Rush Limbaugh finally dead!

Bartholen

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Its always a shame when good people die young, and bad people seemingly live forever.
To have some consolation, he died well below the average male life expectancy, so there's that.

Having given this some thought, I've come to think that the whole "don't speak ill of the dead" thing might be utter and complete, and actually harmful, bullshit. If we start whitewashing the legacy of monsters immediately after they've died , what the fuck are we ever going to learn from history? And what kind of message is that sending anyway? "Feel free to be an unrepentant piece of shit all your life because people will only try to remember the good stuff"? No. When it comes to the calibre of people like Limbaugh, both in terms of the vileness of his message and the extent of his outreach, we should be reciting every wretched, evil thing he said for the past 15 years to make sure he's remembered in history the way he deserves to: as a vile, repugnant, hateful, bigoted exploitative waste of skin whose passing made the world better.
 

Gethsemani

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Having given this some thought, I've come to think that the whole "don't speak ill of the dead" thing might be utter and complete, and actually harmful, bullshit. If we start whitewashing the legacy of monsters immediately after they've died , what the fuck are we ever going to learn from history? And what kind of message is that sending anyway? "Feel free to be an unrepentant piece of shit all your life because people will only try to remember the good stuff"? No. When it comes to the calibre of people like Limbaugh, both in terms of the vileness of his message and the extent of his outreach, we should be reciting every wretched, evil thing he said for the past 15 years to make sure he's remembered in history the way he deserves to: as a vile, repugnant, hateful, bigoted exploitative waste of skin whose passing made the world better.
I think there's a distinct difference between criticizing the dead for the deeds they did while alive and openly gloating that someone is dead. We can criticze Limbaugh for his hateful rhetoric, for paving the way for the bi-partisan issues in the USA, for opening up for "fake news" and laying all the groundwork for the alt right. That doesn't make it right or good to burn Limbaugh effigies in the street while popping Champagne and dancing on his grave.
 
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SilentPony

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I think there's a distinct difference between criticizing the dead for the deeds they did while alive and openly gloating that someone is dead. We can criticze Limbaugh for his hateful rhetoric, for paving the way for the bi-partisan issues in the USA, for opening up for "fake news" and laying all the groundwork for the alt right. That doesn't make it right or good to burn Limbaugh effigies in the street while popping Champagne and dancing on his grave.
Why? If someone is hateful and openly, proudly made the world a worse place while they were alive, why shouldn't we celebrate their deaths? People celebrate beating cancer, and caner is alive, is just happens to make you a worse place while its alive. If someone was a cancer on society and the human world as a whole, why shouldn't we celebrate? What do we owe their corpse, and how did they come to deserve it? That someone was merely a human in life is no reason to forgive them in death.

And we're talking about someone who celebrated the deaths of gays and Muslims, and the Golden Rule says to treat others as we would want to be treated. So naturally we can assume Rush was treating dead gays as he himself would want to be treated in death.
 

dreng3

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I think there's a distinct difference between criticizing the dead for the deeds they did while alive and openly gloating that someone is dead. We can criticze Limbaugh for his hateful rhetoric, for paving the way for the bi-partisan issues in the USA, for opening up for "fake news" and laying all the groundwork for the alt right. That doesn't make it right or good to burn Limbaugh effigies in the street while popping Champagne and dancing on his grave.
The man literally claimed that lung cancer and smoking wasn't connected the goes on to die of lung cancer caused by smoking.
It isn't wrong to appreciate and comment on the irony therein.
 

happyninja42

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Why? If someone is hateful and openly, proudly made the world a worse place while they were alive, why shouldn't we celebrate their deaths? People celebrate beating cancer, and caner is alive, is just happens to make you a worse place while its alive. If someone was a cancer on society and the human world as a whole, why shouldn't we celebrate? What do we owe their corpse, and how did they come to deserve it? That someone was merely a human in life is no reason to forgive them in death.

And we're talking about someone who celebrated the deaths of gays and Muslims, and the Golden Rule says to treat others as we would want to be treated. So naturally we can assume Rush was treating dead gays as he himself would want to be treated in death.
Agreed, if he showed any hint of actually changing his ways prior to death, I might agree. I do believe that people always have the capacity to change, and can at one point, be a total asshole, but learn to be better. But Limbaugh didn't do that. He went to the grave, believing and spouting all the hateful shit he had been peddling for decades. So I have zero problem with saying I'm glad he's dead in that case.
 
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Gethsemani

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Why? If someone is hateful and openly, proudly made the world a worse place while they were alive, why shouldn't we celebrate their deaths?
Because two wrongs doesn't make a right. There's an irony, and not the amusing kind, in hating someone because they are hateful. Being the bigger person some times suck, especially when you need to act decent to shitbags like Limbaugh, but not being so is stooping to his level. You hate him because he celebrated the death of gay people, so what makes you celebrating his death different? That he was a piece of shit human being? That is almost certainly what he thought about the gay people who's deaths he rejoiced about.
 

Xprimentyl

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I'm won't say I'm happy he's dead, but I will say I'm glad that the air he would have breathed is going to better use.
 

happyninja42

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Because two wrongs doesn't make a right. There's an irony, and not the amusing kind, in hating someone because they are hateful. Being the bigger person some times suck, especially when you need to act decent to shitbags like Limbaugh, but not being so is stooping to his level. You hate him because he celebrated the death of gay people, so what makes you celebrating his death different? That he was a piece of shit human being? That is almost certainly what he thought about the gay people who's deaths he rejoiced about.
I am the bigger person than him, in that I haven't peddled lies and hate speech for profit, and weaponized an entire demographic of a country with faleshoods and bigotry, pointing them at the rest of the world and damn the consequences. The idea that we have to be nice and tolerate them, regardless of how hateful and vitriolic they get, is part of the reason why we are in the situation we are currently in, in the US. And I'm frankly as tired of hearing it as I am from that side, suddenly shouting for "calls for unity in these troubled times", when THEY are the ones that fostered the divisions. Fuck them, and fuck Limbaugh. I'm glad he's dead.

The difference is that his reason for celebrating the death of the gays he mocked on his show, is based in utter idiocy and falsehoods. He propped up a bullshit religious rationale for why they are evil, and sinful, and worthy of mockery and their deaths, and basically every other negative thing his ilk have claimed about those they label as sinners. And all of it is predicated on a belief based in magical bullshit and superstition. Whereas OUR reasons for hating on Limbaugh, are actually justified, in that we have proof that he was an unrepentant shitbag, as he literally broadcast it to the world on a daily basis, and published it in book form, and sold it to the masses for them to eat up.

So again, fuck him, and fuck them. The day the republicans can actually PROVE their god is even fucking real, and not just an invisible sky daddy that they use to justify all their bigotry and hate, and THEN prove that yes this actually IS his interpretation of how these people should be treated, I will stay say they are horrible people, and still tell them to fuck off. They insulate their hate in the trappings of faith and religion, and then use the laws to protect them from any criticism of their statements, as "well that's just what I believe" Well I don't give a shit what you believe, if it's hateful and harmful to people, then I have zero sympathy for you reaping the rewards of that kind of behavior. And I especially have zero sympathy, if it's based on imaginary bullshit, that you can't prove a single bit of.

I won't actively try and kill them, and I won't support any movement to actively try and purge them or anything, but I will not shed a single tear at their passing, and, depending on how horrible of a person they were, I WILL, and did, smile to myself, and do a little dance of joy. And sleep soundly at the end of the night after doing so.
 

SilentPony

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Because two wrongs doesn't make a right. There's an irony, and not the amusing kind, in hating someone because they are hateful. Being the bigger person some times suck, especially when you need to act decent to shitbags like Limbaugh, but not being so is stooping to his level. You hate him because he celebrated the death of gay people, so what makes you celebrating his death different? That he was a piece of shit human being? That is almost certainly what he thought about the gay people who's deaths he rejoiced about.
That is horseshit and you know it. You're not describing being a bigger person, you're describing being a victim. Turn the other cheek so they can hit you again. Standing up to bad people isn't wrong, its in fact right. Celebrating the death of bad people isn't wrong, its right.
Yes Rush thought gays were sinners, thought being gay was a choice and they should be "fixed". But we know that's wrong. We have the science behind being gay isn't a choice, and we know conversion therapy is just torture. Celebrating the death of someone like that isn't wrong, his corpse isn't inherently good now, and his memory isn't going to grow fonder with rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

Rush Limbaugh was a bad person, and thinking its wrong to celebrate his death is nothing more than trying to excuse him in life. Its an attempt to say humans are inherently good and upon death all sins are forgiven, and that's Church shit. He doesn't get forgiveness in death anymore than he did in life. To those of us who don't believe in a wibbly wobbly space god, Rush's existence right now as a corpse is no different than when he was gasping his last as cancer ate away at his lungs; scumbag who deserves it.

There is no moral justification for forgiving the dead, no reward or accomplishment. At best its an attempt to earn brownie points for a wibbly wobbly space god, and at worst setting precedent for one's own death and forgiveness of sins.
 

Gethsemani

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That is horseshit and you know it. You're not describing being a bigger person, you're describing being a victim. Turn the other cheek so they can hit you again. Standing up to bad people isn't wrong, its in fact right. Celebrating the death of bad people isn't wrong, its right.
Read my argument again. I am not advocating meekly letting Limbaugh, or anyone else, spout whatever bullshit they like. Argue with them all you like, get mad at them, fight with them, make their public appearances living hell with all the shit you kick up whenever they open their mouths. But realize that when you celebrate the death of someone you can't fault them for doing the same to someone else, no matter how much you think your reason for hating them is more valid then their reason for hating those other people.

The argument you're peddling is that if you think the other person is a piece of shit by your subjective metric you've got the right to be mean spirited and vindictive because they deserve it, but when they think someone is a piece of shit by their subjective metric they're wrong and thus a nasty piece of shit. It is all the same shitty treatment of other people, because everyone feels that their morality is superior to those that they are vindictive assholes against.

There is no moral justification for forgiving the dead, no reward or accomplishment. At best its an attempt to earn brownie points for a wibbly wobbly space god, and at worst setting precedent for one's own death and forgiveness of sins.
Yeah, I am not saying forgive him. I am saying that if you are dancing on his grave you've got no moral justification for condemning him for dancing on somebody else's. You don't get an exception just because you think you are right and better then him.

In extension, it is also about having a functional democracy because the very most building block of that is that we respect those that have differing opinions to our own, no matter how disgusting, vile or stupid we find them. If we don't, we get the kind of escalating rhetoric that we've seen all over the western world for the past decade and a half and a slow but steady erosion of democracy in favor of bi-partisan bullshit and constant shit smearing of the other side. That's how we end up with Trump in charge, because he embodies the ideal that we are better then the people we don't like and get to do unto them whatever we like while getting offended if they reciprocate in kind.
 

Casual Shinji

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Something tells me Rush Limbaugh would've greatly enjoyed people arguing whether or not his death should be celebrated, and the only regret he would have is the inability to point and scream 'See, the Left is celebrating death! They're psychos! This is the TRUTH people!!!'
 

Seanchaidh

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Yeah, I am not saying forgive him. I am saying that if you are dancing on his grave you've got no moral justification for condemning him for dancing on somebody else's.
Except you're not accounting for the argument that he deserves it, whereas the people he celebrated dying didn't

in conclusion, fuck Rush Limbaugh and fuck his family for loving him.
 
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SilentPony

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Okay then in your opinion is it wrong to celebrate the death of Hitler? Sure we THINK he was a bad person, and in our OPINION the Holocaust was bad, but that's all subjective. Am I allowed to be glad he's dead?
What about Jack the Ripper? I THINK its wrong to carve up women like beef steak, but that's just an opinion. Am I allowed to be glad he's dead?

I can totally celebrate the death of someone, while also condemning their celebration of death and maintain a moral high ground. Watch.
Fuck Rush Limbaugh, I'm glad he's dead, he was a fuck of a human for thinking God was punishing Gays with Aids for being Gay, and I'm a better person than him. See? Its really easy when you remember some people, like myself, are better and more moral than others, like Rush.
See the distinction is I'm not condemning the act of celebrating death. I'm condemning who, why and for what reason death is celebrated. Celebrating gays dying for being gay is a terrible thing. Celebrating someone who celebrates that dying isn't.

And to your functioning Democracy point, that's horseshit as well. Tolerance is not absolute, case in point intolerance. A democracy does not tolerate people trying to overthrow it. Lawmakers do not tolerate people threatening to kill them. Not every opinion or phrase is equal. You and I can have different opinions on tax law, or the public school system, but where we can't is if I should be alive. Or if gays should be tortured. Rush in life was a person who openly advocated for the end of the US Democracy, for the torture and mutilation of gays and Muslims, and helped fan the flames of racism, sexism, anti-Semitism, and a whole bunch of other -isms.
That's not someone who gets the whole peace of the grave shit. To quote Gladiator, "What we do in life echoes in eternity" I take this to mean you have one life, and how you live it is the only way people will remember you. And in that light, looking at Rush's life, being sad he was alive, the only moral response of a truly moral person is to be glad he is dead.
And if that's too hard, think on this: a moral person would be concerned with the moral present of the human race, how moral are we as a collective, and they would want that morality to grow stronger, higher, more moral for lack of a better term. This moral person if they could see the collective human moral as a value, a number for example, would have noticed the death of Rush Limbaugh caused that number to tick up ever so slightly. Not a lot as he was only one human for 70 years of our collective timeline, but an uptick none the less. A moral person would celebrate that.
So if its too morally questionable to celebrate his death for you, simply celebrate that humans are slightly more moral for him not being alive anymore.
 

Gethsemani

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Its really easy when you remember some people, like myself, are better and more moral than others, like Rush.
I mean, this moral exceptionalism is explicitly what I object to. Good job on writing that much without understanding the ethical issue at the core of the argument.
 

Cheetodust

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Because two wrongs doesn't make a right. There's an irony, and not the amusing kind, in hating someone because they are hateful. Being the bigger person some times suck, especially when you need to act decent to shitbags like Limbaugh, but not being so is stooping to his level.
Being the bigger person is how the good guys keep on losing.

You hate him because he celebrated the death of gay people, so what makes you celebrating his death different? That he was a piece of shit human being? That is almost certainly what he thought about the gay people who's deaths he rejoiced about.
Because gay people don't cause harm to people just by existing. Being gay and being a homophobic, racist, lying sack of shit aren't actually the same thing you see.
 

SilentPony

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I mean, this moral exceptionalism is explicitly what I object to. Good job on writing that much without understanding the ethical issue at the core of the argument.
The core of your argument is wrong, its a poor understanding of morality. It implies being moral and immoral are equals because everyone is separate from one another. That there is no such thing as morally right or morally wrong, because its all a matter of opinion. And that's a poor understanding of morality.

So answer my question: do you think it is morally wrong to celebrate the death of Hitler?
 

Cheetodust

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Here's one major difference between me and Rush Limbaugh. I never would have actually supported anyone murdering him. I wouldn't have encouraged people to harm him. I will however acknowledge that the world is better without him in it.
 
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Gergar12

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Tucker Carlson is arguably more worst and more dangerous. Rush was just a radio host.
 
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