Salt: The Blue Ink Alchemy Review

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
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Thanks to my friends at Geekadelphia [http://geekadelphia.com/], my wife and I were able to enjoy an advance screening of Salt. We walked out of it wondering the same thing: why is a movie dealing with a villain put to bed twenty years ago coming out now?

Remember how Battlefield Bad Company 2 [http://www.fullyramblomatic.com/], but it seems this unfortunate backwards-looking form of inspiration has reached Hollywood as well. Despite the fact that there are all sorts of punching bags for an espionage thriller that's also a vehicle for Angelina Jolie, Kurt Wimmer's Salt manages the feat of bringing the Soviet Union's labyrinthine intelligence plotting back from the dead as an engine to drive the film's plot.



The plot introduces us to Evelyn Salt, a CIA operative married to an arachnid expert. She's getting ready to enjoy her anniversary when a Russian defector walks into her office claiming to have vital information. Placed in an interrogation room with Salt, the defector reveals that he has knowledge of a presidential assassination plot going down in New York City in 24 hours. He even knows the name of the assassin: Evelyn Salt. Pointed out as a possible mole, unable to reach her husband and trapped in her own office building, Salt needs to facilitate an escape and find a way to prove her innocence. Or carry out her role in the assassination plot. Or go on vacation. Or get her nails done. The question I asked myself while actually watching Salt was, "What the hell is she up to?" The desire to see what exactly her plan was kept me going all the way to the end credits.

A lot is made of the identity of Evelyn Salt, and to the credit of Wimmer's script, Philip Noyce's direction and Angelina Jolie's acting, we're never quite sure who's side she's on. She conveys emotion when she has to and turns it off when it's time to kick ass - par for the course from the creator of Equilibrium. The film seems aware of the fact that it's a vehicle for Jolie, and never really gets in her way. We're never out of sight from our leading lady for more than a minute. Her performance here is definitely more in the vein of Wanted than Changeling, but she's at least somewhat interesting to watch.



In fact, the cast isn't uninteresting and does rather well all around. None of the performances feel forced, none of the actors gnaw on the scenery and they're given interesting stuff to do. Liev Schreiber has quickly grown on me as a supporting actor, with a quiet intensity and growling voice that isn't overshadowed by Angelina's presence. Chiwetel Ejiofor isn't bad, either, channeling a bit of the drive that informed his performance as the Operative in Serenity. The script is fine, never going into camp territory or stopping to wink at the audience. The action is at least somewhat inventive in places and it's shot well by Noyce, never becoming too confusing or too loud, a tip some other directors could take. In fact, all of these elements make it a more-than-decent thriller, and a thrill ride besides.

But the best writing and acting in the world can't overcome a bad premise. It's like building a brilliantly designed and carefully constructed house on a beach with bricks of sand as your foundation. It's not going to end well. Salt never completely collapses, but the idea that the spectre of Soviet aggression would rise up from the shadows of the past to seek revenge on America for a war that never got to the shooting stages and resolved itself almost two decades ago is pretty preposterous. I can think of at least a few people who will see this film, take it as at least partial fact, and use it as just another thing that we should be afraid of, in addition to terrorism, socialist medicine, communist market oversight and fascist environmental controls. BE AFRAID. WE ARE THE GOVERNMENT. OBEY US.

Dammit, there I go getting political again. I told my controller therapist very patient readers I wouldn't do that any more.

*twitch*



Stuff I Liked: Decent script, well-shot action and a brisk pace.
Stuff I Didn't Like: Dammit, leave Russia alone. The war's over.
Stuff I Loved: If I loved anything, it was seeing Angelina kicking ass and seeing how creatively she was dealing with the people she didn't kill.

Bottom Line: It's not a bad movie. It's a decent little espionage thriller that suffers from the aforementioned idiotic premise. Wait for it to come out on video. Because you know what you need to see in the cinemas this summer? Inception.

Seriously. Stop reading the forums, leave your place, go see Inception.

Fallout 3 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.162959] ? Mass Effect [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.164517] ? Daybreakers (Film) [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.168877] ? Brütal Legend [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.169379] ? BioShock [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.174422] ? Dragon Age: Origins [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.176099] ? BioShock 2 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.176493] ? Zelda II The Adventure of Link [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.177811] ? Mass Effect 2 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.178213]Assassin's Creed II [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.193157] ? Wing Commander: Privateer [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.193913] ? Iron Man 2 (film) [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.194106] ? Maschine Zeit (tabletop) [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.203940] ? Lamb (book) [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.205422] ? Salt (film)

(Escapist posts only)Push [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.156655] ? Up [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.158128] ? Valkyrie [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.159455] ? In The Name Of The King: A Dungeon Seige Tale [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.160968] ? Snatch. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.162340] ? The House Bunny [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.163942] ? The Mutant Chronicles [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.165087] ? Battlestar Galactica [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.166587] ? A Terminator Retrospective [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.168461] ? Gattaca [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.170242] ? The Hurt Locker [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.171867] ? Flash Gordon [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.173357] ? Starship Troopers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.174847] ? Sneakers [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.176309] ? Wanted [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.177667] ? The Gamers: Dorkness Rising [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.179053] ? Jumper [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.180481] ? Inglorious Basterds [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.181937] ? Pokémon 3: The Movie [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.183701] ? Reservoir Dogs [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.185152] ? Pulp Fiction [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.187258] ?
Crash [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.188842] ? The Fifth Element [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.190372] ? Predator [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.191907] ? Adaptation. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.193370] ? The Octagon [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.194799] ? Avatar [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.196447] ? Ghost in the Shell [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.197872] ? Dark City [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.199535] ? Brokeback Mountain [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.201474] ? Grandma's Boy [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.203270] ? The Departed [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.204724] ? The Adventures of Robin Hood [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.206509] ? Total Recall [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.210190] ? The Hangover [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/326.214962]
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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BlueInkAlchemist, please don't take this the wrong way but in reading this it seems like your writing from a perspective somewhat seperated from reality, probably based heavily on wishful thinking, but still well off kilter.

It should be noted that tensions with Russia have been re-building for quite some time as they get back into their previous ways. Do not forget that Russia was caught red handed attempting to influance an election in Ukraine through poisoning/assasination. They have also been involved in a fairly major military build up, engaged in an invasion of the nation of Georgia, and also cut the fuel to the UK. Oh, and on top of this they more or less threatened to nuke Poland for hosting an anti-missle base, which was a threat because it would hamper their abillity to fire missles deeper into the EU (or accross it) without taking out Poland first.

Then of course there have also been mentions here and there about Russia being all upset over the violation of treaties with the now-defunct USSR... a goverment which arguably no longer exists, but Russia feels treaties with should be abided by. Most notably the development of missle interception technologies which have been being used by the US in a number of conflicts, most notably in The Middle East, and connected to others which the goverment strongly implies from time to time exist. The original Cold War treaties existing to ensure MAD and prevent the conflict of that time going "hot" since it would effectively mean the annihilation of the entire human race. The US and China however have been going at it, China stole (or bought) military secrets from Clinton (and was caught), and have been developing anti-satellite laser systems which can blind our satellites which of course will make targeting them with missles more difficult, while at the same time building up their military (do a search for China, Satellite, and lasers... I've posted links before). The US has not reacted effectively, but has been building up technologies in respose... which of course butthurts the Russians on a number of levels, including the fact that we didn't
bother to even confer with them.

Oh yes, and we've of course recently busted a spy ring in the US as you probably heard. Whether it was a latent spy ring, or one that was actually doing anything is debatable. The issue being almost funny because our morality has gotten to the point where we've become more concerned about evidence than security. We pretty much wound up trading them for Russian prisoners (which is an acknowlegement of what they were up to), but these were the kinds of guys who should have been disappeared to one of those little prisons for spies and terrorists everyone gets all upset about.

Even if you disagree with me on some of the specifics and my take on some of this, if you bother to check on this stuff (all public knowlege, and easily searchable) you'd notice Russia has not been a friend of the US and it's allies for a while now. A lot of people don't want to address that fact given the optimistic "peace at any price" principles which are so popular at the moment.

The US has long expressed it's concerns and attitudes through it's media. Hollywood doesn't tend to pussyfoot around when it comes to who it thinks the bad guys are.

I haven't seen "Salt" but I know the premise, and let's be entire honest... while it was years ago Russia *DID* try and whack a foreign leader (and more or less succeeded, the poison used in Ukraine did a lot of damage) and did so because he was sympathetic to the west, and they wanted a guy closer to their own interests. Classic "Cold War" behavior from their intelligence agencies. The recent "spy ring" bit does show that Russian intelligence is at least trying to operate in the US again, while this happened while the movie was under production (ie it didn't inspire it), it does give a certain veneer of legitimacy to the idea of Russian agents in the US. Of course the level of the plot (killing The President) is fantasy at this point, but it *IS* a movie.

The entire "Georgia" thing was also very oppertunistic. Even if you support some of the given justifications for the invasion, consider that they went further than that when they decided to mess with the EU energy supply, showing that they aren't afraid to try and apply brutal leverage. Nor are they exactly making bones about threats as was shown with Poland. This was oppertunistic because the US and UK (who would be the major deterrants when it came to an actual attack on the EU) were tied up in The Middle East. Given the very localized interests of EU powers Russia was making it clear to a lot of people there (or so it seemed to me) that they could play "kick the can" with the EU anytime they wanted to while a lot of it's defenses were otherwise occupied, and the EU was dependant on them for energy.

The point here being that despite what some people like Yahtzee might think (he seems to have something of an anti-American axe to grind), this kind of thing isn't posturing or some kind of nostolgia over "The Cold War". It's "ripped from the headlines" type stuff if you've been paying attention. It should be noted that while China is also used as a bad guy due to their build up and a lot of their expressed sentiments, it's not as extreme as this for the most part because the disturbing trends aside they have yet to actually do much, Russia on the other hand has been doing a lot recently. It's not the US that is aching for a "Cold War round 2" but Russia pretty much flexing it's muscles, and getting it's ambitions of empire back. Truthfully the pseudo-American principles they embraced after the US's fall didn't make them rich and successful (which happens, with Capitolism not everyone is a winner), it seems that they are working towards trying to combine some of those attitudes with their old ones, sort of embracing a maxim the US used to understand "Free trade means those with the biggest guns trade freely". Russia might not literally have the biggest guns, but they're working on it and with the current morality embraced by the US and other nations, they can get a similar result by being willing to use those guns (and having a lot of them).

apologies for the length, not sure if you've read all this, and if you did chances are we are probably going to have to agree to disagree, but seriously... look up some of the stuff I mentioned. I think your being a bit too harsh on the premise of this movie.
 

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
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Therumancer said:
-snipping some long-winded but well-reasoned points-
The problem I have with the premise of this film and some of the notions coming out of the media is that the United States and Russia are destined to engage in open hostilities. I just don't see how that would end well for anybody involved.

There's no doubt people out there have "an anti-American axe to grind" as you say. As MovieBob put it, Americans are arrogant. I know I suffer from it as much as the next Yankee. There's a reason why, in a movie like Salt, an American protagonist, even if they're a deep Russian sleeper agent, is going to gain the upper hand, save the world and kill the bad guys. We're the super-heroes in our own comic books. It's a little juvenile, when you think about it.

That kind of attitude bears watching. That means espionage. I'm sure Americans are being spied on. By Russians, members of the Taliban, the Chinese, NATO powers, even other Americans. It's nothing new. If something concerns you, you keep an eye on it.

Espionage does not automatically mean open conflict. In fact, if it gets to the point of a car chase or a gunfight, the espionage has failed. So, when the US busted that Russian spy ring recently, was I surprised? Not really. I'm sure the US has spies all over the world as we speak.

I do see your point but I have to opine the idea that espionage inevitably leads to open conflict is very far-fetched. To anticipate that sort of hostility is to live in perpetual fear, and that is something I refuse to do.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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BlueInkAlchemist said:
Therumancer said:
-snipping some long-winded but well-reasoned points-
The problem I have with the premise of this film and some of the notions coming out of the media is that the United States and Russia are destined to engage in open hostilities. I just don't see how that would end well for anybody involved.

There's no doubt people out there have "an anti-American axe to grind" as you say. As MovieBob put it, Americans are arrogant. I know I suffer from it as much as the next Yankee. There's a reason why, in a movie like Salt, an American protagonist, even if they're a deep Russian sleeper agent, is going to gain the upper hand, save the world and kill the bad guys. We're the super-heroes in our own comic books. It's a little juvenile, when you think about it.

That kind of attitude bears watching. That means espionage. I'm sure Americans are being spied on. By Russians, members of the Taliban, the Chinese, NATO powers, even other Americans. It's nothing new. If something concerns you, you keep an eye on it.

Espionage does not automatically mean open conflict. In fact, if it gets to the point of a car chase or a gunfight, the espionage has failed. So, when the US busted that Russian spy ring recently, was I surprised? Not really. I'm sure the US has spies all over the world as we speak.

I do see your point but I have to opine the idea that espionage inevitably leads to open conflict is very far-fetched. To anticipate that sort of hostility is to live in perpetual fear, and that is something I refuse to do.
Well, to be honest Moviebob was also wrong when he made the comments about American arrogance. To be honest we're probably the most humble and self-critical people in the world, though that is a comparitive point. It should be noted that when you look at fiction created by other countries their own people are ALSO the heroes, with very few exceptions. The US arguably produces more fiction that features foreign protaganists of one sort or another than other nations do. I mean you can look at the origins of various characters in "The X-men" for example and find characters that have come from all over the world nowadays, in comparison when you see works from say France or whatever the protaganists are usually French, etc. To be honest when looking for other people who have used foreign protaganists of the same sort the only exceptions I can think of are the occasional Anime, or a couple of core titles in the UK's "2100 AD" though as some people have pointed out that is making fun of America as much as anything at the same time as telling the stories.

Also, we are the dominant world super power, and pretty much the champions of the western world and culture. Nobody ever likes the dominant world power as everyone wants their culture to be dominant. For all the screaming about American arrogance, it's no worse than what Britan was producing during the reign of The British Empire at the same time, it's just that information technology has advanced spreading this stuff out more.

When it comes to espionage and warfare, I am also going to say that your very naive. It's important to note that right now China in paticular has ambitions of world domination, they have even said so if you do your research on the subject. They are building up a massive military machine, want to avenge their trivialization by the west, and as much as anything want more living space to deal with their population problems without having to maintain their current draconian problems.

On top if it, an increasing number of people are coming around to the conclusion that a world unity is going to be nessicary for humanity. A single goverment and culture that everyone belongs to. Such a thing is nessicary for space travel and to obtain more resources. Almost everyone on the other hand wants their culture, language, and perhaps ethnicity to be the dominant one that everyone else effectively joins (or becomes vassals to). Things are coming to a head there, and one of the signs of this are the various "national firewalls" and so on. One of the big problems cultures are facing is losing their identities slowly due to the spread of outside ideas, which is arguably the way how most people are going to be unified. As some people have pointed out the US is conquering the world with The "Big Mac" and "Starbucks" (or other brands and businesses) not to mention Hollywood movies and TV show we don't need guns and bombs. For all claims that we're ignorant, the biggest threat a lot of countries feel they face are people talking to Americans and gradually not only agreeing with us but wanting to be us. There is plenty to read on this subject if you look, one of the most vocal critics is France, where they have allegedly passed laws regulating things like how many foreign/American movies can be shown in proportion to domestically produced French movies and the like at various times.

At any rate, peace has so far been maintained by the existance of weapons of mass destruction and ICBMs. With various third world and rogue nations getting access to this technology there has been a push to develop defenses to deal with well armed whack jobs, which are incidently just as effective against other major powers. The current "ultimate" military weapon that has been maintaining the peace has been around for decades, and tech advances, it's about to become obselete. That means power is increasingly going to be based on more conventional methods of warfare, and nations like Russia and China with huge populations and industry are preparing for the point at which people become confident in ICBMs being more or less irrelevent. People who claim that business and economics will prevent any kind of a war are naive since businessmen throughout history have ALWAYS claimed this before major wars. Heck, people were arguably claiming the same kinds of things in Rome right as it fell (hey if we fall, who will maintain the roads everyone uses? The barbarians outside the gate? Oh they are just here to trade, no need for the legions...).

As a lot of people have also been pointing out for years the world is a more primed powder keg that perhaps any other point in history. Things like the respect of patents and intellectual properties are going to inevitably going to lead to war because the fate of nations literally rests on that issue and contridictory positions. See, China's economy and prosperity is almost totally based on the idea of analyzing, knocking off, and selling the inventions of other nations. Not just video games and media (which is usually mentioned here) but things like drugs, electronics, and even clothing. Knock offs of drugs like Viagra and designer jeans are oddly two of the biggest issues. Even if they don't pay damages, if China stopped doing this it's progress would stop, it's economy would collapse, and it would sink back into a trivialized hell hole. On the other hand nations like the US and UK are dependant on people respecting the patents for our innovations (which we tax the sale of heavily, and which the goverments oftentimes have a direct stake in if they donated towards the development of a drug or whatever). The situation continues, a lot of western nations are going to fall because of it. Not a dramatic "Good vs. Evil" battle like World War II, but one where the fate of nations hangs in the balance, and we're not currently in the midst of a global firestorm because of WMD.... which again are becoming obselete. The biggest bomb in the world is pointless if you can't get it to the target. It was the ICBMs and things like satellite/computer targeting that ensured the peace more than the payload. The idea that if someone waged major war it would start an automated process involving missles capable of covering the globe which would kill everyone. Blind the satellites, or hack computers, or other methods (especially the former) and no more MAD. It comes back to conventional weapons, and people having to get this big honking bombs into relatively close proximity of the target (and frankly, it means the bombs have to be smaller to avoid killing the people using them to boot... you aren't going to launch a 200 megaton city killer from the back of a truck).


The point I'm getting to here is that movies like "Salt" are indicative of the time we live in. Right now we are looking at a time where most people realize the balance of power is hanging by a thread. People are dancing the dance getting ready for the open hostilities that are inevitable unless something major changes. China, the US/West, and increasingly Russia are three of the biggest players heading for a collision course since we all pretty much want to run the world our own way (so to speak). India is inevitably going to get involved here somewhere before the end too, and everyone knows it.

I think a lot of people, especially those on the leftward side of things, tend to be stuck in the "Clinton Era" mentality where the US was in a very prosperous cycle, and things were seemingly pretty peaceful. The Russians were tenatively our friends, China wasn't a major threat and the issues with patents and such existed but were a shadow of what they are now. Peace looked like it was going to reign. People weren't as critical of China getting their hands on military secrets at the time because people were naive and didn't see where things were going, so it was let go in favor of more "interesting" issues like what Bill Clinton might have been up to with an Intern (which when you think of it, is a sign of stupidity and decadence, for all the things Clinton should have been criticized for that one to me strikes me as being the most irrelevent).

Don't forget that when 9/11 started we basically didn't have an intelligence service, that is why we were freaking out because we didn't know who attacked us. What few resources we had, had their hands more or less tied and were not being used. Before the terrorists took credit we were basically using European intelligence sources for our information. The rebuilding of US intelligence was a big deal, leading to concerns over our own "Intelligence Czar" and what it could lead to and so on. Things like "The Patriot Act" are a big issue because people got so used to a time of peace, that people had totally forgotten about the need for security and what a conflict might entail. The Patriot Act ultimatly being a sort of compromise between peacetime operation and martial law (in simple terms).

You might not like it, but "Salt" isn't out of line, it's a product of the time. Sort of like the old Kevin Costner vehicle "No Way Out" for a new generation since there are similar issues in play right now.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
9,909
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Furburt said:
I suppose its somewhat relevant now, given the recent discovery of Russian sleeper agents, although given the films timing and production schedule, that was most probably just a fluke.

I probably won't be seeing it however, mainly due to Angelina Jolie, whom I despise. Almost as much as Julia Roberts. 2 hours of just constant her doesn't sound like my cup of tea.
Besides, as you said, Inception is a callin.

Good review, as always.
Therumancer said:
Ooh. Well, I have to say, while it's certainly an interesting read you've got there, I can't help thinking you might be looking for a political discussion in the wrong place, given that this is just a film review.
Ummm, well the film review is by and large critical because of the global situation. Given that that is the major focus of the criticism being leveled, disagreeing by it's nature is going to warrent this kind of discussion, which becomes "on topic" because of the slant of the review.... and I just wrote another long response back.

As I understand it, the review is basically saying that Salt suffers/is a bad movie, because it's based on a conflict that doesn't exist, and rooted in an alleged desire for the US to be at war with the Russians again so we can justify our self importance. The implication being that the world is a peaceful place right now, and the only issues like this out there are ones Americans are creating in the cinema for our own entertainment. I am disagreeing with that by saying that the premise of this movie isn't a paranoid American powerfantasy or Jingoistic delusion, it's more along the lines of an actual "ripped from the headlines" thriller, especially given recent events. Face it, the US and Russia are not friends anymore, and we are coming into conflict. Heck, the US has a lot of enemies right now.

Basically if someone is going to criticize something politically, it's fair game/logical to disagree with it the same way.

To me the idea of the movie reminds me a lot of the old movie "No Way Out" with Kevin Costner many years ago. It works because the climate has become very similar.

I'll also say that if the focus was changed and someone used the same basic premise for a new "James Bond" movie, I doubt anyone would have batted an eye. Say Russians out to kill the British Parliment (or any US leader), MI6 hearing the chatter, and Bond having to rush to stop the conspirators and what turns out to be the beautiful deep cover agent. :p

Stop and think about that for a second. While I suppose there is no way to prove that, one of the reasons why the review irks me is because it seems to be saying that there is something wrong with this largely because it so heavily involves Americans.
 

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
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Theru, I never said that Salt was a bad movie. Just that it suffers from a premise that, in my opinion, works too hard to bring the Soviet Union back from the dead. You did read my entire review, yes?

Again, this is a subjective review, since my viewpoint on a film is going to vary greatly from yours. You might accept the premise but hate something about the film I really liked.

And I might be naive, but I'm also aware of the fact that allowing the fear of a possible attack from any number of America's enemies (and we do have quite a few) to rule my entire life is what any number of people want me to do, from the Taliban to the neo-conservatives in our own government and media. I raise a finger to that idea. Guess which one.

If you want to continue this conversation, please PM me. Let's keep the thread focused on the film rather than the politics, all right?
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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Aug 11, 2009
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Therumancer said:
-ker-snippety-
I was all set to point out that the whole "let's resurrect the old Cold War antagonism" mindset videogames (and now films it would seem) have adopted just might have something to do with how the current Russian administration has been busy conducting itself like the USSR did during the Cold War, and how they have not exactly been our "bestest buddies" for some while now... but you've already pointed that out in far greater detail than I was going to. So I'm just going to applaud you for being very well informed, unlike most of our countrymen - it would routinely astonish me how ignorant of world events (and the ramifications they hold for us) the average American citizen is if I still had any particular faith in humanity left.
 

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
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Gildan Bladeborn said:
Therumancer said:
-ker-snippety-
I was all set to point out that the whole "let's resurrect the old Cold War antagonism" mindset videogames (and now films it would seem) have adopted just might have something to do with how the current Russian administration has been busy conducting itself like the USSR did during the Cold War, and how they have not exactly been our "bestest buddies" for some while now... but you've already pointed that out in far greater detail than I was going to. So I'm just going to applaud you for being very well informed, unlike most of our countrymen - it would routinely astonish me how ignorant of world events (and the ramifications they hold for us) the average American citizen is if I still had any particular faith in humanity left.
*sigh*

A lot of this just smacks of plain old-fashioned Glenn Beckian fear-mongering. Yes, there are threats to the United States and other nations. Yes, people want to kill other people. It's nothing new. So yes, you're very well-informed. Congratulations. Is there anything you can do with that information other than spreading fear that some would use as a means of control over common citizens like you and me?

Again, I ask these conversations take place somewhere besides my review of a summer movie. We're continuing to drag the thread off-topic. I very nearly said nothing to prevent further topic drift, but if someone doesn't speak up, the fear-mongering will have prevailed and I can't allow that.
 

Gildan Bladeborn

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Aug 11, 2009
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BlueInkAlchemist said:
Oh you did not just compare me to Glenn Beck, it's totally on now! Because he is an asshole.

Seriously though, you thought it was contrived and dated how video games and this film raise the specter of the old Soviet "Evil Empire" as villains, and all I was going to do (but didn't since Therumancer did so in off-topically epic length already) was establish that those writers are not exactly "stuck in a rut" like that of our seemingly perpetual fascination with World War 2 and just using anachronistic Cold War inspiration. Russia is our ally only in the sense that we are not at war with them, and since Putin took over the Iron Curtain has been progressively going back up - cracking down on journalistic freedom (via murdering journalists if the world's suspicions are correct[footnote]About who is behind the murder that is, there's no question that an inordinate amount of journalists inclined to be critical of the Putin administration have turned up dead.[/footnote]), invading neighboring countries, political assassination, espionage, etc - never mind how Russia provides extremely hostile nations like Iran with nuclear technology, or can't seem to keep track of its Cold War nuclear stockpile.

So yeah, making films where Russia is behind the sort of plot that Salt depicts isn't necessarily a throwback to the "Red Scare", it's a reflection of current events that I was going to point out but didn't have to because Therumancer is spectacularly well-informed. How you jump from me congratulating Therumancer for being well informed to the conclusion that I advocate the knee-jerk fear-mongering of asshats like Glenn Beck is beyond me.

No, I merely advocate knowledge - a well-informed electorate is crucial to preserving our ability to hold our elected officials accountable, so if you don't know what's going on in the world, how are you supposed to judge their reactions to it? The depressing truth is that most people living here don't have a clue about the political landscape of their own bloody country, let alone global politics, and therefore leave themselves that much more open to manipulation through propaganda and fear-mongering - the thing about those is they don't really work if you try them on well-informed audiences.

Therumancer clearly pays attention to world politics, I tipped my metaphorical hat to him and decried the woeful apathy of the American electorate while noting that there is a present day rationale for script writers using Russia as the bad guy, the end - there is simply no reason to compare me to that jackass Beck based on what I typed. Not cool dude, not cool.
 

BlueInkAlchemist

Ridiculously Awesome
Jun 4, 2008
2,231
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Gildan Bladeborn said:
-snippity snip-
I responded to you in PM. I asked you to PM me if you wished to continue. You ignored me.

This is a forum for film reviews. Not political debate. I brought up politics, I know, I apologize for that. Let's at least keep it civil and short and take the conversations elsewhere if we can't.

EDIT: Also, is there a reason neither have you fine gentlemen have taken your research and information over to MovieBob's review of this same movie? You know, the one where he opines that Russia must be sick and tired of being the bad guy despite the Cold War ending? Just thought I'd make you aware of the fact he's said the same things I have and obviously is as misinformed and naive as Yours Truly.
 

Bazamm

New member
Nov 27, 2009
21
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I don't quite see how BlueInkAlchemist is naive because he disagrees about the "Russian bad guys" conundrum, its merely his opinion.

Back on topic; Good, in depth review that is easy to follow and comprehend. Well done!