Russia Suspected In Major Cyberattack On U.S. Treasury, Commerce Departments

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Is it, though?
Yes, it is.

The American public benefit to some degree from the general power and success of the USA, and US rich and corporations apply much of their power through the USA.

Russia is an oligarchy where there is virtually no difference between state, business and organised crime, which murders political opponents home and abroad. China is a de facto dictatorship which bundles its citizens into concentration camps for "re-education" in their millions, and violently suppresses protests, independent thought and democratic will. Both are patently more unpalatable regimes than the USA, with imperialist foreign policy, and are set on undermining the USA at every level imaginable: economic, military, political and civil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Russian / Chinese stooge or needs their head tested.
 

Seanchaidh

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Yes, it is.

The American public benefit to some degree from the general power and success of the USA, and US rich and corporations apply much of their power through the USA.

Russia is an oligarchy where there is virtually no difference between state, business and organised crime, which murders political opponents home and abroad. China is a de facto dictatorship which bundles its citizens into concentration camps for "re-education" in their millions, and violently suppresses protests, independent thought and democratic will. Both are patently more unpalatable regimes than the USA, with imperialist foreign policy, and are set on undermining the USA at every level imaginable: economic, military, political and civil. Anyone who thinks otherwise is either a Russian / Chinese stooge or needs their head tested.
Seems non sequitur, as undermining the stability of a tyrannical regime can actually be a good thing, no matter who does it or why. Even when some people benefit from the success of that tyranny.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Seems non sequitur, as undermining the stability of a tyrannical regime can actually be a good thing, no matter who does it or why. Even when some people benefit from the success of that tyranny.
I'm curious you choose to cite one of the main justifications used by the defenders of imperialism over the centuries for invading and subjugating other realms: deposing tyrannical leaders, bringing civilisation and stable, just rule, etc.
 

Cheetodust

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I'm curious you choose to cite one of the main justifications used by the defenders of imperialism over the centuries for invading and subjugating other realms: deposing tyrannical leaders, bringing civilisation and stable, just rule, etc.
Ends and means come to mind.
 

Gordon_4

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Why? You value Trump's opinion over evidence-based specialists?
No, because they are both regional powers who are opposed to the United States and who stand to gain by a successful penetrating attack like this.
 

Schadrach

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airgapped networks
This is one of my favorite examples of pointless jargon. After all, it's important to have a sexy technical sounding word for keeping a machine or network safe from being attacked over an external network by simply not connecting it to external networks in the first place.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Ends and means come to mind.
If your ends of higher taxes and socialised healthcare are bought by selling out geopolitical advantages to unlovely regimes like Russia and China, the means are a little on the costly side.
 

SilentPony

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No, because they are both regional powers who are opposed to the United States and who stand to gain by a successful penetrating attack like this.
I mean that's all true, and it very well could have been the Chinese from an operational stand point. Its just Trump is loyal to Russia and has gone out of his way in the past to excuse their actions or deny their involvement in things basically everyone in every intelligence agency knows the Russians did.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I mean that's all true, and it very well could have been the Chinese from an operational stand point. Its just Trump is loyal to Russia and has gone out of his way in the past to excuse their actions or deny their involvement in things basically everyone in every intelligence agency knows the Russians did.
Whilst without a detailed, forensic investigation it is hard to determine exactly who did this, I would suggest that there will be evidence likely to give a reasonable chance of identifying the suspect. No two armies will fight in exactly the same way, nor will any two hacker units hack in the same way: they will have their own tech, equipment, expertise, know-how, tactics, etc.

If analysts used to dealing with these things - and bear in mind it's not just the US government involved here - say it's Russia, there's a pretty good chance it is.
 

Seanchaidh

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I'm curious you choose to cite one of the main justifications used by the defenders of imperialism over the centuries for invading and subjugating other realms: deposing tyrannical leaders, bringing civilisation and stable, just rule, etc.
It is my prerogative as an inhabitant of this country to favor an end to tyranny.

edit:

Russia, China, whoever, please hack the shit out of these dweebs

 
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Cheetodust

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If your ends of higher taxes and socialised healthcare are bought by selling out geopolitical advantages to unlovely regimes like Russia and China, the means are a little on the costly side.
I mean my ends are the complete failure of capitalism and representative democracy.
 
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Gordon_4

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This is one of my favorite examples of pointless jargon. After all, it's important to have a sexy technical sounding word for keeping a machine or network safe from being attacked over an external network by simply not connecting it to external networks in the first place.
Jargon it may be, doesn't mean I'm wrong.
 

Seanchaidh

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I mean that's all true, and it very well could have been the Chinese from an operational stand point. Its just Trump is loyal to Russia and has gone out of his way in the past to excuse their actions or deny their involvement in things basically everyone in every intelligence agency knows the Russians did.
You're describing what every intelligence agency says "the Russians" did. We don't know what those intelligence agencies know.
 

SilentPony

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You're describing what every intelligence agency says "the Russians" did. We don't know what those intelligence agencies know.
Again sure, but I don't think the...Guernsians managed to hack the US and then we simply blamed the Russians. There's only a few nations the US wouldn't retaliate against with force, on the quiet, when something like this happens and Russia is one of them. China too. There's no real reason to blame a large super power for something when they didn't do it, because none of the smaller nations could get away with it. Some small nation hacks the US, we blame them, a few drone strikes and SEAL teams later the problem is done. The only reason to blame a power you can't do anything against is because you both know you can't do anything against them.
 

Seanchaidh

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There's no real reason to blame a large super power for something when they didn't do it, because none of the smaller nations could get away with it
Sure there is. In fact there are several or more. For example, if you want the public to believe that Russia or China poses a threat to justify more military spending, you blame them. If you want to direct focus away from domestic affairs, you blame the groups you've primed to be the big bad. The audience for these attributions is primarily the American public, and the powers that be in America have been drumming up hostility toward both Russia and China for a great while.
 

Kwak

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Sure there is. In fact there are several or more. For example, if you want the public to believe that Russia or China poses a threat to justify more military spending, you blame them. If you want to direct focus away from domestic affairs, you blame the groups you've primed to be the big bad. The audience for these attributions is primarily the American public, and the powers that be in America have been drumming up hostility toward both Russia and China for a great while.
So it's indistinguishable from the situation when Russia or China actually do have hostile intent and pose a threat.
 

Seanchaidh

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So it's indistinguishable from the situation when Russia or China actually do have hostile intent and pose a threat.
Aside from the positioning of US military bases around the globe, the naval and air supremacy of the United States, the massively higher military spending by the United States, the fact that the United States does the same shit they accuse others of to nowhere near the same volume of media reaction, and so on and so forth, yeah, sure, exactly the same.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Aside from the positioning of US military bases around the globe, the naval and air supremacy of the United States, the massively higher military spending by the United States, the fact that the United States does the same shit they accuse others of to nowhere near the same volume of media reaction, and so on and so forth, yeah, sure, exactly the same.
Taking into account that China is widely believed to conceal the full scale of its military spending (as much as 50% higher than official figures), and that it gets more bang for its buck due to things like PPP and lower labour costs, the argument exists that China potentially outspends the USA.
 

Seanchaidh

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Taking into account that China is widely believed to conceal the full scale of its military spending (as much as 50% higher than official figures), and that it gets more bang for its buck due to things like PPP and lower labour costs, the argument exists that China potentially outspends the USA.
Given that the raw numbers are that China spends something like 40%, that would be a pretty silly conclusion to draw.