Russia Tells U.S. to Use A Trampoline to Send Its Astronauts to the ISS

[Zac Jovanovic]

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

I don't know where that bollocks about Ukraine "belonging to Russia" came from, but fact of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia should back the fuck off.

I don't get it, when US did pretty much the same thing not 15 years ago it was in the right?

 

[Gorrath]

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

I don't know where that bollocks about Ukraine "belonging to Russia" came from, but fact of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia should back the fuck off.

I don't get it, when US did pretty much the same thing not 15 years ago it was in the right?

The U.S. attempted to annex portions of another country? Could you link me to an article about this? Unless you're talking about Afghanistan or Iraq, neither of which was any kind of annexation. If Russia got into a military entanglement with portions of the former Yugoslavia after people from that region blew up a few thousand Russian civilians and tried to destroy the Kremlin, that might be a tad more comparable than what's going on in Ukraine.

 

[MrFalconfly]

Sorry mate, but Ukraine is not a "USA vs Russia" thing. It's Russia illegally annexing foreign territory from a sovereign country (Ukraine).

I don't know where that bollocks about Ukraine "belonging to Russia" came from, but fact of the matter is that Ukraine is a sovereign nation and Russia should back the fuck off.

I don't get it, when US did pretty much the same thing not 15 years ago it was in the right?

Please do refresh my memory.

What country (or territory) did the US annex?

I don't remember the US gaining territory in 1999.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

Please do refresh my memory.

What country (or territory) did the US annex?

I don't remember the US gaining territory in 1999.

I didn't mean annex, I meant broke every international law and violated sovereignty of a country while no one had the balls to get in their way.

I'm talking about Serbia and the Kosovo affair obviously. Which is now although "independent", for all intents and purposes an Albanian state.

I'm not saying what Russia is doing in Ukraine is right, all I'm saying is there is a painful double standard in this whole affair. And that someone has to stand up to the US and there's very few players left.

If Russia got into a military entanglement with portions of the former Yugoslavia after people from that region blew up a few thousand Russian civilians and tried to destroy the Kremlin, that might be a tad more comparable than what's going on in Ukraine.

Now, I got what you were trying to say, but that analogy couldn't make any less sense even if you tried

 

[MrFalconfly]

Please do refresh my memory.

What country (or territory) did the US annex?

I don't remember the US gaining territory in 1999.

I didn't mean annex, I meant broke every international law and violated sovereignty of a country while no one had the balls to get in their way.

I'm talking about Serbia and the Kosovo affair obviously. Which is now although "independent", for all intents and purposes an Albanian state.

I'm not saying what Russia is doing in Ukraine is right, all I'm saying is there is a painful double standard in this whole affair. And that someone has to stand up to the US and there's very few players left.

We're talking about the Kosovo War right?

The only illegal act (and that has been disputed since then) done by the NATO forces was the bombing of the Serbian TV and Radio center (it was later seen as not illegal since their mission was to destroy the Serbian ability to conduct warfare, and as such Command and Control targets were legitimate).

You do know why NATO went into Yugoslavia right?

Dude called Milo?ević had begun an ethnic cleansing in the area.

 

[Gorrath]

Please do refresh my memory.

What country (or territory) did the US annex?

I don't remember the US gaining territory in 1999.

I didn't mean annex, I meant broke every international law and violated sovereignty of a country while no one had the balls to get in their way.

I'm talking about Serbia and the Kosovo affair obviously. Which is now although "independent", for all intents and purposes an Albanian state.

I'm not saying what Russia is doing in Ukraine is right, all I'm saying is there is a painful double standard in this whole affair. And that someone has to stand up to the US and there's very few players left.

I presumed you were talking about either Afghanistan or Iraq. I can't say I've ever heard anyone (Outside of nation-states) condemn our involvement in the former Yugoslavia, considering the mission was entirely based on humanitarian aims and the prevention of ethnic cleansing. Considering that I served with KFOR along side everyone from the British to the UAE during those operations and considering the aims and goals of those operations, any comparison to the essentially unilateral invasion of Ukraine by Russia is laughable.

If Russia got into a military entanglement with portions of the former Yugoslavia after people from that region blew up a few thousand Russian civilians and tried to destroy the Kremlin, that might be a tad more comparable than what's going on in Ukraine.

Now, I got what you were trying to say, but that analogy couldn't make any less sense even if you tried [/quote]

Indeed, the analogy makes no sense if you're referencing Kosovo, which at the time I wrote it, I didn't think you were. It's a fair comparison to our operations in the Middle East but makes 0 sense in relation to the former Yugoslavia.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

You do know why NATO went into Yugoslavia right?

Dude called Milo?ević had begun an ethnic cleansing in the area.

I started typing a post but I just don't have the strength for it anymore. I'm the least patriotic person I know and the topic makes me physically ill.

Let me just say that whatever you think you saw in the news I lived through, and that the most deadly weapon in modern warfare are the media. There's no point dwelling on the past, forget I mentioned it. Sorry.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

Indeed, the analogy makes no sense if you're referencing Kosovo, which at the time I wrote it, I didn't think you were. It's a fair comparison to our operations in the Middle East but makes 0 sense in relation to the former Yugoslavia.

No that's not I meant. I meant that picking former Yugoslavia for that analogy makes no sense. Russia is in great relations with most former YU countries and is irrationally loved here for some reason. There's just no motive.

While middle eastern countries have near a century of hard motives against the US.

 

[MrFalconfly]

You do know why NATO went into Yugoslavia right?

Dude called Milo?ević had begun an ethnic cleansing in the area.

I started typing a post but I just don't have the strength for it anymore. I'm the least patriotic person I know and the topic makes me physically ill.

Let me just say that whatever you think you saw in the news I lived through, and that the most deadly weapon in modern warfare are the media. There's no point dwelling on the past, forget I mentioned it. Sorry.

Well I'm not from the US.

I just call bollocks when NATO gets synonymized with the US.

Danish forces also participate as peace-keeping forces in the KFOR mission (well now there's 35 of them left and they are only doing administrative functions).

I'm just seing it from the eyes of the soldiers and I can only say that KFOR (NATO) was a lot better executed than UNPROFOR (UN) (ground troops were basically relegated to being blue-hatted target practice for Serbian soldiers in UNPROFOR. Well at least until the Danes got tired of it and fired back in Operation Bøllebank)

 

[Gorrath]

Indeed, the analogy makes no sense if you're referencing Kosovo, which at the time I wrote it, I didn't think you were. It's a fair comparison to our operations in the Middle East but makes 0 sense in relation to the former Yugoslavia.

No that's not I meant. I meant that picking former Yugoslavia for that analogy makes no sense. Russia is in great relations with most former YU countries and is irrationally loved here for some reason. There's just no motive.

While middle eastern countries have near a century of hard motives against the US.

While I was in Kosovo, there were no lack of people who wanted to take a swing at Russia for backing Yugoslavia and the Serbs. I cannot comment on relations today as I don't know what popular sentiment is like. In any case, I would actually back Russia if Ukraine collapsed into a civil war and ethnic Russian people were being cleansed by the Ukrainian army, but this isn't something that is or was happening and so your comparison seems really far fetched.

 

[Gorrath]

You do know why NATO went into Yugoslavia right?

Dude called Milo?ević had begun an ethnic cleansing in the area.

I started typing a post but I just don't have the strength for it anymore. I'm the least patriotic person I know and the topic makes me physically ill.

Let me just say that whatever you think you saw in the news I lived through, and that the most deadly weapon in modern warfare are the media. There's no point dwelling on the past, forget I mentioned it. Sorry.

Well I'm not from the US.

I just call bollocks when NATO gets synonymized with the US.

Danish forces also participate as peace-keeping forces in the KFOR mission (well now there's 35 of them left and they are only doing administrative functions).

I'm just seing it from the eyes of the soldiers and I can only say that KFOR (NATO) was a lot better executed than UNPROFOR (UN) (ground troops were basically relegated to being blue-hatted target practice for Serbian soldiers in UNPROFOR. Well at least until the Danes got tired of it and fired back in Operation Bøllebank)

And good on them too. I had a ton of sympathy for what the UN peacekeepers had to go through being as hampered as they were because no one wanted an "incident". The KFOR operations were really successful and things changed dramatically between the time I arrived in Macedonia and left Kosovo. The international help and support of operations there was one of my fondest memories of serving in the military, even if it had to come in the midst of terrible atrocities.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

While I was in Kosovo, there were no lack of people who wanted to take a swing at Russia for backing Yugoslavia and the Serbs. I cannot comment on relations today as I don't know what popular sentiment is like. In any case, I would actually back Russia if Ukraine collapsed into a civil war and ethnic Russian people were being cleansed by the Ukrainian army, but this isn't something that is or was happening and so your comparison seems really far fetched.

Well yeah, but those people were Albanian and Albania was not a part of former YU. Of course it's not as simple as that, but like you said, Russia backed Serbia in the conflict and it was very loved even before that, and its relations with other Ex YU countris are neutral at worst.

My comparison was in the aftermath of the conflict, Ukraine at least had a bogus (probably*) referendum, Kosovo didn't even get as much. It just got handed over to Albania.

 

[Gorrath]

While I was in Kosovo, there were no lack of people who wanted to take a swing at Russia for backing Yugoslavia and the Serbs. I cannot comment on relations today as I don't know what popular sentiment is like. In any case, I would actually back Russia if Ukraine collapsed into a civil war and ethnic Russian people were being cleansed by the Ukrainian army, but this isn't something that is or was happening and so your comparison seems really far fetched.

Well yeah, but those people were Albanian and Albania was not a part of former YU. Of course it's not as simple as that, but like you said, Russia backed Serbia in the conflict and it was very loved even before that, and its relations with other Ex YU countris are neutral at worst. I'm not sure what you mean by my comparison though?

Your comparison between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and what the U.S. did in 1999 in Kosovo. Russia's essentially unilateral invasion of Crimea for the purpose of annexation bears practically no resemblance to the NATO and UN peacekeeping missions in Kosovo. You originally stated that the U.S. basically did the same thing as Russia is doing now, and I find that comparison really far fetched for the reasons I mentioned. The operations by NATO and the UN were not some unilateral invasion by the U.S. and Russia isn't in Crimea to stop the Ukranian army from wiping out ethnic Russians. I'm trying to figure out how you're linking these two things as being synonymous.

 

[Zac Jovanovic]

Your comparison between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and what the U.S. did in 1999 in Kosovo. Russia's essentially unilateral invasion of Crimea for the purpose of annexation bears practically no resemblance to the NATO and UN peacekeeping missions in Kosovo. You originally stated that the U.S. basically did the same thing as Russia is doing now, and I find that comparison really far fetched for the reasons I mentioned. The operations by NATO and the UN were not some unilateral invasion by the U.S. and Russia isn't in Crimea to stop the Ukranian army from wiping out ethnic Russians. I'm trying to figure out how you're linking these two things as being synonymous.

No no, you missed my point completely and caught my post in a quote before I had time to edit it after I got what you were refering to. See above. Sorry I'm a bit distracted atm -.- Pretending to work.

 

[Gorrath]

Your comparison between what Russia is doing in Ukraine and what the U.S. did in 1999 in Kosovo. Russia's essentially unilateral invasion of Crimea for the purpose of annexation bears practically no resemblance to the NATO and UN peacekeeping missions in Kosovo. You originally stated that the U.S. basically did the same thing as Russia is doing now, and I find that comparison really far fetched for the reasons I mentioned. The operations by NATO and the UN were not some unilateral invasion by the U.S. and Russia isn't in Crimea to stop the Ukranian army from wiping out ethnic Russians. I'm trying to figure out how you're linking these two things as being synonymous.

No no, you missed my point completely and caught my post in a quote before I had time to edit it after I got what you were refering to. See above. Sorry I'm a bit distracted atm -.- Pretending to work.

Yep, I see your edit now and I think we're on the same page. I won't pretend like recognizing Kosovo as an independent state wasn't a defacto way of making it close but not quite a part of Albania, so on that point I think we more or less agree. But even that wasn't just something the U.S. cooked up as a way to grab territory for itself, which is what this invasion of Crimea is for the Russians. The U.S. actually did do exactly that in our history though, the boldest case being our annexation of Texas from Mexico.

And no worries about the confusion, I'm posting from work too. ^ ^

 

[rutger5000]

Russia... there's a phrase we have.. cutting your nose to spite your face.

The spanish have a phrase that roughly translates to ' To shit in the milk'

You kinda did both of these at once since you've just given the US and/or china a perfect reason to develop their own shuttle tech.

And they'd only have to charge 59 mill per person to be an easy win.

Yeah like the Americans could actually develop such technology without Russian help or if they would ever trust the Chinese to do it for them. Face it if the USA want to put people at the ISS their best bet will always be the Russians. Simple truth is that Russians are much better at putting stuff in space and getting it back. The idea that the Americans won the space race is a myth. They landed a man on the moon before the Russians did because of two important reasons.
1. They had help from German (Nazi) scientist (No joke)
2. The Russians never really bothered with going to the moon. Unlike mastering the art of getting satellites in geostationary orbit, putting a man on the moon really doesn't serve any purpose safe for learning how to put a man on the moon. ( Which the nasa forgot lol, again no joke).
Americans built better computers than Russians do, and yes that gives them an advantage in many fields, aero-engineering included. But that advantage is not always decisive.

 

[rutger5000]

If you check a map than you can see why Russia needs close ties with Crimea. Ukraine made that difficult, and Russia took it for itself, with semi-concept of the local population. It's not nice, but countries don't always play nice. Taking more of Ukraine really can't be excused though, and the world needs to stop it. If not for Ukraine sake, than merely because there's no way of telling when Putin would stop.

 

[Staskala]

2. The Russians never really bothered with going to the moon. Unlike mastering the art of getting satellites in geostationary orbit, putting a man on the moon really doesn't serve any purpose safe for learning how to put a man on the moon.

Russia never put things into GEO. It's almost entirely worthless to them since these orbits can't cover much of Russian soil. They use Molniya orbits instead, a very eccentric orbit with high inclination that enables satellites to be over Russia 8 hours per day.