Rape Games Banned in Japan

[KronosIII]

damn retarded. Japan is in a bigger mess with unemployment then anyone else. Why not stop 20% of the gaming industry to make even more people jobless. PLUS! i hate bans of any kind. Might as well ban all killing in video games I guess. SINCE KILLING IS WORSE THEN RAPE.

Its at the hands of the people to decide what to play.

 

[Flying-Emu]

Here is a question.

Do rape games allow men/women to experience the vile act in a safe, private enviroment which then prevents them from going out and doing it "fo'real"? Do these games act as a curiosity killer?

Although my personal standpoint is that these "games" are massivly badong (bad and wrong), I am still intrested in the opinions of this dear community.

Well, I'm impressed that I'm not the only person who saw Kung Pow! Enter the Fist.

Anywho, I've honestly got mixed feelings about this. Since the EOCS is voluntary... I don't see this changing much.

But good show.

 

[Cocal]

Why is British parliament and other forms of government getting involved with japans matters?? Hey if Japan want games in which you stalk and rape girls who give a shit it's Japan! All kinds of crazy mother fuckers going on over there. But if British parliament wants to get involved that's going to far. I mean I'm not trying to promote rape games but I mean what ever float's your boat... But seriously people shouldn't get involved with other peoples matters. And that fact remains in America we have freedom of speech so eat that fucking feminist / bullshitters.

 

[icnfde]

To be honest, I don't think banning any type of material is ever a good thing.

If you want to talk strictly pragmatically, making such material more restricted doesn't necessarily equate to making rape less likely (if anything, it's possible to have the opposite effect). While it's definitely noteworthy that these games make up such a large portion of the PC gaming market in Japan, it's also interesting to note that Japan has a very low rape rate [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#UN_Statistics] in relation to most other nations. Until they can show that these games actually contribute to discrimination or criminality, banning them seems premature.

And, of course, this is not to mention that I'm opposed to all kinds of censorship. It may be about rape, but if that's the story they want to tell, I would call that their right. As gross as I may find it, may tastes can't change their desires, and my taboos should not hold power over their behavior.

Although my personal standpoint is that these "games" are massivly badong (bad and wrong), I am still intrested in the opinions of this dear community.

One of my favorite movies ever, and I love you for reminding me of it.

See bolded.

I'm surprised most people ignored this. A country that legalizes "rape games" has the least amount of rape per capita, and a country with one of the highest rape statistics in the world is trying to enforce their laws on them. Perhaps "Equality Now" should look into their own backyard before attacking the foreign market? (Most of these games aren't even able to be sold internationally).

Not saying the game is great or anything, but would you rather people getting their jollies off on video games in the privacy of their own home or would you rather they pay your children a visit?

This. As distasteful as the material is, and how little I would think of anyone I found playing it, you can't deny that censoring these rape games whilst not even raising an eyebrow at the sort of extreme violence present in the majority of contemporary shooters. We're just used to it now - we don't notice just how violent our entertainment is these days, but we don't consider it to be damaging to our mental health. In fact, we mock those who say that it is numbing us to violence and is likely to make us more prone to commit such acts in the future.

Despite this we seem to feel that just because we don't like someone else's subject material, all the arguments that we reject out of hand when used on us should apply to them. Double standards, people - beware the hypocrisy here. If you say that shooting thousands of enemies/aliens/robots etc in no way makes you more likely to shoot up your local school, then it can be just as easily argued that simulated rape has no bearing on committing the actual act - especially if in a country where such games make up 10-20% of the market there is a remarkably low rate of rape.

Since the vast majority of people here have no first-hand experience here, all the comments are little more informed than the vast majority of the media's reportage on computer games - alarmist, uninformed and hostile. It's not surprising, with a controversial subject such as rape, but we take mass-slaughter games for granted - God of War, Gears of War, CoD (CoD 4 even features an actual murder - a summary execution of a helpless prisoner, an no-one bats an eyelid...) anyone? Remember that.

This man deserves an award.

 

[Xshu]

To all of you cheering, you can't be all libertarian only when it suites you.

I can if I admit it's hypocritical. What are you going to do about it? Call me a hypocrite? Regardless, I'm not libertarian at all. I think if it's not hurting anyone, fuck you and stop doing it anyways.

The fact that games like this are banned, while games like postal get the green flag goes beyond a simple sigh and a facepalm, this is disgusting.

I agree. Games like Postal should be banned as well.

A. If virtual killing is considered OK by us because it is not real, why is rape differnet.?

There are relatively few games where the object of the game is to kill innocent people. The vast majority of people killed in video games are trying to kill you, and many of the ones not trying to kill you would kill you if they had a chance. Furthermore, the purpose of a violent game like God of War, for example, is not "I am murdering these people, fuck yeah, I love murder", it's "these people are in my way, how challenging, I enjoy winning". In most games you do not kill for the sake of killing, you kill because whatever you're killing is an obstacle. In a rape game, on the other hand, the object of the game is "I am raping this girl, fuck yeah, I love rape". Games like that are just not cool.

"Hey, I disagree with this! The governments role is totally to outlaw anything objectional."

...Isn't it? Fuck, if that's not exactly what governments are supposed to do then I don't know what is.

First they came for the depiction of Rape in Video games, but I was not a supporter of the First Amendment so I did not speak out.
Then they came for Murder and Nudity in Movies, but I was not supporter of the First Amendment, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Media in all forms, but I was not a supporter of the First Amendment so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no longer a First Amendment to protect my rights.

"First They Came..." is a very nice poem and all, but it does technically rely on the slippery slope fallacy to get its message across. You're using the same argument that people use to say letting gays marry might lead to legal pedophilia. It's a fallacy. In any case, I really doubt the Japanese right to free speech is called "the first amendment".

Actually, as far as psychological implications goes, it's not. It's teaching you to pull the trigger. It's teaching you to take a life.

How terribly oversimplistic of you. Are you saying soldiers are no better than serial killers?

This is a bad thing any way people look at it

Really? The way I'm looking at it, it seems pretty good. Maybe you should look at it from some other ways.

Some of you might be saying at this point "but Theru, we're talking about a RAPE game". My answer to which is still "grow the heck up".

To which I would respond "no u".

Then I will also point out as someone who has watched a lot of anime and even played a few hentai games that typically rape is EITHER part of a horror plot, OR if portrayed as being a fairly "good" thing it's similar to the above novels where the "victim" actually winds up enjoying themselves.

I like how you just glossed over the whole "part of a horror plot" part. Those are the games where the women are crying and screaming and are often killed after the rape is done. Oh, but it's "part of a horror plot" so that's okay.

Those groups have made my list, for trying to hamper freedom of expression.

Yeah, I have a list too. It's of everyone who takes freedom and abuses it to the point where it makes everyone else uncomfortable for the sake of the few or the one. The ACLU and NAMBLA are on there.

This goes against the right to free speech.

You people and your free speech. Does the phrase "too much of a good thing" mean nothing to you?

(all this being said, i believe all rapists shound be forcibly made into eunuchs (no more male genitalia)).

That really doesn't stop female rapists. Yes, they do exist. No, it's not impossible.

Give them too much more time and even the middle east will bow to them.

How the hell would that be a bad thing? I mean, I dislike feminist extremists as much as the next guy, but no way are their sexist rules worse than some of the sexist rules in the mid-east.

Besides which you start to establish a precedent that gets quite disturbing.

Slippery slope.

So being repetitive, I think this is ridiculous, and honestly if this kind of stuff offends you, there is noone forcing you to play it.

You know, this kind of argument is a bit annoying. No, nobody is technically forcing me to watch it, but you know what? Sometimes I'm looking at various youtube-style porn sites and I click some hentai and oh hey they just fired a shotgun into that woman's vagina. Well, nobody forced me to watch it so I guess it's my fault that I clicked on the thumbnail with good animation.

Seriously, just because we don't go out and buy it doesn't mean we won't happen upon it. Anyone who likes hentai is going to see some lolicon, for example, and they don't need to see that shit while they're wanking (or ever). I've been casually browsing through google image seach and seen pictures of animated babies being raped to death (I am disgusted to admit this particular picture is actually a meme). "Don't play it" and "never see it" are two very different attempts, and the second one is a lot easier to get away with if the shit isn't legal.

Anyone know if Japan has anything similar to a freedom of speech law that could possibly be used to counter this move?

It might not matter. I believe South Korea has free speech, but god help you if you bad mouth the government. Some places have free speech, and some places have "free" speech.

Which game does not glorify violence, killing, or otherwise doing things that endanger other people?

To be fair, some sports and most puzzle games don't involve violence, and many games only involve violence against monsters, aliens, or demons.

10-20% of video games in Japan are rape related?

PC games. PC. There are probably no console rape games.

Why is British parliament and other forms of government getting involved with japans matters?

That's silly. That's like saying nobody should step in and help starving children in Africa because it's none of our business. Sometimes you stick your nose into other people's business, and sometimes they're not going to like it, but if you leave them to their own devices you end up with North Korea. Not that Japan could ever get that bad...uhh...again, but still.

...Wow, I got kind of carried away there.

 

[Bat Vader]

but this is fictional, you make it sound like a real life event, this is about a game in wchich theyre are no feelings, just animations, and what te player chooses to do, there is no dignity in a game like this already lol

They should at least have the women fight back.

What, so people could go and say "You Violently rape people in this game"?

I don't see why they just don't make the game about women just submitting to sex. Why do you have to rape them? Killing people in a game is quite fun, at least in that you are trying to fight for something. In these you just rape someone, no real goal. Maybe the should have just had the player buy a hooker instead and play rape games with her, At least then she is submitting herself for payment.

 

[world_of_dragons]

Spoiler

We

To all of you cheering, you can't be all libertarian only when it suites you.

I can if I admit it's hypocritical. What are you going to do about it? Call me a hypocrite? Regardless, I'm not libertarian at all. I think if it's not hurting anyone, fuck you and stop doing it anyways.

The fact that games like this are banned, while games like postal get the green flag goes beyond a simple sigh and a facepalm, this is disgusting.

I agree. Games like Postal should be banned as well.

A. If virtual killing is considered OK by us because it is not real, why is rape differnet.?

There are relatively few games where the object of the game is to kill innocent people. The vast majority of people killed in video games are trying to kill you, and many of the ones not trying to kill you would kill you if they had a chance. Furthermore, the purpose of a violent game like God of War, for example, is not "I am murdering these people, fuck yeah, I love murder", it's "these people are in my way, how challenging, I enjoy winning". In most games you do not kill for the sake of killing, you kill because whatever you're killing is an obstacle. In a rape game, on the other hand, the object of the game is "I am raping this girl, fuck yeah, I love rape". Games like that are just not cool.

"Hey, I disagree with this! The governments role is totally to outlaw anything objectional."

...Isn't it? Fuck, if that's not exactly what governments are supposed to do then I don't know what is.

First they came for the depiction of Rape in Video games, but I was not a supporter of the First Amendment so I did not speak out.
Then they came for Murder and Nudity in Movies, but I was not supporter of the First Amendment, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Media in all forms, but I was not a supporter of the First Amendment so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no longer a First Amendment to protect my rights.

"First They Came..." is a very nice poem and all, but it does technically rely on the slippery slope fallacy to get its message across. You're using the same argument that people use to say letting gays marry might lead to legal pedophilia. It's a fallacy. In any case, I really doubt the Japanese right to free speech is called "the first amendment".

Actually, as far as psychological implications goes, it's not. It's teaching you to pull the trigger. It's teaching you to take a life.

How terribly oversimplistic of you. Are you saying soldiers are no better than serial killers?

This is a bad thing any way people look at it

Really? The way I'm looking at it, it seems pretty good. Maybe you should look at it from some other ways.

Some of you might be saying at this point "but Theru, we're talking about a RAPE game". My answer to which is still "grow the heck up".

To which I would respond "no u".

Then I will also point out as someone who has watched a lot of anime and even played a few hentai games that typically rape is EITHER part of a horror plot, OR if portrayed as being a fairly "good" thing it's similar to the above novels where the "victim" actually winds up enjoying themselves.

I like how you just glossed over the whole "part of a horror plot" part. Those are the games where the women are crying and screaming and are often killed after the rape is done. Oh, but it's "part of a horror plot" so that's okay.

Those groups have made my list, for trying to hamper freedom of expression.

Yeah, I have a list too. It's of everyone who takes freedom and abuses it to the point where it makes everyone else uncomfortable for the sake of the few or the one. The ACLU and NAMBLA are on there.

This goes against the right to free speech.

You people and your free speech. Does the phrase "too much of a good thing" mean nothing to you?

(all this being said, i believe all rapists shound be forcibly made into eunuchs (no more male genitalia)).

That really doesn't stop female rapists. Yes, they do exist. No, it's not impossible.

Give them too much more time and even the middle east will bow to them.

How the hell would that be a bad thing? I mean, I dislike feminist extremists as much as the next guy, but no way are their sexist rules worse than some of the sexist rules in the mid-east.

Besides which you start to establish a precedent that gets quite disturbing.

Slippery slope.

So being repetitive, I think this is ridiculous, and honestly if this kind of stuff offends you, there is noone forcing you to play it.

You know, this kind of argument is a bit annoying. No, nobody is technically forcing me to watch it, but you know what? Sometimes I'm looking at various youtube-style porn sites and I click some hentai and oh hey they just fired a shotgun into that woman's vagina. Well, nobody forced me to watch it so I guess it's my fault that I clicked on the thumbnail with good animation.

Seriously, just because we don't go out and buy it doesn't mean we won't happen upon it. Anyone who likes hentai is going to see some lolicon, for example, and they don't need to see that shit while they're wanking (or ever). I've been casually browsing through google image seach and seen pictures of animated babies being raped to death (I am disgusted to admit this particular picture is actually a meme). "Don't play it" and "never see it" are two very different attempts, and the second one is a lot easier to get away with if the shit isn't legal.

Anyone know if Japan has anything similar to a freedom of speech law that could possibly be used to counter this move?

It might not matter. I believe South Korea has free speech, but god help you if you bad mouth the government. Some places have free speech, and some places have "free" speech.

Which game does not glorify violence, killing, or otherwise doing things that endanger other people?

To be fair, some sports and most puzzle games don't involve violence, and many games only involve violence against monsters, aliens, or demons.

10-20% of video games in Japan are rape related?

PC games. PC. There are probably no console rape games.

Why is British parliament and other forms of government getting involved with japans matters?

That's silly. That's like saying nobody should step in and help starving children in Africa because it's none of our business. Sometimes you stick your nose into other people's business, and sometimes they're not going to like it, but if you leave them to their own devices you end up with North Korea. Not that Japan could ever get that bad...uhh...again, but still.

...Wow, I got kind of carried away there.

Well, I'll say this. Freedom of speech and expression is truly a double-edged sword here. The good use it to bring truth and in some cases enjoyment while the bad try to use it to spread bullshit and in some cases just be a dick. This is what I have to say to people that advocate the banning of this game-as little as I care for its fate anyway-rather than only supporting free speech and expression when it suites you, how about actually using it.

See or hear something you don't like, say something about. While you find a specific media that you don't like, instead of crying to the government to get it banned, just your freedom of expression to deter others from playing it.

But since I'm on the subject, as much as we defend games that are called out on for its violence, we seem to ignore the fact that more than a few games out there aren't marketed on things that make a good game: storyline, graphics and gameplay, but instead how bloody, violent or sexual it is.

Take games like God of War, Dead or Alive and... let's say, Mortal Kombat for example. These games are great/good/functional, but the people who make them create their fanbase by focusing solely on how freakin' bloody & violent or sexy and boner-inspiring it is, not to mention on how much bad media it attracts.

Last I heard, there's no reward for bloodiest/most violent game or female character with the biggest hooters.

(Note to anti-game advocates and concerned parents, stop with the bad press because you're just drawing wanted attention towards the game you don't like)

Now there are some great games out there that-while being violent-focus on its story and gameplay. Take for example, the Devil May Cry series. Do you have any idea how many times Dante's been impaled, shot, stabbed blown up and all kinds of other shit throughout the series as a whole? That series has been sporting M ratings for a reason. But its violence isn't the driving force of the game, the game itself is.

This sort of thing has turned me off to games that use these controversial themes as its bargaining chip, because it comes off as a mindless thing of sex drugs and violence. I'm the kind of guy who would prefer violence with a purpose, and a meaningful one at that.

Games like True Crime, Bujingai, Dynasty Warriors, Ratchet and Clank and more are great games and each have large amounts of violence, but the violence isn't what makes the game, its the gameplay that does.

Finally there's the if you don't like it, don't look at it. I'll answer this with my experience with my very first h-game: Hitomi: My Stepsister. The premise is about a guy getting a stepsister who is so desperate for his affection that she's willing to put herself at his mercy. I avoided the game at first, but I decided to try it. Maybe I was attracted to Hitomi's character model, maybe I wanted to see if the very premise of taking advantage of an emotionally fragile and submissive girl could actually be avoided. Maybe I was just curious.

Whatever the case, I downloaded the game. Now, I made-what I thought at the time-some progress in steering the course of the game where I wanted it to go, but I still ended up raping Hitomi and the game would have it so as long as I chose Hitomi, I would have to rape her. Almost the entirety of Hitomi's arc was my character raping her.

As you could guess, I was quite pissed off with my character and wanted to kill him. Now, I could've stopped playing, I could've deleted the game from my laptop and condemn it to a piece of shit rape-fest. The only thing that kept me from doing that was the self-promise that I could perhaps save Hitomi from her asshole stepbrother. So, I simply skipped through all the rape scenes until I got to the point I wanted to go from the get go and save the poor girl.

^that point of that is, we can tell people to ignore things they find objectionable all we want, but sometimes it's not an option. But even then, you usually have the choice to back out and once again use your freedom of speech to counter the obscene subject matter.

Sorry if that was long and probably irrelevant but that's how I feel about this.

 

[Leorex]

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaat??? But we rely on Japan for our crazy!

Dude if they get rid of rape porn and hentai and guro I'm never gonna forgive them

Japan is the last bastion of unadulterated crazy in the world. I say let them keep their games.

Nobody objected before, so this feels more like forced outrage, because otherwise, this would have come up sooner. If people are really against things like discrimination, they should actually try to change things on their own time instead of waiiting for people to make a fuss. It seems like it would be more productive to stop film and television writers from depicting women in steriotypical ways, as those are more widespread. These people just went after this game because it's an easy target that makes removal from the legal market seem like a difference and doesn't heavily impact the economy or approval ratings.

Too bad nobody will read this, as it is a jillion pages into the thread.

i read it

 

[Hiroshi Mishima]

Gods am I so freaking glad that someone finally made a stand against that crap. I discovered that genre years ago (we're talking around 1999-2000) and it both shocked and appalled me. On one hand, yeah, it was a mild turn on, but at the same time, it sickened me to no end. It took a fair ammount of time before I could finally put some of that behind me. I'm most certainly 100%+ in favor of getting rid of rape games.

..the one argument I can say against getting rid of them, is that if the people who play/buy these games can't play them to take out their fantasies, they might resort to the real thing. However, I'm not sure that really justifies the production of these games...

 

[samsonguy920]

During grade school and junior high, I saw classmates reading the Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever series. Back then I was getting into fantasy, and was curious, but never got around to checking the books out from the library. Years later in my 20's I decided to go and buy the first trilogy. I never finished the first book after its rape scene. It sickened me beyond belief and gave me chills that this was in my grade school. I did follow up and skimmed through the books, and found the rest of the story what I was able to grasp empty and pointless. Much as this sickened me, it will not change my mind that books should NEVER be banned from libraries, no matter their content. My classmates came out just fine, probably forgetting that lousy story anyway.
As for games that feature playable rape, I am on the fence as to whether they should even be done. Anybody is a fool if they say they never fantasized it. What defines our character is whether we bring those fantasies to reality. Does giving the voluntary act that a game provides bring the fantasy to reality? As someone who has played countless shooters, I would have to say no. Rape is an act even worse than murder, since it destroys a person's mind yet leaves them alive to live through the nightmares and complete loss of trust which destroys friendships and loves. Games featuring playable rape should never have been made, but the cat is out of the bag now, and it is only futility to try to supress it, since that will only form a bad precedent for other games and media. I honestly do not see someone leading a meaningful life with friends and family wanting anything to do with this game, but not all of us lead meaningful lives, and dare I say, will need a release. It would be better if they found another avenue with better rewards for them and society, but not everyone has that luxury.
I guess it may be best to just let the games be, and instead encourage people to look out for their fellow person, and if they are buying such games, make the effort to present a healthier alternative. Give them the choice, don't just take away one of the answers which will not help. It is easier to damn a person than to help bring them to salvation. Don't take the easier path. [/soapbox]

 

[Rajin Cajun]

To be honest, I don't think banning any type of material is ever a good thing.

If you want to talk strictly pragmatically, making such material more restricted doesn't necessarily equate to making rape less likely (if anything, it's possible to have the opposite effect). While it's definitely noteworthy that these games make up such a large portion of the PC gaming market in Japan, it's also interesting to note that Japan has a very low rape rate [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_statistics#UN_Statistics] in relation to most other nations. Until they can show that these games actually contribute to discrimination or criminality, banning them seems premature.

And, of course, this is not to mention that I'm opposed to all kinds of censorship. It may be about rape, but if that's the story they want to tell, I would call that their right. As gross as I may find it, may tastes can't change their desires, and my taboos should not hold power over their behavior.

Although my personal standpoint is that these "games" are massivly badong (bad and wrong), I am still intrested in the opinions of this dear community.

One of my favorite movies ever, and I love you for reminding me of it.

See bolded.

I'm surprised most people ignored this. A country that legalizes "rape games" has the least amount of rape per capita, and a country with one of the highest rape statistics in the world is trying to enforce their laws on them. Perhaps "Equality Now" should look into their own backyard before attacking the foreign market? (Most of these games aren't even able to be sold internationally).

Not saying the game is great or anything, but would you rather people getting their jollies off on video games in the privacy of their own home or would you rather they pay your children a visit?

Ugh you can't even say that about Japan. You are talking a single culture society that is largely xenophobic and comparing it to a multicultural society. Maybe the problem of rape isn't the access to violent video games but multiculturalism in general.

 

[Xshu]

I can't help but think Japan's rape rate is so low because the women there are taught to make less of a big deal out of it when they are sexually harassed. The infamous subway gropings are a good example. While they have warning signs telling women about the gropings, they also ask the women not to raise a fuss if it happens to them. Rape instills an undeserved sense of shame on the victim as it is, and shame in Japan is a bigger deal than it is in the west. I'll bet a lot of women simply don't say anything in the hope that nobody will learn of "their shame"

 

[traceur_]

Seriously these games are a release for this sort of thing, I'd rather give the chance for these people to stay at home raping pixels instead of out in meatspace, raping women.

 

[AveryR]

Yeah I'm going to take the unpopular stance and say they should not ban the creation of simulation rape games. Freedom of speech is a two way road and oppressing another country or shaming a country to oppress itself is worse than any sort of censorship. If Japan truly wants to outlaw and stop the production of games then they should have their own reasons, not because New York and a women's equality group finds a single game distasteful. A single person's or even a group of people's morals has no right to control or manipulate a country's government to ban the production of any video game.

This is just the start, this will be a slippery slope that will cause more adult content from Japan to be outlawed and will hurt Japan financially just because people are "hurt" over a video game.

i couldnt have said it better, tho i dotn think theyve actually outlawed it.

 

[ix_tab]

Good. Really, really good. I cannot tell you how much interactive rape games creep me the fuck out.

 

[zauxz]

Good, though there still will be a huge underground market for this.

Yup, and this will only make it grow.

 

[Sparcrypt]

I am not sorry to see games like this banned.. but at the same time I'm not a hypocrite.

If you can have a game where you are allowed to jump in a car, run over a few dozen people, go into a resteraunt and pull out a SMG and shoot up the population and say "Yeah but that's OK" you really have no grounds to condemn those that want to play a virtualised version of other things that when done in real life are just as sick and wrong.

Again, I think anyone who WANTS to play that kind of game is sick. I really do. But if you want those things banned then I hope you're also out there trying to ban GTA4 and SoF etc etc.

Saying "What? I'm only shooting pixels, it's not a big deal..." then going "OH MY GOD RAPING SOMEONE IN A GAME IS JUST LIKE DOING IT IRL!"? Sorry, you're a hypocrite, 100%. You might not agree, but you can't have censorship just on the things you don't like.

 

[Sylocat]

But games like Manhunt are perfectly okay.