Have you seen Japanese living quarters? There's a very obvious reason staring you in the face as to why for a very long time now all consoles are selling poorly in Japan compared to anything portable.Karadalis said:
Shigeru Miyamoto Says His Rivals Are Boring, Samey
- Thread starter Steven Bogos
- Start date
Oh yes... Yes, yes, yes indeed.Neronium said:
OT: Yes he's right, the competition is samey. And I know it's a juvenile response, but it takes one to know one. Sorry Nintendo, but you haven't exactly been stiring the pot of originality yourself.
As for cinematic/story games... You know, there is room for everybody. We have this thing called 'genres' after all.
Stop making assumptions about people, it rarely ends well. I already have a Nintendo handheld. A 3DS XL. I have put more then 300 hours into Fire Emblem Awakening. I also have pokemon X and Y. The 3DS is my first DS, but before that i owned a gameboy, gameboy colour and gba. My first ever console was the NES. After that, i skipped to the N64, then i moved to Microsoft for the Xbox. Moved onto the 360 and now have converted to PC gaming.Rozalia1 said:
I do not now, and never really have, give a shit about "teams". I despise platform wars and am in it for the games.
Which is why i hate exclusives. I want to play all the games. But as i have yet to find a sufficient revenue source, i am forced each generation to prioritize and miss out on a lot of games i want. Rent and bills and groceries are somewhat important.
Thanks for the feedback, always looking to improve my writing. I will give you that it does not quite equate to "their games are boring" and have thus adjusted the headline. However, I do think that the "samey" quote is fair, as "the same games appear on every system" suggests that games for other systems in general have become "samey".Shamanic Rhythm said:
Sure he makes like 17 different games, but he keeps making the same 17, over and over... no one is more "samey".
It would really be too easy to jump on a hate wagon, and criticize Miyamoto's stunning lack of self awareness. But, I respect the hell out of the man, so I won't do that. He is, however, wrong on all accounts.
Multi-platform titles are a GOOD thing. It's a crime that people miss out on Persona, The Last of Us, Bloodborn, Valkyria Chronicles, and other titles because of exclusivity deals.
I understand that his design philosophy is inherently opposed to strong narrative games, but I'm going to be frank, games are growing up. They're becoming art. And sometimes a person wants to strive for something more. Sometimes they want to tell a story, or explore an idea, or make people think, or make people cry. And those are noble endeavors. Not everything can be about jumping on platforms. Those kinds of games will always have their place, but games are growing up and becoming more thematically complex.
I understand that there are different design philosophies, and many people either fall into the narrative or mechanics camp. He falls into mechanics, and I fall into narrative. Frankly, I find non-narrative titles boring. Then there are games like Dark Souls, which manages to marry the two.
Multi-platform titles are a GOOD thing. It's a crime that people miss out on Persona, The Last of Us, Bloodborn, Valkyria Chronicles, and other titles because of exclusivity deals.
I understand that his design philosophy is inherently opposed to strong narrative games, but I'm going to be frank, games are growing up. They're becoming art. And sometimes a person wants to strive for something more. Sometimes they want to tell a story, or explore an idea, or make people think, or make people cry. And those are noble endeavors. Not everything can be about jumping on platforms. Those kinds of games will always have their place, but games are growing up and becoming more thematically complex.
I understand that there are different design philosophies, and many people either fall into the narrative or mechanics camp. He falls into mechanics, and I fall into narrative. Frankly, I find non-narrative titles boring. Then there are games like Dark Souls, which manages to marry the two.
A lot of people are proving that they're missing his point in their statements, with the recycling IP's line.
Imagine a game like portal, but the main character is Link. Does that mean that the game is a Zelda game? Would we condemn it to the "IP remake" category? Imagine Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, except the main character doesn't wear Link-clothes (an easy feat considering on the second WW playthrough, this is possible). The tone of the games is remarkably different. True again with a Link Between Worlds. Mario Galaxy and Mario Sunshine are not the same game, even if they involve a plumber gathering stars.
That's his point. Games are getting dangerously cinematic-centric. It would be a simple change in any game to slap Nintendo shit into any game. Any game could be a Nintendo IP instantly. Case in point: Hyrule warriors. Imagine the halo armor being the Metroid armor. It would still be a halo game.
I haven't played a lot of games on some systems. Yet having played a fair few Nintendo games, I'll say they mostly haven't bored me. I do know, though, that I confuse a lot of non-Nintendo games when I see them in the gaming news, and they all seem the same to me after a while through observation. In argument, when I discuss Nintendo games with people, I am confident that most (not all) of the ones I bring up as good are also one-of-a-kind.
Imagine a game like portal, but the main character is Link. Does that mean that the game is a Zelda game? Would we condemn it to the "IP remake" category? Imagine Wind Waker and Twilight Princess, except the main character doesn't wear Link-clothes (an easy feat considering on the second WW playthrough, this is possible). The tone of the games is remarkably different. True again with a Link Between Worlds. Mario Galaxy and Mario Sunshine are not the same game, even if they involve a plumber gathering stars.
That's his point. Games are getting dangerously cinematic-centric. It would be a simple change in any game to slap Nintendo shit into any game. Any game could be a Nintendo IP instantly. Case in point: Hyrule warriors. Imagine the halo armor being the Metroid armor. It would still be a halo game.
I haven't played a lot of games on some systems. Yet having played a fair few Nintendo games, I'll say they mostly haven't bored me. I do know, though, that I confuse a lot of non-Nintendo games when I see them in the gaming news, and they all seem the same to me after a while through observation. In argument, when I discuss Nintendo games with people, I am confident that most (not all) of the ones I bring up as good are also one-of-a-kind.
Wait, is he calling out the lack of diversity in the games not made by Nintendo or is he calling out the practice of releasing games on multiple platforms?
If its the former, he can fuck off since the creative output of Nintendo has basically spent the last decade or so remaking the same dozen or so games with progressively more bells and whistles.
If its the latter, he can fuck off since platform exclusives need to go extinct. If you want people to buy your console, then make a good console first. Basically holding your games hostage might sway some people, but theese days there just arent any true system selling games anymore.
If its the former, he can fuck off since the creative output of Nintendo has basically spent the last decade or so remaking the same dozen or so games with progressively more bells and whistles.
If its the latter, he can fuck off since platform exclusives need to go extinct. If you want people to buy your console, then make a good console first. Basically holding your games hostage might sway some people, but theese days there just arent any true system selling games anymore.
Hoo-boy, I can't wait to see all the people pile in here and completely misunderstand what he was saying, or have the idiotic idea that "All games based on the same IP=Same"
You see, normally at this point I'd ask you if you've ever played a Zelda game. But you'd lie and say yes. And I'd know you were lying, because to describe Nintendo franchises as the same games with progressively more bells and whistles (especially in the presence of other franchises) already gives you away. Did you not read a single post in this thread before commenting? Or are you trolling?gigastar said:
EDIT: Nevermind. I answered my own question.
Well, I don't mean to offend, but your post is actually quite offensive.Rozalia1 said:
So, let's go over and get a 3DS so we can- Wait, those things can be bricked remotely. Whether the reasons are legit or not, that can go to hell.
Right, so what about an X-Bo- *RROD'd* Okay, an X-Box 360, th- *RROD'd* God, they pack up quickly, don't they? And they're copies of the pioneered technology of the Playstation, which Nintendo ran out on back at the collaboration stage, at any rate.
Oh, I know. I'll get an X-Bone!
*Guffaws*
Nope, couldn't say that with a straight face. Now, I could try a Wii or a WiiU, but will I really get my money's worth? Thinking no.
Let's not go telling other people's opinions are 'twaddle'. It's market research. What works best for me? Answer given. Now, does that excuse others - such as Microsoft, say - from the act of luring people away from multi-system releases just so they could either sit on it or release it on one platform? No. It might be just a business move, but it's a shitty one and it doesn't always work. Because people do not always flock to another system for that one game or even a few of those games when they have major system dedication to something already and they're not made of money.
So, I'm a more fortunate person in life and have Sony and Steam and non-Steam PC games to a great degree. Nice stuff. X-Box and Nintendo? Yeesh, putting even aside the gripes I have already- Here wait, lemme put that in a Montgomery Scott voice:
"Captain, we haven't got tha' funds ta' DO it!"
"Scotty, you're my treasurer as well as my chief engineer, for some reason. There has GOT to be a way to get these games."
"I cannae change the laws of economics...!"
So, in future, don't gimme this 'Lol buy the system' stuff. There's reasons, man, reasons that won't change because some of these people are assholes.
I share your sentiment. Exclusives don't make poor hardware suck less, it makes it mandatory. Miyamoto, like his company, still thinks that it's the 90s and Nintendo is still a synonym for video games. It's just a matter of time before they go the way of Sega. Unless they wise up and release a mobile Pokemon game - that thing will make them a video game superpower.FalloutJack said:
EDIT: Miyamoto's statement and a photo of him with Mario merchandise make the statement extremely ironic.
Converted?AntiChri5 said:
Makes it sound all very cultish. So what does that mean exactly? From the looks of it you've always been a one platform guy, though admittedly due to monetary reasons. My condolences, good luck in your future endeavours.
Its Nintendo, you're missing out simple as. Wii U/3DS isn't that expensive either.FalloutJack said:
Why bother posting anything if youre just going to pre-emptively ignore any counter argument i present?144 said:
And i have played Wind Waker and Twilight Princess. I didnt enjoy either of them, therefore as far as youre concerned i am some retarded late-90's kid who couldnt comprehend some unseen quality that youre certain theese games have.
But if you took that for bait, then that speaks volumes on your dispositon when it comes to all things Nintendo.
"What I strive for is to make the person playing the game the director"
This is why I like Miyamoto. He's not above criticizing himself (region locking and countless rehashed Mario games with "New" as the title for instance) but at least he's not all about the business side of things.
*shrug*
I hope he keeps putting out new IPs as time goes on.
This is why I like Miyamoto. He's not above criticizing himself (region locking and countless rehashed Mario games with "New" as the title for instance) but at least he's not all about the business side of things.
*shrug*
I hope he keeps putting out new IPs as time goes on.
I mean he isn't wrong, companies play the safe money card and pump out their couple of franchises until they can milk it no more. But at the same time this is the exact same shit he has been doing since the start of his career, so a kettle calling the pot black.
And I know some Nintendo fan will come swinging at me, just so you know every FIFA fan also thinks that franchise is the most innovative shit on the planet.
And I know some Nintendo fan will come swinging at me, just so you know every FIFA fan also thinks that franchise is the most innovative shit on the planet.
Final Fantasy hasn't been on Nintendo consoles since the SNES... (apart from a few unpopular spin offs on the wii and gamecube).Karadalis said:
Pokemon is played competitively, by millions of people world-wide, they can't change the gameplay in a drastic way, that's like criticizing CoD for still being a shooter, and pokemon has changed A LOT more than people think, not just graphically with X and Y but there have been big changes added every generation. The first and second gens (red/blue and gold/silver) are almost nothing like the current gen. Breeding, IVs, EVs, items, natures, abilities, mega-evolutions etc etc are all a huge part of the game and almost all of them were added over time in different generations. Single battles, double battles, triple battles, rotation battles etc etc, again, added progressively over several generations. New pokemon types were added so the "end-game" strategies have changed wildly in the last few generations (just go and have a look at smogon and see how a pokemon that's now viable in competitive used to fair a generation or 2 ago).
Nintendo are always criticized for releasing "the same mario game, the same zelda game, the same xxx game" but it's almost as if you completely ignore all the games that don't fit into those categories. Of course Nintendo always release a Mario kart, Super Smash Bros, etc.. can you imagine the uproar if they DIDN'T release these games? How do you think the Wii U would have fared if there was no new mario kart for it (Wii U console sales increased 200% with the release of MK8), BUT, in addition to their regular games they do consistently release new, original games.
You say the same Mario jump and run game but you don't mention Super mario sunshine (GCN), luigi's mansion(GCN, 3DS), Upcoming Toad's treasure tracker (Wii U), Yoshi story (N64), Paper mario (N64, GCN, Wii, 3DS), The slew of Mario RPGs, Upcoming Mario Maker... In every generation there are a combination of 2D platformers, 3D platformers, 3D adventure, RPGs..
I would also say that the recent Hyrule Warriors is anything but "the same zelda game" since it is actually a dynasty warriors game. Then you've got new IPs that were created and added over time with unique ideas and gameplay, like Pikmin, wonderful 101.
The upcoming Kirby's rainbow curse and Yoshi's wooly world have completely different gameplay to anything in their series.
Splatoon is the most unique co-op shooter announced for this generation. period.
Bayonetta 2 was funded by Nintendo, which is a pretty unique spectacle fighter that no other company wanted anything to do with (and it's a massive hit).
The Zelda series is an action RPG series, it has changed more each iteration than most other RPG series, I always love to see Dragon age skip all criticism for basically being the same game but Zelda is called the same game despite how different each one is... go and play Ocarina of time, then windwaker, and then skyward sword and tell me they are the same game.
Nothing new and unique is coming out of western developers at the moment (mostly, Sunset overdrive may be the exception), for the last few months the biggest releases at work have been: Another CoD, another Assassin's Creed, another Farcry, the same GTA, another Fifa, another forza... and I don't feel I'm contradicting myself by saying "another" because unlike Nintendo "same" releases, almost all of those games have no distinguishing features from their last iteration. ACU is the same game as last time but with 5000 more useless NPCs and 4 player coop, Farcry 4 is almost a carbon copy of Farcry 3 right down to trying to recapture the baddie from the last one, CoD advanced modern black ops warfare 7 might as well be a DLC code for jetpacks etc etc; though miyamoto's criticism of the industry is mostly correct, he has definitely ignored just how unique Sony exclusives are, since that's where all the JRPG/Japanese localisations are releasing which are pretty close to the most unique and unboring titles out there (PS3 and PSV specifically).
Also, friendly reminder that the Wii U outsold the PS4 in Japan for several months, the Wii U sales grew 200% worldwide in October and are looking to grow even more with SSB, Nintendo has sold more Wii U consoles than Microsoft has sold Xbox One's (by more than a million consoles), there are more games running at 1080p/60fps on the Wii U than both the Xbone and PS4 combined (even if you double up the the same game for each console).
TL;DR The Wii U is absolutely fine, releasing some of the same titles (like Mario Kart and Super Smash Bros.) is also fine (imagine the uproar if they didn't) and it's not like they are yearly released and look identical to their previous entry, there was some 6 years between the last 2 Mario Karts, and an even bigger gap between SSBs. Saying Nintendo only release the same Mario or Zelda game is going out of your way to ignore every single unique/radically different game/s using that IP that are released every generation (Sunshine, Luigi's mansion, toad's treasure tracker, Hyrule warriors, Kirby's rainbow curse, Yoshi's woolly world), and also ignoring how many of their now regular IP entries weren't there from the start and were originally created by Nintendo (Yoshi, Pikmin, Kirby etc etc).
Pro-tip: I own every console, I enjoy every console in one way or another, I am not anybody's fanboy, as someone who works in the industry and a lover of all games and platforms, I am defending the fact that Nintendo gets shit on for things that aren't any different from things that are done much worse by other companies; more people complain about Nintendo releasing the "same mario game" than they do about CoD/BF/Fifa/Forza/AC LITERALLY being the same game (and released much more frequently than any Nintendo regular entry). Like, a yearly samey shooter is absolutely fine, but 2 Mario Karts in 7 years is blasphemy.
To those people crying about console exclusives. You do know that's the only thing that differentiates the consoles for real at the end of the day and doesn't make the industry become an outright monopoly, right? I mean, the moment we go that route, consoles can die in a bonfier and we can all just use gaming rigs, because if the console market still exists, and everybody gets the same games, well, one will obviously be top dog because at the end of the day, one will have the better online service/specs, and the rest doesn't matter, kind of kills the industry with a single stroke.
Since I only have a 3DS and my PC to my name, a world where everything is in PC, period, would be wonderful for me and maybe it's the next natural step, but if you people like the whole "game console thing" that single choice pretty much warrants the end of the concept of a console since why the hell would any company bother to develop one if there is nothing to differentiate it outside of raw power and online service?
Since I only have a 3DS and my PC to my name, a world where everything is in PC, period, would be wonderful for me and maybe it's the next natural step, but if you people like the whole "game console thing" that single choice pretty much warrants the end of the concept of a console since why the hell would any company bother to develop one if there is nothing to differentiate it outside of raw power and online service?
So myamoto has officially retired from making games and has taken up professional trolling, an interesting new career choice for someone of his age. I wish him to be as much of a pioneer and visionary in his new enterprise as he was in his videogame career. The world needs more men like you myamoto, men who just grin all the time and tell others that they suck.