emeraldrafael said:
Also, there are other ordinary guys put in adverse situations on that list. In the end, ghandi was an ordinary guy. Schlinder was an ordinary guy. Andrew beckett was an rdinary guy with the extreme misfortune of having AIDS. Just becaust Atticus challenged Race in the deep south doesnt put him above them. And being a father shouldnt mean anything either.
Atticus is an excellent example of fictitious hero because he isn't presented as one. It's not just the fact that he fights race issues in court. He is fair and good father, he rises to the occasion when his skills are needed but he isn't boastful and he acts gentlemanly and passive in the face of great ignorance and abuse. He is the fictional embodiment of some of the values of the people that you mention. Love of equality, a pacifist attitude and coming to the defense of someone even though it is going to make you reviled and possibly at risk of your own life. Wouldn't Schindler and Gandhi have apprieciated those things?
well... probably not schlinder, he was a business man at the end of it all who went through a change.
Also, atticus in the end does nothing except influence two people, his children, which by definition of a GOOD father, you should do. he doesnt take Tom's case out of the goodness of his heart, he's appointed to it and does his job because he's expected to, like you'd want anyone employed to. he doesnt do this specifically cause he wants to make a public stand against racial tensions in the south, or challenge society. he does it cause he feels its his job to do so cause no one else does. he's essentially the court appointed lawyer, the guy you get because there's no one else. he doesnt save anyone (tom still gets sentenced, and dies trying to escape), he wasnt a moral underdog (he was generally well liked in the community and while voicing an opinion of equality, it was simply due to his profession), he lost nothing (the guy that provided the main antagonist Bob ewell, is pretty much the literal embodiment of white trash. hes almost described as the guy that is above black people just because hes white. And after the trial and the death of Ewell, Atticus holds his position of general well likedness among the sensible not white trash folks of Maycomb), and the only real thing he does is teach his kids that you dont want to be like everyone else and is a progressively northern thinking man (if I remember right, he studied in the north).
Thats a sitcom, not a man you say is a hero among those like Schlinder, who fights the nazis and sells all that made him what he is to save the lives of people he generally was indifferent towards at the start. thats not a man who you say is a greater hero then Ghandi, who fought one of the most powerful nations (who when this stuff usually comes up their solution is we'll just kill them if they get to big of a pain) in the world for equal rights of people so oppressed that black people would blush and say no yeah, you've had it worse. Thats not a man you say is more of a hero because he did his job, where as Beckett was ostracized and unable to obtain a job because he had an illness that was a death sentence, yet he still wnated to fight for rights of those like him by sending a message. thats not a man you say is a better man then Robin Hood, who gave up his comfy position of wealth to reinstate the truthful king of england, fight that man that was one step removed from god, who saved a woman from a wrongful execution and helped the people who he could have just left to suffer and gained on them. thats not a man who you can tell me is better than T.E.Lawrence who fought an against one of the most powerful empires at that time (if not the), joining the roving Arab troops together as one united force, who immersed himself int he culture, who fought what was thought to be the losing battle side. And atticus holds nothing in comparison to Mr Smith, who dared to challenge not jst politics, but US politics, and changed it while fighting corruption and facing dangers of such magnitude, that Atticus' plight simply seems to be
Im not saying atticus isnt a hero. but IMHO, something you chose to question on a basis that I never gave, I dont think he should be number one. Not in that list, not in the company he stands with.
xXxJessicaxXx said:
emeraldrafael said:
and yes, i do find it poorly written. doesnt make it a bad book, just a poorly written one.
It's not poorly written, in any way. I'm sorry but that's just ridiculous. A poorly written book isn't a classic 50 years later...
I would disagree. there's a modern day book that by all rights will be a classic once the generations age that is written with every so mayn words cut out of the page. Im just not a fan of narrative storytelling like this, and I find the way that it is presented, through scout, to be poorly presented and written. its an autoiography written by a five year old. Also the writing style has little to do with it being a classic, but it the issues it tackles. Again, i didnt say its a bad book. i just find it poorly written.
And thats all I say to you on the matter.
4173 said:
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Juror #8 is a really, really terrible juror, though I suppose that doesn't affect his heroicness. He has an ideological axe to grind and he browbeats the other jurors and makes things up. He has a good cause but uses terrible methodology. And the worst danger he faces is getting punched by Juror #3. Top 50 probably, but your ranking seems high to me.
...
I didnt say I'd rank Juror number 8 number one. On that list I'd rank ghandi number one for Nonfiction, and um.... probably Beckett as number one for "fiction" (though he's inspired by a real person, I'll still count him since atticus sits in the same position).
Juror 8 is merely just a comparison to atticus in the terms "ordinary people presented in an extraordinary circumstance". Since it seems unfair to compare atticus to someone like say superman or batman or TE lawrence or George S patton. I dont know where I'd rank him on that list, cause that list looks like it needs to be broken up between real and fictional, superpowered vs ordinary, and nonhuman vs human.
But i'd agree, top fifty... maybe... top 35? But then again, Im one of those people that likes that kinda movie and enjoyed fonda's performance through it, if performance is anything judge merit.