Russia Tells U.S. to Use A Trampoline to Send Its Astronauts to the ISS

[Do4600]

To protect ethnic Russians. Not to mention that Crimea voted to be part of Russia.

If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Just because they have a democracy doesn't mean Crimea can legally pass a referendum in which they secede. The referendum was illegal. There is no reason for the state government of Ukraine to recognize an illegal referendum. If the state government doesn't recognize the vote then Crimea legally still belongs to Ukraine. Ordering troops to secure a region which still legally belongs to another country is annexation, even it it happens to be region with a population that agrees with it.

On a mere technicality. As for state government, of course they won't recognize it, what country wants to have LESS territories?
That's democracy for you: it's only good when it's on your side, otherwise bureaucracy wins.
Oh, and apparently ethnic Russians can all die at the hands of Banderovtsy for all the world cares. It's 2008's South Ossetia all over again.

How does the obviousness of Ukraine denying Crimea's succession invalidate the point that it's illegal, which makes Russian's action in the province an illegal annexation of a sovereign nation? A technicality doesn't invalidate the law. If ethnic Russians began to die it would be a genocide, and Russia would look like a hero for intervening and stopping the worst possible crime a nation can commit instead of being the perpetrator of the second worst crime a nation can commit. This is going to end up the Bosnian Crisis of 1908.

 

[Olas]

Who knows, maybe this'll get the US government to give NASA some proper funding and we can actually have our own space program once again, in which case: thanks Russia.

So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Are you just trying to be inflammatory or do you actually feel this way? I don't really want to bother discussing the merits of opposing a power hungry dictatorship that just illegally invaded a region to fuel it's bigoted leader's narcissism, I'm just curious about whether you're actually being serious, and if so what possible reasoning you could have.

 

[RealRT]

To protect ethnic Russians. Not to mention that Crimea voted to be part of Russia.

If by "annexing" you mean "Crimea wanted to join Russia instead of the clusterfuck that is the current Ukraine and people of Crimea voted for that fair and square on a referendum", then yeah, that was annexing.

Just because they have a democracy doesn't mean Crimea can legally pass a referendum in which they secede. The referendum was illegal. There is no reason for the state government of Ukraine to recognize an illegal referendum. If the state government doesn't recognize the vote then Crimea legally still belongs to Ukraine. Ordering troops to secure a region which still legally belongs to another country is annexation, even it it happens to be region with a population that agrees with it.

On a mere technicality. As for state government, of course they won't recognize it, what country wants to have LESS territories?
That's democracy for you: it's only good when it's on your side, otherwise bureaucracy wins.
Oh, and apparently ethnic Russians can all die at the hands of Banderovtsy for all the world cares. It's 2008's South Ossetia all over again.

How does the obviousness of Ukraine denying Crimea's succession invalidate the point that it's illegal, which makes Russian's action in the province an illegal annexation of a sovereign nation? A technicality doesn't invalidate the law. If ethnic Russians began to die it would be a genocide, and Russia would look like a hero for intervening and stopping the worst possible crime a nation can commit instead of being the perpetrator of the second worst crime a nation can commit. This is going to end up the Bosnian Crisis of 1908.

Yeah. Crimeans should have no right to decide which side they're on without Kiev's say-so.
It's funny how everyone started saying that the referendum doesn't count and all after the votes were counted. Almost as if it didn't reach the result they wanted.
Did Russia look like a hero when it stopped genocide the Georgians commited against the people of South Ossetia and Abkhazia? No, it was villified as all hell and when the fact that then-Georgian president (whom US supported) was nuttier than peanut butter became common knowledge, the whole thing was quietly swept under the rug.

 

[major_chaos]

So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Are you just trying to be inflammatory or do you actually feel this way? I don't really want to bother discussing the merits of opposing a power hungry dictatorship that just illegally invaded a region to fuel it's bigoted leader's narcissism, I'm just curious about whether you're actually being serious, and if so what possible reasoning you could have.

Read all my other posts in this thread. I don't want to cop a suspension and I cant seem to figure out how to not piss off the mods so unless I can get my latest warning overturned I'm done posting on anything remotely controversial for a few months.

 

[Vault101]

"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline."

Spoiler: gif

So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Good on Russia with its oppressive regimes!.....the best kind of regimes

 

[IceStar100]

Well then I guess we'll just have to build our own shuttles...armed with guns and powered by freedom.

Naw lets just skip a step and build gundams

 

[IceStar100]

I laugh at the idea that a private space sector would bring us to mars anytime soon.

Unless we have colonies and already established space travel, it won't work.

Remember when private prisons worked?

Remember when allowing charter schools worked?

Remember when private american healthcare, the laughing stock of the world, worked?

all of this has been around, and private interests failed in mature fields.

So how can we vilify privatization everywhere else but the ONE place where you SHOULDN'T cut costs? Its nice to whine about bureaucracy but the fact of the matter is that extra money is going to better parts and making sure everything works.

run out of fuel in orbit? Better sit tight, because no one going to rescue you. Private space flight in this day and age will only end up being flying coffins, lets not kid ourselves with the idea that someone with a big bag of money will come around and solve our problems when billions off our taxpayer dollars did jack shit.

They haven't done it before, it sure as hell won't happen now.

Ok not to be that guy but what are you talking about?

Privet prison do most of all the low level offenders

Privet school are all mostly shown to have more well round better educated students

If you get something like say Cancer in the USA and Canada your more likely to survive it in th USA. Which is why a lot of those free health care people go to the USA. Plus The privet health care tend to be the one that come up with advancements.

As far as no rescue why would that me between the law suit and the fact that if they ever want to make a profit again they better not let something this big out. Ever heard of shipping at cost?

Oh and before anything else this is just my view. I'm going against the idea not you. I don't know you and have nothing against you. Just though I'd add that so this stay more a debate and less an argument.

 

[rednose1]

"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline."

Spoiler: gif

So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

EDIT: quote me if you must, but I wont respond. I'm not touching anything controversial or R&P-esque until my health bar isn't in the danger zone.
heh, danger zone.

Spoiler

You said it, so it had to be done!

 

[Calbeck]

Wonderful! It's about time someone kicked Washington in the gonads and gave it a reason to seriously fund NASA.

MARS 2020, BEEYOTCHES, THERE'S YOUR RED PLANET

 

[IceStar100]

Maybe so but I worked for one GEO major player in Texas prisons and have serviced in multiple ones I'm going to only talk about Venus since it was the last on I serviced in. Escape are not a big thing because one this is min so you do that you go to a better prison. You had to earn the right to come to the prison. Also charging offenders was the judge not us. we simply housed them. The thing privet prison did was take the load off state prisons.

Also one of the reason for the cost of health care is you can't be denied it in the states and a lot of people never pay their bill. It would drop in price if it went to a fully privet or public health care it's the fence sitting that killing us.

I admit I know nothing of charter schools and to tired to google it so I will respectfully bow out on that one.

 

[Mauler]

"I propose that the United States delivers its astronauts to the ISS with the help of a trampoline."

Spoiler: gif

So nice to see a government not bend over for American interests for once. Go Russia, best of luck in the Ukraine and fuck western backed regimes in general.

Hang on?!?

Russia going all "Winter War" (look it up, it's not the first time Russia has annexed foreign territory as a bufferzone) on Ukraine is a good thing?!?

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

I don't know where that bollocks about Ukraine "belonging to Russia" came from, but fact of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia should back the fuck off.

YEs dude.... You rock... You know what the Putin now is doing(i live in Latvia(next to russia(the country that could be invaded after the Ukraine)))? He is ressurecting a USSR - like govrement of autocratic totalitarianism... He ressurected the USSR hymn(after it was changed by Yeltsin), and various celebrations that were basically pro-communism(actually the communism never was actually made... only socialism) celebrations, he manipulates the urlas(i think they are like Chavs(easeley manipulated) or ned's) and politically eradicates all of his opposition, by manipulating the non intelligent people, sheeple and the ex USSR patriots, that they arent country, but they are CIVILIZATION(yes putin called russians a civilization). He is making claims to Ukraine, that it allways belonged to Russia(yeah, well Keonigsberg belonged to Germany, but they will not give that enclave away) and so it must be liberated by sending in soldiers in civilian clothes to make revolution... And if the Ukraine retaliates on these armed "civilians" Russia will invade, to "keep peace"... I think that Latvia will be next...
P.S. i apologise for my writing style and grammar...

 

[DeaDRabbiT]

World politics is full of lies and deceit.

Always has been. The internet is simply a huge floodlight exposing it's dark underbelly for everyone to see. People get all up in arms about how crappy the US government is. It (in my opinion) used to be a lot worse. The advent of an uncontrollable outlet for news seems to have had a chilling effect on the lengths some politicians would go to win.

Hell, it's the reason B.Obama doesn't go anywhere without his teleprompters. The fact that EVERYTHING you say goes on record, and can be chopped out out of context and fed to the partisan left or right without question is pretty damn ludicrous. But it's all a part of progress. We will (hopefully) learn from it from a cultural standpoint and grow as people.

I also wanted to comment to something Higgs said about Russia taking Crimea without a shot being fired.

I think that's a pretty disingenuous take on the situation. The only reason blood wasn't spilled is because the Ukrainians were basically being forced into the ring with a 2 ton rabid gorilla. Even if they put up a good fight, they still lose because defeat is inevitable in that scenario.

No, blood wasn't spilled in Crimea because Ukraine knew they would lose much and gain nothing.

Regardless, I don't know what anyone (especially the right) expects B.O. to do. Russia is still a viable superpower, with nukes. Just like with China you don't engage in military action with them unless there is absolutely no choice. We are doing exactly the one thing we can do, and that's fuck with their money and isolate them internationally. Either they draw back or they double down to furthering consternation from abroad.

I am of the mind that this is the prelude to all out global war and in the event humanity makes it out intact will be the end of the world as we know it, thus (again, hopefully) ushering in a time of peace and community among people under one banner, language, and creed.

 

[IceStar100]

Maybe so but I worked for one GEO major player in Texas prisons and have serviced in multiple ones I'm going to only talk about Venus since it was the last on I serviced in. Escape are not a big thing because one this is min so you do that you go to a better prison. You had to earn the right to come to the prison. Also charging offenders was the judge not us. we simply housed them. The thing privet prison did was take the load off state prisons.

Also one of the reason for the cost of health care is you can't be denied it in the states and a lot of people never pay their bill. It would drop in price if it went to a fully privet or public health care it's the fence sitting that killing us.

I admit I know nothing of charter schools and to tired to google it so I will respectfully bow out on that one.

The ones I am talking about is general history. Corrections Corporation of America, the biggest private prison firm in the US (about 50% of all private prisons), has worse records than any public prison. Its even the biggest lobbyist for tough sentencing on any tiny infraction.

if they are easy to control they want to imprison them. They even admitted that they benefit from society's problems in their quarterly reports.

So tougher laws on drugs, etc are big game for them. Flood the public prisons with low level offenders, and the CCA steps in to fix a problem they lobbied to create.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corrections_Corporation_of_America

and you mean you worked for the GEO group right? had to read about them too. 2nd largest. Not as bad, sure, but that's a hard competition to win when you are going against CCA.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_prison#Lobbying

GEO group isn't clean either. Though they don't have the same record as CCA. Which is to be expected, as they are no where near the size of CCA nor do they deal with as much.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GEO_Group#Controversies

Its basically CCA and Geo group, they both make up the super majority of all private prisons. Neither of them clean.

Again I have to admit I didn't know about the pushing for stricter drug laws I am getting schooled tonight in more one then one

That all said don't act like public person are clean from time in Huntsville that death row folks. There was a shit ton of shady stuff going on. Prisoners caught beat down for simple stuff. I guess the corruption level depend on where it at. I saw a lot more "rehabilitation" going on in geo then in the state and no there is more to Huntsville then death row. Not everyone was a lifer. I still think the public prisons are better for anyone who just wants to serve their time and leave.

 

[Namehere]

We're all seriously this confused about what's going on in both Ukraine and Syria? Wow... Depressing...

Okay! Couple of years back Russia stopped having good relations with the West and NATO in general ? something to do with unchecked economic aggression and psychotic leaders. It also didn't help that Bush Jr.'s secretary of state was a Cold War expert... Sort of like getting a veterinarian to be in charge of the NTSB on the grounds that people ride horses, if you know what I mean. Around this time Russia announced it was investing in rearming as a reaction to economic and political pressures. Believe it or not, a substantial portion of Russia's population is employed as mercenaries around the world and its armed forces could be seen as a pseudo 'workfare' program. This helps keep potentially dangerously violent revolt on the back burner.

Moving ahead. Can't arm a country and keep it's forces growing for nothing, that's just bleeding out more slowly. Enter Syria; an ancient land, conquered time and again and all the more often simply used as a highway for Eastern European states ? read Russia ? into the Middle East. Syria hasn't been conquered recently of course, principally because of a fear of international Muslim outrage. Examine the factions fighting over Syria, most are Muslim organizations of one stripe or another ? this is one of their holiest regions. For any western or eastern power to roll into Syria would invite fanatical terrorism. So what is the solution? Syria is in the way, what do you do? You can't blow it up... but fanatical Muslims, the same who would attack you if you were to attack Syria? Welcome to Syria today, a country whose war is being facilitated not in support of Assad, but in the hopes that it will break the country's back and leave it a hodgepodge of waring Muslim factions that the Russians can easily march through with out consequence.

The US would dearly love to end the fighting in Syria, right now stability is in their interests ? more so then they've demonstrated they know even. However they can't commit any real naval support with out Russian agreement, the Russian navy is potent in the Med and not to be tangled with lightly, especially in the Black sea. The Russian navy turned back the US navy during operation Desert Storm merely by blockading. This brought a quick end to that war. So the obvious answer; somehow damage Russia's navy indirectly... like problems in Crimea. But predictably it's back fired.

You want to help anyone in all of this? Get some damn negotiators down to Syria, and offer blanket amnesty to all parties ? including, especially, Assad and his government and military officers. The longer that goes on the more ridiculous things will get.

For those of you who think this has anything to do with the Democracy we talk about and don't enjoy or the Communism the USSR talked about and never enjoyed... GROW UP! Pure self interest on all sides, including Assad ? and thus the need for blanket amnesty from even the ICC if he's to be peacefully removed, and I think it's pretty clear we won't be doing it militarily.

For those morally outraged at the deaths caused by the Russian Federation... read up on CIA activities in South America, they're not much more subtle and at least as bloody. Neither the US nor Russia can claim moral high ground. All one can say is that the Russian response has been horribly predictable and US agitation has done nothing but provoke it. Can two wrongs make a right? Probably not today.

Sorry for the text wall, but how do you shorten something like this?

 

[Gorrath]

While I agree that the 60 mil/passenger is an absurd price to pay, I still agree with that decision over continuing to use the shuttles. Hell, having Russia cut us off may be the best way to get our own government to rethink the NASA cuts. Essentially, I agree with you on every part except the continued use of the shuttles. What happened to Columbia was not an isolated incident.

What happened to Columbia was a lack of engineering oversight. Using it as a rallying cry to get rid of our space program entirely and "start over" as we have done is what's put us in this situation, where we realistically may not be able to gain access to space for several more years, and we're in deep trouble as far as a long-term space strategy is concerned. Not to mention that the continued cuts in other fields will place us in significant scientific jeopardy.

I'm not sure why you say that what happened to Columbia was an engineering oversight. The shedding of insulation during take off was a well documented problem that had occurred many times on missions before and after the disaster. It was believed before the Columbia accident that the wing's leading edge could withstand the impact of insulation that was being shed, but in Columbia's case it made a sizeable hole. This shedding issue occurred on both of the shuttles which took over what would have been Columbia's next two missions.

Again, I am right with you on the cuts. We should not be gutting NASA's budget, especially at a time when we need to focus on getting the shuttle's replacement up and running, but it's not simply an over reaction to Columbia that caused us to ground the shuttle program. Columbia's destruction proved a catalyst for the decision, but ultimately the cost of the shuttle program coupled with the danger the shedding problem posed left NASA's leadership with little choice. The $450 million per mission NASA was spending on the shuttle launches should be used on the development of the new vehicle, not taken away from the agency. I don't think us losing out on orbital space flights for a few years will hurt us that much if it speeds up the timetable for the new vehicle.