Real Talk: How Xenoblade & Monolithsoft Saved the JRPG! - YoVideogames

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Here's a video I found interesting. I was never that big in to JRPGs aside from a few in the PS1 days, but I did have a respect for their scope, size, and what they tried to accomplish. That said, I don't have the time for them nowadays or even when going in to the HD era. Loss of interests, and just shorter games have more appeal for me.

Matt Simmons of the YoVideogames crew (friends with Maximilliam_Dood who does fighting games) claims that Xenoblade & Monolithsoft saved the JRPG genre when Square and and other Japanese developers or publishers were starting falter or stagnate. I never really knew of the Xeno series until the mid PS2 days. I can see where he is coming from especially when Project Rainfall (to get three JRPGs to releas in the West on the Wii) laid the ground work for future Xeno titles and other JRPGs to make a comeback. Does anyone agree or disagree?
 
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meiam

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I mean... maybe for him but if you take all xenoblade title sales together they barely break the 2 million mark, the first one initial release didn't even break 1 million. I really don't see how a game with such a tiny footprint can be considered to have any kind of impact on the game development community as a whole. Heck from his video it sounds like zelda breath of the wild is the most important game from it's legacy, a decidedly not JRPG game.

Xenoblade also really wasn't a big hit (at least in the west) with JRPG fans when it first release. The nintendo fanboy wouldn't stop talking about it, but most everybody else didn't rave that much about it. It was mostly seen as pattern on FF12 (ie another offline mmorpg) with a millions of tiny quest in large area, definetly didn't feel like some kind of trendsetter.

I also don't think JRPG ever recovered, they stil barely release any (non cellphone) JRPG game every year, at least in the big boy market (there's 20 RPG maker game release on steam everyday but they don't count) compared to most other genra. I think they could make a good comeback if square enix ever got their head unstuck from their own ass and went back to multiple release of mid size game a year rather than massive tech demo every decades.
 
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"Hey guys it's *insert name* with another *insert subject* YouTube video-" UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGH.

After watching the whole thing, he didn't really talk about Xenoblade all that much (And really needed to do a few re-takes on some lines). Honestly, I don't quite agree with him. Meiam above me gave a few good points as to why, but overall, looking at a lot of JRPGs we have now, I don't really see a ton of effect from Xenoblade in their design. It may have been a true and proper JRPG after a ton of large scale failures and games that went in whatever direction they wanted... But to say it saved the entire genre is maybe going a bit overboard
 
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I mean... maybe for him but if you take all xenoblade title sales together they barely break the 2 million mark
He even mentions and something similar halfway in to the video. He mentions the series is still nichem but did leave an impact.
lso don't think JRPG ever recovered, they stil barely release any (non cellphone) JRPG game every year, at least in the big boy market (there's 20 RPG maker game release on steam everyday but they don't count) compared to most other genra.
JRPGs have been doing better this generation than they did during the 360/PS3 era. Especially on Nintendo's console, even their indie games they count. Just because a lot of them aren't AAA, does not mean they have not made a comeback. It just goes to show big companies like Square don't know what they're doing or forgot the most important things. If other developers pick up the slap, so be it. I already know JRPGs aren't as big as they were in the 90s & early 2000s, but they ain't dead in the water as people claimed they were during 7th generation. I've seen more JRPG action from Sony and Nintendo, and even the freaking PC. The only ones not doing anything with it is Microsoft, but we already know why. I don' agree with everything Simmons says, but he definitely got some major points.
 
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But to say it saved the entire genre is maybe going a bit overboard
I agree with you there. It's like that claim people made when certain anime fans were saying Trigger "saved" anime with Kill La Kill. I love KLK, but one studio can't save entire genre or medium with just one show. I don't like all of their productions (Darling and the Franxx). That finally put that saying to rest when that show was not hitting everyone's positive tick boxes. Yet, Xenoblade had some influence. Ironic, because Simmons hates KLK and takes the anime is dead meme 100% and unironically. Yeah, because KLK is the sign of anime being dead, when actually did things to move the medium forward. He judged off the first episode, and did not see any interest in continuing, yet he likes Highschool of The Dead. A show that is actually worse in quality and unfinished due to the author's passing.
 
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This is a myth. In particular, that there was some type of dark age during the late 2000s and early 2010s. Despite titans like Persona flourishing during just those years.


What happened was that the big AAA games were not Jrpgs any more, so to normies who only play something if a game show on tv tells them to, it was as good as there being no Jrpgs.

I've been into Jrpgs since something like 1995 and I never stopped. They never stopped being awesome, either. In the aforementioned year span there were a lot more (really amazing) jrpgs on portable systems. Dragon Quest IX was on the DS (not even the 3ds, just regular DS!) for example and the psp had its own amazing series like Brave Traveler and Crisis Core and KH BBS and the Legend of Heroes Trails in the Sky trilogy and so on. Also you have hidden gems barely anyone knows like Ar Tonelico where they invented a whole new language for them and used it in conjunction with the Japanese language to compose music that was often in both languages simultaneously, with one verse of the fictional language following a verse of Japanese. Just look up ar tonelico music by Kokia on youtube and enjoy for an hour or ten.



Simmons is a reactionary old-school purist who isn't into Jrpgs that aren't what we'd call stereotypically orthodox (think ff4, a basic fantasy setting with cool battles and interesting chars which does the usual routine really well) and part of that is in not giving a fair shot to portable games. Jrpgs always were anime influenced, as well, so due to his old school purism extending to modern anime, he was not into the newer Jrpgs (which still were awesome) due to them being influenced by the anime themes present during the times they were being created, which is why he is ignorant about the greatness of Persona yet still presumes to know all the answers.


I also don't think JRPG ever recovered, they stil barely release any (non cellphone) JRPG game every year, at least in the big boy market (there's 20 RPG maker game release on steam everyday but they don't count) compared to most other genra. I think they could make a good comeback if square enix ever got their head unstuck from their own ass and went back to multiple release of mid size game a year rather than massive tech demo every decades.
No that's inaccurate. The jrpgs didn't "not recover" because there was nothing ever inflicted onto them to recover from. What happened was that the rpg fanbase is roughly steady, whereas a whooooooole bunch more new other people came into gaming in this timespan. Those people don't play Jrpgs, they never did, so proportionally fewer people would be playing Jrpgs after this transpired. It doesn't mean people stopped playing them or they suddenly got bad or anything, and most Jrpgs never had AAA funding to begin with, which is something that still hasn't changed as well.

Jrpgs are a way to tell a good story like a visual novel but also offer tactical gameplay that is deep and engaging. They aren't about high fidelity graphics, they're more about art-style quality. Due to this, you can make a really good Jrpg on a low budget that a game which requires high quality graphics just can't be built with. Due to this, Jrpgs are actually a lot more vibrant and are closer to indie games in the amount of variety they offer in their content than those "big boy" games are.


This is purely a prestige thing basically. Just because there's not many notable top 20 big boy Jrpgs, that doesn't mean there's no good Jrpgs. And because all those new people are way more numerous they get to dictate what gets to be in those 20 spots, no matter WHAT the steady and loyal Jrpg fanbase feels about the games they're experiencing.
 
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Simmons is a reactionary old-school purist who isn't into Jrpgs that aren't what we'd call stereotypical orthodox (think ff4, a basic fantasy setting with cool battles and interesting chars which does the usual routine really well) and part of that is in not giving a fair shot to portable games. Jrpgs always were anime influenced, as well, so due to his old school purism extending to modern anime, he was not into the newer Jrpgs (which still were awesome) due to them being influenced by the anime themes present during the times they were being created, which is why he is ignorant about the greatness of Persona yet still presumes to know all the answers.
This. Also, Simmons usually has a hatred for most newer anime, even if the show in question is good. I am aware of the success Persona series. Especially with 4 & 5. He does mention the success of JRPGs on portables, albeit briefly, but your point still stands. Like you mentioned earlier, his main focus was on the AAA space. But once again, it proves they weren't dead unless all you played were games from Square and few other big ones, and not the medium or smaller developers/publishers. He still had a point about the Japanese having trouble with budgets in the HD era. He's not the only YTber to comment on that either. See any of the Derek's recent videos (formerly Happy Video Game Nerd) on Capcom or Keiji Inafune for that one.
 

meiam

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You keep saying influence... what influence? Xenoblade was very similar to FF12 before it (which itself was extremely influenced by MMO), so you can't really say it influence anything gameplay wise. Outside of nintendo fanboy I rarely if ever hear people talk about xenoblade in general, hell xenogears is mentioned about the same rate as any entry in the xenoblade franchise, and that was over a decade before that and no one is saying it saved JRPG or anything. If you look at other JRPG that release around the same time, most of them outsell xenoblade by a pretty wide margin, with tales Xillia selling well over 1 millions, Ni no Kuni also severly outselling it and even freaking Atelier Totori sold about as well as xenoblade and claiming that saved JRPG would be laughable.

There certainly wasn't any big resurgence of JRPG after it was released, if you compare the wii console generation with the one after you don't really see any big increase in title or anything like that. You so see more semi open world JRPG (like FF15) but you'd be hard press to connect that directly to xenoblade chronicle, it has more to do with open world title in general being popular and like I said FF12 did it before.
 

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To join the chorus, I don't think the jrpg ever really needed saving. Ok yeah, they kind of disappeared from center stage in the AAA sphere in the late 00's and early 10's, as Dreiko said. Possibly because they, like so many Japanese devs, had trouble adapting to the ballooning budgets of HD development, and jrpgs are a fairly niche genre outside of your Final Fantasy's and Kingdom Hearts' to begin with. But there were still quite a few fine jrpgs being made, particularly on handhelds. Several smaller franchises kept trucking along: Namco's Tales, Gust/Tecmo Koie's Atelier, Nihon Falcom's Ys and Legend of Heroes, Atlus' Shin Megami Tensei and a few others.

I'm speaking for myself here, but pretty much up until the end of the PS2 era, Square was the titan of the genre. They made pretty much all the biggest names and many of the best, so much I had come to conflate Square and the genre. But when the HD era rolled around, their output slowed to a trickle, and what they delivered didn't satisfy. Which I feel kind of left a void. I was still interested in jrpgs, but the company I had come to rely on to fill that need no longer could, or at least not enough. But at around the end of the generation, I first learned of this jrpg by some unknown dev called Xenoblade that was supposedly really good. I tracked down a copy, played it, liked it. I also heard of Persona. Supposedly really good. Got a copy of Persona 3, played it on my Phat PS3, liked it. And that's when it clicked that there's more out there than Square.

So I guess yeah, in that sense, Xenoblade kind of helped save the jrpg, at least for me personally.
 
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Ehhhhhhh, Xenoblade "saving" JRPGs is pretty hyperbolic; if anything it just held the line until Japanese gaming recovered in 2017. The thing about the JRPG going into decline had more to do with the mindset of the 7th console generation. During that era you had Western companies finally catching up to Japanese ones on the development side, usually by throwing obscene amounts of money and people at development cycles due to how HD bumped up costs which Japan struggled with due to differences in available resources as well as the fact that Japan was becoming more of a portable-centric market with the DS and PSP. There were tons of great RPGs on the DS and PSP, but because they were on portable systems the more snobbish and elitist sectors of gaming (both in the audience and press) turned their nose up at it. And it wasn't just with RPGs; Japanese gaming in general was looked down upon as being too weird and foreign, leading to a bunch of really uncomfortable dogwhistling straight out of the Japanophobic 1980s. It also didn't help that this coincided with the crash of the anime market in North America at the time with licensors like Geneon and Bandai's North American arms closing up shop followed shortly by ADV Films (this alone is something that could warrant its own thread). The idea was that all that weird, yucky Japanese influence was finally out of videogames and things were now going be a golden age of Western dominance.

As for RPGs themselves, a lot of it had more to do with people only being familiar with Square and Final Fantasy more than anything. Post-2000, Square was beginning to show problems mostly due to an exodus of talent. Co-founder Sakaguchi left due to Spirits Within bombing, Tetsuya Takahashi had left to form Monolith Soft and the coming years wouldn't be any kinder. Square basically had no real mentors around to help guide the company, instead being left to people like Yoshinori Kitase and Tetsuya Nomura who didn't really seem to know what to do. They really just seemed to want to keep doing FFVII over and over again and it led to a lot of problems. Yasumi Matsuno (who had been picked by Sakaguchi himself) was directing FFXII and trying to do his own thing by amping up the political aspects, but found himself dogged by executives who were scared shitless of pissing people off because Matsuno is about as subtle as a sledgehammer when it comes to calling people out. He decided he wasn't going to give himself a mental breakdown to satisfy cowards so he left the company and is to this day working with his own idea factory. After that the Ivalice setting was essentially dead as no one at Square wants to work on the setting without him. FFXIII only exacerbated the problem because of its reception. A lot of it was indeed unfair, but also XIII is a pretty middling game. And XIII's director, Motomu Toriyama, couldn't keep it to just one game. For some reason Square kept trying to push him as the next golden boy, letting him not only make two sequels to FFXIII but allowing him to write entries in the Front Mission (Front Mission Evolved) and Parasite Eve (The 3rd Birthday) franchises, entries so bad they basically killed their respective franchises (3rd Birthday in particular is one creepy game). The entire expanded universe for XIII also went nowhere with its two sequels being received less and less favorably in reviews and sales. They even had to switch Agito XIII to Type-Zero and Vs XIII became XV due to how toxic the XIII brand became and Toriyama was relegated to the mobile division until he was allowed to co-direct the FFVII Remake for some reason.

Then came the REAL blow. XIII was divisive, but had its fans. XIV's initial launch on the other hand was a complete disaster that has no fans and was one of the biggest losses in Square's history. It led to the departure of Squaresoft co-founder Hiromichi Tanaka and Dragon Quest X veteran Naoki Yoshida was left to salvage things. So, biggest RPG maker in Japan has gone into its dark age, no one knows what the hell they're doing, Western gaming is making money hand over fist, and Mega Man producer Keiji Inafune is saying "Japan is over", so the RPG is dead.

But, the problem is, even at the time that idea was hyperbolic and shallow-minded. RPGs were not kept to just one company. Square's failures created a vacuum, one that had many people willing to fill that void. And the RPG was never some static, rigid genre as shown since its inception. No, what happened was other companies stepped up and became the standard bearers. Atlus began it with bringing back its Persona series, pumping up its social aspects and doubling down on its Japanese flourish. Bandai-Namco spearheaded FromSoft's Dark Souls series which took things in a dark fantasy meets survival horror vibe. Even Square had successes with stuff like Bravely Default. And when Intelligent Systems made one last hurrah with Fire Emblem Awakening in 2012 it ended up being the spark the franchise needed to revitalize and reinvent itself, being even more stylized and really pumping up the social simulator aspects. The RPG was going nowhere, it was just overshadowed by more spectacle-driven titles with overly big marketing budgets.

And cracks had been showing for awhile. The thing is, the "just throw money and people at it" approach was never going to work forever. The problem of the industry in the West were beginning to show. Studio closures were happening left and right, franchise fatigue was setting in, employee burnout was a common concern, and companies started becoming less and less interested in things that weren't guaranteed multi-million sellers. Meanwhile, all those attempts to cater to Western markets by Japanese companies flopped. Even by this point Naoki Yoshida had pulled off the comeback of the century with FFXIV being completely revamped from the ground up in two years and becoming such a cash cow for Square-Enix that he can basically do anything he wants now (even getting Yasumi Matsuno to write storylines for the game because Yoshida is a huge fan of his). Japanese gaming turned out to be pretty resilient with RPGs slowly working their way back after a lot of Western RPG devs like Bioware began to falter. It was also helped by the fact that a second anime boom began to happen with licensors beginning to switch over streaming services like Crunchyroll and simuldubs becoming more common as time went on. Heck, one of the biggest hits in anime was the long-awaited adaptation of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure, an unapologetically Japanese series.

And in 2017 things came to a head. Not only did it have the long-awaited arrival of Persona 5, but also Nier: Automata, Yakuza 0 and Kiwami, Nioh, and of course the motherfucking Switch which had THREE games that were basically GOTY contenders with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2 as well as other titles like Fire Emblem: Warriors, Splatoon 2, and a ton of enhanced ports of titles like Pokken and Mario Kart 8. It was like Japan came roaring back to say "The master is back, you fucking amateurs." And that hasn't really stopped what with Japanese games being on equal footing with the West while a lot of Western companies are now either drunkenly stumbling around trying to figure out what to do with themselves or taking cues from Japan. People who came of age during the Anime Boom now had significant influence due to either buying power or being in the industry themselves. Visual novels finally carved out a devoted niche in gaming due to titles like Zero Escape. The decade-long Fighting Game Boom has never stopped with EVO being bigger than ever with robust titles like Street Fighter, Tekken, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Granblue Fantasy, The King of Fighter XIV, Samurai Shodown, Granblue Fantasy VS, Blazblue, Guilty Gear, and Soulcalibur VI. The JRPG never needed saving because it was always there and never going away. People who prematurely sang its death knell did so either out of ignorance or bad faith. Japan retook its crown and frankly it's probably going to be a long while until it gives it up.
 
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I'm only a few songs in and this is unlike anything I've ever heard of. I'm instantly floored, wow
Yeah, it's a brand new language invented for the ar tonelico and ar nosurge series turned into tribal sounding music with jpop influences during the time Jrpgs were in need of "saving" XD.



Btw, the songs have plot relevance too, not only the lyrics mean things important to what's transpiring when they are sung, they also are a form of magical changing through which they manifest various effects. You use most of those in combat to charge your big spells.

Then you also have big things like this signaling important moments (Shikata Akiko composed and sang this one, she composes a lot of these herself, speaks and sings professionally in chinese and japanese so you can see how much talent she has):


Then you have other songs sung almost all in the Hymnos language too:

Sounds somewhat ethereal and captivating.


Also the game series itself is in big part about diving in the chars' subconscious and resolving problems they have that manifest in insane dreamworld or nightmare scenarios, really heady and fun concepts, which unlocks those various song magics, it's kinda like the dungeons from persona 4 but more, much more out there crazy. In ar nosurge is breaks the fourth wall to the point where you have a literal argument with one of the characters during one of those sequences, blaming you for all those other versions of themselves that went on to not be saved every time you loaded back when you made a wrong dialogue choice and so on. Super trippy stuff haha.


But yeah, nobody knows about these games but everyone knows of Atelier and both are from the same maker, breaks your heart haha. (not that Atelier is bad but it's nowhere near this unique lol)
 
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meiam

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I'm only a few songs in and this is unlike anything I've ever heard of. I'm instantly floored, wow
Sadly the games are mostly fan service vehicle, with some pretty creepy "crystal insertion" where the guy insert crystal in girl while they moaned suggestively. I'm really happy visual novel took off since that's where most of this stuff is now. Otherwise its pretty standard story trope with some interesting gameplay choice but sadly too easy so you don't ever really have to bother learning how to use the systems.
 

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The problem is JRPGs evolve at a snail's pace. I played FFVI on SNES and didn't care for it and then tried FFX on PS2 to find out in 2 generations the gameplay hasn't changed and got worse in a few places. Does any JRPG even have any kind of systemic elements yet? Like say a fire spell doing more than just "fire" damage and actually affecting the battlefield. Now a lot of JRPGs are obsessed with trying to mix and match action/real-time elements with turn-based elements and it just doesn't work.
 

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Sadly the games are mostly fan service vehicle, with some pretty creepy "crystal insertion" where the guy insert crystal in girl while they moaned suggestively. I'm really happy visual novel took off since that's where most of this stuff is now. Otherwise its pretty standard story trope with some interesting gameplay choice but sadly too easy so you don't ever really have to bother learning how to use the systems.
That's just Ar Tonelico 3 you're describing. They all have their own thing going on (for example in at2 the crystals are used as bath oils and bath salts and you get to observe the chars bathing and having unique conversations depending on where you place them in the bathtub, lots of comedic or flavorful banter ensues haha). But yeah they are a Jrpg like Persona so you do have a dating sim aspect. The fanservice is most definitely NOT what they're mostly about. They're mostly about solving the inner psychological trauma that haunts the heroines and through that saving the world with the power of magical songs that your help unlocks in them. There is a similar dating sim thing like in persona and you of course will find a lot of anime tropes associated with it. In ar tonelico 3 that you're describing the planet is about to collapse and you strive to figure out how to sing a magic that revitalizes it. It has a lot of trials and tribulations since due to the aforementioned dream sequences you get to experience the world as it was before the collapse through relieving the memories one (really long lived) character had from that period in dream form, you occupying the "role" of one of the people from her memories. It gets very involved since your actions can go against her actual recollection of what the role you occupy did and help her move beyond her trauma.

There also is a lot of fanservice, additionally. It's a shallow thing to just focus at that and ignore anything else the game has going for it though. The serious moments all hit super hard and the epic moments give you goosebumps. The fact that you also get to see some fanservice doesn't negate all that.
 
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Here's a video I found interesting. I was never that big in to JRPGs aside from a few in the PS1 daysm but I did have a respect for their scope, size, and what they tried to accomplish. That said, I don't have the time for them nowadays or even when going in to the HD era. Loss of interests, and just shorter games have more appeal for me.

Matt Simons of the YoVideogames crew (friends with Maximilliam_Dood who does fighting games) claims that Xenoblade & Monolithsoft saved the JRPG genre when Square and and othet Japanese developers or publishers were starting falter or stagnate. I never really knew of the Xeno series until the mid PS2 days. I can see where is coming froml especially when Project Rainfall (to get three JRPGs to releas in the West on the Wii) laid the ground work for future Xeno titles and other JRPGs to make a comeback. Does anyone agree or disagree?

Gonna disagree heavily. Frankly I think the Xenoblade games are terrible, but that isn't the point here.

While Square was making poor JRPGS, many other companies where pumping out great ones.

Level 5 for example made Rogue Galaxy which was awesome, then they went one to make the Ni NoKun Ni games. The first released less than 1 year after Xenoblade chronicles.

What about Atlus and the Shin Megami games, Persona alone is an amazing series? Persona 4 releasing a year before Xenoblade, with Golden releasing the same year.

Lost Odyssey came out 2 years before Xenoblade.

Pokemon games released on both sides of Xenoblade as well.

What stagnation are they talking about? FF12 and 13? Sure ok. But there are way most developers of JRPG's than just Square, so that seems like a narrow viewpoint to make.

Quite honestly i have no idea what the hell Yovideogames is talking about here. Japan has never abandoned consoles, nor did they ever abandon the JRPG. They list only a couple of games that they personally didn't like, but that is in no way indicative of the JRPG scene as a whole. Unless they are referring to Xenoblade saving JRPG's for them personally. Because if they are speaking on a personal level, then fine i guess.
 
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CriticalGaming

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And in 2017 things came to a head. Not only did it have the long-awaited arrival of Persona 5, but also Nier: Automata, Yakuza 0 and Kiwami, Nioh, and of course the motherfucking Switch which had THREE games that were basically GOTY contenders with The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild, Super Mario Odyssey, and Xenoblade 2 as well as other titles like Fire Emblem: Warriors, Splatoon 2, and a ton of enhanced ports of titles like Pokken and Mario Kart 8. It was like Japan came roaring back to say "The master is back, you fucking amateurs." And that hasn't really stopped what with Japanese games being on equal footing with the West while a lot of Western companies are now either drunkenly stumbling around trying to figure out what to do with themselves or taking cues from Japan. People who came of age during the Anime Boom now had significant influence due to either buying power or being in the industry themselves. Visual novels finally carved out a devoted niche in gaming due to titles like Zero Escape. The decade-long Fighting Game Boom has never stopped with EVO being bigger than ever with robust titles like Street Fighter, Tekken, Dragon Ball FighterZ, Granblue Fantasy, The King of Fighter XIV, Samurai Shodown, Granblue Fantasy VS, Blazblue, Guilty Gear, and Soulcalibur VI. The JRPG never needed saving because it was always there and never going away. People who prematurely sang its death knell did so either out of ignorance or bad faith. Japan retook its crown and frankly it's probably going to be a long while until it gives it up.
I think overall Japan produces the best games out of any other game developing region in the world. Mostly because they do one thing differently than all other development studios.

They experiment.

Whether it's art style, gameplay, or storytelling, the Japanese are always trying something new. They, for whatever reason, are never afraid to try some shit and see if people like it. Compare that to American developers who produce the same bullshit over and over because they won't fix something that isn't broken.

Japan isn't content to sit and do the same thing over and over. And sometimes that's a problem as we've seen in the Final Fantasy series. They've been constantly trying to mess around with how a battle system in an RPG can work, and it's very hit or miss. Hell if you look at some of the other JRPG games you'll find all kinds of crazy battle mechanics, from the Tales Games, to the Hyperneptunia games....to even Xenoblade.

Yet despite the failures, Japan's approach has consistantly allowed to to create games that are fantastic. Sometimes the crazy shit just works, games like Nier, and the Yakuza series.

Very few series outside of a select few end up being carbon copies. Nintendo being the worse culprit here, but even then each Mario game plays with themes and tweak gameplay enough that people never feel ripped off by them. Nintendo sticks to their brand to a fault, but the games remain consistant because of that, even if they might get a little boring.

Compare that to the latest Call of Duty game and you can't tell the difference between the games a lot of the time. And don't even get started with sports games.
 

Elvis Starburst

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Spot on. Funny enough, a lot of that is why I haven't gotten a Xbox in recent years. The kind of games that come out for it simply aren't like the ones you find that Japan produces for Sony or Nintendo. The demographic there doesn't go for Microsoft and it shows in sales and development. Good JRPGs on Microsoft's platforms are few and far between.

There's a reason why JRPGs are my fave genre. You find so many unique experiences in them, either in gameplay, story, art direction, music, etc. A lot of them have the same tropes, but the way they use them can be phenomenal. Even when it's not JRPGs, Japanese developed titles are just fun in a way that's hard for me to find in Western developed studios. Personally, at least. Obviously sales of Western developed games show that's not the case for everyone
 

meiam

Elite Member
Dec 9, 2010
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That's just Ar Tonelico 3 you're describing. They all have their own thing going on (for example in at2 the crystals are used as bath oils and bath salts and you get to observe the chars bathing and having unique conversations depending on where you place them in the bathtub, lots of comedic or flavorful banter ensues haha). But yeah they are a Jrpg like Persona so you do have a dating sim aspect. The fanservice is most definitely NOT what they're mostly about. They're mostly about solving the inner psychological trauma that haunts the heroines and through that saving the world with the power of magical songs that your help unlocks in them. There is a similar dating sim thing like in persona and you of course will find a lot of anime tropes associated with it. In ar tonelico 3 that you're describing the planet is about to collapse and you strive to figure out how to sing a magic that revitalizes it. It has a lot of trials and tribulations since due to the aforementioned dream sequences you get to experience the world as it was before the collapse through relieving the memories one (really long lived) character had from that period in dream form, you occupying the "role" of one of the people from her memories. It gets very involved since your actions can go against her actual recollection of what the role you occupy did and help her move beyond her trauma.

There also is a lot of fanservice, additionally. It's a shallow thing to just focus at that and ignore anything else the game has going for it though. The serious moments all hit super hard and the epic moments give you goosebumps. The fact that you also get to see some fanservice doesn't negate all that.
Nah it was in all of them:


Maybe the serious scene could have worked, but having the conversation start with the character literally going "Oh wow, it's so big, and I have to put in there!?" kinda deflate any potential drama that could arise.
 

Elvis Starburst

Unprofessional Rant Artist
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Aug 9, 2011
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Well, I cranked the whole thing. There's some songs that get a little boring, but when it gets good, it gets really good. I looked at the characters in the game while I was listening, and now I have great new character ref and music material for my D&D campaign. Thanks!