Revisiting Ghosts of Tsushima

CriticalGaming

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If you all remember when I did my Ghosts of Tsushima impressions thread, I was very luke warm on the game. Maybe because I was on hour 170 of Final Fantasy 7 remake at the time and was looking for excuses to go back to the game, and Ghosts really didn't impress me much on first take. I have since been away from the game for (checks calendar) 6 months or something and having seen the game reach number 1 on a LOT of GOTY lists for many many many people, and the fact that there has been practically nothing released yet this year. So in my downtime I figured I should probably go back and actually finish the game that made the top of a lot of lists last year.

What I can say is that Ghosts really tries to stick to the style of it's inspiration. Personally I think it sticks to it a little too hard and it can get a little annoying at times. The slow cinematic that plays before every major duel, designed to build tension of course but this is just a random dumbass that's literally going to quit and second I raise my sword so maybe you don't need the long dramatic setup this one time. But credit to the game for having a clear vision and sticking to it regardless of how it might dig at the player.

The second time around I feel like I'm actually liking the game less when I'm trying to pay attention to the story and liking it more when I'm just hunting map markers and killing Mongols. And I think this comes from the characters within, the set up for the game is that Mongol's have invaded and killed pretty much every warrior and friend you've ever known and the few that or left are scattered about Tsushima for you to collect and get back into the fight. This being the case, every character is super serious and grim which makes sense and is perfectly understandable, but it hurts the fun factor for me. I grow so tired of the melodrama of how sad and angry everyone is that I have a hard time rooting for anyone.

"My brother is missing."
"Bandits killing my whole family"
"I trained a monster and I'm sad about it."
"Stop stabbing people in the back"

The misery of the characters is highlighted even more when you do encounter one character with some brevity, namely the sleazy Sake saleman who is hilarious because he keeps convincing Jin to hide in random shit to sneak into Mongol camps. He is clearly trying to help Jin but all his ideas are gross and it adds a nice touch of lightness to the game which I think could have been used more. Especially with minor characters, the small quests you can take on should have had more "fun" to them to help balance the grimness of the rest of the game.

That being sad the combat is really pretty fun here. You have four stances that act like a Rock, Paper, Scissors system to the different enemy types and you can swap between them pretty quickly and on the fly which is good. However these stances also feel a bit broken as you will destroy anyone you fight so long as you are in the right stance. But what really stands out as a weakness to the combat is that if you are in the wrong stance you are basically useless to the enemy as somehow your sword no longer cuts or breaks armor because you are holding it wrong I guess. What you have left is a very easy, but enjoyable enough combat system that really makes clearing out camps and fighting enemies the stand out of the game.

I mentioned above how every duel comes with an annoyingly long and unskippable cut scene, and there is one other place in which that takes place. The Standoff system. When you approach a camp or group of enemies you can talk shit about there Mom's and challenge a few of them to a quick time event. Every time you do this, you have to deal with a cutscene as the game sets up enemies and I guess triggers the special animations that this event requires. These cut scenes are much shorter than the dueling ones, but they add up and leave me ignoring the stand off system more often than not because I can charge in and kill them all in less time that doing the quick time event, and then STILL having to fight whoever I didn't duel. It's just an added step. I would have like the stand-off system to give you some sort of benefit like scaring away enemies that watch you slice up a homie or something. Stun them for a few seconds to give you an advantage on letting go of a button fast enough.

Like all open world game you also have the random mini things on the map you can do. Ghosts has hot springs, in which you take a bath and gain a little increase to max hp. Fox Shrines in which you follow a fox for a little bit to pray at a little shrine to unlock gear accessory slots. Bamboo slice things, where you press a rapid order of buttons to cut through bamboo to increase your resolve resource. Shrines which are just Ubisoft towers that don't grant you map visibility and i forgot what they do give you because it must not be that important. And slam poetry spots which you point the camera at a thing and spit out a few lyrics, I don't remember what these give you either. Oh and there are also monuments that also give you nothing I can remember.

And that's kind of the problem isn't it. There is plenty to do in Ghosts but none of it feels worth while. I do like the rush of dopamine I get when I see the map marker clear or a red village turn gray because I've killed all the baddies there, but for all the charms and bandana's I've gotten, none of them have felt like they matter or offer incentive to hunt for other more powerful versions. Maybe it's because the combat is too easy and therefore powering myself up feels meaningless.

The power scaling for leveling also feels strange. I've not yet saved my uncle and have cleared almost everything in the first map and I have unlocked almost everything I can in the skill tree. Every stance is maxed out, I've maxed my deflection tree, the only things I need are some more points into the ghost weapons that I never use anyway. Things like bombs, kunai, and distracting bells, your character has so much shit at his disposal that too much of them go to waste because you simply don't need them. Your stances gain so much power that all the little side shit you can do in combat is a waste because you'll never need nor even think about using them.

All that being said, I do fine myself enjoying the game more this time around. It's become my mindless game, where I can fart around the open world and clear up some random tasks, do a couple of missions and move on. The world is pretty, the combat is fun if too easy, and the story is passable if you like the overly serious drama of it all which I will admit has it's place.

Oh there is one last thing. The way the game uses the wind to show you where your map marker is....it is a brilliant idea on paper but in practice I hate it. I have to constantly swipe my touch pad to keep the wind blowing to make sure I'm still going the right way. I get that they didn't want to clutter the screen with and UI elements and the HUD in game is practically nonexistent as it is, but if that was the idea then how come once I'm within 50 yards of the thing I tracked does a marker then appear in the world? You're fine with marking it once I'm there already? I don't understand. Just give me a map marker that's why I placed one on the fucking map in the first place. Or if you are going to use the wind, then keep the wind blowing with the noticeable streams until I reach my destination because every time it dies down, I'm swiping to get it to blow again just leave it blowing goddamn it.
 

happyninja42

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What I can say is that Ghosts really tries to stick to the style of it's inspiration. Personally I think it sticks to it a little too hard and it can get a little annoying at times. The slow cinematic that plays before every major duel, designed to build tension of course but this is just a random dumbass that's literally going to quit and second I raise my sword so maybe you don't need the long dramatic setup this one time. But credit to the game for having a clear vision and sticking to it regardless of how it might dig at the player.
Yeah my issue with the comedy dramatic duel sequence you are talking about, is that it's often the FIRST time you go into that cutscene dueling mechanic, depending on how you are moving about the map. I personally feel that undermines the dramatic tone of those dueling shots, which are straight up "we love samurai duels in movies!" in video game form. I think it would've been better served, overall, and for that comedy moment, if you had had at least ONE serious duel, before running into that guy who cowards out as soon as you flick your blade. For me though, it's a minor issue, but I do understand how it could rub people the wrong way. As to the uskippable sequences prior to every duel...*shrugs*...I enjoyed them. They didn't get old. That's just personal preference though, not really anything to be said. You didn't like them, I did.

The second time around I feel like I'm actually liking the game less when I'm trying to pay attention to the story and liking it more when I'm just hunting map markers and killing Mongols. And I think this comes from the characters within, the set up for the game is that Mongol's have invaded and killed pretty much every warrior and friend you've ever known and the few that or left are scattered about Tsushima for you to collect and get back into the fight. This being the case, every character is super serious and grim which makes sense and is perfectly understandable, but it hurts the fun factor for me. I grow so tired of the melodrama of how sad and angry everyone is that I have a hard time rooting for anyone.

The misery of the characters is highlighted even more when you do encounter one character with some brevity, namely the sleazy Sake saleman who is hilarious because he keeps convincing Jin to hide in random shit to sneak into Mongol camps. He is clearly trying to help Jin but all his ideas are gross and it adds a nice touch of lightness to the game which I think could have been used more. Especially with minor characters, the small quests you can take on should have had more "fun" to them to help balance the grimness of the rest of the game.
All I can say for this, is that most samurai films aren't known for being super funny. They will often have ONE character, who is comic relief, but, yeah the rest are usually super grim, growly bushido boys, who all live for honor and sake, and are only happy when they look angry. So I can't really say this is offbrand really? I can appreciate not enjoying it as a theme, and in a movie that only runs 2 hours, versus a video game with 20+ hours of it, I can appreciate it wearing thin for some. It didn't for me. I think mostly because, aside from the Sake dealer, Jin himself does have some pretty good, dry comedy chops on him. He very often has some sassy one liners as response to the various people he encounters, when they are saying something obnoxious or whatnot. It's subtle, but I thought it did a good job of showing Jin's low-key humor, without making him a jokester.
 

happyninja42

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I would have like the stand-off system to give you some sort of benefit like scaring away enemies that watch you slice up a homie or something. Stun them for a few seconds to give you an advantage on letting go of a button fast enough.
It does do that, or, more accurately, you can gain the ability later on, to terrify your enemies when you kill someone in their sight. There are actually gear builds for the game, entirely centered around maximizing the chance to just scare the pants off the mongols, effectively "killing" them. And this is often triggered by the Standoff effect. You can very easily, panic members of a camp, by killing their buddies in a standoff. It's mostly tied to the narrative, so you might not be there yet. Basically, the legend of The Ghost, reaches a point, due to his cumulative actions against the Mongols, where they basically fear him like Batman, and will often just fuck right off if you leap into their base and start wrecking shit. If you didn't finish act 1, then yeah, you just aren't at that point yet. I actually built my Jin during my second playthrough, to maximize that fear effect, and it feels really good to carve through groups of mongols, building up power to use other special attacks that are equally lethal, and seeing multiple dudes, who survive (if any), just drop their weapon, and run for the hills.

I'm sorry you found the Standoff system boring, as for me, it was always enjoyable. In my review of the game, I cited how the open combat, especially the Standoff system, was so fun for me personally, that is SERIOUSLY compelled me to steer away from going pure ninja, and just openly fighting everyone as much as I could. Because I had so much fun calling them out in front of their camp, fighting them on the road like a solo badass, watching their allies try and come in after I carved up 3-5 of the guys in a Standoff, and then unleash a special attack, follow it up with some kunai, and another attack, and suddenly find myself surrounded by 10+ corpses, in just a few seconds, and hearing the screams of terror from the survivors. Normally, I'm all about stealthy takedowns, and I LOVE being able to drop a camp without ever being noticed. But, damn was it fun to just rock up on their camp, thump my chest and basically scream "Come at me bro!" and then back it up with some insane combat.


Like all open world game you also have the random mini things on the map you can do. Ghosts has hot springs, in which you take a bath and gain a little increase to max hp. Fox Shrines in which you follow a fox for a little bit to pray at a little shrine to unlock gear accessory slots. Bamboo slice things, where you press a rapid order of buttons to cut through bamboo to increase your resolve resource. Shrines which are just Ubisoft towers that don't grant you map visibility and i forgot what they do give you because it must not be that important. And slam poetry spots which you point the camera at a thing and spit out a few lyrics, I don't remember what these give you either. Oh and there are also monuments that also give you nothing I can remember.

And that's kind of the problem isn't it. There is plenty to do in Ghosts but none of it feels worth while. I do like the rush of dopamine I get when I see the map marker clear or a red village turn gray because I've killed all the baddies there, but for all the charms and bandana's I've gotten, none of them have felt like they matter or offer incentive to hunt for other more powerful versions. Maybe it's because the combat is too easy and therefore powering myself up feels meaningless.
Yeah the amount of cosmetic rewards felt excessive to me. You end up with like 40+ headbands, from different sidequest/gathering objectives, and colorful sheathes for your weapons, that I personally couldn't care about. I appreciate that they just put that stuff in the game, and didn't microtransaction it. But I do think it was excessive, as I really didn't care about headbands. The outfits at least had practical benefit, and could be used depending on the situation. The rest was just fluff.

Oh there is one last thing. The way the game uses the wind to show you where your map marker is....it is a brilliant idea on paper but in practice I hate it. I have to constantly swipe my touch pad to keep the wind blowing to make sure I'm still going the right way. I get that they didn't want to clutter the screen with and UI elements and the HUD in game is practically nonexistent as it is, but if that was the idea then how come once I'm within 50 yards of the thing I tracked does a marker then appear in the world? You're fine with marking it once I'm there already? I don't understand. Just give me a map marker that's why I placed one on the fucking map in the first place. Or if you are going to use the wind, then keep the wind blowing with the noticeable streams until I reach my destination because every time it dies down, I'm swiping to get it to blow again just leave it blowing goddamn it.
It does have something of a passive blow effect, though it is easy to miss depending on lighting and terrain. I actually tested it, and if you set a location marker, if you don't swipe the touchpad, the ambient breeze will blow in the general direction you are trying to go. You can confirm it after by swiping. So you can sort of just do it once and not again, but yeah, I think the wind system, which I love personally, would've benefited more from a more active, ambient breeze, more frequently.

I also would've liked it if the way you could effect the weather by playing your flute, had tangible benefit. Like, if you summoned the rain, it would put out the fires in the camps, making it darker, and thus easier to move around, and driving more of the mongols into their tents to avoid the rain.
 

CriticalGaming

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I'm sorry you found the Standoff system boring, as for me, it was always enjoyable. In my review of the game, I cited how the open combat, especially the Standoff system, was so fun for me personally, that is SERIOUSLY compelled me to steer away from going pure ninja, and just openly fighting everyone as much as I could. Because I had so much fun calling them out in front of their camp, fighting them on the road like a solo badass, watching their allies try and come in after I carved up 3-5 of the guys in a Standoff, and then unleash a special attack, follow it up with some kunai, and another attack, and suddenly find myself surrounded by 10+ corpses, in just a few seconds, and hearing the screams of terror from the survivors. Normally, I'm all about stealthy takedowns, and I LOVE being able to drop a camp without ever being noticed. But, damn was it fun to just rock up on their camp, thump my chest and basically scream "Come at me bro!" and then back it up with some insane combat.
Yeah, I mean I am not being a ninja and stealth killing everything either. But I've found it faster and more fun to charge into the china shop like a fucking bull and slice up like three dudes before anyone else realizes what is happening.

All I can say for this, is that most samurai films aren't known for being super funny. They will often have ONE character, who is comic relief, but, yeah the rest are usually super grim, growly bushido boys, who all live for honor and sake, and are only happy when they look angry. So I can't really say this is offbrand really? I can appreciate not enjoying it as a theme, and in a movie that only runs 2 hours, versus a video game with 20+ hours of it, I can appreciate it wearing thin for some. It didn't for me. I think mostly because, aside from the Sake dealer, Jin himself does have some pretty good, dry comedy chops on him. He very often has some sassy one liners as response to the various people he encounters, when they are saying something obnoxious or whatnot. It's subtle, but I thought it did a good job of showing Jin's low-key humor, without making him a jokester.
I get why the characters are all grim and serious, and it does match the style of those old school samurai movies. But like you said, this game is not 2 hours long, it's 25+ hours and to have everyone be that tense for so long can cramp anyone's style. That's one of the reasons Last of Us 2 struggled because the misery of the game is fine, but it's too long of a miserable experience and it grinds people down.

I also want to note that I haven't found the individual tales within the game themselves all that interesting. They seem to strike the stereotypical beats that I've seen too many times already, and while telling similar stories is fine it is further hurt by the characters being stoic and well lacking of character overall.

What makes Lady Masako different from Sensei Ishigawa? What actually character differences are there? How about Yuna? Taka? Who are they? Well they are just people trying to get by, but none of them really behave any different from each other and that's what gets me. I do a mission for Yuna sneaking to find out where her brother is, then I do a mission for Lady Masako and sneak around to find out who killed her family. The only real difference is that Yuna's family is still alive for now. Otherwise they are both eager to cut through whomever they have to to get what they want.

And again it's fine. It fits the tone that Sucker Punch wanted. But I just don't think it makes for a great game. It's much better suited for film. Even the gameplay is much more fun, and it often times counters the narrative laid forth.

Let me ask you this. Jin's conflicted and his uncle disapproves of him sneaking around slitting throats. But if you as the player keep doing it, does anything change? Does your uncle not yell at you if you never do a stealth kill? I am betting the answer is no, and your crazy gameplay actions mean nothing as the plot will be the plot regardless of what you do as the player. This is why I find that light heartedness is important in every video game story, because it help keep the player on board and makes it so that the story doesn't fight the gameplay.
 

happyninja42

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Yeah, I mean I am not being a ninja and stealth killing everything either. But I've found it faster and more fun to charge into the china shop like a fucking bull and slice up like three dudes before anyone else realizes what is happening.
Yes it is faster, and yes, it is very fun to just charge in, not going to lie. I just enjoy the official declaration of battle the Standoff is, especially in a camp. They are often large enough that you don't agro the ENTIRE camp, so you can have this little pocket of open battle, charge up your Resolve and....an ability you get later on that is very lethal, and then unleash those on the dudes further in for more open battle. I'm not super worried about doing it as fast as possible, but with the most fun. What I enjoy about GoT, is that, for me at least, both the stealth and the open combat were equally enjoyable, and I could switch between based on my mood that day of playing.

I get why the characters are all grim and serious, and it does match the style of those old school samurai movies. But like you said, this game is not 2 hours long, it's 25+ hours and to have everyone be that tense for so long can cramp anyone's style. That's one of the reasons Last of Us 2 struggled because the misery of the game is fine, but it's too long of a miserable experience and it grinds people down.

I also want to note that I haven't found the individual tales within the game themselves all that interesting. They seem to strike the stereotypical beats that I've seen too many times already, and while telling similar stories is fine it is further hurt by the characters being stoic and well lacking of character overall.
Eh, I didn't really have an issue with it. I just see it as part of the genre being homaged. Yes, it can wear thin with time, and I did often take big breaks between story elements, because of the super drama of them, even the side missions, and I played it over a few weeks. It was not a binge the entire game ASAP, kind of experience. So with that slower pace, I was able to enjoy the always serious sidequests, though they did have some levity tossed in there.

What makes Lady Masako different from Sensei Ishigawa? What actually character differences are there? How about Yuna? Taka? Who are they? Well they are just people trying to get by, but none of them really behave any different from each other and that's what gets me. I do a mission for Yuna sneaking to find out where her brother is, then I do a mission for Lady Masako and sneak around to find out who killed her family. The only real difference is that Yuna's family is still alive for now. Otherwise they are both eager to cut through whomever they have to to get what they want.
I mean they have very different motivations for their sidequests, and I think Yuna in particular has a lot of development, particularly in the later chapters of the game. She doesn't really give a shit about any of this honor/code stuff, as her upbringing didn't really make it a viable path to survival. I agree that the objectives of the missions are all basically the same, though why they are doing it is different.

And again it's fine. It fits the tone that Sucker Punch wanted. But I just don't think it makes for a great game. It's much better suited for film. Even the gameplay is much more fun, and it often times counters the narrative laid forth.

Let me ask you this. Jin's conflicted and his uncle disapproves of him sneaking around slitting throats. But if you as the player keep doing it, does anything change? Does your uncle not yell at you if you never do a stealth kill? I am betting the answer is no, and your crazy gameplay actions mean nothing as the plot will be the plot regardless of what you do as the player. This is why I find that light heartedness is important in every video game story, because it help keep the player on board and makes it so that the story doesn't fight the gameplay.
Sadly no, nothing changes. This was actually a major point of interest for me when I was first playing the game, and I talked about some narrative lines the game chooses, that subtly hinted at maybe having some control over how "over the line" you take Jin. So I tried a new run of what I called the Honor Run, where, aside from the assassination tutorial, where they FORCE you to backstab someone, could I get to a particular cutscene, and have the Khan say something different, when he's talking to your uncle about the tactics Jin is using. And the reason I thought this might be tracked separately, is that after that tutorial backstab, the various "dishonorable" methods of combat you learn, the first time you do them, by your own choice as the player, it goes to a cutscene, where your uncle is teaching young Jin, why that is a bad thing to do. So I thought "ok so, it's actually accounting for my actions, if I don't do these things, will it let me change the narrative? Sadly, no. And that IS one of my biggest gripes with the game. I don't have a problem with them controlling the narrative, and telling it how THEY want to, and I'm just there to enjoy the sequences, and choose how quiet/loud I do them, that's fine. But those little tidbits, hinted at having more agency, and I was intrigued. But it's not there. Jin's path into a non-bushido way of fighting the mongols, is very scripted, from start to finish. And while it's not a problem itself, it does disappoint me a bit.

Again, I don't have an issue with this, and the serious tone of the game, even with the long runtime. It didn't feel out of place to me. They are an occupied island, slowly being butchered by some horrible people, all of them dealing with very recent grief and loss. So I don't really expect a lot of levity, from anyone really. I felt they balanced the comedy/drama accurately for what they were going for. So I didn't mind it.
 
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hanselthecaretaker

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I wonder if they could update the game for PS5 someday to include haptics, where the controller itself will simulate wind movement and you’ll feel the gentle directional breeze through the controller. That would be pretty awesome.
 

CriticalGaming

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I wonder if they could update the game for PS5 someday to include haptics, where the controller itself will simulate wind movement and you’ll feel the gentle directional breeze through the controller. That would be pretty awesome.
I'm playing on PS5 and they did update the game for the system. But not the haptics as I think the core code would have to change to support it. It does run at a solid 60 fps and the graphics have been cleaned up even more for the new system though.