Serious question for feminist critique of video games

[Guitarmasterx7]

Anita doesn't have the experience or know how necessary to make a game. There's a lot more to game design and development than "I want to make a game with this in it." And 750k is a pretty damn low budget for a game.

 

[Anja Bech]

[snip]

I love you for this video. He makes some really solid points without focusing too much on the emotional side of the arguments. A tiny voice of reason.

 

[Galletea]

Because it would be a shit game.
You know, because her field is moaning about stuff, not making games. Not just because I don't like her. To right all the wrongs she sees it would have to be a pretty bug title, so we're talking millions of dollars, not thousands, and a big team of people, and a publisher willing to take a risk, which is unlikely.

 

[AntiChrist]

If the market wants it to happen it will happen. Developers will adjust if they feel its in their best interest as a company. Video games are not some political platform for you to get your message across. Does not mean you can't have in a message in games but its not their primary purpose. Trying to strong arm developers into making games they way you want them made will ultimately stifle creativity. I would rather see a better representation of women happen naturally (which it will) then developers shoehorning in characters just to shut people up. This is my main reason for generally disliking and not agreeing with the social justice warriors whining and complaining. When you try to force people to subscribe to your world view you get resistance every time. Instead just present your opinion and hope people agree with you. If they don't tough shit.

But isn't that excactly what Sarkeesian and people like her are doing? Presenting an opinion?

Also, if a demand for better representation of women - as you put it - is going to naturally develop over time, then aren't the outcries from today's "social justice warriors" a naturally occurring event as well? Aren't they just the first of many to voice their displeasure with the type of games supplied in this day and age? Yet somehow they are messing with the natural way of things...?

 

[Seydaman]

...No.

Honestly, that argument is silly. Don't like your government? Why not go overthrow it and make a new government? I mean, honestly, you have no right to criticize your government if you're not actively trying to overthrow and change it.

You see the problem?

Captcha: Shitty advertisement.

 

[Brainpaint]

I don't think that's a bad idea TBH. I don't liek

That's such a cop-out argument, don't you think?

"If you don't like 'CTRL ALT DEL', why don't you make your own webcomic!!!? You can't write or draw? Too bad, that's the only option!"
"If you don't like 'Call of Duty', why don't you make your own AAA Game!?!?! You don't have millions of dollars and a team of 100 to create a AAA game? Too bad, that's the only option!"
"If you don't like 'Sexy Co-Eds 5', why don't you make your own po....actually, never mind on that one, that's not a bad idea..."

Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea. Saying "If you don't like what someone is doing, do it yourself" is great sounding advice but 100% impractical and kind of a silly thing to say.

Doesn't mean you can't hire the people to do it for you. She's already started one kickstarter campaign.

Problem is, I HATE radical feminism!

 

[TekMoney]

Problem is, I HATE radical feminism!

You don't know what radical feminism is. Anita Sarkeesian is extremely far off from it.

 

[Vegosiux]

question to all people fighting against better female representation in games

Who's fighting against that? I mean, in this thread, specifically - seeing as without such people here, the question is kind of out of place.

I'm curious... Is that something Sarkeesian has actually done? I'm asking, not because I think you're a liar, but because I honestly don't know - I haven't paid that much attention to her stuff.

That was actually a stealth jab at more than just Sarkeesian herself. Who does seem to be quite content to just talk, while still considering herself as some kind of herald of change, and I wager you my beloved top hat that if when there is a change in the market, she's going to invoke post hoc ergo propter hoc like there's no tomorrow.[footnote]This is the opinion I have of her from what I know of her. My information there is limited so naturally, I might be wrong and my top hat will be up for grabs.[/footnote]

But I meant anyone who acts that way.

 

[Charli]

Food critics do not require the title of chef.

Why start here?

I myself am an aspiring novice 'game designer', and also possess the necessary assets of a lady-type person. However I would never dream of decrying those who support my rights and beliefs on the basis of 'WELL YOU DON'T DO WHAT I DO SO WHY DO YOU GET TO SAY ANYTHING OR HAVE AN OPINION! HMPHH'. That's tumblr justice warrior speak. Get that shit out of here.

Face it, she makes you uncomfortable because she's rocking your tiny little boat world a bit by implying that something you enjoy might be a bit over catered to and unintentionally marginalizing another demographic and making them feel unwelcome in a place many of them have come to enjoy aspects of.

That's really ALL that's being said by her when you boil it down to it's bare-bones. And to me, it's obvious. But I'm not a loud feminist. I'm a do-er. I don't really like words, I like action, however my contributions take time. ALOT of time, and focus, and energy, and might not even work, but if I can help and inspire other women to work towards what I do with even a mediocre bit of success then I'll live a happy person. So I continue.

But in the mean time I'm happy for a few of the louder ones to try and continue to get their points across, even if I disagree with the method, and aggressive angle. It does still hold weight. I still am held back in certain parts of the industry because of my sex, and while I can't do much from my position without jeopardizing my shaky standing and relationships with those I (still) respect and work with, those from the outside with less at stake can aid in leveling out certain things that need to be leveled. Everyone has their strengths, I guess this is hers and others.

And I don't even necessarily see eye to eye with her on a GREAT MANY things, but I can appreciate her sentiment, and I can, in my more depressing displays of (usually unintentional) sexist arrows to my face, empathize with her will to outline why some of video games needs a bit of ...diversifying.

...I mean it's happening, especially in the indie scene, more and more. Slowly, but surely, things will begin to change for the better in this regard, but you've got to realize that the changes I and a few of my other girls hope to put into effect are years in the making. And have got to be good. They have to be nothing short of excelling, pushing limits. Or the gentlemens club scoffs once more and adds it to the pile of bullshit evidence that women aren't welcome in their clubhouse.

But here's a radical thought, she's one person, who got alot of attention. If you don't feel she's due such attention then stop giving it to her. It's talk. That's all these people do. If you're really so bothered by it, then it means it got to you on some level. And maybe you should sit down and have a long hard think about WHY that is really.
Not on a 'oh I didn't like that so I am mad, grrr' think about WHY it made you mad. Why are you feeling so annoyed. And then articulate it better.

 

[wulf3n]

Don't like your government? Why not go overthrow it and make a new government? I mean, honestly, you have no right to criticize your government if you're not actively trying to overthrow and change it.

It has worked before. England and America wouldn't exist as we know them today if they didn't overthrow their corrupt governments.

I'm sure there are other example as well.

 

[briankoontz]

I have been wondering the last few years why feminists like Sarkeesian complain that much about womens roles in video games. If she is so much against it and know so many other people are also against the way women are portrayed in video games, why doesnt she just become a video game designer herself and rake in the money that other developers apparantly arent interested in?

I mean, if you really want to change something, why not change it instead of just complaining about it and telling others to fix it for you? Didnt she want agency taken from men and given to women? Why doesnt she act on her options instead then? She got more money from her kickstarter than many indie devs have to spend on their games she she definatly has the means even if she cant code.

If she truly belives what she says, she must be convinced that people will buy any product with women depicted like she thinks they should be and therefore, she should be looking at millions of game sales.

Sure, anita is not "all feminists" but I cant imagine that not a single of the people who complain about the portrayal of women in video games have the means to make their own line of games where women are portrayed the way they think women should be portrayed.

That's a very old and very tired argument that could use some death. It's the only time that argument is ever used in any line of thought.

Lots of artists don't like critics, but the response of critics to them is never "if you don't like criticism, become a critic yourself and change it!".

Being a critic requires a certain set of skills and way of thinking that is unrelated to the production of art. It makes absolutely no sense to require that every critic become an artist - if they wanted to be an artist they would be an artist. They are a critic because that's what they want to be.

There is *some* crossover between criticism of art and the production of art, but there's nothing that suggests that one has to be the other.

But of course this isn't a serious proposal in the first place. It's just an attempt by someone who doesn't like Anita Sarkeesian to "help" her. She's had plenty of "help" over the months, which has amounted to absolutely nothing.

 

[Branovices]

It's a fair point, because if she did design a game, and it sold a lot based on her followers and fans, it could be enough for the rest of the industry to take notice and make some changes. Things like these start small. Would you have thought that a single person, a girl named Rosa Parks would have been able to bring about the changes she did just by being a ***** and not giving up her seat? You need more than complaining to fix issues, you need someone to take a stand. She's got more of a foot than most people do to take that stand, and she still hasn't.

Yeah, Rosa Parks was one person... used as an example by a massive, organized, international civil rights movement. Hundreds of activists had already been arrested by the time she came into the spotlight. It's not a relevant example for a few reasons, not the least of which being you probably shouldn't compare the civil rights movement to making a video game.

Also, Rosa Parks wasn't being a "*****." She was following the law as it was written even in the segregated south. She was already sitting in the "blacks only" section. The bus driver demanded she get up for white passengers to take her seat, even though it was in the "blacks only" section in the back of the bus. Part of the reason she was used by the civil rights movement was to show the hypocrisy of the supposed "separate but equal" system, and also because she had an absolutely spotless record.

 

[AntiChrist]

question to all people fighting against better female representation in games

Who's fighting against that? I mean, in this thread, specifically - seeing as without such people here, the question is kind of out of place.

I'm curious... Is that something Sarkeesian has actually done? I'm asking, not because I think you're a liar, but because I honestly don't know - I haven't paid that much attention to her stuff.

That was actually a stealth jab at more than just Sarkeesian herself. Who does seem to be quite content to just talk, while still considering herself as some kind of herald of change, and I wager you my beloved top hat that if when there is a change in the market, she's going to invoke post hoc ergo propter hoc like there's no tomorrow.

Thanks for the clarification. I hope you're wrong so I can get my hands on that top hat of yours...

 

[Vegosiux]

Problem is, I HATE radical feminism!

Pussy Riot are radical feminists. Sarkisian adapts academic feminist theory and applies it to media.

In a very not-academic way (lax research methods, not crediting her sources, making some stretchy leaps of logic...). She's not an academic, or rather she doesn't act it.

But you're right on that she's not a "radical feminist"[footnote]Or a tubular one for that matter.[/footnote], or a "femnazi", from a perspective line, Sarkeesian is closer to me than Dworkin for example. She just really, really needs to get her shit together and apply some proper methodology and stop acting in that "X therefore I'm right" way.

Actually that's not entirely fair to her, her second TvW video was better than the first, and the third one was better than the second, so she does seem to at least consider criticism, even if she doesn't seem to like to hear it. Now if only she'd actually do something other than sit on those 160k she got off kickstarter.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

All right, I'm all for knocking Anita Sarkeesian, who definitely seems to fall under the "confirmation bias" theory when it comes to judging series as being sexist. That said, not everyone who has a problem with something to be able to fix it so directly. That's like saying "If you have a problem with your state not allowing gay marriage, why don't you run for State Congress?" Sometimes, the best method is to spread awareness, which is exactly what Sarkeesian is doing. A single push is what gets the ball rolling, after all.

 

[Vegosiux]

She already gets death and rape threats, may as well piss off as many people as possible.

"Lol ***** should die/get raped" isn't a death threat. Most of those "threats" are just immature people acting tough on the internet, without an actual serious intent to cause harm to her sexual integrity or person. Yes I realize a few nutcases might be serious about it, but I dare say an overwhelming majority of them are just "tough guys" that would faint the moment they wanted to say hello to a woman, much less touch her.

Do not think for a moment that I'm being an apologist here, it's still behavior that should not be tolerated, but what I want to do with those people is tell them to go to their room or I'll be telling their mother; not press criminal charges >.>