Racism, David Sterling the racist owner, and the NBA

[tippy2k2]

I don't know how prevalent this news story is across the pond but I imagine that if you are an American and have not lived in a cave for the last few days you are aware of this story:

Donald Sterling, owner of the NBA Team Los Angeles Clippers, was recorded on tape saying some very not nice things about black people...

Spoiler: A sample of the comments

1. ?Your whole life, every day, you could do whatever you want. You can sleep with [black people], you can bring them in, you can do whatever you want. The little I ask you is not to promote it...and not to bring them to my games.?

2. ?You?re perceived as either a Latina or white girl. [Rhetorically] Why can?t you be walking publicly with black people? Why? Is there a benefit to you? ...Maybe you?re stupid.

3. ?People feel certain things. Hispanics feel certain things toward blacks. Blacks feel certain things towards other groups. It?s been that way historically and it will always be that way.?

4. ?Yeah it bothers me a lot that you want to promo broadcast that you?re associating with black people. Do you have to??

5. ?You?re supposed to be a delicate white or a delicate Latina girl.?

6. ?I feel that way so strongly, and it may cause our relationship to just break apart. And if it does, it does. It?s better to break apart now than break apart later.?

7. ?There?s nothing wrong with minorities, they?re fabulous. Fabulous.?

8. ?[I don?t think] there?s [anything] wrong with...your skin color. Why are you saying these things? To upset me??

9. ?There?s no negativity! I love everybody. I?m just saying, in your lousy f******* Instagrams, you don?t have to have yourself...walking with black people. You don?t have to.

10. ?I think the fact that you admire [Magic Johnson]?I?ve known him well, and he should be admired. And I?m just saying that it?s too bad you can?t admire him privately.?

11. ?Admire him, bring him here, feed him, f*** him, I don?t care. You can do anything. But don?t put him on an Instagram for the world to have to see so they have to call me. And don?t bring him to my games, okay??

Source [http://www.boston.com/news/odd/2014/04/26/the-grossest-things-uttered-the-sterling-tape/pRDHWOISFR64Ux4Sd6bcPK/story.html]

These quotes (and a lot more of them) were lifted from a private conversation Sterling had with his mistress (who recorded it, why it was recorded, and how it was leaked are still unknown as of now).

Basically everyone in the NBA is of one mind on this guy; everything he said is atrocious and this man has no place in the league. The majority of players in the NBA are black (including many of his stars) and the coach for his team is also black.

Some owners have argued that he should be booted from the league immediately.

This situation reminds me of the Mozilla CEO thing that just happened (except for this is obviously against black people rather than homosexuals) so I'm curious what other people think about this situation.

Is it the same as the Mozilla problem? Should the man be forced to sell his NBA team and be removed from the league? Should he be allowed his opinions and left alone (as Mark Cuban, Dallas Maveriks owner, argues; it's a slippery slope [http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10854381/mark-cuban-dallas-mavericks-rails-donald-sterling-not-favor-kicking-owner])? Do the players/coach have any obligation here? Do the fans have any obligations here? What do you think?

Note: They know for a fact that this is Sterling on the tape. As of right now, the NBA has fined Sterling 2.5 Million Dollars and has been banned for life from participating/attending NBA functions (he's still owner). However, it's questionable whether they can legally force him to sell his team. The team did play their latest game but they did a "silent protest" where they warmed-up before the game with their shirts inside out to hid the Clippers logo. It's also rumored that if they can't force Sterling to sell and he refuses that the NBA commissioner will allow the players on the team to walk away from their current contracts (Note; this is just a rumor as of now). The vast majority of sponsors have already pulled out of the team.

EDIT: Also Note, this isn't the first time Sterling has gotten in trouble with race issues. Throughout the 2000's, Sterling was accused of not allowing black individuals to rent any of his properties. He eventually settled out of court on the cases against him. Thanks to mecegirl in the thread for reminding me of this. Source [http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/30/donald-sterling-housing-discrimination_n_5241217.html]

EDIT2: Some extra reading about Sterling if you're bored and curious:

http://grantland.com/features/sterlings-fold/

Sterling has made no public comments since the tape was leaked.

EDIT3: Sterling speaks!

"I wish I would have just paid her off" [http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10874138/donald-sterling-embattled-owner-los-angeles-clippers-says-wishes-had-paid-woman-off].

EDIT 4: The plot thickens. Donald Sterling WAS supposed to receive a NAACP (a civil rights organization for minorities) award for donating a ton of money for minority charities. The actual amounts and whatnot have not been revealed (as of now). The NAACP did not allow him to get the award that they were going to give him but they did NOT strip him of the Lifetime Achievement Award that he received in 2009. Source [http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/clippers/2014/04/28/donald-sterling-clippers-naacp-alice-huffman/8411441/]

EDIT 5: As expected, the NBA is going to attempt to force Sterling to sell based on breaking a NBA contract, specifically "an owner will not take any position or action that will materially and adversely affect a team or the league" [http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10892918/nba-legal-strategy-remove-donald-sterling-los-angeles-clippers-owner-emerges]

EDIT 6: Oh Goody! My thread got revived. I stopped updating this due to what I thought was a now dead thread but I suppose I got more info

Earlier in the week, V Stiviano is being investigated [http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=9529815] for attempting to extort money from Sterling in exchange for not releasing the tapes. This would explain Sterling's earlier comments about wishing he'd have just "Paid her off".

Another tape has also been leaked with Sterling talking to a unknown person denying he's a racist.

Spoiler: Sterlings Defense

A new recording sheds some light on Los Angeles Clippers owner Donald Sterling's perspective -- including a vehement denial that he is racist -- in the wake of being banned for life and fined $2.5 million by the NBA over a week ago.

In the audio recording, posted by Radar Online and confirmed by ABC News to be Sterling, the embattled owner yells, "You know I'm not a racist!" to an unidentified listener.

STERLING BANNED FOR LIFE

Adam Silver/Donald Sterling
NBA commissioner Adam Silver banned Clippers owner Donald Sterling from the league for life in the wake of Sterling's racist comments. Full coverage »

"You think I'm a racist?" he says. "You think I have anything in the world but love for everybody? You don't think that! You know I'm not a racist!"

As evidence, Sterling cites his experience as president of a diverse high school in east Los Angeles. He also says of his management of the Clippers: "How can you be in this business and be a racist? Do you think I tell the coach to get white players, or to get the best player he can get?"

Sterling says his feelings were hurt by Magic Johnson's reaction, in particular, to the controversy.

"It breaks my heart that Magic Johnson, a guy that I respect so much, wouldn't stand up and say, 'Well, let's get the facts. Let's get him and talk to him,'" Sterling says. "Nobody tried. Nobody!"

It is unclear when the most recent recording -- reportedly a taped phone call between Sterling and a "longtime friend" -- was made.

In the original recording posted by TMZ, Sterling is heard saying he wants his associate V. Stiviano to remove an online photo of her with Johnson, saying it bothered him "a lot" that she was "associating with black people." Johnson subsequently spoke out against Sterling and was named as a potential buyer of the Clippers.

Johnson, a partner in the Los Angeles Dodgers' ownership group, promptly dismissed such talk.

On the new recording, Sterling bristles at the idea he could be forced to sell the team. As a lawyer, he says, it's his opinion that "you can't force someone to sell property in America."

NBA commissioner Adam Silver has urged the league's other owners to force a sale.

Other than a brief interview made public last week, Sterling has kept a relatively low profile since the first recording was made public. Sterling was quoted by DuJour.com last Friday as saying he wished he had "paid off" Stiviano, the woman behind the original recording. According to the person who conducted that interview, Sterling "expressed remorse," although no other statements from him were provided at the time.
Source [http://espn.go.com/los-angeles/nba/story/_/id/10905148/los-angeles-clippers-owner-donald-sterling-says-new-recording-not-racist]

TLDR his reaction; People are twisting his words; he's not a racist and he proves it with all of his charity work with minorities and that he works with plenty of black individuals. He also implies that he is going to fight the NBA if they try to make him force the team.

 

[Vegosiux]

This situation reminds me of the Mozilla CEO thing that just happened (except for this is obviously against black people rather than homosexuals) so I'm curious what other people think about this situation.

Is it the same as the Mozilla problem? Should the man be forced to sell his NBA team and be removed from the league? Should he be allowed his opinions and left alone (as Mark Cuban, Dallas Maveriks owner, argues; it's a slippery slope [http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/10854381/mark-cuban-dallas-mavericks-rails-donald-sterling-not-favor-kicking-owner])? Do the players/coach have any obligation here? What do you think?

I think the equivalent would be people demanding that fans stop supporting Clippers, stop buying Clippers merchandise, and stop attending Clippers games, not what you proposed. After all, Eich wasn't forced to sell his share of Mozilla, nor was there any talk about forcing him to.

As for ol' Donald, he's a scumbag. I wouldn't touch him with a 10 foot pole. Wouldn't want to get any of that shit on me.

 

[Marter]

Yeah, it's not likely they can force him to sell the team. A commissioner of a league is hired by the owners. The owners wouldn't give him the power to remove one of them from the league. That just wouldn't make sense. About the only way I could see him being forced to sell is, if it's in the NBA constitution -- which isn't public knowledge -- all 29 other owners vote for it. But it's likely that it'll be a peer pressure situation. If the sponsors pull out, the other owners don't want him there, the players won't play, the fans won't attend ... it will be financially inadvisable for him to continue his ownership. Then he'll sell, assuming he's not the most stubborn businessperson ever. But it's not likely that he can be "forced" into a sale.

 

[StriderShinryu]

I absolutely believe that Sterling's comments have no place on this planet, never mind in a professional sports league built largely on the performance of black athletes. I do, however, find it somewhat difficult to reconcile the actions taken by the league given that Sterling's comments were made during what he believed to be a private phone call. Once the situation was made public, the NBA had to so something about it and I applaud that they did so quickly and decisively.. but it still feels a little weird to me.

Yeah, it's not likely they can force him to sell the team. A commissioner of a league is hired by the owners. The owners wouldn't give him the power to remove one of them from the league. That just wouldn't make sense. About the only way I could see him being forced to sell is, if it's in the NBA constitution -- which isn't public knowledge -- all 29 other owners vote for it. But it's likely that it'll be a peer pressure situation. If the sponsors pull out, the other owners don't want him there, the players won't play, the fans won't attend ... it will be financially inadvisable for him to continue his ownership. Then he'll sell, assuming he's not the most stubborn businessperson ever. But it's not likely that he can be "forced" into a sale.

It's been stated that if 75% of the owners (23 of 30) vote in favour of removing him then he will be removed and a sale forced. Given the situation and how unpopular you would appear if you actually supported keeping him around, I'd say it's actually pretty likely there will be a forced sale of the team.

 

[Marter]

It's been stated that if 75% of the owners (23 of 30) vote in favour of removing him then he will be removed and a sale forced. Given the situation and how unpopular you would appear if you actually supported keeping him around, I'd say it's actually pretty likely there will be a forced sale of the team.

This is good news. Thanks for passing it along. Safe to say he won't be around much longer.

 

[dyre]

Wait, the owner of a basketball team is racist against black people? Isn't that...I mean, you know...nevermind.

 

[mecegirl]

It should be noted that Sterling has been in legal trouble numerous times for housing discrimination(he also works in real estate) and he has been accused of making racist statements from members of the team before this incident. So no. This isn't a slippery slope type of situation with this guy. He really does have issues when it comes to race. It's just that this time it's been caught on tape. I say good riddance.

 

[KissingSunlight]

I genuinely have mixed feelings about this.

Donald Sterling has been a racist jerk for a long time. He should have been banned from the league a long time ago.

As I mentioned in a list about the things I don't like about the internet, there are no boundaries anymore. It was a conversation that was illegally taped. If he did something recently that had racist intent like refusing to hire someone because of their race or fire someone for the same reason, then I would feel that this punishment would be just.

The NBA Commissioner said that Donald Sterling was being punished for his comments and not on his past behaviors. This is wrong. He should be punished for his past behaviors. Nobody should lose their livelihood because of some comments made in private.

TLR - It was the right punishment, but for the wrong reason.

 

[madwarper]

It's been stated that if 75% of the owners (23 of 30) vote in favour of removing him then he will be removed and a sale forced. Given the situation and how unpopular you would appear if you actually supported keeping him around, I'd say it's actually pretty likely there will be a forced sale of the team.

Assuming that they can "force" him to sell the team... Who would he sell it to, and for how much?

According to Forbes [http://www.forbes.com/teams/los-angeles-clippers/], the team had been valued at $575 million. So, as punishment for being a racist, we're going to have someone buy the team from you at fair market value?

Also, I'm not sure how they're going to get him pay a single cent of the 2.5 million fine if he's banned for life.

 

[tippy2k2]

It should be noted that Sterling has been in legal trouble numerous times for housing discrimination(he also works in real estate) and he has been accused of making racist statements from members of the team before this incident. So no. This isn't a slippery slope type of situation with this guy. He really does have issues when it comes to race. It's just that this time it's been caught on tape. I say good riddance.

For David Sterling specifically there's not but I think Cuban's issue with kicking him out is that Sterling would be kicked out for having an opinion.

Spoiler: Cubans statement

"I think there's a [league] constitution for a reason, right?" Cuban said before Game 4 of the Mavericks-San Antonio Spurs series. "Because this is a very slippery slope. What Donald said was wrong. It was abhorrent. There's no place for racism in the NBA, any business I'm associated with, and I don't want to be associated with people who have that position.

"But at the same time, that's a decision I make. I think you've got to be very, very careful when you start making blanket statements about what people say and think, as opposed to what they do. It's a very, very slippery slope.

"Again, there's no excuse for his positions. There's no excuse for what he said. There's no excuse for anybody to support racism. There's no place for it in our league, but there's a very, very, very slippery slope."

I don't think he's worried that owners would be kicked out left and right for having opinions (and he's one of the most eccentric and outspoken owner in the NBA) but he's worried that if you can kick someone out for having an opinion, that sets a precedent. If Sterling can be kicked out for having a racist asshole opinion, can someone get kicked out for hating gays? Can someone get kicked out for not supporting the NBA and all of it's decisions? Can someone get kicked out for not liking Cinnabons? His concern is that when an owner can be kicked out for having an opinion, where does that line get drawn for now it has to be drawn?

 

[kurupt87]

The whole situation is fucked.

The fact that the guy is an unrepentant racist arsehole is bad.

The fact that the thought police wield such huge power is far more so.

 

[mecegirl]

It should be noted that Sterling has been in legal trouble numerous times for housing discrimination(he also works in real estate) and he has been accused of making racist statements from members of the team before this incident. So no. This isn't a slippery slope type of situation with this guy. He really does have issues when it comes to race. It's just that this time it's been caught on tape. I say good riddance.

For David Sterling specifically there's not but I think Cuban's issue with kicking him out is that Sterling would be kicked out for having an opinion.

Spoiler: Cubans statement

"I think there's a [league] constitution for a reason, right?" Cuban said before Game 4 of the Mavericks-San Antonio Spurs series. "Because this is a very slippery slope. What Donald said was wrong. It was abhorrent. There's no place for racism in the NBA, any business I'm associated with, and I don't want to be associated with people who have that position.

"But at the same time, that's a decision I make. I think you've got to be very, very careful when you start making blanket statements about what people say and think, as opposed to what they do. It's a very, very slippery slope.

"Again, there's no excuse for his positions. There's no excuse for what he said. There's no excuse for anybody to support racism. There's no place for it in our league, but there's a very, very, very slippery slope."

I don't think he's worried that owners would be kicked out left and right for having opinions (and he's one of the most eccentric and outspoken owner in the NBA) but he's worried that if you can kick someone out for having an opinion, that sets a precedent. If Sterling can be kicked out for having a racist asshole opinion, can someone get kicked out for hating gays? Can someone get kicked out for not supporting the NBA and all of it's decisions? Can someone get kicked out for not liking Cinnabons? His concern is that when an owner can be kicked out for having an opinion, where does that line get drawn for now it has to be drawn?

That's a dumb thing to worry about. Really it is. Here we have a known racist getting kicked out and someone's worried about slippery slopes? Stuff like this is why progress never happens. Dude's getting kicked out because he was caught, not because he has an opinion. And NBA players have been fined for using slurs already (happened to Kobe Bryant), so we are past that point anyway.

And let's say that it was just an opinion. This isn't the same as not liking Cinnabons. But if you don't like Cinnabons, then you don't eat Cinnabons. So to continue your silly analogy. He has a negative opinion about the people he works with. And that can effect the way that he interacts with those people. Lets say his negative opinion was about homosexuality? How exactally do you think he would treat people who were openly homosexual? Where the hell do people get this idea that someone can be bigoted enough to say all the crap Sterling said, and still be professional? Have they ever interacted with someone who was bigoted towards them? It just doesn't work that way.

According to the things that have been said about Sterling it actually has been effecting the way he interacts with black people(and other groups he doesn't fancy). The housing discrimination is the big one. http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4187729 But things like him being accused of bringing women to the locker rooms just to show his players off like livestock have happened as well. And that came out while he was in the middle of a lawsuit for treating a coach unfairly.http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/23649/legal-filings-show-frustration-of-clipper-gms Dude's bad news. So to worry about slipery slopes in this instance is, like I said before, dumb. If it were someone with a cleaner record I could understand the concern. But this is hardly the first time he's been accused of racism.

 

[Rylot]

As someone with no really qualifications to talk about it, it seems to me that the best course of action to take for the NBA is to wait. If they kick him out now and force a sale it may set a precedent about unpopular opinions as the Mav's owner is worried and there is the issue of this being a taped private conversation. If the NBA waits for the players to either walk off, or if they're still legal required to play then playing so poorly they loose every game; have sponsors pull out (like most of them have already done it seems like); and ticket sales to plummet he'll be loosing so much money that it won't be financially viable for him to own the team any more and he'll have to sell it. It may take a little while but odds are good he'll have to sell if for less than he'd get if he's forced to sell it now. Again I don't even really like the NBA and rarely watch games but this is just my two cents worth.

 

[Ed130 The Vanguard]

as a member of the LGBTTQQAI2S community, I totally understood the logic.

What?

Even plugging LGBTTQQAI2S into Google did not bring up any relevant results, is this a spelling mistake?

As for Mr Racist, its less that he's being forced to sell due to his opinions, its more his opinions are costing the NBA a good chunk of revenue.

You can voice your 'opinions' as much as you want, you just have to remember:

1) Others can voice their displeasure by not buying products associated with you.

2) If enough of 1 occurs then your fellow business men will ask you to take extended leave/voluntary leave/retire, because if there is one thing that motivates business, it's money.

 

[Saetha]

My feelings on this as compared to the Mozilla thing is more or less the same - while the witch-hunty nature of the whole thing makes me uncomfortable, what the person in question did (Or said, or says, or whatever) is wrong. Setting aside the fact that he's in a position of power and thus, potentially discriminating against potential employees based on their race, this could cause trouble among the team itself. As the article notes, a lot of players in the NBA are black. If they allowed David Sterling's behavior to go unpunished, they'd probably end up alienating a lot of their players. And those players probably have every right to be alienated.

Not to mention that he kinda sounds like a shitty boyfriend here, telling his girlfriend (Or whatever) that she has to be a "delicate white or Latina girl" and trying to control who she associates with and what she makes public. But that's more between them than anything - if he had just stuck with the being a bad boyfriend part, then I'd say this is wrong, because that's an intensely personal matter that doesn't really effect those outside the relationship. That being said... there's just too much potential for him to discriminate here. Someone like that shouldn't have any major authority over others.

Also, this really isn't entirely like the Mozilla case. In the Mozilla case, they were boycotting a company over what one guys thinks - there's an awful lot of people getting caught in the cross-fire there. Here, well, the Clippers as a team might suffer, but they've obviously shown that they don't support what happened.

 

[Happiness Assassin]

Frankly, I can't give a damn about this asshole if I fucking tried. He has acted like an asshole for years, got caught for it for once, and it blew up in his face. In this day and age, what he said is reprehensible and should not be tolerated, especially considering the fact that he makes money off a team that is 80% black. If he were forced out, the league washes its hands of this douche and he collects a large paycheck. Free speech and consequence free speech are not the same thing.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

Nope, it stands for: 'Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender, Transsexual, Queer, Questioning, A-Sexual, Intersex, 2-Spirit.'

But I'm not having this discussion with you, so drop it.

This made me giggle. Because using that ludicrous acronym is ASKING to have that discussion.