Q Anon Dad Believes Own Son is a crisis actor

BrawlMan

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Glad to hear someone took up the mantle lol. It's funny, I am not surprised he would go that route.
BTW, how do you quote multple people again?
Just go to each user you want to respond to an either hit reply, or highlight a certain segment or paragraph, and then a little text box comes up to say click reply.
 
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Dalisclock

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So he wasn't even willing to stand by his shit? That makes him an even bigger piece of garbage then.
I mean, that effectively makes him a giant troll.

Which is a kind of the reason he got banned IIRC.
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I mean, that effectively makes him a giant troll.

Which is a kind of the reason he got banned IIRC.
I have no objection at all to people arguing what they don't believe in as an intellectual exercise, but if they're a prick about it, yes that's indistinguishable from trolling.

After all, let's remember Socrates was put to death for a reason, and it wasn't just for arguing with people.
 
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Gordon_4

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I have no objection at all to people arguing what they don't believe in as an intellectual exercise, but if they're a prick about it, yes that's indistinguishable from trolling.

After all, let's remember Socrates was put to death for a reason, and it wasn't just for arguing with people.
It was blasphemy as well or something wasn't it?
 

CM156

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It was blasphemy as well or something wasn't it?
Denying the Athenian gods as well as "corrupting the youth."
Also if during the sentencing phase of the trial he had offered to pay a fine and go into exile, there's a good chance that would have been allowed as opposed to getting a hemlock smoothie.
 
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Dalisclock

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Denying the Athenian gods as well as "corrupting the youth."
Also if during the sentencing phase of the trial he had offered to pay a fine and go into exile, there's a good chance that would have been allowed as opposed to getting a hemlock smoothie.
I thought they did offer him that option, or maybe he could have just asked and it would have been granted. I don't recall off the top of my head. Either way he was like "Nope, do your worst".

I'll give him credit for standing by his beliefs even to the point he knew he would die for them, even to the point he didn't attempt to flee or plea bargain(I guess that's what paying the fine/exile would have been, as I don't know the Ancient Greek Legal System that well).
 

CM156

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I thought they did offer him that option, or maybe he could have just asked and it would have been granted. I don't recall off the top of my head. Either way he was like "Nope, do your worst".

I'll give him credit for standing by his beliefs even to the point he knew he would die for them, even to the point he didn't attempt to flee or plea bargain(I guess that's what paying the fine/exile would have been, as I don't know the Ancient Greek Legal System that well).
Under Athenian law, after guilt was determined by a simple majority vote of the jury, both the accused and the accuser proposed a possible punishment.
Our friend, Socrates, proposed that he be given what was basically a pension and free dining at state expense for life. When his friends pleaded with him, he said "Alright, what about a fine?"
According to one of the accounts we have, the jury semi-narrowly voted to convict Socrates, but overwhelmingly voted to kill him.
 
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Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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It was blasphemy as well or something wasn't it?
Denying the Athenian gods as well as "corrupting the youth."
Also if during the sentencing phase of the trial he had offered to pay a fine and go into exile, there's a good chance that would have been allowed as opposed to getting a hemlock smoothie.
Yes, corrupting youth and impiety were the headline accusations. But really, it comes down to the fact that he pissed a lot of people off. You only just need to read some of the dialogues by Plato to see what a massive pain in the arse he was, and it's not hard to imagine that in some he is deliberately screwing with his opponent and making them look a fool. Likewise Aristophanes's The Clouds suggests he had a well-known reputation as a troublemaker.

And yes, to be fair, he got himself executed. It was standard practice in Athenian law for prosecutors to demand a ridiculously severe sentence that would be bargained down in the trial. My take is that Socrates defends himself from conviction seriously, but after the guilty verdict rolls in and the sentencing is being debated, rips up a storm by effectively mocking the trial system, jurors, and trivialising any lesser punishment they may consider. I've heard someone argue this was a gambit to shame them into letting him off - if so, it backfired horribly. Credit to him though: took a lot of balls whether he chose death or just risked it.
 

CM156

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Yes, corrupting youth and impiety were the headline accusations. But really, it comes down to the fact that he pissed a lot of people off. You only just need to read some of the dialogues by Plato to see what a massive pain in the arse he was, and it's not hard to imagine that in some he is deliberately screwing with his opponent and making them look a fool. Likewise Aristophanes's The Clouds suggests he had a well-known reputation as a troublemaker.

And yes, to be fair, he got himself executed. It was standard practice in Athenian law for prosecutors to demand a ridiculously severe sentence that would be bargained down in the trial. My take is that Socrates defends himself from conviction seriously, but after the guilty verdict rolls in and the sentencing is being debated, rips up a storm by effectively mocking the trial system, jurors, and trivialising any lesser punishment they may consider. I've heard someone argue this was a gambit to shame them into letting him off - if so, it backfired horribly. Credit to him though: took a lot of balls whether he chose death or just risked it.
Honest question: other than The Clouds, do we have any surviving contemporary source about Socrates from a negative angle? It's possible, of course, that Plato is correct in his portrayal. It's also possible that Socrates was "that guy" at the debate club who wants to argue every point you make without committing to believing anything himself.
 

Agema

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Honest question: other than The Clouds, do we have any surviving contemporary source about Socrates from a negative angle? It's possible, of course, that Plato is correct in his portrayal. It's also possible that Socrates was "that guy" at the debate club who wants to argue every point you make without committing to believing anything himself.
I don't think Aristophanes is necessarily out to make Socrates look bad in a sense. Sophists were clearly a target meriting satire, and Socrates's reputation would have made him an easy representative of them. I suspect there's little record from people who disliked Socrates because I suspect that as annoying as he may have been, in a way he wasn't deemed that important by them to write about: not quite in their field enough to care much about. It's perhaps like a politician or historian complaining about a political cartoonist. They're more interested in who made the decision to invade Ruritania.

I've heard an argument Plato wants to subtly make Socrates look bad (so that he looks better: the pupil has become the master). But mostly, I suspect Socrates was like that.
 

XsjadoBlayde

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Mixed feelings. There's a concerning tendency for wealth and religion to mask serious mental health issues, which qanon latches onto and of course gains easier entry to communal beliefs this way. The great enablers. Merely focusing on just an individual's mental health serves to diminish the influence and responsibilities of the far more psychosociologically powerful factors involved and limits the potential for reducing further harm in the future. But it is an expected formality in such cases regardless, so am most likely waffling anxious blanks.
 

BrawlMan

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Mixed feelings. There's a concerning tendency for wealth and religion to mask serious mental health issues, which qanon latches onto and of course gains easier entry to communal beliefs this way. The great enablers. Merely focusing on just an individual's mental health serves to diminish the influence and responsibilities of the far more psychosociologically powerful factors involved and limits the potential for reducing further harm in the future. But it is an expected formality in such cases regardless, so am most likely waffling anxious blanks.
The Feds better not make this a special case for every Qanon bastard that decides to go kill their kin, family, kids, or other people. They may have problems, but most of them are aware of what they're doing, they just don't give a fuck.