant_phoenix said:
Kratos after the first God of War.

A lot of people have already pointed this out, but it bears repeating: First game? He's a brutal and subversive anti-hero, but still sympathetic, less evil than the bastard he's going after, and he demonstrates a interesting spin on the arc of classical Greek tragedy. Starting with God of War II? He's just a dick, a petulant child with demigod powers. I can't believe that he was able to maintain such a fan following after God of War II.
Probably because, for all the prickery he did, he addressed it mostly to Olympians and their armies. There was the occasional civilian casualty just to show that he didn't care much, but they were few people that worked in the remote demons island, anyways.

The turning point for me was 3, where he started killing Olympians left and right, and the game didn't skimp away from the consequences of his actions (killing Poseidon creates a massive flood that kills millions, killing Hades releases the undead into the world which kills millions, killing Hermes releases a plague that kills millions, etc). However, after these obvious acts of dickery and complete disregard for collateral, the game still insist on calling him the "avatar of Hope for mankind" and his quest a righteous one, under the basis that the Olympians are actually worst (which they are not)...
 

Karadalis

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Anakin Skywalker... his entire reasoning or lack thereof is just.. mind baffling.

So he becomes a Sith to save his wife.. wich in the next scene he proceeds to almost murder her himselfe.

Seriously? She was the entire reason he betrayed the Jedis... his only reason to go on with life so to speak...

But no... hes has to be stupidly "evil" now... fuck character progression.. we will make him a psychopatic child murderer now... for reasons... reasons that he almost kills himselfe next scene.

WTF dude? Why did you become a sith in the first place if not for her? You said it yourselfe.. you needed Sidious because he could help you keep your wife alive... and you almost force choke her to death?

The character was overall very poorly written and is actually much more relatable in the clone wars animations then in the bloody movies where hes just a whiny ungratefull ***** with a baby face... thank god palpatine slapped a mask on his face that actually covered it or i would have never been able to take darth vader serious.
 

Thurston

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I wanted to like Tron: Legacy, but the lead didn't strike me as cool outsider hero, more like rich spoiled brat.
 

NeutralDrow

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That's kind of a hard question for me to answer. If I can't get behind a protagonist initially, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt long enough for them to grow on me...and if they don't, I tend to just repress and forget them.

...actually, I haven't totally repressed a recent example, Sorata from the Pet Girl of Sakurasou anime. Mostly because he, like apparently everyone in the series, seems to consider the "emotionless girl" female protagonist Mashiro as merely quirky, when she acts legitimately autistic.

And I guess I'll never quite forget Ohji from the game Little My Maid. It's really weird that in the default ending to that game he manages to be harmless...and in most of the special endings, the stuff he does to the love interests make me want to put his head through a glass window.

Raven_Operative said:
Shiro from Fate/Stay night. That guy was so... so stupid, he single handedly made me abandon the series after episode 7. Its a shame too, because I love everything Type-moon related. Fuck, I can't stand him in the slightest.
Honestly, I hate the anime for doing that to him. Sure, there's plenty of people who dislike him even in the visual novel (though granted, I'm not one of them), but at least there, where you can see what's going through his head, it's made perfectly clear that he's not stupid...just insane. The Fate route that the anime's adapted from happens to start when his survivor's guilt, martyr complex, near-total lack of self-worth, knowledge of just how unqualified he is as a Master, and especially his attraction to Saber and subsequent trauma over seeing her nearly killed by Berserker, manage to form a PTSD supercell storm of irrationality. He gets better (and starts better in the other routes).

Not trying to get you back into the Studio Deen anime, though. You're well shot of that. You'd be better off waiting for the upcoming UFOtable adaptations (considering what they did with Kara no Kyoukai and Fate/Zero).