PS3 Hackers Respond to Sony's Litigious Accusations

[Tom Goldman]

PS3 Hackers Respond to Sony's Litigious Accusations

The recently sued programming whizzes of the PS3 hacking scene have made their responses to Sony's lawsuit.

PlayStation 3 hackers have made some fairly lawsuit [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/106609-Notorious-iPhone-Hacker-Posts-PS3-Master-Key-Online]. According to the responses by the group known as fail0verflow and George "GeoHot" Hotz, Sony doesn't have a leg to stand on.

GeoHot and fail0verflow both point out in their responses that they don't condone piracy or copyright infringement. Hotz told the BBC that he is a "firm believer in digital rights," while pointing out he's always had a message on his website saying he doesn't condone piracy. "I would expect a company that prides itself on intellectual property to be well versed in the provisions of the law, so I am disappointed in Sony's current action," Hotz added.

Hotz also says he's "comfortable" that Sony won't be victorious in the lawsuit, and his lawyer feels the same way. Hotz's attorney believes that Sony isn't attempting to protect its intellectual property, but trying to send a message that "attempting to use any hardware it manufacturers in a way it does not deem appropriate will result in harsh legal consequences, irrespective of any legal basis or authority for such action." In a court filing, he also questioned the lawsuit's west coast proceedings when Hotz lives in New Jersey, Sony's allegation that Hotz was bound by the PlayStation Network's terms of service when Hotz put in writing that he never signed up, and denied that Hotz ever profited from his actions despite Sony's claims to the contrary.

Fail0verflow evidently responded by reiterating what the group has made clear in the past. "Our exclusive goal was, is, and always has been to get OtherOS back," the group said, referring to a function of the PS3 that allowed separate operating systems to be installed, which was removed [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99499-Sony-Removes-Other-OS-Option-for-PS3] last May. Fail0verflow's members also emphasized that they have "never condoned, supported, approved of or encouraged videogame piracy."

The most similar case to this appears to be when Apple went up against hackers freeing the iPhone from its bonds, or "jailbreaking" it, which was declared legal [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/102390-US-Government-Declares-iPhone-Jailbreaking-Legal]. If Sony's case against the hackers goes all the way, it may face a similar judgment.

Source: BBC [http://www.gamespot.com/news/6286331.html]



Permalink

 

[The Artificially Prolonged]

Would love to get the OtherOS function back, howver I'm sick of all this legal back and forth between the two parties

 

[Something Amyss]

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

 

[SurfKansas]

Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy.

Being a poorly written piece of legislation, it is difficult to say if anything clearly violates the DMCA.

It was argued a few years back that Jailbreaking iPhones clearly violated the DMCA. Well, the courts disagreed. And now, Jailbreaking is explicitly legal for phones.

 

[DTWolfwood]

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

with you on that one.

they are hacking into the console to do what exactly? What have these hackers used the hacked PS3 for other than to play pirated games? or sell the hack to the average joe so they can play pirated game? (someone please tell me if they have used it for "good")

If its just to say they can because Sony said they can't well then I hope they lose big time.

 

[razer17]

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

On the other hand, they clearly don't. Jailbreaking the iPhone has been declared legal, this is pretty similar. Precedents have been set, and Sony will be lucky if they can distinguish the two.

 

[razer17]

[

they are hacking into the console to do what exactly? What have these hackers used the hacked PS3 for other than to play pirated games? or sell the hack to the average joe so they can play pirated game? (someone please tell me if they have used it for "good")

If its just to say they can because Sony said they can't well then I hope they lose big time.

Considering the fact that this hack hasn't yet been used to play a pirated game, because they deliberately didn't include that, you're wrong. and as pointed out in the article, and by me when the news of Sony suing them first came out, this case seems pretty similar to the iphone case a few months back, and as such Sony is looking like they could very well lose.

 

[DTWolfwood]

[

they are hacking into the console to do what exactly? What have these hackers used the hacked PS3 for other than to play pirated games? or sell the hack to the average joe so they can play pirated game? (someone please tell me if they have used it for "good")

If its just to say they can because Sony said they can't well then I hope they lose big time.

Considering the fact that this hack hasn't yet been used to play a pirated game, because they deliberately didn't include that, you're wrong. and as pointed out in the article, and by me when the news of Sony suing them first came out, this case seems pretty similar to the iphone case a few months back, and as such Sony is looking like they could very well lose.

So whats the hack for? please explain.

 

[Turtleboy1017]

[

they are hacking into the console to do what exactly? What have these hackers used the hacked PS3 for other than to play pirated games? or sell the hack to the average joe so they can play pirated game? (someone please tell me if they have used it for "good")

If its just to say they can because Sony said they can't well then I hope they lose big time.

Considering the fact that this hack hasn't yet been used to play a pirated game, because they deliberately didn't include that, you're wrong. and as pointed out in the article, and by me when the news of Sony suing them first came out, this case seems pretty similar to the iphone case a few months back, and as such Sony is looking like they could very well lose.

So whats the hack for? please explain.

Loading separate OS's. They just said that. The OS that comes with the PS3 is a limited little thing, only capable of utilizing PS3 hardware, which is quite powerful, for essentially games, and movies, only one of which utilize the processor speed at all.

For example, remember that story about the Air Force using PS3's for computing purposes? They need a separate OS capable of handling the hardware in such a manor. These hackers are just trying to get their own OS's on so they can fully utilize the hardware for home brew, overclocking, optimization, whatever. Yes, pirated games could possibly be played utilizing this OS, but they have stated that they are not advocates of it and may not include the function to do so at all.

 

[stabnex]

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

Oh shit, you might be right. Quick, I better go get Chrystler made parts to replace the cheaper, more readily available parts I had to replace in my 1989 vehicle or they might sue my ass for illegally modding my car!

 

[Something Amyss]

Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy.

Being a poorly written piece of legislation, it is difficult to say if anything clearly violates the DMCA.

It was argued a few years back that Jailbreaking iPhones clearly violated the DMCA. Well, the courts disagreed. And now, Jailbreaking is explicitly legal for phones.

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

On the other hand, they clearly don't. Jailbreaking the iPhone has been declared legal, this is pretty similar. Precedents have been set, and Sony will be lucky if they can distinguish the two.

On the other hand, we're not talking jailbreaking.

Wow, that argument went down fast.

 

[Something Amyss]

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

Oh shit, you might be right. Quick, I better go get Chrystler made parts to replace the cheaper, more readily available parts I had to replace in my 1989 vehicle or they might sue my ass for illegally modding my car!

Mmmm...Smells like a straw man to me.

Make sure to hit it again, I'm not sure you knocked the whole thing down.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I hope Sony loses, there's no good reason for them to suppress these guys.

 

[SurfKansas]

Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy.

Being a poorly written piece of legislation, it is difficult to say if anything clearly violates the DMCA.

It was argued a few years back that Jailbreaking iPhones clearly violated the DMCA. Well, the courts disagreed. And now, Jailbreaking is explicitly legal for phones.

Sony does have a leg to stand on. Among other things, they clearly violated the DMCA, regardless of whether they condone piracy. You'd think these people would have some understanding of the law if they were going to much around in lawsuit territory.

On the other hand, they clearly don't. Jailbreaking the iPhone has been declared legal, this is pretty similar. Precedents have been set, and Sony will be lucky if they can distinguish the two.

On the other hand, we're not talking jailbreaking.

Wow, that argument went down fast.

Actually, we are exactly talking Jailbreaking.

Jailbreaking iPhone = hacking protections put in place that prevented other software from being installed on the iPhone.

Hacking PS3 = hacking protections put in place that prevented other software from being installed on the PS3.

The hack in question, if you have actually taken the time to read any of the original article, is 100% about getting Linux back on the PS3. This hack has not been used to play pirated games.

 

[razer17]

[

they are hacking into the console to do what exactly? What have these hackers used the hacked PS3 for other than to play pirated games? or sell the hack to the average joe so they can play pirated game? (someone please tell me if they have used it for "good")

If its just to say they can because Sony said they can't well then I hope they lose big time.

Considering the fact that this hack hasn't yet been used to play a pirated game, because they deliberately didn't include that, you're wrong. and as pointed out in the article, and by me when the news of Sony suing them first came out, this case seems pretty similar to the iphone case a few months back, and as such Sony is looking like they could very well lose.

So whats the hack for? please explain.

The hack is for homebrew. In fact, the hack itself is unusable. Unless you know how to code you couldn't use it. So far only one person has released a usable version of the hack, and that hack has been deliberately coded in a way that means you can use it for homebrew, but not piracy.

 

[Danpascooch]

This will hopefully teach Sony that they can't REMOVE FUNCTIONS from hardware they have already sold.

I made a whole huge thread about this, I knew they would pay for it someday, it didn't come a day too soon.

And it sounds like Sony's legal team just got owned, If only someone would stand up to Nintendo's legal team, posting pictures of Pokemon to comment on them is not fair use? Fuck you Nintendo.

 

[Something Amyss]

The hack in question, if you have actually taken the time to read any of the original article, is 100% about getting Linux back on the PS3. This hack has not been used to play pirated games.

The claim of the intent, which is largely different, you mean. Sorry, I read the original article. Attempting to rationalise it doesn't make it so.

Failoverflow has done more than JUST that. Sorry.

 

[DTWolfwood]

So whats the hack for? please explain.

The hack is for homebrew. In fact, the hack itself is unusable. Unless you know how to code you couldn't use it. So far only one person has released a usable version of the hack, and that hack has been deliberately coded in a way that means you can use it for homebrew, but not piracy.

well fantastic, less they sell these codes for a profit. Namely the whole usb stick jailbreaking fiasco probably left an exceptionally bad taste in Sony's mouth.

Still confounded by why they feel the need to distribute said source code. It all just seems like ego stroking to me.

The Kinect was hacked to hell the week it came out (from my perspective all done separately by individuals) but with each hack something was shown for it. Have yet to see what good this particular situation has done for the hardware in general.

Hey if tomorrow a headline reads "Man builds backyard Supercomputer using Hacked PS3s" i'd be thrilled. As of now, im not convinced their efforts are noble.

 

[Steve Fidler]

All they have done is provide the Key used by the PS3 to identify software as legitimate. All games, applications, and etc. on the Playstation Network are loaded with this key, and anything else isn't. Until now. They have used the Key to load an alternate OS, Linux based, to make it easier to run additional homebrew software and optimize the performance of the PS3. While this does lead to the possibility of piracy, that is not the intent of the hackers.

Sharpening a pencil with the intent of drawing thinner, clearer lines does not necessarily lead to stabbing someone; Yet it is a possibility.