Roe v Wade discussions in the supreme court.

Specter Von Baren

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Hades

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So only 27% of the population wants stricter abortion rules but a stacked supreme court of far right activists nominated by a minority far right president and confirmed by a conservative senate which also only represents a minority can get to dictate that there should be stricter abortion rules.

Something has gone horribly wrong here. The clear minority is terrorizing the majority.

And a law has been in place for almost fifty years but it can get repealed on the basis that far right activists on the supreme court are against abortion?

Something has gone horribly wrong here.

Both the political and judicial institutions of the US seem to be in a state of utter collapse. When the clear majority get terrorized you can't speak of a democracy(nor a Republic) and if decades of legal precedents can get overturned because of political judges that got installed by partisan loyalist then you can't speak of a functioning legal system either.
 

SilentPony

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I mean the Supreme court has long since become just a political circus show. It has nothing to do with interpretations of the Constitution or application of Law. Its just about political operatives being in permanent positions of power. And the GOP is simply better at breaking what few rules remain to get their operatives in position.

Its sad. Maybe 40% of women in the US shouldn't have voted for Trump in 2016. Would have saved 3 seats from going to the GOP.
 
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Adam Jensen

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Vaccine mandates and abortion are not comparable. One concerns only the life and the body of one person, because a fetus is not the same thing as a live human being. It's a fuckin' fetus. It is worthless. The other concerns the well-being of all citizens and even humanity as a whole. That being said, I am generally not in favor of vaccine mandates. But sometimes they are necessary. Still, I believe that there are other ways of convincing people to get the vaccine that don't require giving the government that kind of power over its citizens. It's a complex issue, unlike abortion.
 
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MrCalavera

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My thought is that using vaccine analogy is purely instrumental and coincidental. Conservatives wanted to ban abortion way before global pandemic was anyone's concern.
 

Specter Von Baren

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One woman getting an abortion doesn't cause anyone else to abort. One person not getting a vaccine could kill many others.
???? That's not what that quote was talking about? It's fair to disagree with it but actually disagree with it.

My thought is that using vaccine analogy is purely instrumental and coincidental. Conservatives wanted to ban abortion way before global pandemic was anyone's concern.
A fair argument.
 

SilentPony

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Vaccine mandates and abortion are not comparable. One concerns only the life and the body of one person, because a fetus is not the same thing as a live human being. It's a fuckin' fetus. It is worthless. The other concerns the well-being of all citizens and even humanity as a whole. That being said, I am generally not in favor of vaccine mandates. But sometimes they are necessary. Still, I believe that there are other ways of convincing people to get the vaccine that don't require giving the government that kind of power over its citizens. It's a complex issue, unlike abortion.
Here's the thing - the Government already has the power. Want to send your kids to public school? Government mandated vaccine requirements. Want to join the military? Government mandated vaccine requirements. Want to work in the service industry? Government mandated vaccine requirements. Want to travel to another country and be allowed back in? Government mandated vaccine requirements. Want to work in law enforcement and other first responders? Government mandated vaccine requirements. Want to work in health care? Government mandated vaccine requirements.

The only difference now is that if Republicans admit Covid requires a vaccine requirement, they're admitting Trump did a bad job during the pandemic. And that goes against the narrative that Trump lost the election because of cheating, rather than the American people deciding he wasn't fit for a pandemic world. So vaccine mandates are suddenly, and solely the Covid one, now an attack on freedom and 'Merica! Because it has nothing to do with freedom or public safety, and entirely to do with who is President. If Trump was president and calling for a vaccine requirement, the GOP would be giving them out at Sunday Church and guzzling it with beer funnels. But because its Biden, getting the vaccine is tantamount to admitting defeat in the election.
 
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tstorm823

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So only 27% of the population...
Did you just substitute the rate of registered Republicans for the percentage of people for stricter abortion laws? I was going to answer your post with a nuanced comment about how the percentage of Americans is less important than the percentage of Mississippians, as repealing Roe v. Wade wouldn't directly make abortion laws stricter, just allow states to determine that themselves, but there's not really need to go that far if you're going to just use the wrong statistics.
 
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Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
This reminds me of Blair White saying that trump would be a friend to trans people then having to give an apology after he banned them from the military. A good number of people who voted for him assumed nothing would be done against abortion, but here we are. Guess what women, your wombs belong to the state, so have fun with that.
 
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Hades

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Did you just substitute the rate of registered Republicans for the percentage of people for stricter abortion laws? I was going to answer your post with a nuanced comment about how the percentage of Americans is less important than the percentage of Mississippians, as repealing Roe v. Wade wouldn't directly make abortion laws stricter, just allow states to determine that themselves, but there's not really need to go that far if you're going to just use the wrong statistics.
I actually used the number cited in my local newspaper. And other numbers seem a bit higher but not by all that much.

As for doing it directly or indirectly. Its not like it makes much of a difference. Everyone knows the end goal and what Republicans will do when they can get to decide.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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This reminds me of Blair White saying that trump would be a friend to trans people then having to give an apology after he banned them from the military. A good number of people who voted for him assumed nothing would be done against abortion, but here we are. Guess what women, your wombs belong to the state, so have fun with that.
Trans people weren't banned from the military though. People on prescriptive drugs or hormones can't which is just a further elaboration on already existing restrictions because in a combat scenario where someone could get injured and then need some kind of drug treatment, them being on preexisting drugs can mess that up and if they get cut off from something vital then they could become a burden to their allies.
 

Worgen

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Trans people weren't banned from the military though. People on prescriptive drugs or hormones can't which is just a further elaboration on already existing restrictions because in a combat scenario where someone could get injured and then need some kind of drug treatment, them being on preexisting drugs can mess that up and if they get cut off from something vital then they could become a burden to their allies.
" Under the new policy, which the Department of Defense has insisted is not a “ban,” currently serving transgender individuals who have already received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria may continue to serve in their preferred gender, receive hormone treatments and undergo gender-affirming surgery. But after Friday, anyone with gender dysphoria who is taking hormones or has already undergone a gender transition will not be allowed to enlist. Further, any currently serving troops diagnosed with gender dysphoria after this date will have to serve in their sex as assigned at birth and will be barred from taking hormones or getting gender-affirming surgery. "


So, I guess its not a ban as long as a trans person doesn't do any trans shit while in the military. Its bullshit and it always was bullshit, we already did studies on how trans military personal would effect military readiness and found there was minimal impact.
 
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Specter Von Baren

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" Under the new policy, which the Department of Defense has insisted is not a “ban,” currently serving transgender individuals who have already received a diagnosis of gender dysphoria may continue to serve in their preferred gender, receive hormone treatments and undergo gender-affirming surgery. But after Friday, anyone with gender dysphoria who is taking hormones or has already undergone a gender transition will not be allowed to enlist. Further, any currently serving troops diagnosed with gender dysphoria after this date will have to serve in their sex as assigned at birth and will be barred from taking hormones or getting gender-affirming surgery. "


So, I guess its not a ban as long as a trans person doesn't do any trans shit while in the military. Its bullshit and it always was bullshit, we already did studies on how trans military personal would effect military readiness and found there was minimal impact.
I thought one only needed to present as a chosen gender that is not their biological sex to be considered trans? And it's not bullshit, wtf do you think the point of the military is? You think some squad of troops cut off from their supply line is going to be able to ask whoever they're fighting to kindly let them get hormones for their transitioned squadmate???
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.
I thought one only needed to present as a chosen gender that is not their biological sex to be considered trans? And it's not bullshit, wtf do you think the point of the military is? You think some squad of troops cut off from their supply line is going to be able to ask whoever they're fighting to kindly let them get hormones for their transitioned squadmate???
Sounds like you would also make that argument against women in the military. You are just making old arguments that don't hold water.

 
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Silvanus

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And it's not bullshit, wtf do you think the point of the military is? You think some squad of troops cut off from their supply line is going to be able to ask whoever they're fighting to kindly let them get hormones for their transitioned squadmate???
This never happened, not once, did it? But you know what did happen? Acting, trained servicemen and women were kicked out of the military, wasting available personnel and letting thousands of hours of invested training time and resources go to waste.

The Trump administration excelled at creating bogus complaints to rally his base against certain demographics, and fabricating problems where none were before. That's real grievance culture.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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This never happened, not once, did it? But you know what did happen? Acting, trained servicemen and women were kicked out of the military, wasting available personnel and letting thousands of hours of invested training time and resources go to waste.
A necessary sacrifice to those who see the military as a reflection of their machismo. You don't need mission readiness; just manly men with big guns.
 
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meiam

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Roe V Wade was always a poor solution to abortion, it would have been better to craft a law (or even better amend the constitution) explicitly making it legal rather than some tortuous logic about it being a privacy issue. The left also fucked up, abortion became popular once people realize that banning abortion just meant women would get back alley one and die in the process. Changing the discourse to one about choice made sure it would never become accepted by the rest of the nation.

But yeah, USA government is crafted in a way where a small minority of people can easily dictate what the majority can do, the republican understand this well and democrat do not (or rather, are too focus on petty squable to fix that issue during the few moments where they have real power). Hopefully this lead the democrat to figure out a way to reform the supreme court, they really only need to convince a few people in the senate to pack it which would let them reform it (and the election system too). Bah who am I kidding, they'll just squabble on pointless crap instead, right in time to lose all power until... maybe 2032 (assuming republican don't use their power to stack the election even more in their favour so they rule forever)?
 

tstorm823

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abortion became popular once people realize that banning abortion just meant women would get back alley one and die in the process.
People "realizing" something doesn't make it true.
 

Silvanus

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People "realizing" something doesn't make it true.
Except that is true, isn't it? Criminalising abortion demonstrably drives desperate people (primarily the poor, who cannot afford to travel long distances) to turn to illegal practices. The stats bear that out.