Scott Cawthon (FNaF guy) cancelled

TheMysteriousGX

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So, blacks having worse criminal justice stats than whites is clear evidence of white supremacy, Asians having better criminal justice stats than whites is meaningless and should be ignored (like how criminal justice stats look through a gender lens should be ignored). Along with any other stat where a nonwhite group is measured to outperform whites, isn't that convenient!

And yes, I am aware that Asia is a big place, and there are some pretty stark distinctions between individual Asian ethnicities, but when we're painting broad brush racial groups for everyone else it feels strange to only care about doing a fine breakdown for the group that collectively does better than white folks in many measures.
You also do not do that split regarding African Americans, African refugees, and African immigrant, which, like "Asians" all being lumped together, also show vastly different statistics for different groups.

White supremacists tend to not like people pointing out that Black people track the same as white people with regards to most stats when you compare equivalent access to resources.
Main reason the states look worse is that Kevin gets his weed confiscated while Deshawn gets 5 years.
Wonder why that is?

Anyway, Model Minority is a myth.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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The educator's paper you're having a snit-fit about explicitly recommends giving partial credit for showing your work. You're straight up lying now.
No it's racist to not give all the marks because maths is white modernity based on the racist myth of objective truth. Who are you to deny some-one else's truth that 2+2=5?
 

Avnger

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That depends on your standards of "worked".
The fact that, despite the current amount spent on public and private charity, we still have children going to bed hungry in the US proves private charity isn't enough. Unless you somehow believe that removing the billions of public dollars would magically cause private charity to increase by an even larger number...
 
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Trunkage

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I'm sorry when have I proven my relationship with fact to be tangential at best?

Oh right I won't get an answer because you'll drop this line of discussion like so many others when called on it like you have time and time again. Make a false claim (normally about me or some-one else) then never actually address when they prove you wrong.

Also I said woke talking heads. I didn't say people with absolute power. Anita has enough influence to be considered a Woke talking head like Shaun or Hbomberguy who whatever other breadtubers get posted about.
Cool. Reading articles means you are a segregatist. I didn't know it was so easy. You know, I've read some of Charles Murray's work. That must mean I'm a segregatist. Clap fucking clap.

Can you explain to me what this has to do with you misrepresenting MLK for your own politcal gain?
 
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Agema

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And then there are things like "intentionally integrate physical movement into math class". What the hell does that mean?
It is exactly what it sounds like: see for instance this.

Funnily enough, no it hasn't just been pulled out of someone's backside. There's some garbage in this area out there (e.g. some of the claims "Brain Gym" make about neuroscience), but there's proper supporting evidence of its value as well.

Ultimately, caring about a guide like that is a waste of time. There's an offensively circular logic to it, evident in their definition of white supremacy, which includes in it the belief that "ideas of white people are superior to the ideas of people of color". Ideas being a thing without race, anyone can take on any idea. In a majority white society, if every teacher took on all of these suggestions, they would then be the ideas of white people, and indoctrinating non-white children with them would become white supremacy.
That argument is sophistry: clearly ideas come from places; for a majority white society to take and implement ideas and examples from non-white communities does not automatically make those ideas "white". There are forms of cultural relevance: if black people's interest in country and western is much lower than their interest in R&B, if we want to set a problem around a real-life situation (because such context can help provide relevance, and thus learner engagement), R&B may be better choice than country and western for a majority black class. Or even better, find out what interests are of kids in the class (irrespective of race, class, gender, etc.) and use them rather than attempt to predict.

Again, principles of how to do this are embedded in that document and unsurprisingly are defensible according to pedagogic research.

Critical theories have a bad habit (the purpose) of seeing all things as done for the benefit of those in power. In CRT, if a practice hurts black people, it's explicitly to help white people, but also if a practice seeks to help black people, it's also explicitly to help white people. The only way to be anti-racist is to oppose society as a whole, hence an apparently ethnocentric model of mathematics requires teaching how to "challenge the ways that math is used to uphold capitalist views", which you can do by "eliminating references to money" in word problems.
Specious waffle.

I know you never want to be on the side of the craaaazy right-wingers, but "solve racism by not teaching children how to use money in math class" is not a well-established pedagogic concept.
I'm happy to be on the side of crazy right-wingers where they have a good point. Unfortunately, as so often is the case, they are attacking things they do not understand. There is a tendency of conservatives to instinctively think "what worked for me can work for kids today" and view innovation as trendy and superficial mumbo-jumbo: it is after all the basis of conservative ideology and mindset.

I can forgive you and Hawki and millions more not knowing anything about pedagogy, as you are not teachers and were probably educated many years ago under systems and teachers that were plenty of years behind the cutting edge even at the time. McWhorter, however, appears to be in higher education. He reasonably could and should be aware, and instead he's written what seems to me to be a somewhat ignorant or dishonest criticism. But then I guess he doesn't need to try harder. I am not his intended audience, you are.
 
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Trunkage

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Specious waffle.
He's saying that the only valid society is the one that tstorm has determined as valid and there isn't any possible other variation. I.e. what conservativeness is generally built on.

Just wanted to point it out, because I'm pretty sure some people how made a comment here on how CRT or wokeness or whatever is making their own vision of society the valid one. Unfortunately, if that's the mindset you come from, everyone else MUST be doing the same thing for the same reasons.

EDIT: Just on maths teaching in particular, I remember a while ago that they had to try and change the way the teach math because there were heaps of people who could do their times tables but a large portion of them didn't understand how to multiply. Don't think it helps in this case but just an interesting fact
 
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Thaluikhain

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EDIT: Just on maths teaching in particular, I remember a while ago that they had to try and change the way the teach math because there were heaps of people who could do their times tables but a large portion of them didn't understand how to multiply. Don't think it helps in this case but just an interesting fact
Dunno if it's still the case, but way back when I was in school, you'd do badly at tests if you just put the correct answers in, rather than showing the working out. I'd end up solving the problem, but spend more time having to muck about with it afterwards, which did not help me take the subject seriously.
 

Agema

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Dunno if it's still the case, but way back when I was in school, you'd do badly at tests if you just put the correct answers in, rather than showing the working out. I'd end up solving the problem, but spend more time having to muck about with it afterwards, which did not help me take the subject seriously.
Offhand, strikes me that showing the working achieves several important functions:
1) Allowing students to get partial credit for doing some things right even if the final product was wrong
2) Facilitating feedback to the students so they can see what they did wrong
3) Facilitating feedback to the teacher to show what the students are doing wrong, with the dual function of both helping those students do better, but also to allow reflection on one's own teaching in case it could be improved.

Potentially also in some circumstances:
4) Making cheating harder. It's easy for a student to tell another an answer (e.g. "18"), much harder to tell them how that answer was achieved.
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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There is a tendency of conservatives to instinctively think "what worked for me can work for kids today" and view innovation as trendy and superficial mumbo-jumbo: it is after all the basis of conservative ideology and mindset.
Underneath that seems to be a knee-jerk, almost instinctive backlash to anyone who seems to be presenting themselves as "special" in a way they don't like. It brings forth a reaction of "you think you're better than me?!" and a desire to smash that person down.
 
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tstorm823

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That argument is sophistry: clearly ideas come from places; for a majority white society to take and implement ideas and examples from non-white communities does not automatically make those ideas "white".
What percentage of elementary mathematics education would you estimate comes from white places? The numbers we write and the way we write them worked their way through India, Arabia, and Northern Africa before Europeans touched them. I don't know if there is a math that you can reasonably attribute to white people until modern calculus. And yet, here were are discussing a document on how to make math less white. They obviously don't attribute ideas to their source, and are instead attributing all mainstream society to "whiteness".

You may think my argument is sophistry, but you're just seeing the lies from the source material carrying through and blaming me for them.
The fact that, despite the current amount spent on public and private charity, we still have children going to bed hungry in the US proves private charity isn't enough. Unless you somehow believe that removing the billions of public dollars would magically cause private charity to increase by an even larger number...
The number of dollars spent on charity is irrelevant to children going to bed hungry. There is enough food to feed all those children, there is enough money to buy it for them. The issues of hunger in America are not a resource issue, they're issues like not knowing which children are hungry, not having a way to get them the food, not knowing what happens if you try and feed the children of negligent parents, not having the desire to separate families to feed the kids... money does not solve all problems.
 
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Seanchaidh

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There is enough food to feed all those children, there is enough money to buy it for them.
Yes.

The issues of hunger in America are not a resource issue,
Yes.

they're issues like not knowing which children are hungry,
This is only a problem because of specific choices that have been made about how to manage our economy.

not having a way to get them the food,
Grocery stores.

not knowing what happens if you try and feed the children of negligent parents,
Sounds like a way to shift blame to struggling parents and pretend that hunger is just a matter of parental choice.

not having the desire to separate families to feed the kids... money does not solve all problems.
Resources can be provided.

In an economic system with markets, money can be used to facilitate that provision. Indeed, just like the existences of currency and taxes have been used throughout history to organize the feeding of armies (soldiers are paid in coins which then must be returned to the government by producers of goods and services as tax, motivating the production of goods and services and their distribution to soldiers), they can also be utilized to facilitate the feeding of children.
 

Agema

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What percentage of elementary mathematics education would you estimate comes from white places? The numbers we write and the way we write them worked their way through India, Arabia, and Northern Africa before Europeans touched them. I don't know if there is a math that you can reasonably attribute to white people until modern calculus. And yet, here were are discussing a document on how to make math less white. They obviously don't attribute ideas to their source, and are instead attributing all mainstream society to "whiteness".
Who invented or discovered a mathematical concept 1000 years is nothing like as important as how that concept is expressed and explained to a classroom in the here and now. A lot of that job of expressing and explaining is not the mathematical concept itself.

To give a simple idea of this, imagine teaching mathematics in Romanian to a bunch of German speakers: it doesn't matter how good the mathematical explanations might be, the educational experience for the students would be extraordinarily poor.
 

tstorm823

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Who invented or discovered a mathematical concept 1000 years is nothing like as important as how that concept is expressed and explained to a classroom in the here and now. A lot of that job of expressing and explaining is not the mathematical concept itself.

To give a simple idea of this, imagine teaching mathematics in Romanian to a bunch of German speakers: it doesn't matter how good the mathematical explanations might be, the educational experience for the students would be extraordinarily poor.
I don't think I've ever seen someone spin their argument 180 degrees faster than this. How did you go from "ideas come from somewhere, white people using them doesn't make the idea white" to "who invented a concept isn't nearly as important as how it's expressed here and now" that fast? I'm not saying those are mutually exclusive, but it's like watching a swimmer reach a wall, do a kick flip, and start swimming completely the opposite direction.

I think you're closer to correct this direction, but if the point here is "how you express things matters", that doesn't justify defending that guide. People who wrote that understand that how you express something matters. People who oppose it also understand that. Probably most people entirely indifferent understand that. "Well yes, they have a point that expressing things in certain ways makes a difference in educational outcomes for people from different backgrounds", sure, but they make concrete recommendations for how to express things that involve a lot of stupid crap. You gave your most flippant response to the part where I point to them advocating against teaching money to fight capitalism. Would you care to acknowledge some of that?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Cool. Reading articles means you are a segregatist. I didn't know it was so easy. You know, I've read some of Charles Murray's work. That must mean I'm a segregatist. Clap fucking clap.
No but coming in like Anita did to counter the claims being made rather suggests a specific position and wanting people to doubt said research saying it didn't improve learning.
Can you explain to me what this has to do with you misrepresenting MLK for your own politcal gain?
I will when you can explain how exactly I'm misrepresenting Doctor King's ultimate ideal situation he wanted to see reached.
 

Seanchaidh

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How did you go from "ideas come from somewhere, white people using them doesn't make the idea white" to "who invented a concept isn't nearly as important as how it's expressed here and now" that fast? I'm not saying those are mutually exclusive, but it's like watching a swimmer reach a wall, do a kick flip, and start swimming completely the opposite direction.
How did it happen? They were each the correct responses to the two different things you said. It isn't exactly brain surgery.
 

tstorm823

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How did it happen? They were each the correct responses to the two different things you said. It isn't exactly brain surgery.
If he had said " ur wrong cuz of fokjnsdfffnokjsdflllllll" to me, you'd personally consider that a correct response.