Review and Essay: the Gamecube Controller

Jumplion

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A very well written rant/essay, but I'm still going to argue for the sake of arguing.

I do like the GC controller much better than the Wiimote (which is a step back to NES era when you turn it sideways) but I prefer the DualShock.

Now that that's out of the way, I think that the GC controller is more suited for button mashing more than anything as all of the buttons are extremely close to each other and as you said it is easy to press them because of hte sizes.

However, with the PS controllers, each button is at equal distance (give or take the X+Triangle and O+Square, but any developer that uses that combination is stupid) and thus it is very hard to accidentally press a different button unless you don't know what button you're going to press. This alows for more precice and careful presses. However, on the GC controler, the buttons arn't equally placed or sized for that matter. You want to press B but you're all the way at X? Well, get over there! Want to press Y but your thumb is on the C stick? Well you're screwed unless you have lightning reflexes. This is why (I think) that many games use the left analog stick as the main purpose while the right hand uses actions.

And obviuously if you bring FPSs into this and if you want to make an action but the knife button is the O button and your right hand is on the analog stick, then you'd already have to be aiming at the person and hit O as quick as you can so that's where the PS and GC controllers are similar.

But it was a pretty good "essay" though i don't agree with it fully, but i'm sure that my answer wasn't any help either.
 

Jumplion

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I'd just like to emphasize j-e-f-f-e-r-s-'s point, when I was learning how to use the GC controller, it took FOREVER for me to learn how to use the Z button because I had no idea if i was pressing it or not.
 

tiredinnuendo

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My biggest problem with the GC controller is the heft. I have a very strong grip and tend to squeeze on the controller a bit when I'm into the game I'm playing (you know how it is, the harder you mash the button down, the faster the signal gets to the system... or something). The GC controller feels like a poorly assembled toy, and I'm always worried that I'm going to break it.

Coming from the company that brought us the original NES controller, which was designed to be thrown against the wall several times a day, this is a doubly heinous crime.

- J
 

windfish

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
The GC pad has no such logic. Everything feels like its been placed by a trembling five year old with both his eyes closed. Why are the A and B buttons round, but the X and Y jellybean shaped? Why does the left analogue stick have a large nub, and the right a small one?
That's some strong language there. Anyway, the differences in what happens with various buttons IS reflected on the screen, and also by what the thumb feels. I'm fully aware it LOOKS weird, but it has been in my experience extremely ergonomic. While the cross-shape of the S and the Dual-shock (and the SNES and DS) puts all the buttons there in as a set of equals, the GC also puts them there, in easy positions, which requires no re-positioning of the thumb. If you put your thumb over A, every button is easily pressed with a different side of the thumb. It's a refreshing design philosophy.

The GC is not needlessly complex - it's incredibly simple. Nintendo tried something new in 2001 which worked amazingly well for me. It was just a little strange.

I do acknowledge several points here -

I am terrible at Halo. Since Halo was the only game (tongue in cheek) on the XBox for a long, long time, I never got into the system. I have played the 360 on several occasions, and find the controller to be very intelligent and usable. Naturally, as a creature of habit, I like the GC better, and stand by my aforementioned reasons. I also submit that for FPSes, the Wii blows every non-keyboard interface clear out of the water. You like the S better for your reasons. What I meant by the "open your mind" comment is that it does no good to approach the Gamecube controller, and trying to make it a PS controller, or an S. I heard a rather hilarious reviewer on Gametrailers say that he kept putting the nunchuck and the Wii Remote together, trying to "make a controller out of it." It's the same principle. He missed the point. I'm simply arguing that when a step back has been taken, the placement of the buttons on the GC was not random, but in fact very, very precise. It seems strange if you expect it to be just like an S or a Dual-shock, but from a pure engineering standpoint, it's a re-invention. Not perfect, but a step in the right direction.

I argue that the flow between the buttons on a GC is very fluid - just not the same kind of fluidity that one can achieve by practicing with a more conventional design.

We here are 2 economists. I'm glad you liked my essay. Your points are all well-expressed, as well. We can agree to disagree.


Jumplion said:
A very well written rant/essay, but I'm still going to argue for the sake of arguing.

I do like the GC controller much better than the Wiimote (which is a step back to NES era when you turn it sideways) but I prefer the DualShock.

Now that that's out of the way, I think that the GC controller is more suited for button mashing more than anything as all of the buttons are extremely close to each other and as you said it is easy to press them because of hte sizes.

However, with the PS controllers, each button is at equal distance (give or take the X+Triangle and O+Square, but any developer that uses that combination is stupid) and thus it is very hard to accidentally press a different button unless you don't know what button you're going to press. This alows for more precice and careful presses. However, on the GC controler, the buttons arn't equally placed or sized for that matter. You want to press B but you're all the way at X? Well, get over there! Want to press Y but your thumb is on the C stick? Well you're screwed unless you have lightning reflexes. This is why (I think) that many games use the left analog stick as the main purpose while the right hand uses actions.

And obviuously if you bring FPSs into this and if you want to make an action but the knife button is the O button and your right hand is on the analog stick, then you'd already have to be aiming at the person and hit O as quick as you can so that's where the PS and GC controllers are similar.

But it was a pretty good "essay" though i don't agree with it fully, but i'm sure that my answer wasn't any help either.
Thanks for your response. First off, I don't "rant." Second, one is just as screwed if he wishes to jump from Triangle to the Right Analogue. Third, I suppose I just straight-up disagree with "However, on the GC controler, the buttons arn't equally placed or sized for that matter," but that'll just have to be filed under opinion (we both have'em,) and habit (yours for PS, mine for GC), since I spent most of my time in the above essay arguing that the buttons on the GC ARE perfectly placed for careful and precise presses. Fourth, the word "button mashing" is in general a dangerous accusation on a gaming forum, (usually used as fanboy bait), but I'll try to respond civilly:

Mash is the right word for the "A" button. You hit it with the joint of your thumb, a downward mashing motion. The "B" button is struck with the tip of your thumb. The X and Y are hit with quick there-and-back-again (A nice Holiday) motion. In the position most PS games require, South takes the role of A, and West takes B. The GC simply acknowledges this position and motion, and moves the buttons to an easier configuration for that motion, allowing the position of the button and way of hitting it to reflect its respective tasks.

Again, I reiterate my 2 Economists theory. Everyone here has made good points, and we may even all be right.
 

fix-the-spade

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noob stick?

Never heard that one before, maybe you just didn't think about the possibilities it offers.
 

Jumplion

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windfish said:
Jumplion said:
A very well written rant/essay, but I'm still going to argue for the sake of arguing.

I do like the GC controller much better than the Wiimote (which is a step back to NES era when you turn it sideways) but I prefer the DualShock.

Now that that's out of the way, I think that the GC controller is more suited for button mashing more than anything as all of the buttons are extremely close to each other and as you said it is easy to press them because of hte sizes.

However, with the PS controllers, each button is at equal distance (give or take the X+Triangle and O+Square, but any developer that uses that combination is stupid) and thus it is very hard to accidentally press a different button unless you don't know what button you're going to press. This alows for more precice and careful presses. However, on the GC controler, the buttons arn't equally placed or sized for that matter. You want to press B but you're all the way at X? Well, get over there! Want to press Y but your thumb is on the C stick? Well you're screwed unless you have lightning reflexes. This is why (I think) that many games use the left analog stick as the main purpose while the right hand uses actions.

And obviuously if you bring FPSs into this and if you want to make an action but the knife button is the O button and your right hand is on the analog stick, then you'd already have to be aiming at the person and hit O as quick as you can so that's where the PS and GC controllers are similar.

But it was a pretty good "essay" though i don't agree with it fully, but i'm sure that my answer wasn't any help either.
Thanks for your response. First off, I don't "rant." Second, one is just as screwed if he wishes to jump from Triangle to the Right Analogue. Third, I suppose I just straight-up disagree with "However, on the GC controler, the buttons arn't equally placed or sized for that matter," but that'll just have to be filed under opinion (we both have'em,) and habit (yours for PS, mine for GC), since I spent most of my time in the above essay arguing that the buttons on the GC ARE perfectly placed for careful and precise presses. Fourth, the word "button mashing" is in general a dangerous accusation on a gaming forum, (usually used as fanboy bait), but I'll try to respond civilly:

Mash is the right word for the "A" button. You hit it with the joint of your thumb, a downward mashing motion. The "B" button is struck with the tip of your thumb. The X and Y are hit with quick there-and-back-again (A nice Holiday) motion. In the position most PS games require, South takes the role of A, and West takes B. The GC simply acknowledges this position and motion, and moves the buttons to an easier configuration for that motion, allowing the position of the button and way of hitting it to reflect its respective tasks.

Again, I reiterate my 2 Economists theory. Everyone here has made good points, and we may even all be right.
I'm positive I contradicted myself the whole entire time i posted that response.

But part of that "Buttons equal distance" part with the PS controler has to do with how I've never played an FPS on my PS2 controller, so most of the time the right analog stick controled the camera and once I got it itno a comfortable position I was prepared to use the "action buttons". So, I'm positive that Kingdom Hearts would be horrible on a GC controler.

For me, I find the button placement on the GC controller for ANY actual game is pretty weird. I'm playing Harvest Moon, and I just can't shake the feeling that if I was holding a PS controller, I would know exactly where the damn X button was. Since both the Y and X buttons are gray I need to look at the button to see which one is which. While on the PS controller, every button is the same size and shape, but there is a difinitive symbol and color on each of those buttons. Since every button is the same distance and each button has it's own memorable symbol, I know immidiately what i'm going to press with almost no hassle.

And what happens if you find the X button more comfortable to press than the A button? If you reconfigure the controlls (like you can in SSBB) then you have to relearn everything again while in the PS controler, you just need to switch buttons and it's much easier to relearn because of the equality of the buttons.

It all comes down to personal preference though, and I like the PS controler the best because it's easy to hold and easy to use.
 

TheKbob

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What I feel is the Gamecube controller signifies Nintendo's decent into what it is today. Being a Nintendo fan, you must surely feel a bit jaded towards the direction the Big N is heading and if you have no idea what I mean, then take a look at the last E3, where Animal Crossing was thought to appease the core Nintendo crowd.

Yah,... Right. (Aside: At least they confirmed Pikmen 3)

Anyways, the Gamecube controller, while you view points seem valid, is one of the least simplistic controllers to use. Looking at the industry standards, it's far from the norm. If it were as great as you imply, the PS3 and Xbox 360 would have adapted (read: Stolen, in fanboy lingo) and used. I would even say the Wiimote is somewhat of a failure, so far, in terms of usage. Very few games use it's functionality well (RE4, Boom Blox, Wii Sports) and the fact Nintendo needs to package in yet another plastic doo-hickey add-on to make it what it should have been should be a red flag for everyone, fans included. The Aiming function is great for slower shooters like RE4, but for FPS, the control pad standard of slammin' sticks is still superior. There may be better aim, but you will not have the same turn speed, which if anyone is remotely aware of Halo and other shooters, turn speed and make or break any conflict. Add in the fact of it's awkard holding angle...

Well this is about the Gamecube controller, no? As someone with larger hand, it's absolutely useless. While I give credit to the wavebird for what it is, the lack of rumble was also a very, very sad move. The lay out is quite simply goofy, with mushy triggers, the "never would anyone use it but sadistic developers" z-button, and the counter-intuitive button layout centered around the giant "Win" button. Couple that with something you forgot, the world's shortest cable (S Controller = 9.8ft, Gamecube = 6ft). making the wavebird even more "wanted".

I consider the following the most comfortable controller and best to use:

1) Xbox 360
2) Logitech Xbox Wireless Pad
3) Xbox S Controller
4) Sega Saturn Nights Controller


I would argue that for sheer comfort, ease of access to all buttons, and best layout is the Xbox 360 controller. I cannot stand Dual Shocks as they are too small and the Sixaxis turned me quite off (no rumble, crap blutooth, no replacable batteries...) and the offset left stick of the Xbox design reflect the fact that analog control is now a standard in todays games. Yes, the D-pad blows, but the C-stick on the Gamecube controller is the WORST with a hex shape making any sort of smooth camera usage a pain in ... Makes me wonder that RE4 plays the way it does because they wanted to get out the idea of using that blasted thing.

It sounds like you have stuck to have you have used the most, which is fine. It's all a comfort issue and that is always opinionated, but I would dare you to search the internet for various sites top controller lists and you will always see the 360 somewhere on that list and near the top.
 

windfish

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TheKbob said:
What I feel is the Gamecube controller signifies Nintendo's decent into what it is today. Being a Nintendo fan, you must surely feel a bit jaded towards the direction the Big N is heading and if you have no idea what I mean, then take a look at the last E3, where Animal Crossing was thought to appease the core Nintendo crowd.
Like all die-hard Nintendo fans, I've felt more than a little ignored, betrayed, and insulted at the last 2 E3s. But to be fair, a Zelda, Mario, and (excellent but ignored) Metroid have all been released in the last few years for the Wii, and considering the huge development cycles that go titles like that, we're in for a long wait until they have something to show again. Until then, we have to wait for third parties to learn how the hell to program for the Wii, which is not helped by Nintendo announcing WiiMotion+ out of the blue. It's just a real disappointment that they couldn't even ANNOUNCE a Kid Icarus or any of the other First or First-and-a-half party games, choosing instead to announce that "yeah, that's our whole lineup until Christmas. Buy this game instead for you mom. And keep playing Mario Kart (as if that was any good anyway)"

I'm holding out, though. The hardcore Wii games exist. There are probably only ten of them. We'll just have to wait for more.

I only partially agree with your point that the GC marks the start of Nintendo's "descent". Nintendo's always been about simplicity and usability, and the GC is simply the evolution of the N64 controller. It may have been partially the controller, or partially the lunch-box shape, that made the good third-parties ignore Nintendo last generation. But a huge factor was the fear that Nintendo's first-party games would squeeze out the third-party's shelf-space, and thus wouldn't sell well. Thus, Nintendo is a victim of its own success, and had to turn to other audiences outside their core, and outside the fans of the other systems.
 

Jhereg42

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Good review. I still love my Wavebird, and you pointed out why.

That being said, I presently am very fond of the PS3 and 360 controllers. With the last gen consoles this was an honest debate, but all three companies have managed to make their controllers fit the games they are producing quite well.
 

Ago Iterum

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j-e-f-f-e-r-s said:
When playing Nightfire, I am already faced with one problem when my opponent is filling me full of lead. I have to look down and fumble around to find the jump button.
Well now you're just splitting hairs to get your point across. That isn't a design flaw of the GC controller, that's your inexperience with it. I was, and still am an avid fan of 007 Nightfire, and my choice of platform was the Gamecube. I had a PS2, but still chose the Gamecube version, as the control method is superb. And after 10 minutes or so of playing, I never had to 'look down at the controller' because once you've pressed the Y button to jump, unless you have a severe mental handicap, you will remember that it is just slightly north of the main A button. The giant green action button acts as a main hub, it is the centre of the face buttons and it makes you feel completely in control. The Playstation buttons are all the same shape and size, and I was always mistaking one button for another. The GC controller may not be a looker, but it's so much more practical than the cold, Dull dualshock.
 

stompy

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I thought you wrote quite well windfish.

As for the content, I've never used a GC controller before, so I can't comment. What I can say though is that I think the Xbox 360 controller is my favourite, simply because I feel it more comfortable.

Still, can't wait for your next one.
 

Gamer137

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That was a very good essay. I never thought of the GC controler that way. Although I do disagree about the GC controller being the best. I actually prefer the 360 controler for classic controlers, but I tie it with the Wiimote if you want to include that(not just because of the motion sensor, but because it upgraded from the GC in terms of traditional gameplay. Metroid Prime 3 had the best controls of the trilogy).
 

tamla

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A controller is a controller at the end of the day, it is what you make of it. For me, it's relatively comfortable to use, and I like the clicking sound that the trigger buttons make, and the clunky movement of the C-stick. My only major gripes are the colour-scheme, and the overly large A button which means that X, Y, and Z are a bit fiddly for me to use.

To be brutally honest, all new controllers are nowhere near as attractive or user-friendly as the controllers of old. Small, sleek, compact, 2 buttons and a D-pad - all you need.
 

SulfuricDonut

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I found that the gamecube's controller was the thing that made me hate that console the most. Nintendo repeatedly makes the mistake of an 8 direction joystick (having the octagonal cover around it) which makes it nearly impossible to accurately judge any other direction that you try to go in. I liked the big A button, however I hated that they made all the other ones small to accommodate it. I also hate the clicky buttons, and the overall clunky shape of the controller did not fit my hands.
 

chronobreak

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Great review, and I like how you contrasted and compared to other popular controllers. You didn't mention L3 or R3 though :)
 

AdamAK

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The Gamecube controller fits my hands perfectly. It was the first console I had ever bought, and I had previously only played on the Dreamcast, and during my first playing session of Metroid Prime - which was my very first Gamecube game - I never looked down to find any buttons. I have also tried the Xbox controller, and it took me quite some time to get used to it. The buttons were placed a bit inconveniently, and the controller was generally too large for my hands. After a couple of hours I didn't have too many problems with it any more though.
In contrast, I found the PS2 controller aweful. It's way too small for me, there are far too many buttons and every button feels the same. It felt extremely awkward to me when playing games on that console, and it's one of the reasons why I never purchased one, as it would be quite unintuitive to play games.

Anyhow, nice review/essay. I agree with what you have said.
 

VoltySquirrel

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I never got used to the GC controller. I found it to be very abnormal overall. I was spoiled from the comfortable Controller S (Small Xbox Pad) and the newer 360 pad. I never got lost on Playstation and Xbox controllers, yet I always hit the wrong face button on the GC controller. So, I have to disagree with you, 100%.