Ryan Lambourn's Slaying Of Sandy Hook Draws Condemnation

[CM156_v1legacy]

That's the fucking problem, American gun nuts are far too paranoid and close minded to be rational and objective. They would rather say "but the stats say ..." and "I need them for ..." instead of "hey, Australia used to be like us and have school shootings and massacres but now there hasn't been one for years. Why not try it out?".

Protip: Accusing people of being paranoid and close minded is not the best way to bring them to the table.

American's value things and money over human life, I've read people on this site say things like "if an intruder is in my house I will kill them". That strikes me as odd, your TV and jewelry are worth more than a life ... that person isn't a great person 'cos they are robbing you but you have insurance, it can all be replaced.

Intruders don't wear a big blinking sign on their chests proclaiming their intention. If someone is still in my home after my alarm is blaring (and it's really loud), then I cannot assume they are only there for my stuff.

And you know what cannot be replaced? My life. And I'm not taking chances on that to spare the wellbeing of someone who is currently in the commission of several felonies, and has shown no regard whatsoever for my rights or safety.

I very much don't want to kill someone, but if someone broke into my house at 3 AM and haven't left when the alarm is blasting or my dog is nipping at their legs, I'm not taking any chances. It's a horrible situation, but it's not one I chose to create by deciding that it was permissible to break into someone's dwelling and threaten their safety.

 

[Simple logic]

snip

I'm not closed minded enough to say it will never happen from hence forth but come on, an army that huge and powerful with how many nukes and the entire country being able to own fire arms isn't the place an invader goes "we can take 'em!" ... in my opinion the next invasion will be a political one of open borders (in the very very very far future).

I figured it was a joke but wanted to guillotine it.

I know shotguns are good for opening stuff, special forces use it to blow hinges off and I know they are used for bird hunting but if I am being honest, if I wanted to do a Columbine, Sandy hook etc style shooting, I am choosing a shotgun ... wide spread, good range and aiming isn't wholly necessary.

You know why in war of the worlds, Cloverfield and Pacific rim style movies the aliens kick ass and all our weapons don't effect them? They have the ability to get here, so they are obviously far more advanced than us. If the army spending millions in munitions doesn't tickle it, your relative pea shooter isn't going to phase it ... unless you're Will Smith but then you can just punch it into submission.

snip

That's the fucking problem, American gun nuts are far too paranoid and close minded to be rational and objective. They would rather say "but the stats say ..." and "I need them for ..." instead of "hey, Australia used to be like us and have school shootings and massacres but now there hasn't been one for years. Why not try it out?".

Statistics are great but only show what has happened (note, past tense) and not what is happening in Aus. Instead of theoretical arguments there is a living example of how it could be better. However, knowing what Americans are like, I think they need a compromise between what Aus has and the current tragedies happening in America.

American's value things and money over human life, I've read people on this site say things like "if an intruder is in my house I will kill them". That strikes me as odd, your TV and jewelry are worth more than a life ... that person isn't a great person 'cos they are robbing you but you have insurance, it can all be replaced.

To be honest, I feel a little sorry for American's ... they are so caught up in "they're gunna get me!" and clinging to guns like a security blanket that they are paralyzed into paranoia.

I think you are misunderstanding how Americans view guns. I do not see them as loving money over life nor having any less respect for life then any other civilized place in the world. One could compare them to a knightly coulture. Putting aside the mythos of honor that goes with it of course as I can not comment on that. As a knightly colture seeks to have a sword and shield to protect those around them so does the man who owns a gun for protection. He or she sees that owning a gun is the best defense to protect their families and friends. As a knight will put his life on the line to protect his brother or sister by fighting and maybe killing an assailant so to does the gun owner to protect what they see as important.
Is this a right view or wrong? Well it is neither. It is merely a prospective and culture that values something different then another culture. As I have seen it guns are not the end all and be all for the average American. It is merely a tool to protect what they value most highly.

 

[Simple logic]

Meanwhile over in IGN there's uproar because the website only gave it an 8.5 out of 10.

I'm in two minds about this, at first I thought it would just be a pure exploitation game, but the defence the developer gave actually has me swayed a bit, especially the gun safe bit. It's a bit like satire; creating a piece of imaginary media to deliberately get criticism of for being sick, then point out that the exact same thing is happening in real life, yet we don't do anything to stop it.

Makes you think.

That isn't the only thing. There are actually 3 modes: Historical, Gun Control, and Eagletears. Historical is what you would expect. In Gun control, however, the gun is locked in the safe and the game tells you to assume that the killer ordered a katana online. You play the game like normal and it tallies up the kills at the end, which are much less than in historical because the katana requires you to be right next to people and is also much slower than the rifle. Eagletears, on the other hand, arms all the teachers with pistols. This doesn't really effect much, as you can kill them before they can fire. So... Yeah. Interesting game that actually gets across its message across surprisingly well.

I found that Eagletears was the mode that got me the most kills, actually - in Historical, the teachers were really effective at getting the kids out and behind locked doors, but in Eagletears they all tried to shoot first, leaving me to clear rooms easily.

Yeah, me too, but I wasn't certain if it was just because I knew the layout and how things worked more, or if it was because the teachers were actually ineffectual. I actually managed to get 56 kills (96% holy shit) in eagletears mode. :\

What is wrong with you people? Why? I ask. Why are you playing a game in which you kill kids and teachers? Why not play a game in which you kill just Jews, or Black people, or Native Americans? What is the appeal of this game that compels you kill do horrific acts in a game? Don't get me wrong as I love a good shooter as the next. Heck I play sniper elite quite often. Why, though, do you have the desire to kill children and the defenseless?

I don't really have any strong desire to kill children. I do have a strong desire to fully explore the message and themes of a work, which in this case requires the player to play all 3 game modes.

So would you play through a game that makes you play a Nazi in camp where you need to get a body count as high as possible? Do you play a game where you need to rape as many women as possible to get a good score? Do you play these games just to understand it message? I hope not. There are some subjects, those that evil by their nature, that should never be explored in this manner.

 

[BreakfastMan]

Meanwhile over in IGN there's uproar because the website only gave it an 8.5 out of 10.

I'm in two minds about this, at first I thought it would just be a pure exploitation game, but the defence the developer gave actually has me swayed a bit, especially the gun safe bit. It's a bit like satire; creating a piece of imaginary media to deliberately get criticism of for being sick, then point out that the exact same thing is happening in real life, yet we don't do anything to stop it.

Makes you think.

That isn't the only thing. There are actually 3 modes: Historical, Gun Control, and Eagletears. Historical is what you would expect. In Gun control, however, the gun is locked in the safe and the game tells you to assume that the killer ordered a katana online. You play the game like normal and it tallies up the kills at the end, which are much less than in historical because the katana requires you to be right next to people and is also much slower than the rifle. Eagletears, on the other hand, arms all the teachers with pistols. This doesn't really effect much, as you can kill them before they can fire. So... Yeah. Interesting game that actually gets across its message across surprisingly well.

I found that Eagletears was the mode that got me the most kills, actually - in Historical, the teachers were really effective at getting the kids out and behind locked doors, but in Eagletears they all tried to shoot first, leaving me to clear rooms easily.

Yeah, me too, but I wasn't certain if it was just because I knew the layout and how things worked more, or if it was because the teachers were actually ineffectual. I actually managed to get 56 kills (96% holy shit) in eagletears mode. :\

What is wrong with you people? Why? I ask. Why are you playing a game in which you kill kids and teachers? Why not play a game in which you kill just Jews, or Black people, or Native Americans? What is the appeal of this game that compels you kill do horrific acts in a game? Don't get me wrong as I love a good shooter as the next. Heck I play sniper elite quite often. Why, though, do you have the desire to kill children and the defenseless?

I don't really have any strong desire to kill children. I do have a strong desire to fully explore the message and themes of a work, which in this case requires the player to play all 3 game modes.

So would you play through a game that makes you play a Nazi in camp where you need to get a body count as high as possible? Do you play a game where you need to rape as many women as possible to get a good score? Do you play these games just to understand it message? I hope not. There are some subjects, those that evil by their nature, that should never be explored in this manner.

I don't see how. What makes a game different from a film exploring these ideas and themes? Is The Basketball Diaries acceptable, but this somehow isn't? How about Richard Bachmann's Rage? If you think the point of the game is to be a fun shmup, you are sorely mistaken, as the game is clunky and slow, lacking in detail, and completely absent of any "positive feedback" noises. It uses the interactivity of games and the language of games to convey it's message.

 

[omega 616]

snip

What else do you want me to call them? level headed and rational, as proven by your next paragraph, they are not.

What if I told you that even with our guns laws (UK) people don't get there home invaded, then slaughtered nearly at all? What if I told you that a lot of people aren't even home when they are robbed?

See what I mean about being paranoid? "What if somebody breaks in and wants to kill me?", I've been alive 24 years and I don't even know anyone who has had there home broken into or mugged on the street ... it's not fallout or mad max, we live in a "civilized" first world (by which I mean we aren't killing daily but we aren't exactly making sure everybody is ok).

What if you're driving a car and it crashes? Better not drive! Could be knocked over, better not go outside! A part of living is "well I could be mugged/beaten up etc" you can't walk around scared of them scenarios. I don't carry a knife, knuckle dusters, a bat or a Kubotan 'cos I refuse to be intimidated or scared of them possibilities. Don't get me wrong, I keep my head down, avoid groups and walking around alone at night but I'm not going to invest in body armor or equipment to defend myself.

 

[Darthbawls77]

Again this guy makes an offensive video game and uses the made up excuse of, "its for gun awareness." This game will do exactly what his last game did and that's draw negative attention away from the actual event it was based on and make it another damn video game issue. Thanks buddy, your stupid method of getting a convoluted message across is again missed due to your need for attention by insulting people using a medium that is already under false fire for spreading violence, great job you prick!

 

[SomeGuyOnHisComputer]

... I don't know what to think of this.

After playing the game just long enough to see what gun control mode was like, I was done with it. Not touching it again. It's incredibly disturbing, and was clearly meant to be. The thing felt almost intentionally (literally) painful to play with the way the controls were set up and stuff.

Honestly, what pissed me off wasn't that the creator had the gull to use a tragedy to make a point, but the humour involved in doing so. Like, what the fuck? The fuck is wrong with that guy? what an asshole. I guess it was supposed to juxtapose the horrific feel of the whole thing, to further the disturbing factor. But it just feels like a bad, overly offensive political cartoon.

I see a lot of potential in games as satire, but this game is just disrespectful bullshit. Once it gets to it's point, it becomes a game equivalent of some teenager's self-masturbatory message board post.

Deriving humour from the real life deaths of innocents, especially children, is abhorrent. No matter the point. Maybe there was more to it that I missed, but pretty much all value went out the door as soon as the snarky text boxes came up as far as I care.

 

[Bug MuIdoon]

I just finished playing through all 3 modes and I'm still stuck for an opinion on it. I tried to go in and play it without any previous thoughts or opinions and to simply play it as a game. Here's a small review.

Firstly, It looks great despite how simple it is. The minimal yet vibrant backgrounds juxtaposed against the black silhouettes of desks, toilets, chalkboards and running children look aesthetically surreal and really hone in the air of innocence that surrounds a school.
Even the player looks great. A silhouetted, slightly humanoid figure that seems to warp and evaporate in monstrous ways as it moves, with legs turning liquid-esque dripping on the ground. This shooter is far from normal, far from human.
Even the "tutorial" messages telling, almost forcing you, to pick up a gun and kill your mother seem schizophrenically apt. Whether the specific mental illness reflects well to the Sandy Hook incident is another thing, but it does drill a certain tone in to the game.

The music, or lack of, in the first part of the game works well too. Making you truly feel like it's you, and you alone who's doing what your doing and invading this colourfull innocence. The latter half of the game chooses to go with a hip hop-screamo-electro song as its soundtrack which, personally, I felt detracted from the game. With lyrics about gun control being screamed it suddenly lost all subtlety. The game itself is hardly subtle, but when the soundtrack starts dropping the "N" word and using phrases like "NRA Swag" it just feels much more teen-angst and silly, rather than thought provoking.

Controls and movements are bare minimum. A little clunky and slow, which actually make it slightly tricky to hit targets when they're moving around. There's a few nice touches to the gameplay, like having to repeatably kick a door if it gets blocked or locked, which I thought looked visually, quite well made despite the simple nature of the graphics. Do the controls need to be great though for something like this? I'm not sure.

The first of three gameplay modes is 'Historic', in which you have access to an AR-15 that you easily access at home. After killing your sleeping mother you basically set about the school hunting in toilets, classrooms and a gym for pupils and teachers. It think the important thing to stress is that it's not enjoyable. Actively searching under dark desks, looking for hidden survivors to kill, felt quite wrong and genuinely shocking leaving a rather uneasy feeling in my gut.

Before starting the second mode "Gun Control" I was expecting the obvious message to kick in here. I'd read a few articles on the game, and even the one here on The Escapist mentioned the 2nd game mode as "must remove the AR-15 from a locked gun safe - and cannot." I was expecting that to be it. Being able to progress no further and for the games message to end there. However it isn't necessary as message inducing as you think, or at least not the one you thought. Yes you can't pick up the AR-15 at the start, but instead you pick up a katana and continue to kill everyone in the school anyway. I thought it worth mentioning that I got my highest score, for killing the most people, in this mode out of the three.

The 3rd mode, Eagletears, is also worth a mention as it's choosing to cater to an often talked about debate. In this mode the teachers are armed with pistols. I realised though, that they unable to hurt you with them, even after standing still and letting them fire at me. They can, however, accidentally kill a child.

In general I do feel like the game is trying to do something positive but it just isn't sure what. It feels a little immature at moments and drifts off in to "being a game" rather than "being a statement" It is a game after all is said and done, but it's not a very good one - whereas it has some potential of being a good statement.
The messages it tries to convey are not as black and white as it would at first seem either. The fact that you still manage to go on a huge killing spree despite having access to the AR-15 seems to poke a little fun at the notion of tighter gun controls preventing these situations, and the mode where teachers are armed has no different outcome either.

I'm glad I played it instead of judging it without, like the masses reportedly are doing. Whatever the message the creator wants to convey through this game, I don't think he deserves any of the hate he's getting. There's definitely something positive trying to be said with it amongst the ambiguity, rather than just being 'shocking to gain attention' but I do feel it could be done with a little more maturity.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

snip

What else do you want me to call them? level headed and rational, as proven by your next paragraph, they are not.

What if I told you that even with our guns laws (UK) people don't get there home invaded, then slaughtered nearly at all? What if I told you that a lot of people aren't even home when they are robbed?

See what I mean about being paranoid? "What if somebody breaks in and wants to kill me?", I've been alive 24 years and I don't even know anyone who has had there home broken into or mugged on the street ... it's not fallout or mad max, we live in a "civilized" first world (by which I mean we aren't killing daily but we aren't exactly making sure everybody is ok).

What if you're driving a car and it crashes? Better not drive! Could be knocked over, better not go outside! A part of living is "well I could be mugged/beaten up etc" you can't walk around scared of them scenarios. I don't carry a knife, knuckle dusters, a bat or a Kubotan 'cos I refuse to be intimidated or scared of them possibilities. Don't get me wrong, I keep my head down, avoid groups and walking around alone at night but I'm not going to invest in body armor or equipment to defend myself.

The accusation that gun owners are paranoid, or by extension, scared, is ridiculous. We have guns. What do we need to be scared of? Willingness and preparedness to use lethal force to protect oneself is not paranoia.

And yes, life has risks. Every risk I take is calculated. Assuming the best about someone who has broken into my home is not a risk I'm willing to take. If getting shot by a homeowner isn't a risk they're willing to take, they shouldn't have broken into a home. It's really that simple.

I've never had my home broken into while I was there. I live in a middle class suburban area, so crime really isn't that bad. But not all people live in areas where the police can be there in minutes. Add that to the fact that police are only accountable for general order in society and not individual safety, no law can ensure my safety as much as turning off the safety can.

Finally, it's well established in US case law that people have the right to own guns for self defense within their home. It's not likely to change anytime soon, so making an argument to the tune of "What about the poor burglar?" is likely to get you laughed out of the discussion in America.

 

[K12]

News casters response: "How dare they make a real-world tragedy into mass-market entertainment that's OUR JOB"




... Satire!

 

[omega 616]

snip

Yeah, you're not scared and paranoid 'cos you have a gun. You ARE scared and paranoid 'cos you got a gun ... get it? If you weren't scared and paranoid you wouldn't have a gun 'cos you would think "why do I need a gun?".

It is why school shootings will always happen in America, you're attached to your blankey too much to even consider not having them, which means guns will always be available to the people who will shoot up schools. As Tyler Durden said "JUST. LET. GO!".

You know, I don't like star treck Enterprise but I was forced to endure an Episode but it was about a race of aliens kidnapped and enslaved humans, the humans rose up and over threw the aliens, it was then made law that the aliens couldn't be taught (and basically treated with respect) in case they enslaved humans again. So the conflict was the enlightened Enterprise crew trying to liberate the aliens and get the law changed ... this is the problem with the US and gun laws. The laws are from when you thought the English were going to try and re-take America, now you are using them to justify having guns in any civilian hands.

You say "I need a gun to defend myself with" so, when are you buying the body armor? What about some self defense classes? Oh, you know they say the best defense is to just run away, you doing some cardio work outs? You got a great home security? Bullet proof windows? Got a little camera to see who is at the door? Panic room? What is the safety rating on your car? Even better what about armor plating your car? You know, gotta be safe! You probably have a zombie plan (come on who doesn't?) but do you have a "America has been invaded" plan? Got your sandbags and barbwire ready? Basement full of tinned food and bottled water?

Sad thing is, some people would answer yes to a lot of that ...

 

[Someone Depressing]

It's funny, how people with outrage over stuff like this, while some Chinese boy is suffocating under some rocks in an insanely deep mine somewhere, as his last heartbeats are spent contemplating over why his mother sold him to the mine owner. Or how people are making WWII games, or Cold War movies, and that just goes over peoples' heads.

Yes, it's a tradegy, and it's sick that someone made something like this. Just as long as Blockbuster keeps selling Saving Private Ryan for 25% off.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Yeah, you're not scared and paranoid 'cos you have a gun. You ARE scared and paranoid 'cos you got a gun ... get it? If you weren't scared and paranoid you wouldn't have a gun 'cos you would think "why do I need a gun?".

So people with guns are paranoid

Spoiler: Got it

More than 80 million people in the US legally own guns, for a variety of purposes. I own more than one gun, each with a different purpose. My little .22 AR is not something I'd use to defend my home, save for it being invaded by paper targets

It is why school shootings will always happen in America, you're attached to your blankey too much to even consider not having them, which means guns will always be available to the people who will shoot up schools. As Tyler Durden said "JUST. LET. GO!".

Let me make my position clear. I am never going to give up my second amendment rights any more than I am going to give up my first amendment rights or my fourth amendment rights. Never. And I am not articulate enough to make it clear how strongly I, and my peers, feel regarding gun rights. Election after election shows the will of the people regarding gun rights

The laws are from when you thought the English were going to try and re-take America, now you are using them to justify having guns in any civilian hands.

Really, the third was also written with the Brits in mind, and yet I would call that no less valid. The supreme court considered this opinion, and ruled against it.

I have the right to own firearms as per both my state and the federal constitution. Any debate about ?gun control? that does not start with an acknowledgement of this reality is a non-starter.

You say "I need a gun to defend myself with" so, when are you buying the body armor? What about some self defense classes? Oh, you know they say the best defense is to just run away, you doing some cardio work outs? You got a great home security? Bullet proof windows? Got a little camera to see who is at the door? Panic room? What is the safety rating on your car? Even better what about armor plating your car? You know, gotta be safe! You probably have a zombie plan (come on who doesn't?) but do you have a "America has been invaded" plan? Got your sandbags and barbwire ready? Basement full of tinned food and bottled water?

Yes, I have taken several self defense classes. And I fail to see anything wrong with that.

 

[Simple logic]

Meanwhile over in IGN there's uproar because the website only gave it an 8.5 out of 10.

I'm in two minds about this, at first I thought it would just be a pure exploitation game, but the defence the developer gave actually has me swayed a bit, especially the gun safe bit. It's a bit like satire; creating a piece of imaginary media to deliberately get criticism of for being sick, then point out that the exact same thing is happening in real life, yet we don't do anything to stop it.

Makes you think.

That isn't the only thing. There are actually 3 modes: Historical, Gun Control, and Eagletears. Historical is what you would expect. In Gun control, however, the gun is locked in the safe and the game tells you to assume that the killer ordered a katana online. You play the game like normal and it tallies up the kills at the end, which are much less than in historical because the katana requires you to be right next to people and is also much slower than the rifle. Eagletears, on the other hand, arms all the teachers with pistols. This doesn't really effect much, as you can kill them before they can fire. So... Yeah. Interesting game that actually gets across its message across surprisingly well.

I found that Eagletears was the mode that got me the most kills, actually - in Historical, the teachers were really effective at getting the kids out and behind locked doors, but in Eagletears they all tried to shoot first, leaving me to clear rooms easily.

Yeah, me too, but I wasn't certain if it was just because I knew the layout and how things worked more, or if it was because the teachers were actually ineffectual. I actually managed to get 56 kills (96% holy shit) in eagletears mode. :\

What is wrong with you people? Why? I ask. Why are you playing a game in which you kill kids and teachers? Why not play a game in which you kill just Jews, or Black people, or Native Americans? What is the appeal of this game that compels you kill do horrific acts in a game? Don't get me wrong as I love a good shooter as the next. Heck I play sniper elite quite often. Why, though, do you have the desire to kill children and the defenseless?

I don't really have any strong desire to kill children. I do have a strong desire to fully explore the message and themes of a work, which in this case requires the player to play all 3 game modes.

So would you play through a game that makes you play a Nazi in camp where you need to get a body count as high as possible? Do you play a game where you need to rape as many women as possible to get a good score? Do you play these games just to understand it message? I hope not. There are some subjects, those that evil by their nature, that should never be explored in this manner.

I don't see how. What makes a game different from a film exploring these ideas and themes? Is The Basketball Diaries acceptable, but this somehow isn't? How about Richard Bachmann's Rage? If you think the point of the game is to be a fun shmup, you are sorely mistaken, as the game is clunky and slow, lacking in detail, and completely absent of any "positive feedback" noises. It uses the interactivity of games and the language of games to convey it's message.

Ok I will admit that I had to google The Basketball Diaries, because I have never heard of the thing and I can not make any comments on it till I watch it, BUT as for Rage by Richard Bachmann by steven king I can comment on that. There is book that deals with a kid who sees stuff he does not like in his teacher, parents, classmates.. bla bla bla.... and desides to shoot them all with a gun. Yes it was in print and yes it was accepted, but after the school shootings Mr. King stopped its print. Yes, several of the kids who did school shootings had it in their library and had read it often.

What does this have to with my argument earilier? Glad you asked. For some time people have yelled and screamed that violence in video games causes violence. It is true? Who knows, but even a book, a simple book, had a seemingly important impact of those people who did school shootings. It like the game had some broader message that it was trying to get across yet maybe inspired some one to evil by dehumanizing the very evil that it preached against.

This was my message. There are some realms that should not be used for entertainment. If it should be explored it needs t done with grace and an academic way. If one needs to make a game out of it one should have hero to stop it or a story to explain why this is happening. Never, I repeat NEVER, should we expose people to the idea that shooting children and any innocent as a fun thing to do. To do so invites a disaster that we will never see coming.

 

[Simple logic]

Yeah, you're not scared and paranoid 'cos you have a gun. You ARE scared and paranoid 'cos you got a gun ... get it? If you weren't scared and paranoid you wouldn't have a gun 'cos you would think "why do I need a gun?".

So people with guns are paranoid

Spoiler: Got it

More than 80 million people in the US legally own guns, for a variety of purposes. I own more than one gun, each with a different purpose. My little .22 AR is not something I'd use to defend my home, save for it being invaded by paper targets

It is why school shootings will always happen in America, you're attached to your blankey too much to even consider not having them, which means guns will always be available to the people who will shoot up schools. As Tyler Durden said "JUST. LET. GO!".

Let me make my position clear. I am never going to give up my second amendment rights any more than I am going to give up my first amendment rights or my fourth amendment rights. Never. And I am not articulate enough to make it clear how strongly I, and my peers, feel regarding gun rights. Election after election shows the will of the people regarding gun rights

The laws are from when you thought the English were going to try and re-take America, now you are using them to justify having guns in any civilian hands.

Really, the third was also written with the Brits in mind, and yet I would call that no less valid. The supreme court considered this opinion, and ruled against it.

I have the right to own firearms as per both my state and the federal constitution. Any debate about ?gun control? that does not start with an acknowledgement of this reality is a non-starter.

You say "I need a gun to defend myself with" so, when are you buying the body armor? What about some self defense classes? Oh, you know they say the best defense is to just run away, you doing some cardio work outs? You got a great home security? Bullet proof windows? Got a little camera to see who is at the door? Panic room? What is the safety rating on your car? Even better what about armor plating your car? You know, gotta be safe! You probably have a zombie plan (come on who doesn't?) but do you have a "America has been invaded" plan? Got your sandbags and barbwire ready? Basement full of tinned food and bottled water?

Yes, I have taken several self defense classes. And I fail to see anything wrong with that.

Keep preaching the truth brother!

 

[omega 616]

snip

You can throw a cop picture up as a "including this guy?" but to be honest, yeah, he doesn't need a gun either ... our cops don't and they don't get killed all that often either. There is even a video on youtube of about 20 English police arresting a guy with a machete, in America a guy got killed by a cop 'cos he acted aggressively with a rebar.

Why can't you get this? Instead of clinging to them amendments like they are still relevant, look at what America could be like without guns and without thinking "criminals will run riot and rob everyone!" 'cos they wont. It is the root problem with the gun control debate, too many scared and paranoid people.

The reason the laws and attempts to control guns are always shot down and 'cos people can be bought, "hey, vote against this control and I'll cross your palm with silver".

There is nothing wrong with self defense class 'cos it is rational thing to do. "he could kill me 'cos he is robbing me" isn't rational, it's the slippery slope argument. Anybody can kill you but this guy is more likely to 'cos he wants money? ... you better shoot me then!

No law will ever be passed against guns till either people stop being scared or are morally strong enough to not be bought.

 

[BreakfastMan]

This was my message. There are some realms that should not be used for entertainment. If it should be explored it needs t done with grace and an academic way. If one needs to make a game out of it one should have hero to stop it or a story to explain why this is happening. Never, I repeat NEVER, should we expose people to the idea that shooting children and any innocent as a fun thing to do. To do so invites a disaster that we will never see coming.

Good thing this game doesn't do that, then? It doesn't portray it as "fun". There is nothing "fun" about the game.

Also, if we don't want to expose people to the idea that killing innocents is a fun thing to do, at all... It is over 15 years too late for that.

And honestly? I don't care if some psycho fixates on a piece of art so much they start to want to do horrible stuff. That stuff can't be predicted. It is like worrying about being hit by lightning on an overcast day. I mean, do I really have to bring up Helter Skelter?

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Why can't you get this? Instead of clinging to them amendments like they are still relevant, look at what America could be like without guns and without thinking "criminals will run riot and rob everyone!" 'cos they wont. It is the root problem with the gun control debate, too many scared and paranoid people.

Why do we need any of those silly amendments, anyways? Free speech? Right to a lawyer? Against unreasonable search and seizure? Bah

That was sarcasm, by the way.

Why can't you get this? Instead of clinging to them amendments like they are still relevant, look at what America could be like without guns and without thinking "criminals will run riot and rob everyone!" 'cos they wont. It is the root problem with the gun control debate, too many scared and paranoid people.

An America without guns simply isn't happening. There are far to many to have any thing remotely resembling a gun free america

The reason the laws and attempts to control guns are always shot down and 'cos people can be bought, "hey, vote against this control and I'll cross your palm with silver".

Or because voters in many states really don't agree with gun control.

There is nothing wrong with self defense class 'cos it is rational thing to do. "he could kill me 'cos he is robbing me" isn't rational, it's the slippery slope argument. Anybody can kill you but this guy is more likely to 'cos he wants money? ... you better shoot me then!

When you engage in armed robbery, it is "your money, or your life." You are implying or directly communicating the concept that if the victim does not comply, you will kill them. You will wipe out an entire life of memories, devastate families, and so on.
The act of armed robbery makes you a bad person. It does not make you an otherwise alright person who did a bad thing: it indicates that you are willing to threaten to kill another person over money: that you have degenerated far past simply being an "imperfect human being."
Perhaps at some point an intruder will threaten to put itching powder down someone?s pants if he doesn't comply, and then we can have a discussion about what constitutes legitimate retaliatory or defensive force.
But if you threaten someone with a gun or any other potentially deadly object, you've basically said, "To hell with civilization and everything which makes us something other than animals."

No law will ever be passed against guns till either people stop being scared or are morally strong enough to not be bought.

Not nearly enough people remotely agree with any real strong anti-gun measures like bans on entire classes of firearms. It's not happening. Strict European style gun control, as an issue in America, is dead. Over. Done. Kaput.