Review: Final Fantasy XIII

Dakeyras-Way

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Warachia said:
Slycne said:
Warachia said:
ALL FF GAMES ARE LINEAR. Get that through your thick skulls.
And if linearity was a black and white issue your statement might have merit. This might come as a surprising reveal, but a grey scale exists between total freedom and walking down a a single hallway. XIII leans towards the single hallway, where as in the past Final Fantasy games have existed somewhere in the center leaning towards linear. If you can't see that then I would recommend examining the thickness of the your own skull first.
I find it extremely sad that many cannot examine the old to understand the new. If you look at older FF games, (the ones I'm using are 1,2,4,5,7, and 9) they are just as linear, you can wander off the path to a hidden treasure chest, but that is all that is waiting for you. you cannot influence anything, aside from names, equipment and combat, and all of these ff games have mainly only 1 corridor you follow through to make it to the end of the stage. Those are past FF games, and I would like to know what you werwe expecting if not more of the same.

By the way, I do like FF games, but mainly for their storytelling and enviroments.
*Jaw drops* BUH???

FFVII actually had a free world which you could run around and go into any kind of building that you could see (well just about) i mean you could go into towns and wander around for quite a while..

And as for your other examples they too had free worlds (ie the world map) where you could wander to your hearts desire.. If you wanted to walk all the way back to the first town for whatever reason you could!
 

Warachia

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John Funk said:
Warachia said:
ALL FF GAMES ARE LINEAR. Get that through your thick skulls.
This game is extremely linear even by Final Fantasy standards. Get that through yours. :p

Even in FFX, arguably the most linear other than this, you could still explore; there were still towns, there were still different pathways to go down.
but exploration was all you could do, even in past games you finished a crypt/level/dungeon/palace by following one corridor down one path, with only extra monster encounters and chests for you if you left the path. Sort of like the game The Path. You could not influence the story, change characters, or find alternate routes around game scenarios (other than there is a boulder in the way). This is why I do not understand why people expect FF13 to be anything BUT linear, and i do apologize if all you meant was that you wanted some form of exploration and I misheard.
 

Chipperz

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John Funk said:
Yeah, fights take longer but they're also safer.

Buffs and debuffs can actually REALLY boost your damage output/survivability. On the final bosses, stick DeProtect and DeShell on them, with Faith/Bravery/Haste/Protect/Shell/Vigilance on your guys? RAV/RAV/RAV gets them staggered in no time, then COM/RAV/COM (that was my setup with Light/Vanille/Sazh, respectively) once they're staggered to dish out the pain? It does a *ton* of damage. Then SEN/MED/MED if there's anything big incoming, MED/MED/MED to heal up, and MED/SAB/SYN or RAV/SAB/SYN to rebuff anything that's fallen off. That was pretty much my entire battle plan for the last few bosses.
Thing is, they're not that much longer. I've got a new set up of Sazh/Vanille/Lightning and my two main Paradigms now are my all-time favourite RAV/RAV/COM and SYN/MED/MED. I also have a SYN/SAB/COM and SYN/SAB/MED for bosses, but against the basic minions, I find the Saboteur a little pointless - if I get most enemies to their Stagger point, Lightning uses Launch and I can juggle them by staggering Sazh and Vanille's attacks to keep them in the air so they can't do any damage to me.

Of course, this also works on most bosses, but it's nice to have the debuffs in case they can fly :p
 

Warachia

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Dakeyras-Way said:
Warachia said:
Slycne said:
Warachia said:
ALL FF GAMES ARE LINEAR. Get that through your thick skulls.
And if linearity was a black and white issue your statement might have merit. This might come as a surprising reveal, but a grey scale exists between total freedom and walking down a a single hallway. XIII leans towards the single hallway, where as in the past Final Fantasy games have existed somewhere in the center leaning towards linear. If you can't see that then I would recommend examining the thickness of the your own skull first.
I find it extremely sad that many cannot examine the old to understand the new. If you look at older FF games, (the ones I'm using are 1,2,4,5,7, and 9) they are just as linear, you can wander off the path to a hidden treasure chest, but that is all that is waiting for you. you cannot influence anything, aside from names, equipment and combat, and all of these ff games have mainly only 1 corridor you follow through to make it to the end of the stage. Those are past FF games, and I would like to know what you werwe expecting if not more of the same.

By the way, I do like FF games, but mainly for their storytelling and enviroments.
*Jaw drops* BUH???

FFVII actually had a free world which you could run around and go into any kind of building that you could see (well just about) i mean you could go into towns and wander around for quite a while..

And as for your other examples they too had free worlds (ie the world map) where you could wander to your hearts desire.. If you wanted to walk all the way back to the first town for whatever reason you could!
Did running back to the first town affect story, characters, plot, or anything else? Did the extra exploration change any of the events that happened or were going to happen? If you can explore in a game, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have any linearity, it just means you press a fictional pause button while you run around doing things that have no effect on anything else. Every single event that could happen will happen regardless of what you do to try and stop it.
 

Dakeyras-Way

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Warachia said:
John Funk said:
Warachia said:
ALL FF GAMES ARE LINEAR. Get that through your thick skulls.
This game is extremely linear even by Final Fantasy standards. Get that through yours. :p

Even in FFX, arguably the most linear other than this, you could still explore; there were still towns, there were still different pathways to go down.
but exploration was all you could do, even in past games you finished a crypt/level/dungeon/palace by following one corridor down one path, with only extra monster encounters and chests for you if you left the path. Sort of like the game The Path. You could not influence the story, change characters, or find alternate routes around game scenarios (other than there is a boulder in the way). This is why I do not understand why people expect FF13 to be anything BUT linear, and i do apologize if all you meant was that you wanted some form of exploration and I misheard.
Okay now i understand what you mean... yes you are right most of the dungeons/crypt/levels or whatever were linear but they were linear events in a explorable world.. you could go here or there... in this game its basically linear event after linear event with no choice as to whether you want to continue the storyline and explore for a while... (except quite late in the game and the area to explore is rather small in comparison to some other FF games)
 

Dakeyras-Way

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Aug 12, 2008
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Warachia said:
Dakeyras-Way said:
Warachia said:
Slycne said:
Warachia said:
ALL FF GAMES ARE LINEAR. Get that through your thick skulls.
And if linearity was a black and white issue your statement might have merit. This might come as a surprising reveal, but a grey scale exists between total freedom and walking down a a single hallway. XIII leans towards the single hallway, where as in the past Final Fantasy games have existed somewhere in the center leaning towards linear. If you can't see that then I would recommend examining the thickness of the your own skull first.
I find it extremely sad that many cannot examine the old to understand the new. If you look at older FF games, (the ones I'm using are 1,2,4,5,7, and 9) they are just as linear, you can wander off the path to a hidden treasure chest, but that is all that is waiting for you. you cannot influence anything, aside from names, equipment and combat, and all of these ff games have mainly only 1 corridor you follow through to make it to the end of the stage. Those are past FF games, and I would like to know what you werwe expecting if not more of the same.

By the way, I do like FF games, but mainly for their storytelling and enviroments.
*Jaw drops* BUH???

FFVII actually had a free world which you could run around and go into any kind of building that you could see (well just about) i mean you could go into towns and wander around for quite a while..

And as for your other examples they too had free worlds (ie the world map) where you could wander to your hearts desire.. If you wanted to walk all the way back to the first town for whatever reason you could!
Did running back to the first town affect story, characters, plot, or anything else? Did the extra exploration change any of the events that happened or were going to happen? If you can explore in a game, it doesn't mean that it doesn't have any linearity, it just means you press a fictional pause button while you run around doing things that have no effect on anything else. Every single event that could happen will happen regardless of what you do to try and stop it.
Well to put it simply Yes... In VII for example quite a few of the side quests gave you more information about your characters, gave them new abilities or spells. While yes you had little choice that would affect later events there were some... such as the date scene in FF VII where depending upon which characters you talked to throughout the game you could end up going on a date with someone other than Aeris
 

era81

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danpascooch said:
I gotta say, overall the game is good, but it had one hell of a rocky start, about 2/5 of the way through
Before Palumpolum, after which things seem to come together
I really considered outright quitting the game.
Everyone I talk to back home has been saying the same thing they also say they are glad they stuck with it.
 

Warachia

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Dakeyras-Way said:
Okay now i understand what you mean... yes you are right most of the dungeons/crypt/levels or whatever were linear but they were linear events in a explorable world.. you could go here or there... in this game its basically linear event after linear event with no choice as to whether you want to continue the storyline and explore for a while... (except quite late in the game and the area to explore is rather small in comparison to some other FF games)
funny, I never put in a final fantasy game, because I wanted exploration, I put in FF games for their storytelling, and enviroments (and in very rare cases, characters). I never considered not bieng able to explore a killer, even if it does suck a lot, and if you arrived for anything other than story then it's time to reevaluate what you want in an experience, because I can flat out garuntee that there is better combat and exploration on this console genaration (including but not limited to: Star ocean: the last hope, Enchanted Arms, Infinite Undiscovery, and Tales of Vesparia).
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Bland contrived game with poor implementations...at least FF12 had something in the level layouts.. and FFX had the sphere grid...this has nothing...its a Frankenstein of a a game.... its no wonder its done poorly in japan....

edit
If I played a game for stories I'd watch a movie instead.....
/curmudgeon
 

Tonimata

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Tonimata said:
...Why does the combat system sound A LOT like the one from Tales of Symphonia from what I understood there??
It's not...I love Tales, and FF could take a few cues from them, but its not.
Well now I'm interested... and poor...
Guess I'm going to have to stick to replaying Eternal Sonata for the umpteenth time :(
 

Dakeyras-Way

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Warachia said:
Dakeyras-Way said:
Okay now i understand what you mean... yes you are right most of the dungeons/crypt/levels or whatever were linear but they were linear events in a explorable world.. you could go here or there... in this game its basically linear event after linear event with no choice as to whether you want to continue the storyline and explore for a while... (except quite late in the game and the area to explore is rather small in comparison to some other FF games)
funny, I never put in a final fantasy game, because I wanted exploration, I put in FF games for their storytelling, and enviroments (and in very rare cases, characters). I never considered not bieng able to explore a killer, even if it does suck a lot, and if you arrived for anything other than story then it's time to reevaluate what you want in an experience, because I can flat out garuntee that there is better combat and exploration on this console genaration (including but not limited to: Star ocean: the last hope, Enchanted Arms, Infinite Undiscovery, and Tales of Vesparia).
... I'm not saying that I necessarily dislike the storytelling or even the game I'm just saying you could finish the entire game by holding forwards and tapping x...
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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blipblop said:
i might be wrong, but did you steal GT review line by line at some places???
Uh, you're very wrong. I didn't even know GT *did* reviews. Hell, I've avoided most reviews of the game altogether since I didn't want my opinion to be shaped by them.

Plagiarism is a very serious charge, so I'd appreciate if you didn't insult me by suggesting that :/
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Slycne said:
Ya but with 4(and ,5,7,8,9) you get a ever expanding world then a bit of the moon with X,anything bioware,XIII and even 12(to a small degree) you get a static on the rails world that should be far to simplistic for today's supposedly higher standards...

John Funk said:
blipblop said:
i might be wrong, but did you steal GT review line by line at some places???
Uh, you're very wrong. I didn't even know GT *did* reviews. Hell, I've avoided most reviews of the game altogether since I didn't want my opinion to be shaped by them.

Plagiarism is a very serious charge, so I'd appreciate if you didn't insult me by suggesting that :/
Plagiarism = "There, I went and stole your words, too. Now you no longer have those words because I have stolen them from you. If I had infringed the copyright of your words you'd still have them, I'd just be benefiting from them as well, but because I stole them you can no longer have them."

:p
 

John Funk

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Dec 20, 2005
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ZippyDSMlee said:
Slycne said:
Ya but with 4(and ,5,7,8,9) you get a ever expanding world then a bit of the moon with X,anything bioware,XIII and even 12(to a small degree) you get a static on the rails world that should be far to simplistic for today's supposedly higher standards...
But here's the thing; linearity isn't inherently a bad choice. Today's "higher standards" has nothing to do with an "on-rails" world. Not every game has to be open-ended; execution can make all the difference in the world.
 

Warachia

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Dakeyras-Way said:
Well to put it simply Yes... In VII for example quite a few of the side quests gave you more information about your characters, gave them new abilities or spells. While yes you had little choice that would affect later events there were some... such as the date scene in FF VII where depending upon which characters you talked to throughout the game you could end up going on a date with someone other than Aeris
Yes, you can get extra abilities and items, but they had no effect on the game (aside from making it easier), unless you were a romantic or a completionist there was no point in the date scene, as all characters seemed to forget about it about 30 seconds after it was over, and aside from getting extra weapons/items to hopefully use against the final boss making the fight too easy (20+ megalixers) everybody THOUGHT it would be nice to return to this area later, did you? Maybe, maybe not. I know I didn't. If you did, you did only to get the aforementioned items before leaving the place behind forever. In a really special scenario, you treasure a city, leave, thinking how nice it would be to come back, and then have the city destroyed, while you remember fond memories of being there. In my opinion it degrades the experience when you return and the city is now boring and insipid with no interesting events.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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John Funk said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
Slycne said:
Ya but with 4(and ,5,7,8,9) you get a ever expanding world then a bit of the moon with X,anything bioware,XIII and even 12(to a small degree) you get a static on the rails world that should be far to simplistic for today's supposedly higher standards...
But here's the thing; linearity isn't inherently a bad choice. Today's "higher standards" has nothing to do with an "on-rails" world. Not every game has to be open-ended; execution can make all the difference in the world.
Open ended < expanding crawl(for lack of a better word on my end) don't confuse the pathing emphasis of Oblivion/FO3 or House of the dead with a more progressively polished and designed approach to pathing. One eases you into a fake open ended world while the other forces you on the rails at gun point. (oh god my grammar is failing me).

On the rails is simple,effective from a design standpoint and cheaper to produce thus why we get shorter and shorter hallway games from the majority of the mainstream producers...........

Warachia said:
Dakeyras-Way said:
Well to put it simply Yes... In VII for example quite a few of the side quests gave you more information about your characters, gave them new abilities or spells. While yes you had little choice that would affect later events there were some... such as the date scene in FF VII where depending upon which characters you talked to throughout the game you could end up going on a date with someone other than Aeris
Yes, you can get extra abilities and items, but they had no effect on the game (aside from making it easier), unless you were a romantic or a completionist there was no point in the date scene, as all characters seemed to forget about it about 30 seconds after it was over, and aside from getting extra weapons/items to hopefully use against the final boss making the fight too easy (20+ megalixers) everybody THOUGHT it would be nice to return to this area later, did you? Maybe, maybe not. I know I didn't. If you did, you did only to get the aforementioned items before leaving the place behind forever. In a really special scenario, you treasure a city, leave, thinking how nice it would be to come back, and then have the city destroyed, while you remember fond memories of being there. In my opinion it degrades the experience when you return and the city is now boring and insipid with no interesting events.
I'd rather have the choice to go there........ more options people...not less...... get it right already.....
 

Dakeyras-Way

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Warachia said:
Dakeyras-Way said:
Well to put it simply Yes... In VII for example quite a few of the side quests gave you more information about your characters, gave them new abilities or spells. While yes you had little choice that would affect later events there were some... such as the date scene in FF VII where depending upon which characters you talked to throughout the game you could end up going on a date with someone other than Aeris
Yes, you can get extra abilities and items, but they had no effect on the game (aside from making it easier), unless you were a romantic or a completionist there was no point in the date scene, as all characters seemed to forget about it about 30 seconds after it was over, and aside from getting extra weapons/items to hopefully use against the final boss making the fight too easy (20+ megalixers) everybody THOUGHT it would be nice to return to this area later, did you? Maybe, maybe not. I know I didn't. If you did, you did only to get the aforementioned items before leaving the place behind forever. In a really special scenario, you treasure a city, leave, thinking how nice it would be to come back, and then have the city destroyed, while you remember fond memories of being there. In my opinion it degrades the experience when you return and the city is now boring and insipid with no interesting events.
I would like to point out that the date scene was just an example i don't particularly care one way or another whether the characters remember it or not the fact remains you did influence the events and that's not the only place it happens... Plus quite a few of the towns that you do go back to DO have events that occur outside of the actual story..

But most importantly just because you found that returning was boring and insipid that doesnt actually make it linear... the fact you can choose to return and do something new or whatever you wanted (by your own admission with the megalixer thing) makes it non linear... The STORY is linear but the actual game isnt..

Oh and saying there is no point in getting a different part of the story after claiming there were no other parts kinda proves my point