Review: Final Fantasy XIII

ZippyDSMlee

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iblis666 said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
Mythrignoc said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
@Zippy,

Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.

They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.


Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....

Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
@Zippy,

Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.

They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.


Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....

Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.
Linearity ISN'T a bad thing. I really don't know where he's coming from here, to be honest.
Mythrignoc said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
@Zippy,

Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.

They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.


Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....

Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
John Funk said:
Mythrignoc said:
@Zippy,

Not one final fantasy game will let you open endedly explore the world until the end of the game.
Not one final fatnasy will allow you to choose your own background and story.
Not one will have an ending based on who you fight and who you don't fight, or which moral/ethical side you are on.

They give you the illusion of choice in some game but the end result is still the same. For instance, in 5, you could do whatever job you wanted, allowing you to have say Bartz as the mage and Krile as the warrior instead of the stereotypes, but no matter what you do, the end story and end result of the game will always be the same no matter how you play it. Exdeath, Sephiroth, Kefka, Sin, Edea, all of them will die by your hands no matter what you do in the games.


Don't kid yourself into thinking that there's degrees of linearity in games. You either do or don't have a choice, there's no maybe with something like that and while I hate black and white analysis', this is one of the few that I have yet to find any middle ground.
And IMO thats what made them great and what modern gaming is nearly incapable of doing creating the illusion of being open ended without making things horribly disconjointed. We either get linear as frak (anything bioware or capcom made)and disconjointed (anything Bethesda made and most sand box designs) because it takes to much time to build a sand box with rules.....

Erm...I never said linearity is a bad thing. All I'm saying is looking for non-linearity in a game designed to be linear is pointless, and final fantasy is one of those kinds of games.
Linearity ISN'T a bad thing. I really don't know where he's coming from here, to be honest.
Ok let me try and explain it like this, there is a higher level of fun for me in a game that has a high illusion level of non-linearity but has not lost qaulity and polish to making an open world lulz fest. So Quake 1-2,RTCW,Dark Messiah is "deeper" than Bioshocck, FF4,FF6,ff9 are more fun and interesting to me than any other RPG I have played because newer games do not have much depth in the illusion of non-linearity they are more boxed and constricted concepts.

I apologize for my grammar and the way I communicate I tend to stick on easy trains of thought I can easily roll, its difficult for me to find the right words or line of thought sometimes.
Warachia said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
There is no "diversity" in the linearity of free form things........ I suppose you have given up the fight on "qaulity" and go with whatever the flow is as most reviewers seem to do with today's 8's are yesterdays 6s and all.....

My "preferences" are more options,more content, more quality which seems to fly like sht hitting the preverbal fan in a 180 direction and less content,options lead to more money for the questionably "diverse" game industry.

I suppose art is in the eye of the beholder and all but it dose not make twilight(or "insert pathetic media here") any better and I am not getting any younger, all I need is a cane with a golf ball on it and I will be all set!
As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.

As for personal opinion, just don't bring it into these arguments, because it is an instant lose argument for both sides, to help you out though, you just aren't looking in the right places, try way of the samurai 3 for massive non-linearity, or try the Star Ocean series if you like Jrpg's.
By the way, I find it funny that you complain about quality when your spelling is horrible.
Ok let me try and explain it like this, there is a higher level of fun for me in a game that has a high illusion level of non-linearity but has not lost qaulity and polish to making an open world lulz fest. So Quake 1-2,RTCW,Dark Messiah is "deeper" than Bioshocck, FF4,FF6,ff9 are more fun and interesting to me than any other RPG I have played because newer games do not have much depth in the illusion of non-linearity they are more boxed and constricted concepts.

I apologize for my grammar and the way I communicate I tend to stick on easy trains of thought I can easily roll, its difficult for me to find the right words or line of thought sometimes.
FF9 was one of the last great games of the final fantasy series because it was balanced. It gave you some nice mini games, good story, exploration, colorful characters, and didnt take its self too seriously.

the problem is that after that we get games like FF12 that felt like just one big bland mini game with bland uninteresting characters and while the battle system was interesting at first after a while it felt like your characters were on auto pilot.

With FF13 It looks pretty, the characters took less bland than FF12, and the battle system looks like it might be more interactive than ff12; but it seems to be too linear what with no exploration and mini games plus it seems that it takes its self too seriously.

Square enix can save this game though with something that wasnt available on earlier ps systems and that is the ability to download addons, with this tool they can release exploration such as: towns, dungeons, and fun secret stuff; they can also release mini games and side quests that can flesh out the game and improve its replayability turning it into some what of a evolving world that will be a bit different every time you replay it after a addon is patched in.
Well looking at FF7 and FF8 you can see the trend to smaller towns and explorable environments, FF9 was a god send the last true FF game and it was a true FF game not due tot eh fantasy theme but because it was well balanced and fun in a complete world environment. FFX showed corridors sell just as well so why put all this time and money into a larger more balanced game when anything will do......

These days publishers are not interested in putting more into a game what you tend to get is left overs and stuff locked on the disc as DLC.....

Wounded Melody said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.
You really think FF6 was completely linear?
And I know with some of the FFs, like 5, I would be flying all over the world map trying to find the next spot to go to (if I didn't consult a map). I consider that a bit more open than just running from point A to B as FF13 seems to be.
Tjebbe said:
Wounded Melody said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well.
You really think FF6 was completely linear?
And I know with some of the FFs, like 5, I would be flying all over the world map trying to find the next spot to go to (if I didn't consult a map). I consider that a bit more open than just running from point A to B as FF13 seems to be.
Indeed, I haven't played any since 7, but 4, 5 and 6 all had this great open world, which you could travel through and explore freely (after a certain while), the main story might be linear (doh), but the games certainly weren't.

Oh man remember that magic-only tower in 6? :)
Guys Warachia said that not me
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/6.181176-Review-Final-Fantasy-XIII?page=4#5365818


FF's were open world leaning they tied everything together to make a small planet these days you get a bunch of corridors......
 

Warachia

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Dakeyras-Way said:
I feel we are arguing about 2 different things... and some parts are as you said personal opinions.. I have been slightly over enthusiastic and as such I apologise for being rude...

I did like the way the towns changed in Enchanted Arms... It was always good to work for something like that... I just feel that perhaps that isnt the only thing that works... Linearity isnt a bad thing... And throughout all the discussion we have agreed that FF is linear to differing degrees...

I really enjoy the exploration, the side quests and finding all the secrets in a game. You appear to prefer only working towards valuable things in the game like unlocking different endings or such (which dont really happen in FF as you have said).

I do however say (from what i have read undisputedly) that FFxIII is LINEAR to the extreme and sadly so...
Seems that way, and here I am surprisingly going to agree with everything you said.
 

Warachia

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I would like to deeply apologize to ZippyDSMlee for accidently making it look like his post when I was trying to quote him.

I said:

"As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well."
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Warachia said:
I would like to deeply apologize to ZippyDSMlee for accidently making it look like his post when I was trying to quote him.

I said:

"As I said before, all FF games that are linear, if you don't want linearity, don't play FF games, I don't know what you were expecting if you complain about this game being linear as well."
No prob man the quote system is a bit finicky still.


As for the linearity argument and my lacking ability to exspress what I mean let me try it again.
"I am not talking about linearity in the hard felt limits of a game but how one finds and interacts with those limits. Newer games are bad about banging you against a wall than leading you around it."
 

Taern

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So, first and only main-series Final Fantasy game I've liked so far.

As for the complaints about linearity... Well, it's Final Fantasy, were you expecting Fallout or something?
 

SomeUnregPunk

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Mythrignoc said:
FF2 Characters- Firion, Leon, Maria, Guy
FF3 Characters- Luneth, Ingus, Arc, Refia
FF4 Characters- Cecil, Rydia, Tellah, Edward, Yang, Palom, Porom, Edge, FuSoYa
FF5 Characters- Bartz, Faris, Reina, Galuf, Krile
FF6 Characters- Terra, Locke, Celes, Edgar, Cyan, Sabin, Setzer, Shadow, Mog
FF7 Characters- Cloud, Tifa, Barret, Red XIII, Yuffie, Cait Sith, Cid
FF8 Characters- Squall, Quistis, Rinoa, Selphie, Irvine, Laguna
FF9 Characters- Zidane, Dagger (Garnet), Steiner, Vivi, Amarant, Eiko, Quina, Freya
FF10 Characters- Tidus, Wakka, Yuna, Lulu, Rikku, Auron, Kimhari
FF12 Characters- Vaan, Balthier, Ashe, Basch, Penelo, Fran
FF13 Characters- Lighning, Snow, Vanille, Sazh, Yun Fang, Hope

Well, if you count Cloud, that is a total of 3 out of 71 names involving the weather. 4 if you count Terra which is just a latin name for land and a fairly common american name.

Your point about meteorological names is moot.

No offense but I believe I'm done with your reviews as this is the second instance where I've found you complaining about something that doesn't warrant frustration of any kind.
Oh, and final fantasy has ALWAYS been linear. Always.
--
If terra is considered meteorlogical then maria can be too.
Luneth ... they combined the moon and a name to get something new. OMG! maybe i shouldn't call them out on all the their elemental spells too.
Ingus .... in·cus which is Spelled[ing-kuhs] ... is a cumulonimbus cloud form.
Arc... either can be found in electricity or astronomy or etc. Lightening does arc at times.
Yang ... means daylight
Reina ... a somewhat less common name form of Rena which is the female name form of marina which then leads you to the sea.
cloud and Squall of course.
Laguna... is more closely related to the nautical. But if Squall and Tidus is accepted, then so is this one.
Lighning.... obvious where that came from...
snow....
--
 

keinushi

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FinalHeart95 said:
keinushi said:
I hated it as well, and wtf was this guy thinking???? You can not relate to the black guy, in fact, none of my friends can even stand him!!!! I sold it simply so I wouldn't have to listen to any of their voices anymore. the only one I could relate to was Lightning, and that was only because she hated all of them as well! this is the worst review I have ever heard, and I hope this guy goes to the deepest layer of video game hell.
Aren't opinions just a blast?

The general rule of thumb I'm seeing is:

Liked FFX, hated FFXII = Like FFXIII
Hated FFX, liked FFXII = Hate FFXIII
Liked both = Probably like FFXIII
Hated both = Why were you even thinking of buying this game?
I bought it because I am a true blue FF fan, and have enjoyed almost every single ff game ever released. Minus 6 & 7 of course. all the others have been pretty good, but this one, you don't even get to control your entire party. wtf???
 

Wounded Melody

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Regarding names--
Tidus and Yuna meant sun and moon in Japanese, or so I've heard
Lightning is weather related but not her real name, although her real name is also weather based *gah*
Don't forget Raine and Laguna, which some ppl have surmised means 'rain' + 'lagoon' = 'squall'
And Terra is the English name, Tina is the Japanese one.
 

Dakeyras-Way

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So if we go back to the word meanings like 30% of the characters are weather or elementally related :p

Cloud, Raine, Squall, Laguna, Tidus, Yuna, Lightning, Luneth, Terra

Oh and I dont know for sure but i'm pretty sure Firion means "of the fire"...
 

Dakeyras-Way

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Dakeyras-Way said:
So if we go back to the word meanings like 30% of the characters are weather or elementally related :p

Cloud, Raine, Squall, Laguna, Tidus, Yuna, Lightning, Luneth, Terra, Arc

Oh and I dont know for sure but i'm pretty sure Firion means "of the fire"...
Actually i hate to double post but Maria means "bitter sea", Locke means "forest", Shadow (well obviously) means "Shade from Sun", Garnet means "gem" (DUH) which while not meteorological is sort of elemental. And Lulu means "pearl".. And Ashe means "ash", OOO and Faris means "Iron strong", and

So thats actually about a third of the characters which have elemental/meteorological names.. Plus the site i was using only could work out about 1 in 3 of the names so the others that it didnt work out could quite easily be elemental/meteorological as well...

(PS Ironically Cecil means 'Blind' which if you've played the game Cecil definitely starts the game as this (metaphorically)
Oh and Vivi means alive.. which again is really ironic... Actually researching most of the names actually in hind sight is an accurate representation of most characters in the games. Obviously not the ones previously mentioned..
 

SomeUnregPunk

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Maria is also the plural form of mare which is then means the many dark spots of the moon.

I only know that because I find it funny that both Terra and Maria is female names of plant size things.

CORRODED SIN said:
John Funk said:
Review: Final Fantasy XIII

Final Fantasy XIII stumbles out of the gate, but catches up by the end once it finds its Focus.

Read Full Article
Actually the pre-rendered cut scenes don't make me wonder why they didn't use the game engine, the pre-rendered cut scenes make me wonder why they didn't make a FUCKING MOVIE.
They tried that already. It didn't do as well as traditional cartoon movies did.
That spirits movie would have been better as a game anyhow.
 

Deady Kwob

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Personally, when I hear that the game is "linear" it don't read it as applying to the plot. All CRPGs, Final Fantasy ones in particular, have very linear plots. I'm more disappointed about the lack of variety in player actions.

Consider, I'm about 6 hours in, and all I've done is
-run along a fairly narrow path, occasionally going on small branches to get treasure chests
-fight monsters
-watch non-interactive cut scenes
-read background information found by selecting items in the game menu!

As a comparison, the in the same time period in FF7, up to the escape from Midgar, I did all of the above, plus:
-wander around towns talking to people, learning background information that way
-learn the materia system, which for provided greater character customization than anything in FF13
-participate in several "action plus battle" sequence, like the escape from the train or protecting Aerith from guards using dropped barrels
-go around a town gathering cross-dressing items for Cloud
-the epic escape from Shinra HQ, which involves several boss fights and a motorcycle minigame

It's not a lot, but I find the mini-activities in FF7 provide a nice change of pace from the relentless "run. fight. watch. repeat." stuff in FF13.
 

FinalHeart95

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keinushi said:
FinalHeart95 said:
keinushi said:
I hated it as well, and wtf was this guy thinking???? You can not relate to the black guy, in fact, none of my friends can even stand him!!!! I sold it simply so I wouldn't have to listen to any of their voices anymore. the only one I could relate to was Lightning, and that was only because she hated all of them as well! this is the worst review I have ever heard, and I hope this guy goes to the deepest layer of video game hell.
Aren't opinions just a blast?

The general rule of thumb I'm seeing is:

Liked FFX, hated FFXII = Like FFXIII
Hated FFX, liked FFXII = Hate FFXIII
Liked both = Probably like FFXIII
Hated both = Why were you even thinking of buying this game?
I bought it because I am a true blue FF fan, and have enjoyed almost every single ff game ever released. Minus 6 & 7 of course. all the others have been pretty good, but this one, you don't even get to control your entire party. wtf???
Wait, you mean you DIDN'T like 6 or 7?

Also, in XII you only controlled one character as well, for the most part. Hell, you could control NONE OF THEM if you set your gambits correctly.
 

Buffoon

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Couldn't agree less with the reviewer's assessment of the plot. I absolutely loved the opening sections, I thought it was fantastic use of in media res, which is something the FF series has done rather well. I found it extremely intriguing to actually not know a lot about why the characters were doing what they were doing, and the revelations that came throughout the game were strengthened by the fact that not everything was clear.
 

Olrod

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Onyx Oblivion said:
The soundtrack is great, I especially like the Chocobo Theme from Nautilus. There. That doesn't spoil a damn thing.

I was bitterly disappointed that this piece of music (or rather, the English translation) wasn't included in the CD that came with the Collector's Edition.

Boo, Square Enix, boo.
 

Swmystery

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I'll throw in my two cents, though I haven't finished the game yet so I can't comment on the story. There are many good things about FF13. The graphics are amazing, the characters feel human (in that they have likeable and dislikable aspects, and they do grow on you over time), and the combat system is one of the best of the series, I think. This being said, I think there are several flaws which keep it from being a great game, and merely make it a good one instead:

As many have said, all FF's have been linear. However, there are degrees of linerarity, ranging from the near-complete lack of linearity present in the latter half of VI to the tightly controlled X and XIII. I agree with the main reviewer that linearity is not inherently bad. I enjoyed X and I have enjoyed what I've played so far of XIII despite their linear natures. But additional side quests that involve more then just combat (as in this game's version of 12's god-awful Mark Hunting), a world map, and an airship to fly around said world map would have done wonders to soothe the feeling that FF13 is a series of dungeons, in that they would have helped maintain the illusion of choice present in previous titles, and allowed greater control over the pacing of the plot. The linearity is a flaw in the game that will bother some people more then others, but me not so much.

Next, the oft-mentioned no towns issue. This may not be a justified criticism, simply because the storyline makes it so that it wouldn't make sense for you to be running around traditional towns even if they did exist. The game makes it very clear that anyone fron Cocoon is terrified of anything and everything related to Pulse. So how, given what you are in the game, could you chat to random npc's for information when they're either too scared to talk to you, or will inform the police as soon as you walk away? How could you acquire new items and gear when the weapon shop owner's more likely to use his weapons on you then he is to sell them to you? Some particularly money-grubbing individuals might be willing to overlook it, but it couldn't have worked for all of them. The developers themselves acknowledged this, for better or worse. I am willing to bet the towns which linger in people's memories from previous FF's do so because of how they look and feel, and not because of where the item shop was.

On the other hand...would it really have been so hard for your party to go undercover while in said towns? L'Cie brands aren't exactly difficult to conceal- Serah proves that herself, and there is potential for drama if your team is found out while in one of them, not to mention the change of pace. And even if it's true that the defining characteristic of a town is how it looks and feels, the town needs to be of a certain size to accomplish that, which is apparantly not the case here.

The other thing which bugs me a little is the slow way in which the combat system is introduced to you. While only controlling one character doesn't bug me since you'd probably be dead by the time you finished manually inputting commands to all three later on, and I love the Crystalaium system more then any other since IX (simply because I'm picking my characters because they each offer something unique, as opposed to it not making any real difference who I make do what, as in VII, VIII, X-2, and most of all XII), because you only control one character, and until chapter 3 you only have access to the bare minimum of skills, it makes for a somewhat lacklustre experience to begin with. Storyline wise, the opening's fine, but in terms of combat it's repetitive and dull for the most part. Even then, it seems to unneccessarily limit your choices and options early on, where you have more then 3 party members, yet you can't swap them around or change the character you control until later. It would have almost better to give you total freedom over everything from the start and letting you experiment in the early game instead of holding your hand for so long, especially since the retry option means you won't be risking much by doing so.

Sorry for the long post. I reckon 13's a solid, enjoyable game, but lacks in several areas that make it not up to standards of the greatest games in the series. I'd say it's definetly worth getting if you enjoyed X.
 

keinushi

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FinalHeart95 said:
keinushi said:
FinalHeart95 said:
keinushi said:
I hated it as well, and wtf was this guy thinking???? You can not relate to the black guy, in fact, none of my friends can even stand him!!!! I sold it simply so I wouldn't have to listen to any of their voices anymore. the only one I could relate to was Lightning, and that was only because she hated all of them as well! this is the worst review I have ever heard, and I hope this guy goes to the deepest layer of video game hell.
Aren't opinions just a blast?

The general rule of thumb I'm seeing is:

Liked FFX, hated FFXII = Like FFXIII
Hated FFX, liked FFXII = Hate FFXIII
Liked both = Probably like FFXIII
Hated both = Why were you even thinking of buying this game?
I bought it because I am a true blue FF fan, and have enjoyed almost every single ff game ever released. Minus 6 & 7 of course. all the others have been pretty good, but this one, you don't even get to control your entire party. wtf???
Wait, you mean you DIDN'T like 6 or 7?

Also, in XII you only controlled one character as well, for the most part. Hell, you could control NONE OF THEM if you set your gambits correctly.
6 was just a bit too long winded for me, 7 was overhyped for a game where you play as a crossdressing Popeye the Sailor impersonator, and your right, 12 was crap too, got it confused with the ds version, which was actually fun