PSA: Ubisoft is Revoking Far Cry 4 CD-Keys From 3rd Party Re-sellers - Update 2

Dogstile

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albino boo said:
Kahani said:
albino boo said:
Its the same law applies, there is no difference
No it isn't, and simply repeating the same bullshit over and over again won't magically make it right. Theft is the crime that is committed when you steal physical goods. Breach of copyright is the civil offence committed when you distribute digital goods you don't have the right to. And particularly note that I've used the words "upload" and "distribute", because no-one has ever been prosecuted for downloading music, films, or games. Whine about it all you like, you can't support your nonsense with an actual law that treats digital downloads the same as theft of physical goods because there simply isn't one.

You are perfectly entitled to write as many words as you like but you will still be wrong.
Irony, thy name is idiots on the internet.
There is your version of reality and the laws version reality guess which one wins. Hint not yours
Hahaha, it is literally not illegal to download, when news sites report that people have been fined for "downloading" its actually because they were using a torrent and most torrents seed while they download.

This is common knowledge, not some massive secret.
 
Dec 16, 2009
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Adam Jensen said:
Another week, another way for Ubisoft to alienate customers. Good luck selling future games to people affected by this. Fuckin' morons.
I bought FC3 Deluxe in a Steam sale for £5. worth every penny, as optimised as its going to get. 20+ hours of fun. now completed, uninstalled and forgotten. Thats the sort of Ubi customer they've made of me now.
 

Eiv

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mad825 said:
Mr Ink 5000 said:
Way to go Ubi, screwing over customers again. it's almost like they thrive on bad PR.
It would seem like EA fired Uwe Boll and Ubi took him on. For every bad things happen, he gets bigger and stronger

OT: Seeing as there's no legal case over this matter, it seems to be a simple matter of Ubi trying to suppress and starve out cheaper third-party re-sellers so that Ubi can gain more profit.

If the serial keys was as bad as people trying to make it out to be then the authorities would be involved but it's a simple case of company policy.
That's my take on it. Scare people into feeling the only 'safe' option is Uplay. The thing is, it will probably work due to people having amazingly low impulse control. Boycott is the only thing that would work and we don't have the willpower as a community to enforce it.
 

direkiller

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EvolutionKills said:
J Tyran said:
War_Dyn27 said:
If you bought a stolen care with out knowing, would you expect to keep it if it was revealed as stolen?
This pretty much sums it up, stolen and fraudulently obtained items are always returned to the original and legal owner and innocent people that buy the items believing them to be legitimate are left out of pocket after they are seized.

You can consider the people that bought the items as victims of the crime as much as the person/entity the items were stolen from, it sucks for them but thats the way the law works. Ubisoft are well within their rights to do this and despite how dickish they are I wouldn't personally consider this as another black mark for them, they could have approached it in a better way though.

Let the people keep the games just this once and run a campaign informing people about shady third parties, have popups on Uplay and send emails, tweets and blogs etc. Let the customers know that they will leave the keys active this time as a show of good faith but spread the word that there will be a zero tolerance policy in the future, as well as the campaign they could provide any support the legitimate third parties need and help direct customers towards them at the same time as informing customers about the dodgy ones.

Easy as that, they earn some good will from the customers and hopefully reduce the problems with dodgy keys somewhat as they educate and redirect customers away from them.

^This

Because what is right, what is best, what is legal, and what is justified, are not always one in the same thing.

Ubisoft is within their rights here. Is flexing those rights in this way going to be the best thing they can do? First off, we'd need to define 'best'. What is Ubisoft's goal here? Revoking the keys cost them nothing, but likewise, losing digital keys also cost them nothing. It's the old anti-piracy argument again. Those keys grant access to a digital copy, and digital information can be copied and disseminated without losing the original. Those keys, even if gained through fraud and resold by a third party, didn't result in physical property being stolen from Ubisoft; they can generate new keys for their own games at no additional cost to themselves, they have near limitless supply if they so desire. Ubisoft can see it as 'lost sales' and yank the keys, which is within their rights, but would also be be very anti-consumer. Because the consumers are the ones who will have actually lost money here, unless they can also get their money back for their purchase.
I think there goal is to try and get people to buy the game from legitimate sources. The less demand there is for re-sell keys the less of a target they are for CC fraud(which dose cost them money).

As you said it cost them basically nothing(even the PR backlash is minor), and long term it could alleviate some costs and turn people off stolen keys if they make this a standard policy.
 

gamegod25

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Unfortunately this is a problem even for legit purchased games. At any time down the line these companies can revoke keys, shut down servers, etc. rendering a game you paid for unplayable. Sure they might release a patch so it can be played offline but there is no guarantee.
 

truckspond

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And this is why I always check the reseller out via google before buying from them and if I see anything off then I don't buy from them. Better to make sure that they are approved resellers than to have your game gone along with the money you paid for it.
 
Sep 14, 2009
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oh, well too bad for you then ubisoft, looks like you won't see a single cent from me again. Really hope this PR move uppercuts you straight in the face.

Allah forbid I ever want a ubisoft game again...you bet your sweet ass kinguin will be my first stop, specifically in spite.
 

EvolutionKills

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gigastar said:
EvolutionKills said:
However Ubisoft does have other options here.

From another perspective, even those with illegitimate keys are potential consumers for FarCry DLC; but if you remove their investment (the game), you've removed them as a potential DLC customer. What would the margins be on someone with a fraudulent key who goes on to buy legitimate DLC ($10 a piece, $30 for a season pass) versus someone buying the game on a STEAM sale a year from now for $5?

There are things Ubisoft can do without pissing off consumers, but Ubisoft being Ubisoft, slim chance of that happening.
Theese are people who apparently have been buying thier games at less than half the Steam price. Do you honestly think they would spring for the DLC as well?
Is it possible? Sure. Maybe they were unsure about how well it would run on their PC, maybe they were new to the series, maybe they had been burned by shitty Ubisoft ports in the past. But once they did start playing it, is it possible for them to get hooked enough to want to get the DLC? Stranger things have happened.

Now let's take the opposite of that. If you take the game away from them, even if they were hooked, how many of them are going to shell out money again to the same publisher who just yanked the rug out from under them?
 

Scorpid

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OH Ubisoft is acting like a idiot and screwing over consumer rights!? Alright you can go on my do not buy list too, congrats. It'll be even easier to resist because you are somehow even less interesting in the games you put out then even EA is. AC hasn't been interesting since two which is coincidentally the last time you delivered on the Assassin part of the game. Now your just a roving murder hobo with a easily led cult. And Farcry is resistible since I can just watch all the villain scenes on YouTube and not bother playing the filler part of the game (aka the rest of the game).

Come find me when you do a really cool Space Opera or a AC game set in Revolutionary France that isn't the antithesis of fun and assassination.
 

EvolutionKills

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direkiller said:
EvolutionKills said:
^This

Because what is right, what is best, what is legal, and what is justified, are not always one in the same thing.

Ubisoft is within their rights here. Is flexing those rights in this way going to be the best thing they can do? First off, we'd need to define 'best'. What is Ubisoft's goal here? Revoking the keys cost them nothing, but likewise, losing digital keys also cost them nothing. It's the old anti-piracy argument again. Those keys grant access to a digital copy, and digital information can be copied and disseminated without losing the original. Those keys, even if gained through fraud and resold by a third party, didn't result in physical property being stolen from Ubisoft; they can generate new keys for their own games at no additional cost to themselves, they have near limitless supply if they so desire. Ubisoft can see it as 'lost sales' and yank the keys, which is within their rights, but would also be be very anti-consumer. Because the consumers are the ones who will have actually lost money here, unless they can also get their money back for their purchase.
I think there goal is to try and get people to buy the game from legitimate sources. The less demand there is for re-sell keys the less of a target they are for CC fraud(which dose cost them money).

As you said it cost them basically nothing(even the PR backlash is minor), and long term it could alleviate some costs and turn people off stolen keys if they make this a standard policy.
Okay, so where is the information campaign? How are they creating awareness in a way that is not both punitive and anti-consumer?

Lets look at all of the players involved here.

Fraudsters - These are the people who committed the alleged credit card fraud that allowed them to walk away reams of Steam keys, and who subsequently sold these keys to re-sellers, netting them a illegitimate profit. If this actually happened, they are in the wrong.

Re-sellers - Provide a service, they are middle-men. How much knowledge they may or may not have is debatable, but they appear to be grey market at the very least.

Ubisoft - Who was supposedly defrauded out of Steam keys without compensation. While there are bank and operating costs associated with the fraud, however you cannot equate the theft of digital information to physical goods. Ubisoft recoups zero finical compensation by revoking or invalidating the Steam keys involved in the fraud.

Consumers - Those who spent their money on a product, and they're now out of a product. Of all the players involved here, they're the ones that actually lost money. Between the ones who committed fraud, the re-sellers, and one of the largest games publishers on the planet; and it's the consumers that are left holding the empty bucket?

Ubisoft either cannot or will not strike back at those who committed the fraud, so instead they victimize the consumers. They've already lost the keys out in the wild, the fraud had already been committed, and revoking the keys does nothing to get them money. It actually reduces the pool of potential DLC buyers (people don't buy DLC for games they don't own), and is just another source of negative PR. Ubisoft doesn't need to revoke the keys, Ubisoft could pursue action against the fraud without also pulling the rug out from under the consumers. They are just passing the buck of their misfortune and offloading it onto the consumer instead, and the worst part is, it's entirely unnecessary.

This is just Ubisoft being Ubisoft; short-sighted and anti-consumer.
 

jayzz911

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truckspond said:
And this is why I always check the reseller out via google before buying from them and if I see anything off then I don't buy from them. Better to make sure that they are approved resellers than to have your game gone along with the money you paid for it.
yeah gotta google for that "Ubi might screw you later even though you legally bought the key that was legally purchased somewhere else" logo.

People are assuming that the key shops did something illegal here, and that they are not helping their customers. You would be wrong on both counts. These are not credit card fraud keys, stolen keys, armed robbery at gunpoint keys or anything you wanna think up. These are keys bought in a different region and sold for a marginal profit online. You know like anything else. Buy low sell high is basic business. Problem is we are in a market where publishers can take your key and just have it deleted if they want to. Imagine if i bought a book in poland, sold it on ebay for slightly under what it would normally cost here and Penguin publishing would come to your house and burned your book because it was aquired through "illegal" (which isn't illegal to the law, just probably in violation of some part of their EULA) means.
Every single one of us would go, hey that's BS but no can't have that for games.


direkiller said:
I think there goal is to try and get people to buy the game from legitimate sources. The less demand there is for re-sell keys the less of a target they are for CC fraud(which dose cost them money).

As you said it cost them basically nothing(even the PR backlash is minor), and long term it could alleviate some costs and turn people off stolen keys if they make this a standard policy.
This has nothing to do with stolen keys, just with ubisoft wanting more pre-order money from PC gamers before they figure out that the game is garbage again and stop buying them. Have been buying from these sites for years. Never had a key retracted because of cc fraud. The few people that have generally get new codes from the retailer if you use one thats trustworthy. (meaning they still got their money >.>) They just want more of your money without doing any more work. Simple stuff.

I won't be surprised when ubisoft makes the jump to Uplay only like EA did with origin, just so they won't have to deal with steam sales and giving 30% to valve anymore.
The only thing they are doing now is alienating more customers and making people who legally bought your games for a lower price (like myself) just pirate your games for free. But hey atleast they can call everyone pirates again when their next game has a higher piracy rate because of this. Hope they bleed money for a while and realise this was a stupid decision but i doubt it. Enough people are too scared of third party resellers in the first place.

TLDR: wasnt credit card fraud, they just want more of your money.
 

Creedsareevil

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Oh look the publisher i do not buy from is once again providing reasons why not to buy his shit, aside from the shit he sells being generic copys of earlier shit he sold.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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EA has confirmed that the (now) deactivated keys were purchased through Origin with stolen credit cards.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/01/27/ubisoft-says-deactivated-far-cry-keys-purchased-with-stolen-credit-card.aspx
 

truckspond

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jayzz911 said:
gigastar said:
EA has confirmed that the (now) deactivated keys were purchased though Origin with stolen credit cards.

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2015/01/27/ubisoft-says-deactivated-far-cry-keys-purchased-with-stolen-credit-card.aspx
You were saying?
 

Doom972

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Dec 25, 2008
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Xman490 said:
I don't blame Ubisoft. Those CD-keys were fraudulently obtained, so someone other than them is at fault. This approach might be appropriate, as customers of these fraudulent re-sellers might not be "good faith purchasers". After all, who goes to such underground sites while unaware of the stealing they commit?
What sites like these do is buy boxed game copies in bulk just like any retail store, but instead of selling those boxes in a store they sell you the serial numbers needed to register them on Steam/Origin/etc. So no fraud - Ubisoft got paid for these copies already.
 

gigastar

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Sep 13, 2010
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Doom972 said:
Xman490 said:
I don't blame Ubisoft. Those CD-keys were fraudulently obtained, so someone other than them is at fault. This approach might be appropriate, as customers of these fraudulent re-sellers might not be "good faith purchasers". After all, who goes to such underground sites while unaware of the stealing they commit?
What sites like these do is buy boxed game copies in bulk just like any retail store, but instead of selling those boxes in a store they sell you the serial numbers needed to register them on Steam/Origin/etc. So no fraud - Ubisoft got paid for these copies already.
The more practical (and common) approach would have been to buy digitally in regions where its cheaper and resell in an area where you can undercut the service you bought them from.

In any case, that was not what happened here. See post #75.
 

Doom972

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gigastar said:
Doom972 said:
Xman490 said:
I don't blame Ubisoft. Those CD-keys were fraudulently obtained, so someone other than them is at fault. This approach might be appropriate, as customers of these fraudulent re-sellers might not be "good faith purchasers". After all, who goes to such underground sites while unaware of the stealing they commit?
What sites like these do is buy boxed game copies in bulk just like any retail store, but instead of selling those boxes in a store they sell you the serial numbers needed to register them on Steam/Origin/etc. So no fraud - Ubisoft got paid for these copies already.
The more practical (and common) approach would have been to buy digitally in regions where its cheaper and resell in an area where you can undercut the service you bought them from.

In any case, that was not what happened here. See post #75.
I'm not discussing what's practical - I'm just saying it's not fraud. Also, in some cases this is the only way one could get a game in certain regions.

EDIT: As for post #75: These copies were bought with stolen credit cards. That's a different case. Nevermind then.
 

Albino Boo

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Dogstile said:
Hahaha, it is literally not illegal to download, when news sites report that people have been fined for "downloading" its actually because they were using a torrent and most torrents seed while they download.

This is common knowledge, not some massive secret.

Err no one is talking about downloading anything. I was talking about the cost running servers.
 

Snotnarok

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Now it just seems like Ubisoft is going out of their way to punish customers.

It's not like this is uncommon buying from 3rd party sellers, how are customers supposed to know who is and isn't legit? Somehow I bet it's not always easy to tell. If anything they should fine the ones selling the keys, why the customers? This isn't the customers problem, but now it is because they have to contact the seller because ubisoft decided that they'd rather kick the door in and wash their hands of responsibility.

But that's fine, they can keep their shitty games, they just keep stacking reasons on why not to buy their crap. Crappy DRM, unfinished games, offensive marketing schemes, lying, punishing customers, always online DRM (The Crew).