Question of the Day, May 5, 2010

Tharwen

Ep. VI: Return of the turret
May 7, 2009
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'Science fiction' isn't really used to mean stories with a scientific basis. It simply means stories in a futuristic, usually space-y setting. It might as well be called fantasy, but since there is a strong link between fantasy and Middle Earth (and associated realms), this isn't allowed to happen for some reason.
 

Zydrate

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Apr 1, 2009
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I voted the second option but I'm a bit for both.

Like MovieBob said on "Avatar", a lot of the machines look like they were planned, crafted, and built. I think movie-makers need to actually think how our world would make a space-flyer-thing.

But on second option, it IS fiction. Might as well have fun with it.
 

JakobBloch

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Apr 7, 2008
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To me the only real difference between sci-fi and fantasy is setting. Fantasy is set in a bygone era (often set in a world looking back at a lost greater age that is now gone) while science fiction is set in some near of distant future. What is shared between them is, a physical and understandable world but with something that pushes the limits of physical reality. In fantasy this device is magic while in sci-fi it is science and technology.

Someone quoted Arthur C. Clark earlier and that quote kinda says it all (Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic). I am a great fan of Dan Simmons Hyperion Cantos so I will use that as a perfect illustration of this. In the Hyperion Cantos you have timetravel, forceshields, faster then light travel, teleportation, immortality and a loads of other things that current scientific theory deem either impossible or highly unlikely. It even has things that seem more like magic then science but the only reason why it seems like magic is because it is never explained how it is done. Here then comes the coup de grace if you will. In this setting there is even something beyond the comprehension of any sentient being presented (including some rather impressive AI's). Strange creatures at the edge of the system they use to communicate presented almost as creatures of myth and magic and definitely as something to be feared. These mysterious creatures are explained in time but I won't spoil the surprise. What we see is a setting where seemingly impossible thing happen while being explained by science.

Now The Hyperion Cantos is what you might call soft sci-fi. The reason of course is that it holds rather precariously on to the science bit while focusing on the fiction. That is ok. It works well for it. Personally I can't of the top of my head come up with some hard science fiction novels but I suppose if we look at movies and games I could find some. Alien springs to mind as well as Halo, Gears of War and Dreampod 9s Jovian Chronicles (roleplaying game). what is the key to understand is that sci-fi is more of a spectrum then on clear genre.

Incidentally the way middle-ground sci-fi often glosses over the more fantastic bits of what they do is with the nicely coined "technobable". Just say a bunch of stuff that sounds scientific and hope it sticks. Star-Trek uses this a LOT.

Now on to fantasy. You can probably guess that my point here is the same. Fantasy also covers a broad spectrum. In this case it is often the gritty versus the fantastic. You have your high-magic setting with wizards and magic, elves and goblins, your basic Lord of the Rings, on the one side and you low-magic, rare (to non-existent) exotic races story on the other. I would say the legend of King Arthur would fit precariously in the second category. The category can get even broad (and more muddied) if we take a look at the D&D setting of Eberron in which magic IS science and technology. Where exotic races have their own nations and where even sentient constructs walk the world. This is still fantasy.

So we can see that fantasy is an umbrella that can cover a lot of things. Is it so strange to think that sci-fi can be just as broad?

Then of course there are the cross-overs. The places where science and magic meet. Science Fantasy. I have no reason to mention this group except to say that I love it. Star Wars (up till mediclorians which I will ignore), Warhammer 40k and a lot of the Final Fantasies out there fall beautifully into this entertaining genre. It truly shows how well the two sides work together and how futile trying to splitting them up is.

Anyway, those are my thoughts. I hope they are of use to someone.
 

Shock and Awe

Winter is Coming
Sep 6, 2008
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I would like it to be somewhat based in reality, to the point it is believable though it is impossible, like Mass Effect and Halo.
 

TheFacelessOne

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Feb 13, 2009
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In Science Fiction, everything they do should at least have SOME base in science, no matter how small.
 

TH3Adv3rs4ry

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Oct 21, 2009
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anyone that likes Arthur C Clarke wins. have you read 'rendezvous with Rama'? just finished reading it. The novel is a good example of 'hard sci-fi' where, the scientific accuracy is key to the plot's development.

my position on the matter is that in most cases, the science in a science fiction story should not be bound by our understanding of science (after all, you think phasers and blasters that shoot beams of light that move slower than the speed of light is logical by any law of physics?) but, I don't think that science should be used as a deus ex machina to wrap up your shitty plot.
 

SpaceSpork

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May 15, 2009
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It should be however plausible it wants to be. I don't believe in the restriction of genres.
 

Vek

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Aug 18, 2008
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I generally prefer more realistic sci-fi, and I voted as such, but Arthur C. Clarke once said,
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
So whatever. I prefer the "2001: a Space Odyssey" to "Star Wars."

Quote ninja'd earlier in the thread.
 

ThreeKneeNick

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Aug 4, 2009
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I'm not even sure fantasy is exempt from plausibility, or at least SOME sort of explanation why things are the way they are. Like how Terry Pratchett says that magic is very glowy and sparkly because wizards care about presentation very much. Not scientific, but something plausible. Sci Fi needs to come up with explanations too, but utilizing science or general scientific laws which might be familiar to us.
 

Deleric

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Dec 29, 2008
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I think Science Fiction should rely on Science, but a less grounded version of it. Assume just for the duration of the show that telephone booths can travel through time and space.
 

Vitor Goncalves

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Mar 22, 2010
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Blindswordmaster said:
"Any significant advance in technology should be indistinguishable from magic."-Some guy
-There you go.
Arthur Clarke said that, but you need to join that sentence to the other 2 clarke laws:
1. When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is probably wrong.
2. The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible.
All 3 laws were applied to science, although clarke himself was both a scientist and a sci-fi novel;ist.

What that sentence means is that the application of advanced technology seems like magic. How diferent is a mobile phone from a crystal ball (ok mobile phones dont help predict future but they allow to comunicate with people miles away). Or a radar/sonar from a tracking spell? A defibrilator from ressuscitation? An anesthetic from a cursed spinning wheel?
The major diference is that technology got a scientific explanation while the spells dont have any explanation at all. The similarity are the effects and probably our reaction the first time we saw them working (if we saw a spell working we would react the same way). Thats what I think.
 

cardinalwiggles

is the king of kong
Jun 21, 2009
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in science fiction i beleive if its plausible it should be possible, therefore explainable. not just mystics and magic but it should come from a science background.
 

Mr. Gency

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Jan 26, 2010
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"In science fiction, anything should be possible."

We should even be able to make tentacle monsters (we don't have to, of course, but we should still be able to).
 

bassdrum

jygabyte!
Oct 6, 2009
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While it is true that sci-fi is indeed fiction, it's also based on science. Therefore, anything done in the show/game/book/movie/whatever should be at least plausible (meaning that it shouldn't defy any commonly known physical laws, etc.)... for the most part.

Basically, come up with something within reason and then pile on some scientific sounding bullshit that makes a little bit of sense, and I'll accept it.
 

Darth Rahu

Critic of the Sith
Nov 20, 2009
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This is a real thorny side to take on things. Despite Science Fiction trying to stay deeply ingrained in science, every single Science Fiction story has some magic wand to it, making it a form of fantasy. On the other hand, fantasy also speaks of overt forms of fiction, medieval sorcerors, dragons, swashbuckling pirates, etc. So in my mind, Science Fiction should be assigned to what they do but never forget that they're still fiction.
 

Loop Stricken

Covered in bees!
Jun 17, 2009
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Now i don't really disagree with Sire Pratchett, but somebody said something like sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable to magic.

Also, the P-man is somewhat guilty of this himself with his Narrativium.
 

RootbeerJello

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Jul 19, 2009
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Sci-Fi is called science fiction, so considering that it's fictional I think the plausibility of it is entirely up to the writers. Sometimes a scientifically acccurate base is all that's required, sometimes it's almost entirely accurate, and sometimes it makes no god damn sense. As long as the end product is entertaining, I don't think there should be hard and fast rules on how plausible Sci-Fi has to be. There are even different genres defined by scientific plausibility (Hard Sci-Fi and Soft or "Social" Sci-Fi).
 

Korten12

Now I want ma...!
Aug 26, 2009
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Jedoro said:
Hundreds of years ago, I doubt people thought we'd be able to answer polls with hundreds, if not thousands of other people across the country or world, so who's to say the crazy stuff in sci-fi is impossible? I say just do whatever in sci-fi; to me it's only separate from fantasy cause it's in the future.
same, most of my sci-fi stories have stuff that even in hundreds of years wouldnt even be possible, it too thought that the only difference between sci-fi and fantasy was that sci-fi is in the future and fantasy is in the past. then what is sci-fi fantasy?