Savage Ghost Recon review from Destructiod

CritialGaming

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Holy crap, I didn't think the game was all that great, but I'm not even harsh enough to give it a 2.5.

Jesus, I hope they don't get Jim Sterlinged for this.

https://www.destructoid.com/review-ghost-recon-wildlands-425478.phtml

That's the review....check it out if you want. Or don't. They gave it a 2.5/10. So....
 

Saelune

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If it is a 2.5 out of 10, then it is either out of spite, or they picked someone who only likes games that Ghost Recon isnt.

I can understand people not liking it, I can understand people thinking it is just ok. Is it a 8 9 or 10? No. But a 2 out of 10 is really something for a game that doesnt even work. Like that Assassin's Creed that...didnt work.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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American Tanker said:
It's Destructoid, so I know automatically to disregard their opinions.
It's an Ubisoft title though. I think some reviewers are just getting as tired of the same old repetitive AAA crap as the rest of us and they're just no longer afraid of voicing their true honest opinion. And that's just what a review should be - just one guy's honest opinion. And I trust a reviewer a lot more if he's not afraid to demolish a highly anticipated game like this than I do a reviewer that gives every AAA game at least an 8/10 despite it's obvious glaring flaws.
 

Silentpony_v1legacy

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Okay so I'm not usually one to disagree with the review, 'cause its not my opinion and I couldn't care less about anyone else's. But complaining the game is bad because you failed all the stealth missions and kept dying in fire-fights? No offense, how is that the game's fault? Isn't that like complaining Arkham Island is a bad game because you keep getting spotted?

And yeah the missions are kinda' samey, but always a little different. Like okay, steal an airplane. They're in a wide field with no cover, no sneaky parts and snipers in a guard tower during the day. Next one is steal an airplane, but they're on a cliff with lots vegetation, twice as many guards, a minigun emplacement and its night. And you have to clear the area before the pilot takes off and the plane is lost. It allows for different approaches and tactics.

And I've never experienced this 'shut-off' AI they speak of. Yeah the people you're chasing do eventually get out of the car and get on the ground, but that's only after you've run them off road, shot all their tires and totaled the engine block so their car literally can't move anymore and you have 4 rifles trained on them.

As for glitches the only 'glitch' I've encountered was my helicopter was shot down and crashed into the rocks, and a rock was lodging the driver door shut. So instead my character just popped out of the helicopter to the side instead of the door bugging through the rock. And honestly I'm willing to overlook that.

I'm not saying their opinion is wrong, and they're certainly entitled to not like the game. It just seems their opinion is formed on both poor gameplay skills and a misinterpretation of what's going on in the missions. I mean for fucks sake the 'tail the enemy' mission, you're not supposed to sneak up on him! He's supposed to get into a car and drive away and you're supposed to follow him! It doesn't call for stealth, it calls for a car! They make that very clear in the mission briefing you're supposed to infiltrate the village without getting seen and get a car to follow the man. And you only have like 60sec to do it before he gets in his car and drives away, regardless if you've been spotted or not. You're not supposed to sneak up on the man himself.

I'm loving the game! I hope more people buy it!
 

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Saelune said:
If it is a 2.5 out of 10, then it is either out of spite, or they picked someone who only likes games that Ghost Recon isnt.

I can understand people not liking it, I can understand people thinking it is just ok. Is it a 8 9 or 10? No. But a 2 out of 10 is really something for a game that doesnt even work. Like that Assassin's Creed that...didnt work.
Honestly I give it a 7.5, up to an 8 or 8.5 when you're playing with friends and being both all sneaky and totally Archer. Best game ever? Naw. Top 10 for the year? Yeah, maybe. #9 or #10

2.5 is Digital Homicide numbers. That's Arkham Knight the first day numbers. That's literally for games that are broken.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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I think they're getting jealous of Sterling's attention. It will be hilarious if nobody kicked up a fuss about it. All those clicks that earns Jim nothing, that affects his income nary a dime...All those clicks that destructoid still sorely needs. They must be looking at his Zelda review like a bitter ex looking at their old girlfriend loving life with a new partner.
 

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Since we are here discussing reviews, it seems like everone reviewing the gmae is complaining about politics yet again.

Eurogamer- http://archive.is/govHN
"Wildlands is that familiar glossy contradiction, the "gritty" quasi-realistic open world blockbuster - a work of great craft and care that's also a work of macabre war tourism, wowing you with its geography even as it casually up-sells the bankrupt fantasy of playing global policeman. Aside from being another Ubisoft love letter to icon-studded map screens, it reprises the fond Tom Clancy daydream that the answer to every festering international dilemma is a squad of all-American roughnecks armed with a list of names and a relaxed definition of collateral damage. It's a game about extrajudicial murder whose creators have taken the time to animate children playing hopscotch in schoolyards, a realm of soothing splendour in which you'll kick in the door of a village church to retrieve a laser sight accessory from the altar. It is by turns plodding and vivid, entertaining and abhorrent. I can't quite bring myself to loathe it, but it says a lot that I keep trying to escape it - or at least, to escape the part Wildlands expects me to play in reshaping its coked-up appropriation of Bolivia
Ghost Recon: Wildlands' premise reads like a 5am Trump tweet

It's easier to ignore the game's fundamental toxicity and hand-worn elements in co-op, but all that's still there at the back of your mind, like the smell of something burning in a crowded room. Earlier in the week I asked whether the Ubisoft open world had run out of steam. After a few days in the Wildlands I think the answer is a hesitant 'no' - few development studios are capable of landscapes as grand yet delicately worked as this, but the methods by which we traverse and uncover them are overdue a rethink, and the concept of a godlike special operator killing without undue compunction is rotten to the core. Wildlands is a world worth lingering over, but I need a better reason to make the trip."

Digital Trends-http://archive.is/vIiEj
"The trouble is that Ghost Recon isn?t good at being both things at once. Taken at face value, it?s impossible not to see the game?s shortcomings...and its premise can feel ? problematic.
and much of the plot and lore trades in stereotypes and gross militarism
Similar to Ubisoft?s last modern military game, The Division, Wildlands? premise and plot swerves into some unsettling political statements. Effectively, your Ghost Recon team is an unauthorized military force wandering around a foreign nation, shooting whoever you like. The game chastises you for killing civilians with a ?hey, you bozo!? kind of attitude. The radios, which turn on whenever you get in a car, are awash with Mexican stereotypes (the cartel is a Mexican transplant). For all of its silliness, there are also moments where its brotastic jokes and quite self-righteous ooh-rah militarism feels earnest and unsettling."

Ars Techinca- http://archive.is/XeWle
"While the reasons for your arrival in Bolivia might be clear, the justifications for your actions are absolutely not. Wildlands is, on its surface, a standard action game set in a tropical South American nation, but its blas? acceptance of American interventionism?as well as its careless casting of the Ghosts as ?good guys??creates an unpleasant edge to the story it tries to tell. Chances are you won?t like the Ghosts themselves, and nor should you: they?re a bad bunch of grossly immoral dickheads doing morally questionable things in the name of the ?greater good.? Ripped straight from the W. Bush Playbook of 2003, both the Ghosts and their handler, a woman called Bowman, are just nasty.
The ugly
Those politics, man. Damn those politics.

Polygon- http://archive.is/duQi7
Too much to excerpt here, the more than half the review is dedicated to hand wringing over thematics and tone, rather than gameplay or technical details (so far so Polygon...)
Kotaku-http://archive.is/8sooC
"But Wildland?s core is far more insipid. It is propaganda. It is jingoism made playable, perpetuating the failed logic that all it takes to solve the world?s woes is enough ammo.
They churn out banter that moves from unbearably dull to patently offensive, tossing out the kind of pithy one-liner that only teenagers would find cool before sitting down to make a homophobic joke. Wildlands wants them to feel alluring, but they mostly just feel like assholes.
The nature of your companions? chatter exemplifies Wildlands? biggest issue. It pretends to be politically mature, but it has nothing of value to say. Caught between Grand Theft Auto and ARMA, Wildlands can?t conjure cogent or meaningful gameplay systems, nor does it even bother to consider the real world ramifications of its gun happy gameplay.
Wildlands, continuing in the footsteps of The Division, is a game about being special and empowered. You are the player. The person with the gun. The government operative with the license to kill. Your enemies are the savage ?other?, no better than wild dogs that need to be put down. Bolivia is your playground, made to look like any other video game warzone. It is only the occasional corrido playing over the radio or small bit of environmental design that conveys any humanity.
There are times where it feels like Wildlands wants to say something. The game makes heavy reference to social media and information warfare but never does more than note how the cartel maintains a powerful media presence, which the game is keen to show in glitzy, tone confused briefing sequences. Wildlands also thrives on jingoism. It wants to talk about ?narco-states? but can only muster the brutish El Sue?o as the villain while depicting a caricature of Bolivia. The result is rubbish. Wildlands? gameplay is too chaotic to call back to Tom Clancy classics like Rainbow Six or the series? earlier titles. Its politics are too vapid to compete with the Splinter Cell series? pulpy yet prescient narratives. Wildlands wants to be everything. It succeeds at being nothing."

The Guardian- http://archive.is/HWVDw
" Instead of a living, breathing country, Wildlands feel like Westworld for the Guns & Ammo crowd. Which, of course, is essentially what it is. A chance for players to live out their hardline Republican fantasies largely unencumbered by law or morality (killing civilians will theoretically cause missions to fail but the developers have built in plenty of leeway). In this near future nightmare scenario Bolivia has been transformed into a narco-state run by the all-powerful Santa Blanca cartel headed up by the heavily-tattooed jefe, El Sueno ? a representation, by the way, that has sparked a real-world diplomatic incident between Bolivia and Ubisoft?s home country, France. You take on the role of an elite US soldier sent in undercover and off the books to destabilise the drug runners by murdering them in their thousands. Ghost Recon at least does a good job of making light of this state-sponsored genocide."
 

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Yeah no, even if you don't like Ubisoft games Ghost Recon Wildlands is not a 2.5 out of 10, that's a ridiculous rating. Just another example why to not trust ''professional'' reviewers.
 

BoogieManFL

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Wait a moment...

I've logged at least 20 hours in the game so far and I've yet to encounter anything that is an instant game over for being detected. Am I fortunate to have not encountered it yet, or was that guy in the review exaggerating?


This is the first Ubisoft game I've bought or played in many years. I generally don't like Ubisoft, and there are some things about the game that annoy me, but a 2.5 is not realistic in any way. I'm happy I just very lightly skimmed his review and didn't really read it.
 

Mcgeezaks

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BoogieManFL said:
Wait a moment...

I've logged at least 20 hours in the game so far and I've yet to encounter anything that is an instant game over for being detected. Am I fortunate to have not encountered it yet, or was that guy in the review exaggerating?


This is the first Ubisoft game I've bought or played in many years. I generally don't like Ubisoft, and there are some things about the game that annoy me, but a 2.5 is not realistic in any way. I'm happy I just very lightly skimmed his review and didn't really read it.
There are a couple of missions that results in game over if you're detected. I've only encountered 2-3 of those missions and I'm about 20 hours in as well.
 

Jerast

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There's no way in hell it's a 2.5.

It's at least a 6-7 and that's not even a damning score, I think it's good anyway.
 

pookie101

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i havent seen people complain that its outright broken enough to get that sort of score. at most that its dull and repetitive and people have seen it done dozens of times before so give it a 5 or 6... middle of the road average.. although a 5-6 these days to most players is -5000000/10
 

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gyrobot said:
Since we are here discussing reviews, it seems like everone reviewing the gmae is complaining about politics yet again.
Is that technically bad?

Using the Polygon article as an example, I can certainly sympathize with those who feel it doesn't impart enough info about the gameplay, but I would say it's well written in of itself (also helps that I'm a fan of Noah's YouTube videos).

I'm also on the "games are art" end of the spectrum, so as art, this kind of critique is fair game. And this being a game in the Clancyverse, politics (specifically, right-wing, pro-military politics) are part of the package (or at least I'd expect them to be).
 

American Tanker

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Fucking hell, everything's gotta be political...

I know I'm never going to read Polygon, because Vox is a massive shithole. But god dammit, why do all games have to be taken politically?
 

Hawki

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American Tanker said:
But god dammit, why do all games have to be taken politically?
-There's the argument that art is inherently political. I don't agree with the letter of that claim, but do agree with the spirit, that art inherently reflects the creator's values.

-Many people treat games as art.

-Clancyverse works deal with real-world scenarios, and most certainly reflect(ed) the author's politics.

-I think the claim that "all games" are being taken politically is stretching things.

So, ergo, in my mind, treating Wildlands in the context of only its narrative is fair game.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
If it is a 2.5 out of 10, then it is either out of spite, or they picked someone who only likes games that Ghost Recon isnt.

I can understand people not liking it, I can understand people thinking it is just ok. Is it a 8 9 or 10? No. But a 2 out of 10 is really something for a game that doesnt even work. Like that Assassin's Creed that...didnt work.
Jerast said:
There's no way in hell it's a 2.5.

It's at least a 6-7 and that's not even a damning score, I think it's good anyway.
BoogieManFL said:
but a 2.5 is not realistic in any way. I'm happy I just very lightly skimmed his review and didn't really read it.
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yeah no, even if you don't like Ubisoft games Ghost Recon Wildlands is not a 2.5 out of 10, that's a ridiculous rating. Just another example why to not trust ''professional'' reviewers.
Silentpony said:
2.5 is Digital Homicide numbers. That's Arkham Knight the first day numbers. That's literally for games that are broken.
Firstly, I have no comment an the actual review itself, I didn't read it. Secondly, a 5/10 is average just like a 2-star movie is average. Just because a 7/10 has become the average doesn't make it right. So if I feel a game is below average, I score it under a 5. There's many AAA games I find below average and thus under a 5. For example, the 1st Uncharted was basically a glorified tech demo and below average. I very much feel Rockstar's games are below average because linear missions in an open world gives little purpose to the open world, just make a linear game if you're going to have linear missions. I played the beta of Wildlands and the game is below average as well (it was so bad that I knew the Metacritic would end up below 80, which is quite an "accomplishment" for a AAA game). The previous Ghost Recon literally did everything better than Wildlands, with co-op and competitive too. Thus, a AAA game getting 2.5 is something that doesn't have to be done for spite (regardless if said review actually was done for spite). Blockbuster Hollywood movies get worse than a 2.5 sometimes. Just become there's shit games out there developed by the likes of Digital Homicide doesn't make all other games "better" or "at least a 5" because there's a ton of direct-to-video movies (like Steven Seagal movies) and that doesn't elevate a shitty Michael Bay movie to being more than shit.

Saying a review of 2.5 is wrong and the game is at least a 5 at worst is the same thing as the many people mad at Jim Sterling's 7/10 Zelda review saying the game is at least a 8.5 at worst.
 

Saelune

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Phoenixmgs said:
Saelune said:
If it is a 2.5 out of 10, then it is either out of spite, or they picked someone who only likes games that Ghost Recon isnt.

I can understand people not liking it, I can understand people thinking it is just ok. Is it a 8 9 or 10? No. But a 2 out of 10 is really something for a game that doesnt even work. Like that Assassin's Creed that...didnt work.
Jerast said:
There's no way in hell it's a 2.5.

It's at least a 6-7 and that's not even a damning score, I think it's good anyway.
BoogieManFL said:
but a 2.5 is not realistic in any way. I'm happy I just very lightly skimmed his review and didn't really read it.
BabyfartsMcgeezaks said:
Yeah no, even if you don't like Ubisoft games Ghost Recon Wildlands is not a 2.5 out of 10, that's a ridiculous rating. Just another example why to not trust ''professional'' reviewers.
Silentpony said:
2.5 is Digital Homicide numbers. That's Arkham Knight the first day numbers. That's literally for games that are broken.
Firstly, I have no comment an the actual review itself, I didn't read it. Secondly, a 5/10 is average just like a 2-star movie is average. Just because a 7/10 has become the average doesn't make it right. So if I feel a game is below average, I score it under a 5. There's many AAA games I find below average and thus under a 5. For example, the 1st Uncharted was basically a glorified tech demo and below average. I very much feel Rockstar's games are below average because linear missions in an open world gives little purpose to the open world, just make a linear game if you're going to have linear missions. I played the beta of Wildlands and the game is below average as well. The previous Ghost Recon literally did everything better than Wildlands, with co-op and competitive too. Thus, a AAA game getting 2.5 is something that doesn't have to be done for spite (regardless if said review actually was done for spite). Blockbuster Hollywood movies get worse than a 2.5 sometimes. Just become there's shit games out there developed by the likes of Digital Homicide doesn't make all other games "better" or "at least a 5" because there's a ton of direct-to-video movies (like Steven Seagal movies) and that doesn't elevate a shitty Michael Bay movie to being more than shit.

Saying a review of 2.5 is wrong and the game is at least a 5 at worst is the same thing as the many people mad at Jim Sterling's 7/10 Zelda review saying the game is at least a 8.5 at worst.
Except it is reasonable to assume he treats a 2.5 rating as a "Fuck you its bad" rating. A 5 Should be mediocre and honestly, many of my most favorite games are rated 7-8. But most people dont view scores that way, reviewers included. If the reviewer gave the game a 5 or higher, Id think nothing of it. I may like Wildlands, but not enough to be upset at a 5/10. Hell, Im not even upset at this, but I dont doubt he was just being spiteful.
 

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Phoenixmgs said:
Saelune said:
Saelune is correct. The metrics of scores should be pretty clear. You know what else has gotten a 2.5? Aliens: Colonial Marines [https://www.destructoid.com/review-aliens-colonial-marines-244276.phtml]. A literal broken game.
You know what ranked higher than Wildlands? Steel Battalion Heavy Armor [https://www.destructoid.com/review-steel-battalion-heavy-armor-229691.phtml] and Silent Hill HD collection [https://www.destructoid.com/review-silent-hill-hd-collection-224478.phtml]. Both games literally broken and unplayable.
You know what game is literally twice as good as Wildlands? Starless: Nymphomaniacs' Paradise [https://www.destructoid.com/review-starless-nymphomaniacs-paradise-292835.phtml]

Call me crazy but I don't think its a credible review to say Ghost Recon Wildlands offers less to the world of video games than fucking Steel Battalion.
 

Phoenixmgs_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
Except it is reasonable to assume he treats a 2.5 rating as a "Fuck you its bad" rating. A 5 Should be mediocre and honestly, many of my most favorite games are rated 7-8. But most people dont view scores that way, reviewers included. If the reviewer gave the game a 5 or higher, Id think nothing of it. I may like Wildlands, but not enough to be upset at a 5/10. Hell, Im not even upset at this, but I dont doubt he was just being spiteful.
I don't know the reviewer at all. If it was a Jim Sterling review, a 2.5 is basically the mid-point between shit and average. I know Jim Sterling uses 5 as average. The reviewer in question, I have no clue what his scale is like. But to me, a 2.5 for Wildlands is somewhere in the general territory I'd put it (a 4 at best in my opinion). I have no issue with Jim's reviews, but I personally don't find him a good reviewer based on mine and his tastes being different plus he does rush through games sometimes not even understanding basic game mechanics (like The Last Guardian, Vanquish, etc). I have no problem with Jim or anyone shitting on something I like, and I do love that Jim rates games based on his enjoyment alone vs giving the game "passing" or good scores because the game is functional with good polish. I at least can find some value in Jim's reviews vs not finding any in 99% of "professional" reviewers. When Jim does rate a game really highly, I know he really loved the game and I want to at least try games that elicit that kind of feeling from at least someone. When IGN gives a game a high rating, it doesn't really mean anything because of how common it is and in-line with everyone else too.

Silentpony said:
Saelune is correct. The metrics of scores should be pretty clear. You know what else has gotten a 2.5? Aliens: Colonial Marines [https://www.destructoid.com/review-aliens-colonial-marines-244276.phtml]. A literal broken game.
You know what ranked higher than Wildlands? Steel Battalion Heavy Armor [https://www.destructoid.com/review-steel-battalion-heavy-armor-229691.phtml] and Silent Hill HD collection [https://www.destructoid.com/review-silent-hill-hd-collection-224478.phtml]. Both games literally broken and unplayable.
You know what game is literally twice as good as Wildlands? Starless: Nymphomaniacs' Paradise [https://www.destructoid.com/review-starless-nymphomaniacs-paradise-292835.phtml]

Call me crazy but I don't think its a credible review to say Ghost Recon Wildlands offers less to the world of video games than fucking Steel Battalion.
The reviews are from a collection of different reviewers and from different times on Destructoid as well. The scale might have been interpreted differently when Jim was there as I'm guessing (without researching) that he was in charge of reviews (as he then came here and had that job) and his "use" of the scale was probably encouraged. That could've changed quite a bit since then. It's hard for any site to have a common opinion because everyone feels quite differently about anything. Even if you have the likes of Siskel and Ebert as your game reviewers, neither will share opinion of the rating of any one game. To me, it's impossible for a site to stay consistent with reviews even if you have just 2 reviewers. No matter the medium, I always look for reviewers I like and not a site on the whole.