iblis666 said:ZippyDSMlee said:Mythrignoc said:ZippyDSMlee said:John Funk said:And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....Mythrignoc said:@Zippy,
Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.
They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.John Funk said:Mythrignoc said:Linearity ISN'T a bad thing. I really don't know where he's coming from here, to be honest.ZippyDSMlee said:John Funk said:And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....Mythrignoc said:@Zippy,
Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.
They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.Well looking at FF7 and FF8 you can see the trend to smaller towns and explorable environments, FF9 was a god send the last true FF game and it was a true FF game not due tot eh fantasy theme but because it was well balanced and fun in a complete world environment. FFX showed corridors sell just as well so why put all this time and money into a larger more balanced game when anything will do......Mythrignoc said:ZippyDSMlee said:John Funk said:And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....Mythrignoc said:@Zippy,
Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.
They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.FF9 was one of the last great games of the final fantasy series because it was balanced. It gave you some nice mini games, good story, exploration, colorful characters, and didnt take its self too seriously.John Funk said:Ok let me try and explain it like this, there is a higher level of fun for me in a game that has a high illusion level of non-linearity but has not lost qaulity and polish to making an open world lulz fest. So Quake 1-2,RTCW,Dark Messiah is "deeper" than Bioshocck, FF4,FF6,ff9 are more fun and interesting to me than any other RPG I have played because newer games do not have much depth in the illusion of non-linearity they are more boxed and constricted concepts.Mythrignoc said:Linearity ISN'T a bad thing. I really don't know where he's coming from here, to be honest.ZippyDSMlee said:John Funk said:And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....Mythrignoc said:@Zippy,
Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.
They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.
Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.
I apologize for my grammar and the way I communicate I tend to stick on easy trains of thought I can easily roll, its difficult for me to find the right words or line of thought sometimes.Ok let me try and explain it like this, there is a higher level of fun for me in a game that has a high illusion level of non-linearity but has not lost qaulity and polish to making an open world lulz fest. So Quake 1-2,RTCW,Dark Messiah is "deeper" than Bioshocck, FF4,FF6,ff9 are more fun and interesting to me than any other RPG I have played because newer games do not have much depth in the illusion of non-linearity they are more boxed and constricted concepts.Warachia said:As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.ZippyDSMlee said:There is no "diversity" in the linearity of free form things........ I suppose you have given up the fight on "qaulity" and go with whatever the flow is as most reviewers seem to do with today's 8's are yesterdays 6s and all.....
My "preferences" are more options,more content, more quality which seems to fly like sht hitting the preverbal fan in a 180 direction and less content,options lead to more money for the questionably "diverse" game industry.
I suppose art is in the eye of the beholder and all but it dose not make twilight(or "insert pathetic media here") any better and I am not getting any younger, all I need is a cane with a golf ball on it and I will be all set!
As for personal opinion, just don't bring it into these arguments, because it is an instant lose argument for both sides, to help you out though, you just aren't looking in the right places, try way of the samurai 3 for massive non-linearity, or try the Star Ocean series if you like Jrpg's.
By the way, I find it funny that you complain about quality when your spelling is horrible.
I apologize for my grammar and the way I communicate I tend to stick on easy trains of thought I can easily roll, its difficult for me to find the right words or line of thought sometimes.
the problem is that after that we get games like FF12 that felt like just one big bland mini game with bland uninteresting characters and while the battle system was interesting at first after a while it felt like your characters were on auto pilot.
With FF13 It looks pretty, the characters took less bland than FF12, and the battle system looks like it might be more interactive than ff12; but it seems to be too linear what with no exploration and mini games plus it seems that it takes its self too seriously.
Square enix can save this game though with something that wasnt available on earlier ps systems and that is the ability to download addons, with this tool they can release exploration such as: towns, dungeons, and fun secret stuff; they can also release mini games and side quests that can flesh out the game and improve its replayability turning it into some what of a evolving world that will be a bit different every time you replay it after a addon is patched in.
These days publishers are not interested in putting more into a game what you tend to get is left overs and stuff locked on the disc as DLC.....
Wounded Melody said:You really think FF6 was completely linear?ZippyDSMlee said:As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.
And I know with some of the FFs, like 5, I would be flying all over the world map trying to find the next spot to go to (if I didn't consult a map). I consider that a bit more open than just running from point A to B as FF13 seems to be.Guys Warachia said that not meTjebbe said:Indeed, I haven't played any since 7, but 4, 5 and 6 all had this great open world, which you could travel through and explore freely (after a certain while), the main story might be linear (doh), but the games certainly weren't.Wounded Melody said:You really think FF6 was completely linear?ZippyDSMlee said:As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.
And I know with some of the FFs, like 5, I would be flying all over the world map trying to find the next spot to go to (if I didn't consult a map). I consider that a bit more open than just running from point A to B as FF13 seems to be.
Oh man remember that magic-only tower in 6?
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.181176-Review-Final-Fantasy-XIII?page=4#5365818
FF's were open world leaning they tied everything together to make a small planet these days you get a bunch of corridors......