Rush Limbaugh finally dead!

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,515
982
118
Corner of No and Where
Tucker Carlson is arguably more worst and more dangerous. Rush was just a radio host.
I mean maybe currently because for the last few years Rush had been a decaying sack of cancer and pain killers that farted out racists stuff, but 5-6 years ago Rush was doing serious damage, and had the previous some 30 years to boot. And Tucker is just a new anchor. Doubtless in 30 years when Tucker is dying of cancer and pooping himself, there will be some right-wing firebrand personality convincing the base that electric cars are turning their dogs gay, and Tucker will be seen as just a new personality.
 

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
5,618
1,101
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
Tucker Carlson is arguably more worst and more dangerous. Rush was just a radio host.
Rush targeted GOP members and took them out so he could turntbe party.

Tucker riles up the base and sends them to target non-GOP.

So for anyone left of the GOP it makes no difference. Rush was better at shaping the GOP. So you couldnt get a Tucker Carlson without Rush's. But Rush hasn't been that important for over a decade
 

Bartholen

At age 6 I was born without a face
Legacy
Jul 1, 2020
82
110
38
Country
Finland
In extension, it is also about having a functional democracy because the very most building block of that is that we respect those that have differing opinions to our own, no matter how disgusting, vile or stupid we find them. If we don't, we get the kind of escalating rhetoric that we've seen all over the western world for the past decade and a half and a slow but steady erosion of democracy in favor of bi-partisan bullshit and constant shit smearing of the other side. That's how we end up with Trump in charge, because he embodies the ideal that we are better then the people we don't like and get to do unto them whatever we like while getting offended if they reciprocate in kind.
Trump's (hopefully only) term in office should really have shot this kind of enlightened centrist thinking in the head, burned it, and buried it in the Mariana Trench. He made everything worse, including possibly the most historically colossal fuck-up of any US president ever with the coronavirus, escalated international tensions and facilitated the rise of right-wing authoritarianism across the globe, all on his watch. And still, and still, he managed to get over 70 million people out to vote for him. If that's not an indication that reconciliation, unity, both sides, whatever term you wanna use, is not an option with these people, I don't know what is. They will not relent, they will not listen, they will not learn. They will drag the whole world screaming into bloody oblivion if we let them, and it is imperative that they be ousted from power and made obsolete for all eternity. No, their viewpoints should not be considered. No, their opinions should not be respected. No, their words should be not listened to, because all of it is bullshit! None of these people talk about balancing the budget, or making sure government money goes to the right channels, or whatever "small government" is meant to mean. It's all conspiracy theories, culture war bullshit, misinformation, blatant xenophobia, racism, fascism, every single possible evil you can imagine, non-stop.

And note that I'm saying all of this as a non-US citizen. Despite not having any power to change these things, I understand the stakes we are dealing with. You really want a world where China will be the one in charge, because they at least take global warming seriously, and at some point (about 15 years ago) that has to take center stage globally? At that point democracy may no longer be an option, because we're dealing with the survival of the fucking species. And I'm not too keen on a global, eco-fascist police state, thank you very much.

So in summation: fuck civility politics, stop playing defense for these people and fuck republicans.
 

ObsidianJones

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 29, 2020
972
1,160
98
Country
United States
Why? If someone is hateful and openly, proudly made the world a worse place while they were alive, why shouldn't we celebrate their deaths? People celebrate beating cancer, and caner is alive, is just happens to make you a worse place while its alive. If someone was a cancer on society and the human world as a whole, why shouldn't we celebrate? What do we owe their corpse, and how did they come to deserve it? That someone was merely a human in life is no reason to forgive them in death.

And we're talking about someone who celebrated the deaths of gays and Muslims, and the Golden Rule says to treat others as we would want to be treated. So naturally we can assume Rush was treating dead gays as he himself would want to be treated in death.
This wasn't to me, but I would like to answer.

I could trot out the mentality that is now considered trite that we don't stand on moral ground unless we've done moral things. Personally, I'm not one for pushing that boundary. But to each, their own.

I do not want to clean his slate now that he's dead. As everyone else should be, he should be judged for his actions and his esteem should reflect as such. I judge Rush poorly. Even if he lasted another year and attempted to use every waking second of that time to right his wrongs, he still would have had needed at least thirty more years to begin to atone for the hatred and bigotry he sowed.

But our actions reflected to us is how we are judged as well.

For his AIDS update, what if he mocked a gay man who died who was a truly vile person? Do we get to side with Rush at that time? Do we give him a pass like "Well... yeah, that Dude is was a devil. It's not cool that you're happy that he died because he's gay, but he was a criminal so yeah, we're on the same page on this"? Where is the moral line? I can't understand reviling someone for something and then doing the same exact thing back to them. Are we not repugnant then?

In short, make no mistake about it, he was vile and odious. And given his death, not a single bit of that will ever be washed away. But if we get to hate him for his actions, and by all means do, we equally should be hated if we do the actions right back.

We do not get a pass for repugnancy because we're talking about an repugnant individual. Full Stop.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,515
982
118
Corner of No and Where
This wasn't to me, but I would like to answer.

I could trot out the mentality that is now considered trite that we don't stand on moral ground unless we've done moral things. Personally, I'm not one for pushing that boundary. But to each, their own.

I do not want to clean his slate now that he's dead. As everyone else should be, he should be judged for his actions and his esteem should reflect as such. I judge Rush poorly. Even if he lasted another year and attempted to use every waking second of that time to right his wrongs, he still would have had needed at least thirty more years to begin to atone for the hatred and bigotry he sowed.

But our actions reflected to us is how we are judged as well.

For his AIDS update, what if he mocked a gay man who died who was a truly vile person? Do we get to side with Rush at that time? Do we give him a pass like "Well... yeah, that Dude is was a devil. It's not cool that you're happy that he died because he's gay, but he was a criminal so yeah, we're on the same page on this"? Where is the moral line? I can't understand reviling someone for something and then doing the same exact thing back to them. Are we not repugnant then?

In short, make no mistake about it, he was vile and odious. And given his death, not a single bit of that will ever be washed away. But if we get to hate him for his actions, and by all means do, we equally should be hated if we do the actions right back.

We do not get a pass for repugnancy because we're talking about an repugnant individual. Full Stop.
But you still didn't explain why its repugnant. That's my argument. You all have already jumped to "Its bad to celebrate someone dying" and explain that to me. How did you get there? Who told you speaking ill of the dead was a bad thing? Ultimately it all comes back to wibbly wobbly space gods and the idea of an afterlife; that's the only reason to think of a dead person as something still around and something to not offend or speak ill of. What is the punishment for celebrating his death? Where is the cosmic scale that now hangs low?

As my post said, if we accept the Golden rule as a moral way to live, we should be glad Rush is dead because he was glad others are dead. Treat others as they want to be treated. Does it make us better than him? Yes, yes it does because morality doesn't exist in a vacuum. Who, what, when, where and why are always applied to any moral situation.

Is it wrong to hit a woman? Yes. Is it wrong to hit a woman who is trying to kill your child? No.
Should you call the cops on a black man? No. Should you call the cops on a black man who is breaking into your home? Yes.
Should you donate to charity? Yes. Should you donate to a charity like PETA that specializes in stealing and killing pets? No.

Context.

Rush was glad gay people died because he hated gay people. He was a bigot. I am glad Rush is dead because he was a bigot. That doesn't make me a bigot in return, it makes me someone who recognized and judged him accordingly.
The same action committed by two different people for two different reasons are not morally equal. That's the whole 'moral' part. Otherwise no one could ever be moral, because any action you take was taken by someone amoral at some point and all actions are equal.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kwak

ObsidianJones

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 29, 2020
972
1,160
98
Country
United States
But you still didn't explain why its repugnant. That's my argument. You all have already jumped to "Its bad to celebrate someone dying" and explain that to me. How did you get there? Who told you speaking ill of the dead was a bad thing? Ultimately it all comes back to wibbly wobbly space gods and the idea of an afterlife; that's the only reason to think of a dead person as something still around and something to not offend or speak ill of. What is the punishment for celebrating his death? Where is the cosmic scale that now hangs low?

As my post said, if we accept the Golden rule as a moral way to live, we should be glad Rush is dead because he was glad others are dead. Treat others as they want to be treated. Does it make us better than him? Yes, yes it does because morality doesn't exist in a vacuum. Who, what, when, where and why are always applied to any moral situation.

Is it wrong to hit a woman? Yes. Is it wrong to hit a woman who is trying to kill your child? No.
Should you call the cops on a black man? No. Should you call the cops on a black man who is breaking into your home? Yes.
Should you donate to charity? Yes. Should you donate to a charity like PETA that specializes in stealing and killing pets? No.

Context.

Rush was glad gay people died because he hated gay people. He was a bigot. I am glad Rush is dead because he was a bigot. That doesn't make me a bigot in return, it makes me someone who recognized and judged him accordingly.
The same action committed by two different people for two different reasons are not morally equal. That's the whole 'moral' part. Otherwise no one could ever be moral, because any action you take was taken by someone amoral at some point and all actions are equal.
I actually did explain why it was repugnant. While we disliked him for many things, on topic we reviled him for taking joy at the lost of life. Rightfully so. If we all collectively judge that as reprehensible for him, then it's reprehensible for us.

And I didn't say it's bad to talk ill of the dead. I say I don't take joy in death. Those are two different things.

I think this is more of an issue of assuming what I mean than listening to what I'm saying. I don't celebrate death. Go crazy with judgment. He deserves it. One can judge, revere, and despise every living being. It is a human thing to do. In fact, in that very comment you quoted me in, I said quite frankly that we shouldn't wipe away his slate, that he was an odious man, and that can never be washed away now. I am in fact... talking ill of the dead right now.

I don't feel less moral in telling the truth. I don't feel like I'm being harsh for speaking the truth of how he spent his life. I don't think you and/or others are being vile people for simply recounting his actions. But my personal line is drawn at the celebration. I can't say life is sacred but then make allowances for people I personally dislike.

As we all know, I hate Trump with a passion. A passion that I never knew I could feel. And I will mourn when his passing comes. Not because I suddenly erase all he's done. His actions has taken now ten of my family members. I feel violence and bitterness when I type his name. I feel rage.

But why will I mourn? Because with the power and reach he had, he could have done something with this nation. With this world. He chose vanity. He chose selfishness. He chose hatred. The failure of his life has lessened us all. In such a pitiful way that it actually brings pain deep within my chest.

Imagine the good someone with Trump's reach could have done. Yet he perverted it. He wasted it. And that brings sorrow.

But I do not feel like jumping up and down that a life is gone. I mourn wasted life.
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
14,764
655
118
For his AIDS update, what if he mocked a gay man who died who was a truly vile person? Do we get to side with Rush at that time? Do we give him a pass like "Well... yeah, that Dude is was a devil. It's not cool that you're happy that he died because he's gay, but he was a criminal so yeah, we're on the same page on this"? Where is the moral line? I can't understand reviling someone for something and then doing the same exact thing back to them. Are we not repugnant then?
If he was celebrating their death because they were a terrible person, that would be very different to celebrating their death because they were gay, whether or not they were a terrible person.

Having said that, you'd get people who'd celebrate the deaths of terrible people who "just happened" to be gay without celebrating the deaths of equally terrible straight people, even if their sexuality wasn't mentioned.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,515
982
118
Corner of No and Where
But I do not feel like jumping up and down that a life is gone. I mourn wasted life.
Most life is wasted. You have not cured cancer, and I haven't solved global warming and colonized Mars. If the bar is what we could have done with our lives, then everyone is a bad person because no one has ever reached their full potential. Its a moot point, a fantasy, an expectation of perfection. Its also meaningless.

We aren't judged by what we could have done, we're judged by what we did do. Did Rush waste his life? Yes, yes he did. Is that sad? Yes, yes it is. Is it a good thing he can no longer poison this world? Yes, yes it is. Should we be glad he's dead? Yes, yes we should.

Or to quote myself from earlier: "And if that's too hard, think on this: a moral person would be concerned with the moral present of the human race, how moral are we as a collective, and they would want that morality to grow stronger, higher, more moral for lack of a better term. This moral person if they could see the collective human moral as a value, a number for example, would have noticed the death of Rush Limbaugh caused that number to tick up ever so slightly. Not a lot as he was only one human for 70 years of our collective timeline, but an uptick none the less. A moral person would celebrate that.
So if its too morally questionable to celebrate his death for you, simply celebrate that humans are slightly more moral for him not being alive anymore."
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Trunkage

Nascent Orca
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
5,618
1,101
118
Brisbane
Gender
Cyborg
*Snipping the jumping off platform Im going to use. It's not specifically meant to be about you*
Can we stop with the critism of Obsidian being too compassionate?

I understand Rush did worse slagging off dead people than anyone here on this forum has done to him. For decades. I understand the anger.

Obsidian can still have hope that people better themselves. It's better than I can do
 

ObsidianJones

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 29, 2020
972
1,160
98
Country
United States
Most life is wasted. You have not cured cancer, and I haven't solved global warming and colonized Mars. If the bar is what we could have done with our lives, then everyone is a bad person because no one has ever reached their full potential. Its a moot point, a fantasy, an expectation of perfection. Its also meaningless.

We aren't judged by what we could have done, we're judged by what we did do. Did Rush waste his life? Yes, yes he did. Is that sad? Yes, yes it is. Is it a good thing he can no longer poison this world? Yes, yes it is. Should we be glad he's dead? Yes, yes we should.

Or to quote myself from earlier: "And if that's too hard, think on this: a moral person would be concerned with the moral present of the human race, how moral are we as a collective, and they would want that morality to grow stronger, higher, more moral for lack of a better term. This moral person if they could see the collective human moral as a value, a number for example, would have noticed the death of Rush Limbaugh caused that number to tick up ever so slightly. Not a lot as he was only one human for 70 years of our collective timeline, but an uptick none the less. A moral person would celebrate that.
So if its too morally questionable to celebrate his death for you, simply celebrate that humans are slightly more moral for him not being alive anymore."
And here is where the divide comes in. I don't strictly consider lauded accomplishments as meaningful to life. They are always great, but that isn't the end and all of it. Bringing ease to life, joy to others, or strength and support is enough to make me feel like a life is worth it.

I might not cure cancer. Given that I'm going to become a pilot, that outlook is getting dimmer by the day. However, if Curing Cancer was the endgame to Humanity, what do we do once it's cured? Do we stop making babies? Do we all hold hands and smile at the sun, knowing that we've done the impossible and we have no longer any meaning as a species?

No. We will continue on. There will be more laughter to be shared. There will be more conversations to be had. There will be more art to be made and witnessed. There will always be more to be valued.

A life has meaning when it touches someone else in a positive manner for growth. It's that simple. Will history remember me? God, I hope not. Do I need those who I've helped over the years to remember me? Didn't do it for that. But if people grew from your or my actions, there's no way that our lives were wasted. It's only when we actively try to destruct others for our benefit when a life is truly wasted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kwak

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,515
982
118
Corner of No and Where
Can we stop with the critism of Obsidian being too compassionate?

I understand Rush did worse slagging off dead people than anyone here on this forum has done to him. For decades. I understand the anger.

Obsidian can still have hope that people better themselves. It's better than I can do
I'm not criticizing Obsidian for being compassionate. The dude can mourn Rush's poor life choices as much as he wants. What I take issue with is some people thinking celebrating the death of a bad person is somehow equal to that bad person. That the death of a new born infant and the death of a serial killer are somehow equal because hey, all life is yadda yadda.
And at the end its always just wibbly wobbly space gods told them to be nice to corpses.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

ObsidianJones

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 29, 2020
972
1,160
98
Country
United States
I'm not criticizing Obsidian for being compassionate. The dude can mourn Rush's poor life choices as much as he wants. What I take issue with is some people thinking celebrating the death of a bad person is somehow equal to that bad person. That the death of a new born infant and the death of a serial killer are somehow equal because hey, all life is yadda yadda.
And at the end its always just wibbly wobbly space gods told them to be nice to corpses.
The mistake here is that you think this is about Religion. It isn't. If it was, I would say that he is with the Lord Now or whoever.

My feelings and my thoughts come from me alone.

And I'm pointing out inconsistency. If I think he is vile for celebrating the deaths of gays and people he doesn't like, I'm confused on how to feel about people I actually respect for doing the same thing. I'm sure he felt he was just in his feelings as well. And we all know he's wrong.

Should I give handwaves to people I like simply because I like them? Shouldn't I expect you to call me out, like you did and hopefully you'll continue to do, if we come at odds with ideals and such? I sincerely hope that you do. And we might not be able to convince each other, but tolerate that we just see it differently and be cool with each other.
 

SilentPony

Previously known as an alleged "Feather-Rustler"
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
10,515
982
118
Corner of No and Where
The mistake here is that you think this is about Religion. It isn't. If it was, I would say that he is with the Lord Now or whoever.

My feelings and my thoughts come from me alone.

And I'm pointing out inconsistency. If I think he is vile for celebrating the deaths of gays and people he doesn't like, I'm confused on how to feel about people I actually respect for doing the same thing. I'm sure he felt he was just in his feelings as well. And we all know he's wrong.

Should I give handwaves to people I like simply because I like them? Shouldn't I expect you to call me out, like you did and hopefully you'll continue to do, if we come at odds with ideals and such? I sincerely hope that you do. And we might not be able to convince each other, but tolerate that we just see it differently and be cool with each other.
Its not inconsistent. Its very clear and obvious and consistent. We can celebrate the death of bad people. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Context! The exact same action being made by two different people are not morally equal.

Rush celebrated the death of gay people from Aids out of a bigoted sense that gays deserve to die for Aids for being gay.
I am celebrating Rush's death specifically because of his bigoted opinions.
These two actions are not the same, because one comes from a place of bigotry and hatred towards gays, the other comes from a place of hatred towards those self same bigots.

The act itself, celebrating death, is no inherently moral or immoral. The context makes it one or the other. Who, what, when, where and why.
No act in inherently moral or immoral, the context of the act is what matters. If Rush celebrated the death of Adolf Hitler then I wouldn't hate him for that because Hitler was a bad man who deserved death, its morally okay. And if I celebrate the death of...I dunno, Japanese people because I'm xenophoic and hate the Japanese that's bad, that's immoral.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

BrawlMan

Lover of beat'em ups.
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,810
2,089
118
Detroit, Michigan
Country
United States of America
Gender
Male
@ObsidianJones I respect you for your high respect of life. I do have some similar values, but even I have my limits. You can choose to do what you do, but no one is under any moral obligation to not celebrate the death of someone so spiteful and evil. When I told my parents of Limbaugh's death: my mom said "Oh well, good bye. Won't be missing him", and my dad said "Sucks to be him". My mom especially, has even less patience for assholes like him. You can't force or change other peoples feelings on the matter. Especially those that have been hurt by Limbaugh or others exactly like him.
 
Last edited:

ObsidianJones

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 29, 2020
972
1,160
98
Country
United States
Its not inconsistent. Its very clear and obvious and consistent. We can celebrate the death of bad people. I've said it before, but I'll say it again: Context! The exact same action being made by two different people are not morally equal.

Rush celebrated the death of gay people from Aids out of a bigoted sense that gays deserve to die for Aids for being gay.
I am celebrating Rush's death specifically because of his bigoted opinions.
These two actions are not the same, because one comes from a place of bigotry and hatred towards gays, the other comes from a place of hatred towards those self same bigots.

The act itself, celebrating death, is no inherently moral or immoral. The context makes it one or the other. Who, what, when, where and why.
No act in inherently moral or immoral, the context of the act is what matters. If Rush celebrated the death of Adolf Hitler then I wouldn't hate him for that because Hitler was a bad man who deserved death, its morally okay. And if I celebrate the death of...I dunno, Japanese people because I'm xenophoic and hate the Japanese that's bad, that's immoral.
But there is the rub again: Bad People.

Bad is determined by your perception. Whatever moral stance you cling to at that time. There are people on this earth who actually think it's bad or evil to be gay. That is clearly wrong that it doesn't even bare commenting on, and yet, there are people who truly believe that gay people choose to be gay out of some sort of wickedness.

People think feminism is a sort of evil because it's disturbing the natural order of things, and children are suffering due to women's selfishness.

BLM are bad because they are making up lies about the police force and they just want to loot with an excuse.

Poor people are bad because all they want are handouts and they'll willfully subject their children to that lifestyle because they don't want to work.

The Left is a cabal bound and determined to destroy everything America is and who want to take what's rightfully 'Americans' and give them to those who don't deserve it.

Blacks have higher crime rates because they are lazy and/or predetermined to that kind of life style.

Because of morals and perception, if I died literally right now, someone would feel the world is a bit safer because of intrinsically who I am. Because I am a bad person in their minds. I believe America is a fraud, a failed PR stunt. I'm black. I believe there should be no barriers for women to have equal footing and that we need them in places of leadership because it's an all hands on deck, best and the brightest situation we have here. Because I classify gay/trans/pan people as just people and put no judgment on them.

For some people, I'm literally the evil that lays in the shadows. And in their heart of hearts, they'll praise whatever they worship when I'm cold and dead in the ground because they will think I'm not around to corrupt their way of life any more.

When we allow ourselves to pass judgment on what life matters, yeah, that's inconsistency. To us, Rush is vile and unmistakably evil. To others, he was someone who gave them hope.

For my next part, I'm shifting it to Brawlman

@ObsidianJones I respect you for your high respect of life. I do have some similar values, but even I have my limits. You can choose to do what you do, but no one is under any moral obligation to not celebrate the death of someone so spiteful and evil. When I told my parents of Limbaugh's death: my mom said "Oh well, good bye. Won't be missing him", and my dad said "Sucks to be him". My mom especially, as even less patience for assholes like him. You can't force or change other peoples feelings on the matter. Especially those that have been hurt by Limbaugh or others exactly like him.
I completely understand that no one is under any obligation to follow my path. It's hard enough for me to follow my path. I've never stated anyone should. I'm not asking you or anyone to change. I've literally said I'm just confused on why are we engaging in what we considered vile when he did it. Even though he was wrong in thinking gays were wrong or evil (and he is very wrong)... if he did believe it, our actions are giving him and other people the exact excuse to continue to do actions that we find deplorable.

The issue isn't if they are right or correct. Like I said, Spiteful and evil is relative. To the Right, AOC is Spiteful and Evil. Just her opposition of the total control of the Republican Party has people legitimately believing that she will cause the downfall of our nation. That makes her an enemy. They aren't right. But they believe that they are. And you better believe those people will celebrate if AOC dies tomorrow.

The distinctions of what lives are worth living is a dangerous road to be on. It's literally what the opposition supposedly does, and what we help us to classify as "evil".

Rush was a person that I didn't like. I supported almost nothing he said. His vileness should be stapled to any thing that references him, and it should be well known forever that he espoused and supported things that would give people pause. No one should pretend otherwise. We are in agreement of that, and I'm fine with it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan

Silvanus

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 26, 2020
5,656
1,349
118
Country
United Kingdom
Y'know, you can feel more than one way about somebody's death. Y'can feel glad that his direct negative influence on American politics/ culture has ended, and you can also feel sympathy for family members/ friends who might be grieving.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BrawlMan